SMT:N Demifiend/Hitoshura

[Yoshiken]

Continuation of conversation from Games Playing topic.

Yeah, I was referring to Masakados there, pretty much (mass stat boost+skillset+wall everything). And yeah, the Gravestone Time Attack challenge. The movepool... is impressive, but not stellar. (Pierce is a nasty touch, though.)

Of ranked people, he... probably charge-OHKOs Zophar, since apparently Fate Storm (according to the topic? I don't even remember seeing it in-game above 50% HP, so it'd make sense) is HP-triggered, Zophar can't stop him from pulling it off. Yuna wins with Aeons no prob, without it gets dicier (depends on what element you consider her Holy as, as well as if you see him as blocking FF Holy element. This has come up before, Yuna vs. Jenna Angel. I'll leave off there lest I reincarnate the argument). Aside from those two... depending on how you view SMT:N speed, the non-elemental nukemages (Johnny, Ryu2) give him fits. At worst he's a spoilable High Godlike, though, and I'd just move not to rank him on grounds of being pretty much a nightmare.

Ah, makes sense. Still, he gets a lot of null/drain skills without Masakados and can still have good damage and other Megido spells, just not Megidolaon.
EDIT: Actually, he can't, by my logic! If end-game is Lv 60, then he doesn't even come close. Megido is Lv 75 and the rest just go up from there.

For Yuna, it might depend on the turn order and personal judgements. It's hard to judge Demifiend's speed by any system other than Nocturne's, so I guess that's the only feasible way to judge things.
If Demifiend gets first turn, then it depends on whether or not Yuna gets instant-death immunity from armours. Yuna's Evasion could prove a problem here...
If Expel/Death is deemed useless, then things become complicated. Sukukaja for dodge-hype or Tarukaja for strength to kill Aeons? (Offhand comment - how do people scale Aeons? Surely Aeon stats should be scaled against the other Aeons in the same way bosses are scaled down to PC-level...)
(Question! End-game ~Lv60?)

Some notable abilities that the Demifiend gets from shop-bought and compulsory Magatama: (Pre Lv. 60 only)
(Format: Skill - Available at Lv.? Effect. Comments.)
Mamudoon - Lv 49. High odds of instant death to all. Useful for PCs.
Wild Dance - Lv 31. High odds of Panic to all. Useful for death-immune PCs.
Drain Ice/Fire. Void Elec/Expel - Drains: Lv 60. Voids: 44/56. Healed by/blocks whatever element. Destroys most offensive mages.
Diarahan - Lv 47(!). Fully heals. Ouch.
Endure - Lv 50. Retains 1 HP when HP reaches 0. Basically doubles HP when mixed with Diarahan.
-kaja Spells - Lv 42-45. Increase stats. Very potent buffs, especially with Agility determining evasion and accuracy.
Dekaja - Lv 46. Removes all buffs from all enemies. Destroys all buffs. (Removes positive status - personal judgement?)
Void Mind/Nerve/Curse - Lv 34/37/42. Blocks status. All SMT statuses fall under one of these categories, including common statuses like Sleep, Charm, Stun and Poison. Basically stops status abuse.
Focus - Lv 23. Phys. attack next turn is increased by > 2x. (Any specifics, please?) Evil combined with Counter abilities or Divine Shot.
War Cry/Fog Breath - Lv 24/21. Lowers physical & magic attack/agility by two stages. Works on anything in SMT...
Divine Shot - Lv 41. Low HP cost and high critical chance. Best physical skill available pre-Lv60.
Retaliate - Lv 54. Counter for medium damage. (Avenge is > Lv 60.)
Mana Drain - Lv 28. Speaks for itself. Usually drains about 30 MP, approx. 75% chance of hitting?

Only major problem I see with Hitoshura is instant-Death, and that can be easily countered. If the enemy uses Holy (assuming Expel = Holy), then have Void Expel. Otherwise, at all times, assume the Anathema Magatama is being used - Death immunity without the skills.


So, High Heavy/Godlike/Bluelike? I'm seeing this as Bluelike, although it'd need more consideration than just a few skill selections. (Seems to me, though, that the only Godlike he can't tear apart is Yuna, and that's because of the summons. He can take them down easily enough using War Cry/Fog Breath, but then the next summon comes out. Then the next... He doesn't have the MP without using a good few Mana Drains, and doesn't have the durability to use those. Diarahan could change things, but Valefor's Sonic Wings could reverse that again.)

Oh, and just to finish off, this is only shop-bought and main story boss rewards. This isn't including any of the sidequests, and some of those could really push him even further up the ladder. Throw Lv 60+ in and... a definite Bluelike in my eyes.

[Taishyr]

A few things:

DL general rule assumes all skills, even if you aren't the right level for them (Terra/Fei are prime examples, as is Rolf IIRC). It's okay if you disagree with this (I was the same, switched over after a point mainly just because it made some fights more interesting and didn't feel too unbalanced).

For spectators wondering why we're being vague on Demifiend's speed: Agi is the speed stat, but the system uses FE/DDS phases. The only difference is that action order in the phases is forced, and depends entirely on Agi. Arguably this is just a tiebreak system, or you can throw that battle system element out (I probably do the latter) and just do Agi scaling.  In the latter case he's a fast bugger.

Taking only maingame/shop-bought rewards... he's a flexible Godlike, I'd think? Can wall a ton of the DL still anyway, and isn't someone most would want to fight. As a slight side note, I don't remember status being too effective, but I've not tested it extensively. He's still brutish as a mage/fighter/staller, whichever he needs to be.

Looking at the list, without Masakados Zophar/Ghaleon/Lady all have good shots at him boss-wise, Jenna... actually, Jenna loses, she gets debuffed to hell and can't do jack to stop it.

EDITING IN COMMENTS, GO AHEAD AND REPLY, JUST FOREWARNING YOU

Focus is 2.5x, IIRC.

Doesn't Demifiend get ID blocking below L60 as a skill? If not, huh. That opens up the field further (Rika/Tir, Tir amusingly not being able to survive two rounds unless he doubles average).

Endgame. See, this is where it gets fuzziest for me. I'd peg endgame as ~70-75... BUT my opinion is honestly skewed, I did Hard Mode which screws everything up a bit.

One other final "The Rest Of The DL..." interp note: most people, myself included, wouldn't let him switch skills between battles. Primarily because you can't relearn skills you drop, and that's the best reflection. So if he loses Masakados as an option he's kinda fumbling to make sure he can cover all his bases for the season, though Magatama swapping helps there.

[Yoshiken]

Arguably this is just a tiebreak system, or you can throw that battle system element out (I probably do the latter) and just do Agi scaling.  In the latter case he's a fast bugger.

Arguable, considering stats are determined by the player. He -can- be a fast bugger, but then he's not as strong/good with magic/able to survive. That said, I'm thinking Agi and Str are his best options here in most cases, so he would be fast.

Taking only maingame/shop-bought rewards... he's a flexible Godlike, I'd think? Can wall a ton of the DL still anyway, and isn't someone most would want to fight. As a slight side note, I don't remember status being too effective, but I've not tested it extensively. He's still brutish as a mage/fighter/staller, whichever he needs to be.

I'm judging that more by enemy accuracy with similar skills, seeing as I didn't tend to use status much. The only one I've really mentioned is Panic, which would tend to be very accurate (probably because it doesn't always affect the sufferer). Think Panic stops the target attack about 2/3 of the time, and probably hits about 75%. Overall, seems pretty useful for those who are vulnerable to status, although there'll usually be better alternatives.

Doesn't Demifiend get ID blocking below L60 as a skill? If not, huh. That opens up the field further (Rika/Tir, Tir amusingly not being able to survive two rounds unless he doubles average).

He does, but it's a sidequest Magatama, which I wasn't including. That said, he can still equip the Anathema Magatama to void death, which means he doesn't have any trouble with it.

Endgame. See, this is where it gets fuzziest for me. I'd peg endgame as ~70-75... BUT my opinion is honestly skewed, I did Hard Mode which screws everything up a bit.

Hmm. 60's probably a bit low, actually - that was a run with most sidequests done, but incomplete Labyrinth of Amala and minimal training. Going by TDE, it's probably closer to 65-70. Going up to 70 for the level does give him a few extra skills (Void Death and Avenge, for example) but nothing that changes things -too- much.

One other final "The Rest Of The DL..." interp note: most people, myself included, wouldn't let him switch skills between battles. Primarily because you can't relearn skills you drop, and that's the best reflection. So if he loses Masakados as an option he's kinda fumbling to make sure he can cover all his bases for the season, though Magatama swapping helps there.

Hrm, makes sense. That said, I doubt it'd cause too much of a problem still. Some attacks would be standard regardless of the opponent (Fog Breath/War Cry), and Magatama and a Void Skill lets him null two elements and have no weaknesses. That leaves 5 skills with which to beat 4 majorly debuffed opponents - Diarahan, Mana Drain, Divine Shot, Focus & Endure? Seems like Endure and Diarahan is good for taking out a fair few Godlikes, to begin with.

[Talaysen]

Banning sidequest Magatama is dumb unless you also ban other sidequest unique stuff.  Lots of people are hurt by this (Yuri loses Seraphic Radiance, Yuna loses some aeons, entire FFX cast loses celestials, etc.)

And my level at the end was like 90 (and one of my friends who played on Normal went past 99), so uh... whatever to L60 endgame.  Not that it matters to me since I allow overlevelled skills anyways, but just saying.

Tai is right, Focus is 2.5x.  Tarukaja increases ATK by 25% per casting up to 100%.  Rakakaja reduces damage taken by 12.5% per casting down to 50%.  Rakunda increases damage taken by 25% per casting up to 100% (stacks with Tarukaja multiplicatively to 400% max).  Tarunda reduces damage taken by 12.5% per casting down to 50% (stacks with Rakakaja multiplicatively to 25% min).

Sukukaja/Sukunda I believe work similarly (increase accuracy/evasion by 25% or reduce accuracy/evasion by 12.5%) but I'm not sure if that's end accuracy/evasion or something different (I suspect it's actually the same either way).  In any event, it's really devestating at max, since I think that reduces enemy accuracy to 1/8 base effectively.

As for stat distribution... honestly, I think what he wants depends on what you allow.  If you don't allow overlevelled skills and sidequest magatama, he probably wants Vit/Mag (since magic seems to be better than physicals until Freikugal, and don't eat up HP).  If you do, he wants Vit/Str (Freikugal is nuts).  Agi's not as useful since it's only a chance of avoiding damage, while having Vit means he just tanks it, and since he has Diarahan, he can just heal up.  I guess if you see Agi as speed, he's going to want at least average in that though.  Luck... eh, not all that useful.

[Yoshiken]

For the sidequest thing, I tend to determine that depending on the specific match-up, but that's a different discussion entirely.

Sure, you -can- go to Lv 90 endgame. You can go to Lv 255, technically. But, at that sort of level, the final bosses just become a joke. I was Lv 80 with demons Lv 81, 78 and 76, and I decimated Lucifer with ease. Add to that that the only one in my party with Pierce was Hitoshura and... Yeah, I definitely see levels that high as post-game.

That said, if attacks from after those levels were allowed, but scaled down to account for the loss of stats from levelling... Then he becomes even more overpowered. Above-average Vit and Agi ensure that he's fine against anyone who isn't ITD and ITE. High Str on top of that ensures that he's gonna tear apart most anything (even without Freikugel, Divine Shot is more powerful than most any magic you can get) that hasn't got ridiculous defence, and Pierce takes care of that.

Sukukaja and Fog Breath really do destroy almost anything, and that's why I can only see a real problem from summoning characters (hence the problematic example of Yuna), who are incredibly limited in numbers in the DL, methinks.

Having Sukukaja, Freikugel, Focus, Pierce, Diarahan, Life Surge, Mana Drain and Fog Breath is basically a winning formula for him in almost every fight. Add into that the Magatama for immunities (which would be possible to change before each battle, unlike the skills) and the fact that skills -could- be changed for the seasons if necessary, and I'm fairly sure he's much better than most Godlikes. (Any examples that he loses to are, of course, appreciated.)

[Taishyr]

Eh, I had L99 for everyone and had problems with Kagatsuchi/Lucifer!

...Hard Mode, but details. Normal Mode, I'm gutchecking I'll end around 70-75. Granted I'm usually 5-10 levels higher than the DL as a rule of thumb, so.

And I suspect level highly depends on how lost you get in the Amala Deep Dungeon. I got -really- lost and really confused there first time through.

Don't be surprised if no one else really tends to think of not allowing sidequest Magatamas. It's... pretty easy to get most of them, at least, and there's useful stuff amongst them.

Idly, what are your requirements for allowing sidequest stuff, anyway? I'm curious now.

---

As a side note, I'd honestly say dump Mana Drain. It's not enough MP drain to be useful as an offensive or defensive tool, I don't think. If you allow Freikugel, then put another buff or debuff or a status spell there. If you don't, then you may want a magic spell so he's not completely walled by physical tanks/immunes. The core of his skillset's Diarahan/Life Surge/Fog Breath/two defensive skills/chosen offense, I think? Pretty much pick and choose/adjust from there, but.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Just noting that I'm going up the Obelisk to meet Kagutsuchi now and I'm level 68, about to face Chiaki, and I have the Masakados. Normal mode. So I'm guessing 70-75 endgame personally.

The Masakados sidequest is pretty easy overall, less FAQ-bait than some of the FFX celestials.

I'd lean towards giving Demifiend Gaea Rage, too. If for no other reason than it being his signature move in DDS1.

He's too much of an interp split to rank, unfortunately. I always like seeing new high Godlikes and Demifiend has some interesting tricks.

One thing I'm curious about is if there are any other story PCs besides Demifiend and Dante? I guess you could make an argument for the uber-Pixie as story-based, and maybe Jack Frost/Black Frost?

Why is there no stat topic for this? I should have done the bosses... >.>;;

-Djinn

[Taishyr]

Bosses have a stat topic. It's on the wiki, probably badly formatted. I'll get it transferred to the forum as well later.

EDIT: Correction, it's decently formatted. Pictures are unfunctional and some line breaks don't exist, I can fix that over summer break.

http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shin_Megami_Tensei_Nocturne_Bosses

[Monkeyfinger]

No in-game stat changes turn order compared to enemies. In a one-on-one situation in game the turn order will look the same no matter how demifiend is built.
 So as far as I'm concerned he's speedless - in other words, locked at average speed.

Fog breath and suk* are pretty terrible in godlike since so many people in the division can't miss no matter what you do to them, and so many others will both be able to hit the turn after being accuracy debuffed once and go before demifiend, which means going for the accuracy debuff is giving the opponents 2 free hits - not a good thing for a godlike PC to do. DF never really had to deal with the former in game but it is a real problem in DL godlike. Oh yeah, how could I forget people faster than DF who can cure it.

All pierce does is get around resistances, right? It doesn't go through the normal defense stat? The only notable godlikes who'd be affected by that are... Fou-Lu and Violetta. (There are a couple shitty godlikes like Brahms and Luca Blight who'd be affected but DF stomps them into mucus anyway, so those cases don't matter.)

[Talaysen]

Eh, I was L90 or so, on Hard mode, and still found Lucifer easy (long, but easy).  And I only had Pierce on the Demifiend as well, and didn't have Focus.

What level the final because "really easy" doesn't matter.  Grandia II's final is a complete joke at below endgame levels.  It doesn't matter.  What matters is what people hit at the end of the game.  Apparently you hit 80, so there you go.

Agree with Tai on dumping Mana Drain.  If he's not outslugging someone without it, chances are he's not doing it with it.  Sure, it might tip a match or two somewhere, but eh.

I'd lean towards giving Demifiend Gaea Rage, too. If for no other reason than it being his signature move in DDS1.

LOL

Fog breath and suk* are pretty terrible in godlike since so many people in the division can't miss no matter what you do to them, and so many others will both be able to hit the turn after being accuracy debuffed once and go before demifiend, which means going for the accuracy debuff is giving the opponents 2 free hits - not a good thing for a godlike PC to do. DF never really had to deal with the former in game but it is a real problem in DL godlike. Oh yeah, how could I forget people faster than DF who can cure it.

There are many people faster than him and can cure stat busts?  I know status healing is decently common, but not stat bust healing.

I don't think Fog Breath is as terrible as you're implying, but I do think that the other buffs/debuffs are more potent for the DL.  Being able to just take the damage/do more damage is far better than a slowly increasing chance to evade it.  So yeah, stuff like War Cry/Tarunda/Rakakaja/Rakunda are better.

All pierce does is get around resistances, right? It doesn't go through the normal defense stat? The only notable godlikes who'd be affected by that are... Fou-Lu and Violetta. (There are a couple shitty godlikes like Brahms and Luca Blight who'd be affected but DF stomps them into mucus anyway, so those cases don't matter.)

Resistance, immunity, and absorption, I believe.  Still gets hit by reflect, IIRC.  It probably wouldn't even affect Brahms because Freikugal is Almighty and not physical.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I'd lean towards giving Demifiend Gaea Rage, too. If for no other reason than it being his signature move in DDS1.

LOL

He can get Gaea Rage from one of his Magatama on a first playthrough at lv74... I don't see what's so LOL about this. It just seems like a good offensive skill. And since it's his signature move in DDS, it seems like a good one to consider.

You don't have to agree, that's fine, but you also don't have to laugh in my proverbial face about it.

-Djinn

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I think the "lol" isn't about allowing it or not.

[Talaysen]

He can get Gaea Rage from one of his Magatama on a first playthrough at lv74... I don't see what's so LOL about this. It just seems like a good offensive skill. And since it's his signature move in DDS, it seems like a good one to consider.

You don't have to agree, that's fine, but you also don't have to laugh in my proverbial face about it.

The reasoning you mentioned the first time was pretty LOL.

And I don't recall Gaea Rage being that good.  Certainly isn't going to beat out Freikugal.

[DjinnAndTonic]

There's a few differences between them. Gaea Rage is true MT for pesky problems like Belial. It also has a high crit rate and can potentially outdamage Freikugel on crits IIRC. Also, Freikugel is learned at lv80, which might be passed endgame for some.

Also, while I'm not sure how much effect it would have - Gaea Rage isn't Almighty, it's simply physical, which might matter somewhere along the line.

-Djinn

[Yoshiken]

If anything, that would make Gaea Rage worse. "Almighty" is basically Megaten's answer to "non-elemental", which generally means there'll be little or no resistance to it, especially in comparison to physical attacks.
Also, Gaea Rage can outdamage Freikugel, methinks, but generally won't, and MT won't be that useful in the DL - certainly not useful enough to use it over Freikugel, methinks.

Fog Breath, sure, is screwed over by ITE, but ITE attacks tend to be less powerful than ones subject to accuracy, and Fog Breath does a hell of a lot to evasion and accuracy - as was said earlier:

In any event, it's really devestating at max, since I think that reduces enemy accuracy to 1/8 base effectively.

About the endgame level... I guess 60 probably was a little low. But 80 was also too high - that was after every sidequest, optional boss and dungeon, and then training for a further 10 levels 'cause I'd heard about how hard Lucifer was. As you said, not hard, just a long fight.

Mana Drain just seemed preferable for the longer fights that'll rely on Diarahan - it's got a pretty high cost and might be needed, but I guess I see the argument against Mana Drain - in that sort of situation, Mana Surge would probably be better, wouldn't it?

Djinn, for possible rankings from this, you're mostly looking at bosses... But arguments could be made for Dante, either Pixie, Black Frost or any of the demons bought from the Shady Brokers.
(I'd quite like to see some of the bosses ranked, actually. Namely: Ahriman, Baal Avatar, Noah (he doesn't immune physical, right?), Black Frost, Kagutsuchi, Lucifer and Mara.)


(Oh, and Tai, as for allowing sidequests, I tend to judge it on the specific match. If one character is completely outclassed with/without them, then I tend to go with the other option, just to make it a more even fight.)

[Monkeyfinger]

Black Frost had a go in NR godlike once. Did alright.

[Talaysen]

There's a few differences between them. Gaea Rage is true MT for pesky problems like Belial. It also has a high crit rate and can potentially outdamage Freikugel on crits IIRC. Also, Freikugel is learned at lv80, which might be passed endgame for some.

Are you kidding?  Freikugal has a nutsy critical rate.  That's not really an advantage in Gaea Rage's favor.  MT would matter more for Belial if she didn't just 4D Pocket him away.  If for some silly reason you don't allow that, Freikugal crit on the Distortion -> nuke Belial probably wins it for him anyway.

If anything, that would make Gaea Rage worse. "Almighty" is basically Megaten's answer to "non-elemental", which generally means there'll be little or no resistance to it, especially in comparison to physical attacks.
Also, Gaea Rage can outdamage Freikugel, methinks, but generally won't, and MT won't be that useful in the DL - certainly not useful enough to use it over Freikugel, methinks.

Agreed.

Fog Breath, sure, is screwed over by ITE, but ITE attacks tend to be less powerful than ones subject to accuracy, and Fog Breath does a hell of a lot to evasion and accuracy - as was said earlier:

Actually, this isn't really true.  A lot of games make their physical skills ITE, and those tend to be stronger than basic physicals (ex. Grandia series, Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star 4)

About the endgame level... I guess 60 probably was a little low. But 80 was also too high - that was after every sidequest, optional boss and dungeon, and then training for a further 10 levels 'cause I'd heard about how hard Lucifer was. As you said, not hard, just a long fight.

I REALLY don't see the point in arguing for a level lower than what you actually got to.  Personally, if I have to make a decision to two different endgame levels, I will use the higher one.  It's less likely to screw people over and actually lets people use more of their skillset.  Restricting level like this just makes the characters more boring and is kind of counterintuitive since you actually hit the higher level.

Mana Drain just seemed preferable for the longer fights that'll rely on Diarahan - it's got a pretty high cost and might be needed, but I guess I see the argument against Mana Drain - in that sort of situation, Mana Surge would probably be better, wouldn't it?

A) I don't think many fights are going to rely on using Diaharam many times over and over.
B) I don't remember what Mana Surge was (flat boost to MP?), but it's probably more useful in general since it doesn't eat turns.

(Oh, and Tai, as for allowing sidequests, I tend to judge it on the specific match. If one character is completely outclassed with/without them, then I tend to go with the other option, just to make it a more even fight.)

...

Nerfing people (or buffing people) because they outclass (or are outclassed by) their opponent is really silly.  It causes situations where someone can lose a match because... they were winning it too easily (or vice versa).  That's just wrong.

[TranceHime]

B) I don't remember what Mana Surge was (flat boost to MP?), but it's probably more useful in general since it doesn't eat turns.

It is indeed a flat % based boost to MP. Don't remember offhand how much exactly but it is probably better for the dude to have precisely because of what you said >_>

[Yoshiken]

Fog Breath, sure, is screwed over by ITE, but ITE attacks tend to be less powerful than ones subject to accuracy, and Fog Breath does a hell of a lot to evasion and accuracy - as was said earlier:

Actually, this isn't really true.  A lot of games make their physical skills ITE, and those tend to be stronger than basic physicals (ex. Grandia series, Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star 4)

Either way, I still think Fog Breath will be useful more often than not.

And Life/Mana Surge give a 30% increase.

[Talaysen]

Either way, I still think Fog Breath will be useful more often than not.

Hmm.  The issue here is that he only gets eight skills, and I think there are at least eight more useful skills.  If there wasn't such a limitation, I'd probably agree with you.

Personally I let him switch in between matches anyways so it's not a big deal to me, but most people don't agree with that.

And Life/Mana Surge give a 30% increase.

I don't think a 30% increase to MP is needed (but I haven't checked numbers), but it is likely better than Mana Drain.  Life Surge should definitely be on by default though.

[Taishyr]

Mmmm... Depends, really. He can get away with a lot of leeway, I think to me his main skills are Diarahan/Focus/Freikugel/Endure and the other four are flexible. Fog Breath would be a high candidate, as well as War Cry. Pierce he'd only really want in a season with Jenna Angel, I think? And even then he arguably doesn't need it there.

Granted, I consider him as having Masakados no sweat, so he doesn't need much for defensive purposes.

Mmm. On reflection, I think I'd give him...

Diarahan/Freikugel/Endure/Fog Breath/War Cry/Wind Cutter/Force Boost/Life Surge on an average season.

Focus is pretty useful, buuuuut... gut checks that Freikugel 2HKOs average at minimum, Focus thus is only needed against really good opponents, and he just doesn't have the time for Focus in a field higher than Bluelike is my feeling. I could be wrong here! Badly so! If that's the case, drop... Fog Breath, yeah. If he needs two elements (field with Jenna Angel, for example) drop Force Boost and Wind Cutter for MT versions of his wind/electric magic.

[Yoshiken]

Focus is pretty useful, buuuuut... gut checks that Freikugel 2HKOs average at minimum, Focus thus is only needed against really good opponents, and he just doesn't have the time for Focus in a field higher than Bluelike is my feeling. I could be wrong here! Badly so! If that's the case, drop... Fog Breath, yeah. If he needs two elements (field with Jenna Angel, for example) drop Force Boost and Wind Cutter for MT versions of his wind/electric magic.

Hunh. I can understand the logic behind Focus, I guess. If allowing changes to skills between matches, then Focus could be used for those that Freikugel doesn't 2HKO, but I guess there'd be more that it does than doesn't.

Question, though: Why does he need two elements against Jenna Angel? You said earlier that Pierce would take care of her, so I'm not really seeing the problem - why not just replace Force Boost with Pierce?

And why the MT versions > Wind Cutter? And which MT version - Mazandyne/Maziodyne or Tornado/Bolt Storm? (Guessing the latter...)

(And I could've sworn Pierce was ITD as well as resistances...)

[Taishyr]

If Pierce is ITD then yeah, toss it back on.

IIRC if a core of Jenna Angel's second form is alive, she reflects the element of that core. She has a physical core, and Freikugel -does- hit Tetrakarn, IIRC (I had forgotten this). (This one is iffy. I need to check it. Mrf mrf. More to do. Freikugel's a weird combo of Almighty and physical types, so it may just hit Tetrakarn due to the latter part.) Pierce won't bypass it.

Thus against Jenna he wants Maziodyne/Mazandyne (can consistently hit all 7 parts, Tornado/Bolt Storm won't work, might miss).

Wind Cutter's ST and thus can't kill off multiple cores at once. Otherwise it's his best elemental damage, and I'm pretty sure it tops Megidolaonn thanks to Boost.

EDITING IN COMMENTARY:

If Freikugel both ignores Tetrakarn and Pierce allows ITD, then yeah he just Freikugels her to death. I don't really remember, though, it's been three+ years since I beat SMTN I think?

[Talaysen]

Mmmm... Depends, really. He can get away with a lot of leeway, I think to me his main skills are Diarahan/Focus/Freikugel/Endure and the other four are flexible. Fog Breath would be a high candidate, as well as War Cry. Pierce he'd only really want in a season with Jenna Angel, I think? And even then he arguably doesn't need it there.

Honestly, I think Rakunda/Tarunda/Rakakaja are all more useful than Fog Breath offhand.  Probably wants Life Surge as well, since +30% mHP is a big boost to durability.

Granted, I consider him as having Masakados no sweat, so he doesn't need much for defensive purposes.

Still needs to tank the big nonelemental stuff.  There's a good amount of it, I want to say.

Mmm. On reflection, I think I'd give him...

Diarahan/Freikugel/Endure/Fog Breath/War Cry/Wind Cutter/Force Boost/Life Surge on an average season.

I don't even remember Wind Cutter.  I was thinking Tornado (unless Zandyne is more damaging).

Focus is pretty useful, buuuuut... gut checks that Freikugel 2HKOs average at minimum, Focus thus is only needed against really good opponents, and he just doesn't have the time for Focus in a field higher than Bluelike is my feeling. I could be wrong here! Badly so! If that's the case, drop... Fog Breath, yeah. If he needs two elements (field with Jenna Angel, for example) drop Force Boost and Wind Cutter for MT versions of his wind/electric magic.

Focus is useful for busting through limits and mitigating the HP loss from Freikugal, really.  Of course, War Cry + Rakunda alone may be enough in just about all cases, so I dunno.  I'll admit it's probably not high priority now that I think about it.

If Pierce is ITD then yeah, toss it back on.

[...]

If Freikugel both ignores Tetrakarn and Pierce allows ITD, then yeah he just Freikugels her to death. I don't really remember, though, it's been three+ years since I beat SMTN I think?

I'm about 90% sure that Freikugal is NOT ITD and hits reflect (either that or it hit absorb, whichever SMTN considers "best").

[Yoshiken]

I don't even remember Wind Cutter.  I was thinking Tornado (unless Zandyne is more damaging).

Wind Cutter's better than either. Zandyne is heavy damage, Wind Cutter is mega damage. With Force Boost, I think it usually did about 600 to something without any weakness/resistance.

I'm about 90% sure that Freikugal is NOT ITD and hits reflect (either that or it hit absorb, whichever SMTN considers "best").

That's definitely reflect. Pierce hits enemies with Drain Phys, but not ones with Repel Phys.
And I think the question isn't whether or not Freikugel's ITD but whether or not Pierce is. Can't say I remember, and can't test this, as I borrowed Nocturne a while back. Haven't been able to get a copy since. =/