Touhou Mafia - Main Topic

[EvilTom]

Oh, that was a question too? Well I've corrected 100% of his grammar mistakes that I've noticed. What more do you want from me?
And did you even read my post?

The reason I'm voting for Otter isn't OMGUS. It's because he said things about me that I felt weren't true at all. I wasn't inciting anything. There wasn't any big arguments, or a Smodge/Tom thing. Otter placed his vote and then created it.

I know that Otter voting for me doesn't instantly mean he's scum. I don't care if he voted for me or not. I care that he seized on an opportunity to blow the entire 'grammar correction' thing way out of proportion. Seriously, if Otter corrected a spelling mistake in my post (I just noticed I typed 'lieing' instead of 'lying') then I wouldn't expect somebody to go:
"Oh-ho! Otter is being incivil to Evil Tom! Why are you creating rifts? I can't say this is town behaviour!"
It's stupid. But it's what Otter said. Further:
"Otter, you don't always correct Evil Tom's posts! Why did you do it this time and not other times?!"
It's ridiculous. How can you even use that as an argument? I've complained to him numerous times, on MSN, in real life etc.

If anything, I find Otter to be the most suspicious because he's using such arguments. It's not OMGUS at all.

Rat was clever (as always) and noticed that Otter made a deal out of my harmless comment but completely ignored Corwin's. Which effectively said "slay smodge for bad grammar".


Yakumo: I doubt removing my vote from Otter at this stage would look especially town-ish. If I removed my vote from him now, I'd look worse.

[Shale]

I am also debating using the Phantom Vote system, which I would prefer to the No Lynch system (though only because old habits die hard <3).

Explain?

[Halbarad]

##UNVOTE: Otter

Shrine maiden has appeared and posted good content, so sukima is happy.

I'm not totally coherent at the moment (go glass of wine for dinner) but I'll go over what I've seen at least.

Andrew: Has posted enough to satisfy me, doesn't need more pressure. It's day 1, content is hard to conjure up out of nothing.

Smodge13: Has had some bloody stupid ideas about impersonation, but I'm more of the mind that these are just ill-thought ideas aside. Even setting the Mafia game and its impact on this aside, impersonation is very strictly against the board rules, and any attempts at impersonation either in or out of a Mafia topic would be greeted with banhammer warnings, Mafia game and my position in it aside. So no, that would be patently insane for anyone to pull, scum or otherwise.

EvilTom: You're looking the poorest to me right now. Yakko's summed it up nicely, but the rabid opposition to every vote against you... can you not understand -why- you look bad right now? Alex was the first to call you down for heavy OMGUSing against Smodge; more of this shows up against Smodge's Really Dumb Idea™ post. Then Otter calls you out on you nitpicking at Smodge for grammar concerns; while it's a shaky case, this is day 1, so most cases are going to be shaky - yet you take it like a wholesale attack on your character and ancestry, and the more it's pointed out how you're overreacting, the more you overreact.

To be honest, I'm not totally convinced you're scum; while you're blowing things way out of proportion, those can be the actions of a townie who's been spooked. But if you're going to react like this every time you're accused, you're a perfect smokescreen for the real scum, who can just start fingering you and let the ensuing debacle cover their tracks.

##VOTE: EvilTom

Again, I'm not convinced you're scum, but at the moment you're looking like the most reasonable target for a lynch even if you -are- town, just because the way you're acting now is a liability to the rest of us the more opportunity you have to keep it up.

[Chisa]

A nice couple of posts, but for one fact.  Tom, it's still you who made the big fuss out of this.  I look at Otter's vote post, and what I see is a very aggressive town player trying to get any shred of info he can out of day one.  Between that post and yours, there are seventeen posts.  You were mentioned only once, and that was Otter wrapping up a discussion about Mafia etiquette.  Admittedly, he does use the word "blatant" when I at least didn't feel it so, but it was in the context of that discussion.  There was no rush on you, no big deal, just him putting a vote, and trying to scum hunt.  What happens?  You hype it like it's some sort of eleventh-hour hammer.  You could have just mentioned that yes, this wasn't a big thing, just trying to help Smodge with the grammar.  But instead you blow up and claim he's trying to get you lynched.  That's not a good thing for town to be doing.  Yep, thanks for making up my mind.
##Vote: EvilTom

[Yakumo]

Screw this.  I try and help you figure out why you look bad, and you don't listen to what I'm trying to tell you.  Nobody but you sees Otter's actions as odd.  Can't you see that?  Why can't you figure out that this is, whether you intend it to be or not, going to be seen as a case of OMGUS?  Seriously, I'm sick of trying to help you figure this out, I guess you're just going to have to earn yourself day one lynches again and again until you finally get it.  Seriously, even if you're a townie, the way you're playing now you are an asset to the scum, and one I'm going to have to say we need to get rid of.

##Unvote: Nitori, ##Vote: EvilTom

[Kilgamayan]

I am also debating using the Phantom Vote system, which I would prefer to the No Lynch system (though only because old habits die hard <3).

Explain?

Under the Phantom Vote system, everyone that doesn't have a vote placed somewhere when the end-of-day hammer drops gets a permanent Anonyvote attached to them (at FFR they were labeled "Phantom", which is where the name came from). The kayfabe idea is "hey that guy can't make up his mind he must be up to something" and that albatross is hung around the player's neck for the rest of the game.

(Obviously, if a majority decision is reached before the deadline, no phantom votes are handed out.)

[EvilTom]

Blah. Fine. I guess I'm wrong on the otter thing.

##Unvote Otter.

It was worth a try. I'll stop being a pain now.

[Halbarad]

Under the Phantom Vote system, everyone that doesn't have a vote placed somewhere when the end-of-day hammer drops gets a permanent Anonyvote attached to them (at FFR they were labeled "Phantom", which is where the name came from). The kayfabe idea is "hey that guy can't make up his mind he must be up to something" and that albatross is hung around the player's neck for the rest of the game.

(Obviously, if a majority decision is reached before the deadline, no phantom votes are handed out.)

Interesting concept. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it tried, it'll force everyone to go SOMEWHERE at least. Not sure how well it'll work, but the best way to find out is to try it.

[Ranmilia]

I... geez.  Hal's pretty much summed up how I feel on Tom and why I've left my vote on him.  I keep getting burnt on this, but he's the scummiest at the moment, and if he's going to continue to be so, there's no way around lynching him.  Unfortunately that also means that he's dug into a hole of public opinion that he essentially *can't* get out of now, no matter *what* he does.

I can actually see where his vote on Otter is coming from, Otter does toss around the hyperbole a lot.  But that's more a mountains out of molehills thing than a scumtell on both sides.

Edit for Kilga:  Okay I don't have to ask what that system is now!  But uhh that seems *awfully* scum-favored, even moreso than no lynch, as it essentially moves up LYLO by making townies scum-hammerable with fewer votes.  Not too keen on it.

[Yakumo]

Eh.  It's only scum-favorable if the townies sit around and do nothing.  If the townies actually use their votes like they're supposed to, it won't matter at all.

[Kilgamayan]

I think it's actually less scum favorable than our current system, as under most circumstances scum wouldn't mind seeing a No Lynch. Phantom votes force decisiveness more because no one wants to attract that kind of attention regardless of their alignment.

EDIT: But we're free to discuss this in private or postgame. I don't want to clutter up the thread with this sort of thing.

[Halbarad]

What Yakko said. If anything, it just makes Lynch All Lurkers even more important in the early phases of the game; those folks that are lurking hard enough to pick up a lot of these phantom votes should probably be gotten rid of before you GET to LYLO, since they'd be a liability by that point anyway.

That said,

##LOVE: Ran

Don't forget to pick up Chen's fish on the way home~

[Nitori]

Hm, Tom looks bad, but he was at least being aggressive with his play. I'll stick with Strago until he has a decent post up; it's been a relatively large amount of time since his last one, and there's no content from him yet. I'll relook at Tom when Strago comes back, although I kind of wish he would have just answered Otter's original question straight away and save us the smokescreen.

Also,

##LOVE: Nitori - I am an awesome brain of the moon/kappa warhead thing. <3~

[VySaika]

I'm finding myself in agreement with Nitori for now(as odd as that probably is to hear from me...). I'm a little concerned that the Tom/Otter thing has become a smokescreen for lurkers to hide behind.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Another game, another Day 1 revolving around our Aussie friends. This has gotten heated pretty fast, I must say. PHANTOM VOTING SYSTEM? This sounds terrible, I must say~

##VOTE: Tonfa

Biggest lurker at the moment, I need a vote out there somewhere in the day, and I am too sleepy to read this topic right now in all of its Ottery glory. Just gave it a cusory glance but it sounds kind of craaazy.

[AndrewRogue]

I'm going to step up and defend Tom very gently here by saying that, as bad as he can look, that is the way he ends up playing. Yes, it has problems, but he's getting jumped on for the stuff he always does, which... feels problematic to me. Does it seem scummy? Yeah. I've been on him in the past for it, but... mrgh. He's playing the same way he always does, which doesn't quite sync with scum.

So for now... bleh. I guess... pressure Strags. I'm not comfortable with QR's response regarding "I know I'm not scum," but it isn't enough to press at this point

##Unvote: QR
##Vote: Strago

[mia~]

...uh, wow. Tom is so over-reaction prone. o_O Nitori is right about people falling out of the eyes view due to this Tom/Otter thing. To me, Tom seemed to have dragged this out and I'm not really even thinking about anyone else but him at the moment. How does something like this = "productive" (to use his own word) for town? I feel similar to Hal. I'm not convinced he's scum, but his behavior is something else and 'cause of that, I would like to vote for Tom. His outbursts these past few pages were a distraction. But, on the other hand, it seems like we've got two types of attention draw, you either draw too much or draw none. Which one is more lethal than the other and who would be more worthwhile to pressure atm? Bleh.

[Sierra]

##Unvote: Oblivionknight

OK started talking, which was all I wanted out of him.

I'm hesitant to jump on the Tom train, for a couple reasons. Hal made some excellent reasons for voting Tom, which I do agree with. It can be used as a smokescreen...but that can work either way. My fear is that it makes an excellent excuse for scum to jump on a train without appearing suspicious. Almost every game I've seen with Tom has started out like this. The fact that he's acting no different than usual tells us what, exactly? In my experience, going after the most talkative person day one rarely turns out well.

I have to agree with Nitori's perspective here. The guy's being very vocal and getting other people talking. Somewhat acrimoniously, in fairness, but there are worse things to do on day one--like lurk incessantly. If you're voting for Tom saying his behavior's a distraction and lets the quiet folks slip through the cracks, well, fair enough. I can understand that. But why not prod the people who are doing exactly that at the same time. Is it that hard to do so?

I'm just wary of the whole endeavor right now. I will join the train if we've reached the end of the game-day without a better candidate, because I believe the deadline shouldn't have do the work for us and I feel my vote should reflect this policy. But there's close to a day to the deadline still, and right now I'd really rather nudge some lurkers into activity. So, Strago? Barely exists in this game (apart from making an admittedly amusing opening post, but that doesn't count for much). Got a couple votes on him already, but needs the pressure. Really, I feel more comfortable dropping my vote here than on what looks to me like the usual day one townie bitchfest.

##Vote: Strago

[Strago]

Okaaaay, I'm here. Unfortunately the girlfriend is visiting now before we go back to school, and so I've had no time today to actually play the dang game. I just caught up on the thread, but it's after midnight and I'm exhausted so I don't have much resembling coherent thinking at the moment. I guess I'll start by retracting a pointless jokevote, though.

##UNVOTE: Otter

I'll post something of substance in the morning, or at least try to get the time to do so, but for now? This whole Tom/Smodge/Otter thing looks like an absurd smokescreen likely generated by townies but certainly nice for any and all scum. As illogical as the "It's X, they always act scummy" seems... well, for feck's sake, it's Smodge and Tom. Come on. I'm sort of surprised that Tom's gotten about halfway to lynch already, really. As such, Hal/Yakko/Chisa/recent Tom voters look bad to me. Then again, Tom's rapid "okay fine I was wrong" post doesn't seem particularly in keeping with his usual Day 1 blowups, so I dunno if that's a scummy sort of a tell.

Really, though, I'm exhausted and a little drunk right now. I'll write more in the morning.

[Kilgamayan]

Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game! Vote Count:

Taishyr (0): Shale
Otter (1): Strago, Yakumo, Taishyr, OblivionKnight, Halbarad, Gatewalker, EvilTom
Shale (0): Yakumo
Yakumo (0): Gatewalker
Strago (4): Nitori, patchcloud, Gatewalker, AndrewRogue, El Cideon
Gatewalker (0): QuietRain
AndrewRogue (0): Sir Alex, Corwin, Chisa, Gatewalker, QuietRain, patchcloud
Nitori (0): El Cideon, Yakumo
Corwin (0): Halbarad, Carthrat
Smodge13 (2): EvilTom, Carthrat, Tonfa
El Cideon (0): Chisa
EvilTom (7): Smodge13, Ran, Otter, QuietRain, Corwin, Halbarad, Chisa, Yakumo
Chisa (0): Tonfa
Ciato (0): patchcloud
OblivionKnight (0): El Cideon
QuietRain (0): AndrewRogue
Tonfa (2): OblivionKnight, Ciato

Love Count:

Chen (2): Ran, Yukari
Strago (0): OblivionKnight
Everyone (1): Taishyr
Work-Interrupting Snow (1): El Cideon
Mokou (1): Kaguya
Ran (1): Yukari
Nitori (1): Nitori

With 21 people alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch.

~18 hours to go.

[Yakumo]

Just a minor thing, but could you please put the people alive/votes needed to lynch info into votecount posts?  It's easier than having to go back to the first page every time to find out.  Yes, I know, I'm lazy. >_>

[Yakumo]

Not to mention that, now that I look, first page doesn't even have votes needed to lynch. >_>  Though at least it has number alive so I can figure it out.

[Kilgamayan]

Er, sorry.

It's been way too long since I did this last. <_<

[Tonfa]

Mm, delicious timezones. Well, I was passed out for ...14? hours. Looks like we've gotten out of transitional phase between jokevoting and actual voting and into full paranoia mode in that time. Thoughts of the morning:

Strago: Has 4 votes on him for lurking. He gave an explanation for this that seems adequate and promised content when he's coherent so I see no need to further pressure him.

smodge/Dread Thomas: Mmph. This is ugly indeed, more so because of...

Otter/QR/Andrew: People who have been posting more than others, eyeballing it, but I really can't form an opinion on them because all discussion revolves around somdge and Tom.

Everyone else: Even less opinion.

Best course of action here is to cut the silver threads with which this argument is binding the discussion, and the easiest way for that is...

##Unvote:smodge13
##Vote:Dread Thomas

(who is currently at -3.)

[EvilTom]

-3? Hmm

Well I've generated conversation.. but now I need to get myself out of my hole that I've dug.

I recommend that everybody.. go after somebody who's lurking more. Going after me based on all the stuff here is rather shaky; I appreciate that it's day 1 and that's often how it works, but if you absolutely must lynch me, then I ask you at least wait until day 2. You can lynch me then if you like, hopefully after I've been of some assistance.

I've been lynched on day 1 a lot, because I'm loud. Personally, I thikn the quiet ones are more dangerous. I might say awkward things while being loud, but the quiet ones are impossible to catch. Anyway, if you actually think I'm scum, or I've been playing the way scum would, then go for it. But, if you think that scum are more likely to lurk in the shadows or only pay lip service to current arguments, then it really doesn't hurt to go after them for now. If I really am scum, then I'm likely to slip up soon, or just get lynched soon anyway.

I'll be going to bed soon, and I'm worried that there won't be enough time left for an effective role claim. There's no point roleclaiming with 20 minutes before time limit if nobody is around to change votes. That said, roleclaiming is a problem for me here. But we'll see.
I'll hang around a little longer and see if anyone offers an opinion.

It seems that Strago has gained some attention though, so it's not like I'm the only one up for execution.