Watching any anime?

[Fudozukushi]

Humdedum. 4 episodes into Nanoha, already more interesting than a lot of magical girl stuff. Gots all of Monster and Nodame Cantabile off of a friend. And keeping up with Gundam 00, with plans to download Turn A sometime soon and possibly go buy Overman King Gainger.

Is anyone else here still interested in 00? The last ep seems like it miiiight lead to some epic badassery.

I still watch it.  I'm just too lazy to comment.

[Hunter Sopko]

I guess I'll stay away from Aquarion after all. Oh well.

Watch the first 18 episodes, cause they're awesome, and then just make up your own ending out of conjecture. It'll probably be right.

[Twilkitri]

Let's see...

Full Metal Panic TSR
Pretty good. Somewhat disjunct from the first series... Sousuke is dimmer than he was at the start of the first series although he'd improved throughout it, Callinin's personality seems somewhat altered, and so on. To say nothing of Sousuke randomly deciding to hate on Arbalest all because a weapon he doesn't regularly need doesn't work much, which seems entirely out of character, and all the angstiness near the end. Meanwhile everything Leonard-related appears to serve no purpose whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention assassin-girl I forget the name of slaughtering a bunch of mercenaries but they failing horribly against Kaname.

But all problems aside, it's still a decent enough show. First series is considerably better. Shop needs to hurry up and restock on Fumuffo.
The side-episode about Tessa was okay. The segment near the start where Tessa's coming on to Sousuke while Al's running tactical tests in the background was pretty funny.


Voices of a Distant Star
Garbage. Complete trash. It's very pretty at points, I'll give it that. But that's ALL it has.

The entire story is effectively the blurb on the back of the box. Just read it and then you won't have to waste any money on this dreck. Looks like a good concept, right? Mikako sends text messages to Noboru while she heads into space and they take longer and longer to reach him? Surely a highly enthralling tale can be built off this. Except the entire plot is. Mikako's messages take longer and longer to reach him. They don't build ANYTHING off it. There is probably less than 100 lines of dialogue in the ENTIRE FILM, for all that it is only half an hour, which is both a saving grace and a downside as you don't have to put up with it for very long but also maybe if it was longer they might have actually managed to make a half-worthwhile story show up somewhere. NOBORU DOESN'T SHOW ANY EMOTION THE ENTIRE FILM AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A LOVE STORY.


Mazinkaiser
It'd been too long since I saw some AWESOME SUPER ROBOTTERY
Mazinkaiser's pretty great. If you exclude the beach episode. I don't think it beats Mazinger Z, but pretty good all around. Too short.
Also watched the movie. Inferior to the series, really.


Zeorymer
I had heard bad things about this but I liked it. Sort of suffers from shortness as well but I'm not entirely sure how it could be lengthened at all. Somewhat of a shame that I already knew what Masato's evil side was called from SRWJ as it kind of ruined the twist, but at least the twist extended further than just that one area. Had an annoyingly vague ending ._.


Currently watching Excel Saga. Up to episode 10. It has been being awesome so far, hopefully this will remain the case.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Let's see...
Voices of a Distant Star
Garbage. Complete trash. It's very pretty at points, I'll give it that. But that's ALL it has.

The entire story is effectively the blurb on the back of the box. Just read it and then you won't have to waste any money on this dreck. Looks like a good concept, right? Mikako sends text messages to Noboru while she heads into space and they take longer and longer to reach him? Surely a highly enthralling tale can be built off this. Except the entire plot is. Mikako's messages take longer and longer to reach him. They don't build ANYTHING off it. There is probably less than 100 lines of dialogue in the ENTIRE FILM, for all that it is only half an hour, which is both a saving grace and a downside as you don't have to put up with it for very long but also maybe if it was longer they might have actually managed to make a half-worthwhile story show up somewhere. NOBORU DOESN'T SHOW ANY EMOTION THE ENTIRE FILM AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A LOVE STORY.

It's a short piece... that's kind of the point. I don't know what you were expecting from it, but the whole thing was written, animated, CG'd, edited, scored, and voiced by one guy and his wife...

It was a simple story, and the concept is quite original, and that's all the piece was supposed to be... a concept. As for Noboru's lack of emotion... honestly it's probably the most realistic depiction of a Japanese male I've ever seen in an anime... >.>;;

-Djinn

[Twilkitri]

Something that's a concept and nothing else should not hold pretensions to being mass-market. The trailers and case give off no indications that it is what it is (aside from the 30-minute run length if you look for that information). You could say that these things are the publisher's fault, but that doesn't change anything relevant.

It only being done by two people means they're very good at the visual side of things at least, but that's about it. It doesn't mean that it should get any pity-care (probably the wrong term, but I'm drawing a blank).

[AndrewRogue]

Its been a while since I last watched it, but as someone who thought it was very solid, I feel necessitated to defend it.

Anyhow, frankly, I'm not really sure what pretensions you were referring to. The thing delivers on exactly what was promised. Admittedly, yeah, it falls outside standard storytelling structure (which is a take it or leave it situation, but hey) in that it doesn't really go with the pyramid structure. What it does do is deliver an increasingly difficult emotional resonance. No, Noboru isn't bawling and crying or what not, but it seems pretty evident that he's enduring the entire situation with a sort of quiet solemnity, which is an acceptable and moving response. What can you do with the situation?

Calling it dreck is certainly taking the entire thing a bit far. The work is rather impressive for what it is, and, when it comes down to it, I think a lot of your response is just a particularly negative response to a story structure that exists outside the norm. Ironically, if I recall it right, the emotional arc fits right along that though, allowing it to maintain some semblance of structure. So, yeah. I'll have to rewatch to review, but it sounds like the entire source of your dislike is that you expected one thing and got something else. Fair enough, but not really reason to call it dreck.

*shrugs* Of course, to each their own.

[Twilkitri]

"[...] Voices of a Distant Star is a technical marvel and a contemporary masterpiece of storytelling. Voices deftly weaves a tale of interstellar excitement and heartbreaking romance. Don't miss this new animation classic about the tragedy of war and the power of love.'

Those would be the ones I was referring to. Technical marvel? It's very pretty at points, but I'm not sure if it was technically marvelous even for 2002.

Masterpiece of storytelling? Interstellar excitement? Heartbreaking romance? Tragedy of war? Power of love? A deftly woven tale? No, no, no. I'm not finding any of these.

It might deliver on what the people who made it promised, perhaps. But unfortunately their promises aren't relevant as they aren't listed anywhere.
As I'm not an artistic person, I don't know what you mean by a pyramid structure for a storyline. But in any case I'm not really seeing the storyline as being structured differently from other storylines; but then my concept of a storyline doesn't stretch much further than 'things happen'. Can you expand on this perhaps.

I don't remember Noboru showing any emotions of any kind ever even while Mikako was still around (but the movie was highly forgettable, and is compounded against my memory's horrific failure as well). I wasn't intending to mean that emotional overload was required or anything to that effect.
What can you do with the situation? That was for the makers to figure out. If the answer was 'nothing' as they appear to have come up with, perhaps that's a sign that the situation isn't the sort of thing you should be doing anything with.

'Dreck' is an extremely minor insult. Not entirely sure why you're taking issue with it.
It's impressive graphically, but I'm easily impressed graphically. I'm unsure as to which direction you're heading in with 'for what it is', whether the sense of something done by only two people apparently or something else, so I can't go any further on that thread.

[Hunter Sopko]

The blurb on the back of the case is definately a hyperbole, but it's marketing speak. It's still a surberbly told story about two people who care about each other, regardless of the time/distance between them.

The main emotion being shown in Voices is longing. It's a pretty tough emotion to portray, since it's usually everpresent and internal. It's subtle, but their time together in the beginning shows they care about each other by how relaxed they are around each other.  Just by the way Noboru constantly checks his messages shows they he's always thinking about her. Even after the first jump, when he decides it's time to stop waiting, when he finally recieves mail from her, he's obviously distraught and you can tell the feelings are still there. He has to vow to himself move on, but can't. Even at 24, he's waited all that time because no matter what, he still can't forget her. He's still keeping up with the armada, he's looking into the latest communications technology. He may have moved on, it's implied he decided not to but we can't tell, but this is still a big part of his life, to the point where he's joined the next armada. It builds slowly to the climax, where they reaffirm if there is one thing they could say to each other, it's that they were still there.

I honestly think overt emotions the likes what we usually see in anime would have ruined the piece. In fact, I think it's demure, subtle way of storytelling only enhances the quality.If you want to talk pretension, you usually point to Makoto Shinkai's other works, not Voices. Voices is very simply told, but thats what makes it good.

Maybe it spoke to me because I've been in long distance relationships and I know the feelings that the characters are going through, but I think that would make me more critical of it if they got it wrong.

The anime also gets props for using the Gunbuster style cockpit. >.>

[Grefter]

The anime also gets props for using the Gunbuster style cockpit. >.>

That just killed it for me.  This was starting to sound interesting and then it has super robots and I no longer care.

[Sierra]

They're very plain, functional, and utilitarian super robots. I consider this a point in the movie's favor, as I don't have much respect for any military organization that burns cash on tailfins and crazy, giant boomerang lookin' eyebrows. Granted, said military organization also hires sixteen-year-olds, apparently.

[Hunter Sopko]

The anime also gets props for using the Gunbuster style cockpit. >.>

That just killed it for me.  This was starting to sound interesting and then it has super robots and I no longer care.

It's  a half hour, Grefter. Suck it up and stop being a whiny little commie bitch.

[Twilkitri]

The blurb on the back of the case is definately a hyperbole, but it's marketing speak.

I went through my DVD collection, and I will grant that it is not the most extensive collection ever, but the only title that was even half as self-aggrandising was Macross Plus. The majority didn't even stray from talking about the plot to natter about the meta-quality of the show. It's not normal.

The main emotion being shown in Voices is longing. It's a pretty tough emotion to portray, since it's usually everpresent and internal. It's subtle, but their time together in the beginning shows they care about each other by how relaxed they are around each other. Just by the way Noboru constantly checks his messages shows they he's always thinking about her. Even after the first jump, when he decides it's time to stop waiting, when he finally recieves mail from her, he's obviously distraught and you can tell the feelings are still there. He has to vow to himself move on, but can't. Even at 24, he's waited all that time because no matter what, he still can't forget her. He's still keeping up with the armada, he's looking into the latest communications technology. He may have moved on, it's implied he decided not to but we can't tell, but this is still a big part of his life, to the point where he's joined the next armada. It builds slowly to the climax, where they reaffirm if there is one thing they could say to each other, it's that they were still there.

I think you're reading a lot into it there. Especially given how little time some of the points you mention were given. Personally, I didn't see half the stuff you list there as being what you list there.

In any case if something is set up that you need to read into it to get anything out of it, it has failed. Horribly.

I honestly think overt emotions the likes what we usually see in anime would have ruined the piece.

I already said that I didn't mean that overtery was necessary. Unless we are running off different definitions of overt.

To attempt to cut this line of conversation off at the post, can I restate that Noboru's blankness was never the major complaint in the first place. It was an example of the show's general ineptitude.

[Sierra]

In any case if something is set up that you need to read into it to get anything out of it, it has failed. Horribly.

Because all good fiction gets the point across by beating you over the head with expository dialogue?

[Twilkitri]

In any case if something is set up that you need to read into it to get anything out of it, it has failed. Horribly.

Because all good fiction gets the point across by beating you over the head with expository dialogue?

In any case if something is set up that you need to read into it to get anything out of it, it has failed. Horribly.

[Grefter]

Twil has a point there, if you have nothing to say then say nothing, don't make shit up and pretend it has something to do with anything.

I was going to say more backing him up, but meh, doesn't need it.

It's  a half hour, Grefter. Suck it up and stop being a whiny little commie bitch.

I don't have to suck it up and put up with watching dreck for half an hour when I have plenty of other stuff to watch for hours that I still haven't.

[Hunter Sopko]

Twil has a point there, if you have nothing to say then say nothing, don't make shit up and pretend it has something to do with anything.

I was going to say more backing him up, but meh, doesn't need it.

Only it does, and 90% of it is very, very obvious. The other 10% is stuff you can easily infer despite the short amount of time spent covering it. It's one thing to say "Hey, I see the theme of the piece, but I don't like it." but another to say it's not there entirely.

Voices is far and away better than Kakurenbo, Gref, and you watched that >.>

[NotMiki]

It's one thing to say "Hey, I see the theme of the piece, but I don't like it." but another to say it's not there entirely.

It's a half hour.  It's intentionally ambiguous as to the male lead's emotions and what is actually going on with the aliens.  Intentional ambiguity can be good or bad, depending on whether the possibilities it implies are interesting ones.  They are, so it's good.  Simple enough.

It's a lot like a Philip K. Dick short story, actually.  Take an interesting concept, people experiencing time at different rates, flesh it out a little and make a vignette out of it.

EDIT: Whatever you do, though, never watch it with your significant other if you're in a long-distance relationship.

[Strago]

In any case if something is set up that you need to read into it to get anything out of it, it has failed. Horribly.

Because all good fiction gets the point across by beating you over the head with expository dialogue?

In any case if something is set up that you need to read into it to get anything out of it, it has failed. Horribly.

Rebuttal: if all you're looking for is to be forcefed something, anything, by film or TV or literature, you're doin' it wrong.

I really want to watch this movie now.

[Twilkitri]

I can't find any way to match up forcefeeding with the target matter.

I watch film or tv and read 'literature' to be entertained. You can't be forcefed entertainment, it doesn't work like that.

I don't watch film or tv and read 'literature' to participate in some author's deluded elitist game wherein you must try to send your mind into contortions in an attempt to match their mindset and grasp some subtext they've tried to insert into what is, to someone that is liably 'uncultured' or similar in their mind, a completely pointless material. If they want to add subtext to something that is entertaining in its own right? Knock themselves out. I don't care if they add 50 freaking layers of it all beneath each other, as long as the material itself stands on its own without having to engage in mindreading.

Voices is _not_ entertaining in its own right. And even if I try to rotate my view to interpret it according to what people have said here, it's still not entertaining. Empathy for the characters is looked for and found to be nonexistant.

And some kinds of people will always look for, and find, subtexts and so forth in material that were never actually there in the first place, which is part of why I don't prescribe to having any respect for that kind of thing. And I believe that that is partially the case with what people are thinking about Voices here, in case that's not apparent already.

[Grefter]

I don't watch film or tv and read 'literature' to participate in some author's deluded elitist game wherein you must try to send your mind into contortions in an attempt to match their mindset and grasp some subtext they've tried to insert into what is, to someone that is liably 'uncultured' or similar in their mind, a completely pointless material. If they want to add subtext to something that is entertaining in its own right? Knock themselves out. I don't care if they add 50 freaking layers of it all beneath each other, as long as the material itself stands on its own without having to engage in mindreading.

See by not participating in your entertainment on that level then you are really missing out on some awesome stuff.  Candide is shit if all you do is take it on face value.  Bill Hicks isn't funny if you take him seriously.  Queen is horrible music if you don't take part in how over the top it is.  Something which merely exposits for the sake of entertainment is only going to entertain while you are taking part in it.  The best entertainment will continue to entertain after it is over.

Just because a work wasn't intended to have a subtext doesn't mean it lacks one however.  People write things into their works subconsciously very easilly, prejudices and beliefs are going to seep into even the best author's writing just be shear virtue of that being how they think.  The other option is that the writing is so incredibly poor that the mish mash plot at the end can have a subtext by that being the only plot elements that tie the work together (see Ar Tonelico).

This might not be for everyone, but no work is going to surpass one without it.  If you don't approach literature/cinema/games like this then you aren't really judging things on any other level than instant gratification.  If you aren't going to even analyse things then quite frankly there is no point to even examining them in depth in the first place.  May as well keep it on the level of "I watched this, it was fun" and get it over with.

[Twilkitri]

Unfortunately I don't know anything about Candide or Bill Hicks. I do know Queen! But I'm not sure what you mean by what you said about it. Regardless of that, I don't believe I participate in what you said but I don't see how anyone can call it bad in any way (aside from reasons of taste, of course, which, as far as I understand things, are irrelevant to the point at hand).

It's all well and good to say things like

If you don't approach literature/cinema/games like this then you aren't really judging things on any other level than instant gratification.

but that's the only gear my mind works in. I don't personally consider it a flaw because what I've seen of the other gears have massively grated on me; other people enjoy that sort of thing, that's all well and good, but that just comes right back to matters of taste.

I didn't try to examine it indepth in the first place. I thought it was horrible, I said it was horrible, I threw up a couple examples of why I thought it was horrible.

[Grefter]

Fair enough and yeah I was trying to add a bit to my post that was if that is how you work then that is cool, but it sucked so I cut it out.

Ala Queen, man you can't listen to Princes of the Universe and not tell me it is pure camp cheese.  It is fun and you fully embrace the cheese and love every moment of it.

[NotMiki]

Entertainment always includes an implicit cost/benefit analysis of how much you want to put into it vs. how much you think you might be able to get out of it, learning a foreign language to be able to read a foreign work in the original, for example.  I think the issue here isn't really that people think someone always must put forward the effort necessary for enjoyment; it's just that they don't see how Twilk could not enjoy Voices based on the effort he did put in.

On the subject of Queen, Gref, it's worth keeping in mind that there are people out there who enjoy Queen at face value, and there are others who enjoy it because of its campiness but don't realize that it's intended to be as such.  Other folks like it just because of football games.

I'm not so sure there's much of a difference, which is why I don't understand Code Geass watchers.  If you enjoy terrible plot twists because you think they're cool or you like them for what we'll term the 'Jerry Springer' effect, bottom line is you like you some terrible plot twists.  I mean, even if you really do read Playboy for the articles, there are plenty of mags out there that have comparable articles but no nudie pics.

[Grefter]

People watch Code Geass because we need to have one way of determining whether or not the person dies when the great human culling begins.

[Twilkitri]

Excel Saga - Finished.
Unfortunately for my hopes, it tended to deteriorate pretty badly as the series progressed. Still a fair few high points throughout though. I got far too little of the references in Invasion, Mother ;_;

I barely see how the final episode went especially far at all, let alone too far. Granted that's somewhat a blessing as too far wouldn't really be the sort of thing I would care to see, but on the whole it was more brain-damaged than anything else.

I wonder if I should add Puni Puni to my big list o' things to buy. Trailer doesn't make it look like the most worthwhile thing ever.


Vexille - Watched.
Very nice. Also pretty pretty. Has put Appleseed right onto my radar.


Started rewatching Mazinger Z for some reason. Fun fun. Not sure what I'm going to start watching that I haven't seen next.