Touhou Mafia - Main Topic

[Shale]

(And yes, I'm still leaning toward hanging QR. The posts saying a slow naive cop would be extra-gimped are still getting on my nerves.)

[QuietRain]

And, to clarify, the amusement for Tai being the Godfather comes from picking him for his unmemorableness rather than picking Andrew for his dogged determination to lynch me yesterday.  I spent a lot of time arguing with myself on whether I wanted to verify the obvious target or the one who most slipped under my radar.

I would not discount my sanity if I'm lynched/vigged.  Tai may still be town.  It seems an AWFULLY big chance Tai's taking if he's the Godfather.  But losing a cop is a good thing for scum, so I'm left with a WIFOM argument that I just can't settle on an answer for.

[Halbarad]

Two minor points while I'm cogitating and scouring:

Sikieiki's *stabs ZUN, pick a romanization method already* mirror is Touhou canon; it allows the yama (or judge, which is what Siki is) to see your past deeds, but is also very tiring. More info can be found in Sikieiki's Perfect Memento article here, for the curious. It's not remotely relevant to the discussion at hand, but since QR seemed unsure about the origin, there it is.

On roleblocking: my understanding is that roleblocks will suppress any and all roles, including miller - a miller would read as a normal townie if roleblocked and investigated on the same night. This is up to the mod's discretion of course, but that's my understanding of how it usually works.

Assuming a roleblocked miller Tai getting investigated by QR is about the largest stretch I can see being possible, though.

[OblivionKnight]

I...uh...

Quietrain...the claim...why?  You had an outstanding 1 vote on you, but no pressure yet.  I really don't think this is the best time in the world for a claim or anything, especially if you are a cop...

Re: the argument about Tom:

"We could have had two cops, but I didn't think if we did the other was him."

Why wouldn't you believe the other was him?  This is MAFIA.  For all we know, anyone here could be flipping Ricky Lake who is bullet-proof and can magically shoot missiles out of their ass each night for a free night kill (ignoring that Ricky Lake has nothing to do with Touhou).  Anyone can be anything.  Was Tom acting pretty bad?  A bit.  But that doesn't mean he wasn't a cop.  Super acted horribly in the FFT mafia, and he was a townie.  I acted pretty stupidly in NR, and got killed, and was a townie.  

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not getting WHY you didn't believe Tom from that line of thinking.    

As for Tai's counterclaim...mmm...so odd.  Not sure I have much to make out of it, but he did post less with the claim than QR, so that makes sense.

One of you is probably lying.  I don't want to make such a profound statement, but I think that's likely the case.  Of course, I could be wrong, but...this seems like the perfect situation to really, really hit town hard.  

Incidentally, is there anything about QR's character that has to do with mirrors?

My general impression of both is that they're townies, but...one of them, I think, isn't now.  Gah.  

Incidentally, roleclaims...is this really the time to do them?  Would they help clear things up?

Time to read this over.  Might need until tomorrow to really get a good post out of this.

Other thoughts:
Otter...I...can't remember much from you, and I'd really like to rectify that.  

PS: JESUS CHRIST NINJA'D BY 9 POSTS

[Taishyr]

Already said I wasn't roleblocked - my ability actually "worked" today, unlike night 1. If you're trusting me on miller, please do trust me on the not roleblocked, too, as it makes more coherent sense.

[Halbarad]

Bugger, screwed up the formatting on the Perfect Memento link. Try this: http://www.pooshlmer.com/touhouwiki/index.php/Perfect_Memento:_Sikieiki_Yamaxanadu

[OblivionKnight]

And ninja'd, all my answers received for my questions.

[Smodge13]

No i was wondering, if scum had maybe roleblocked Tai night 1 or 2, would it block the "Miller" part of his role, and make him show up as town to you.
i'm still not sure how all the mechanics work so i was suggesting a hypothetical.

[Ranmilia]

Wow, insanity.

First!  Patchcloud.  ARGHLE.

Second!  QR and Andrew.

I have suspected QR of being cop since seeing Tom's flip, and nearly every post she's made has increased my certainty.  She was the most adamant and logical about not believing Tom's claim, yet seemed to dance around her reason why, and her counterclaim debate with Andy just reinforced this.  This is why I haven't been on her case and was opposed to Andy vigging her.  I am inclined to believe she really is cop since I don't think a fake claimant would have dropped the hints she did.  If she's faking it, it's a heck of a job.  I agree on her claim timing, as we need to move fast today.  Tai = godfather or some other shenanigan seems very possible to me... especially since Andrew's also trying to get QR killed, and Andrew is ringing every alarm in my head right now. 

Yesterday, I wanted to scream at Andrew.  DON'T CLAIM NIGHTKILL PROTECTION!  NEVER do this!  A protection the scum know about is a useless protection!  Townies are (should be!) paranoid and never, ever have reason to do this.  As I've said before, he seemed to be fishing for cop counterclaimants... and I think he picked up on QR just as I did, and started arguing for her death. 

The simple solution to this and the one that I am (un)officially voting for at the moment is for Andrew to 'vig' Tai.  This will:
- Prove whether Tai is telling the truth
- Consequently prove whether QR is telling the truth
- Do the above without risking loss of cop, assuming QR is telling the truth
 
Aside from this debate, my lurker bells had started to ring on Hal, especially since he's outright claimed lurk as a playstyle, but it's paling in comparison to this debate.

[Smodge13]

Already said I wasn't roleblocked - my ability actually "worked" today, unlike night 1. If you're trusting me on miller, please do trust me on the not roleblocked, too, as it makes more coherent sense.

So it didn't work night 1?

It is possible then, that Tai was roleblocked Night 1, the same Night QR targetted Tai if she is a slowcop.

I'm keeping my vote QR because honestly, i don't believe you, however i am looking at lal possibilities even the 1/1000 ones.

[Smodge13]

All not lal, curse you lack of editing.

[Halbarad]

In my defense (not that I need one at the moment) there has been past debate on low content and low postcount. While I'm likely going to continue along the lines of the latter, I am doing my best to avoid the former. This entire week I'm working on software testing for work on a very tight schedule, so I'm very likely to only be posting evenings all week long - and I have a big pile of doujin editing that I also need to work on, so I can't spend the entire night on Mafia. (I'm a bit burned out on editing after three days of it, which is why I'm here tonight - that and this entire situation being rather attention-grabbing.)

That said, I agree with Alex's plan. My gut still reads positive on her (including her current arguments), and as it looks now we're likely going to wind up killing both QR and Tai today one way or the other. If we kill QR first and she's scum great, but if we kill Tai first and he's scum we haven't sacrificed a cop in the process. Pretty much everyone who's posted so far is convinced that one or the other is lying, and the "Tai first" method loses us less if we turn out to be wrong about him.

[Shale]

Smodge, she targeted him night 2.

[Taishyr]

I'd, uh, rather not die if I could avoid it, -especially- since your situation doesn't account for her being a naive cop - which is the only possibility I can see being true, since I know I'm Miller here.

My desire to not die is greater since my ability actually worked and I'd like a shot of using it, but frankly, if I thought my death would cinch anything about QR, I'd volunteer myself - one for one and all. But. I'm not seeing how my death resolves her role, nor hers, mine. Likelihoods increase, sure. But it proves nothing so far as I can tell, or I would have voted her as soon as I saw her claim she saw me as Town.

Also, QR apparently targeted me night 2, Smodge. She targeted Tom night 1. And I was told my ability "failed" (as expected, honestly); not that I was blocked or anything peculiar.

[Smodge13]

Smodge, she targeted him night 2.

Well she wouldn't be slowcop would she? doesn't a slow cop take 2 days to research?

And, to clarify, the amusement for Tai being the Godfather comes from picking him for his unmemorableness rather than picking Andrew for his dogged determination to lynch me yesterday.  I spent a lot of time arguing with myself on whether I wanted to verify the obvious target or the one who most slipped under my radar.

Yep definately think she is lying.

[Shale]

Did you even read her roleclaim? The power is standard cop investigations but she has to skip every third night, as a "cool-down" period.

[Smodge13]

ugh let me double check

[Kilgamayan]

Story time!

---

Remilia wheeled on Youmu and grinned wickedly. "So, half-pint. You were the first to accuse my friend of theft. Maybe you'd like to accuse me next?"

"You are the last person I would expect to make short jokes. Regardless, I will defend my honor against-"

Youmu stopped and stood still, staring straight ahead into apparently nothingness. Something's wrong...the wind has shifted in such a way that...no...

"Youmu? Are you okay?" Yuyuko floated over to her gardener.

Remilia spat on the ground and followed suit. "She's just scared stiff. I can't say I blame her, what with-"

"GET DOWN!"

Youmu grabbed Remilia and Yuyuko and flung them to the ground, with everyone else following suit. Youmu pulled out her Roukanken and assumed a defensive stance just as a lightning-fast slash of...something came out of nowhere and sliced through the crowd before vanishing again as soon as it had appeared, leaving nothing but silence behind it, aside from the grass ruslting in the small breeze.

Alice wwas the first to pick her face out of the dirt. "What the hell was that, and how did you know it was comi-HOLY HELL WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?"

"That...was...ugh...Blood of...Asura..." Youmu managed to spit out from between her clenched teeth, presumably so to ease the pain of the bloody stump that was once her shoulder. A few feet away lay Roukanken, still gripped by the hand whose arm was now completely detacted from its body - the remaining attached hand was stopping the spurting of blood as feebly as it could.

"YOUMU!" Yuyuko clopped over to her fallen servant, panic wrought on her face.

"Don't...worry...I'll...agh...live..."

With that, Youmu fainted. Eirin ran over to her and immediately picked her up and carried her into the shrine, shouting encouragement to the unconscious swordswoman. Alice followed along, holding the detacted arm.

Yuyuko glared at Remilia, a look of anger on her face the vampire had never seen. "You still think she's responsible? HUH?"

Remilia had to take a step back. "Well, I, oh, um."

---

Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game! Vote Count:

QuietRain (3): Smodge13, CarthRat, Yakumo
Tonfa (1): Halbarad
Corwin (0): Yakumo

Love Count:

Chen (1): Yukari

With 17 people still alive, 9 votes is a majority.

About 50.5 hours to go.

[Smodge13]

My mistake, i only saw the "slowcop" part.

Still don't believe her for the record.

[Carthrat]

Ok, my suspicons began with QR and I'd call her as the more likely scum for the time being, but I'm not gonna contest that viging Tai before QR may well be the safer result. I'm a mite piqued by Hal thinking it likely that we'll off both of them today, so I do want to ask him which he thinks is more likely to be scum.

If we take the roles at face value (i.e. the obvious route), then one of them has to be lying. We could debate shenanigans all day- we won't accomplish much. I'm more interested in the debates coming out of Tai and QR themselves rather than others.

And now, I depart!

[Yakumo]

Well, I am not really sure what to make of the NK.  I'm going to love reading the final reveal and get the details of all of these powers.  But, onward to the important thing of the day.

We'll need to narrow down a target for Andrew's ability very, very quickly.  We need as much time as possible to get a tgood consensus on our lynch today.  So, I'm going to see if I can take myself out of the running with a roleclaim as Andy said I was his main target.  And I hope this explains my behavior over the last couple of days at least somewhat.  I am a variant of slow cop.  Every third day, because two days of using my mirror (I don't know any of this Touhou stuff, I'm sure that makes sense to someone, using my mirror to know about people), it's exhausting and I have to wait a day to use it again.  I use it two days and my third day I have to skip, so that means no info for me tonight.

Now, that's part of the reason I did not believe Tom.  Also, I just didn't flipping believe him.  We could have had two cops, but I didn't think if we did the other was him.  I was going to investigate someone else because I thought he was going to by lynched, but when he survived, I decided to cop him that night and got townie for all the good it did me with him then getting night killed.

Now Day 2 started with a lot of people coming down on on my views on Tom and it's just really hard to justify why I didn't believe him without revealing the whole of the WHY.  So, yes, I got a bit defensive yesterday about it.  Not my smartest move, no. 

Last night I investigated Tai and got Town.

Actually, on the note of the roleclaim.  Could you clarify, please?  What do you get when you investigate the two nights?  We already know characters, so that's out.  You say here that you use the mirror two days and then have to skip one.  What was the first reading?

[Shale]

I decided to cop him that night and got townie for all the good it did me

[Yakumo]

...wow, I read good. >_>

[Halbarad]

Ok, my suspicons began with QR and I'd call her as the more likely scum for the time being, but I'm not gonna contest that viging Tai before QR may well be the safer result. I'm a mite piqued by Hal thinking it likely that we'll off both of them today, so I do want to ask him which he thinks is more likely to be scum.

I didn't put out my entire string of thought there; most people are pretty sure one of the two is scum at this point, so the only way to be sure is to off both. If we guess wrong on the first, we'll likely be killing the second as well; obviously, if we get the first one right, we'd likely turn our sights elsewhere. Apologies for not spelling it out entirely.

Honestly, I think Tai is more likely to be scum. If we are correct and one of the two is scum? Tai's already as much as said he's not a cop, and unless his role is pretty damn awesome losing a townie for a scum seems a fair trade to me. If it was my head on the block I'd say "I'd rather it didn't have to be me, but if it's the best way to do it go ahead" - that's thinking of what's best for the town in the long run, rather than just what's best for myself.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Okay, did someone say that Tai was roleblocked last night?