Author Topic: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic (Read 125975 times)

Shale · « **Reply #650 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:29:48 PM »

That should be "Supercop (who didn't know she was one) + Miller".

AndrewRogue · « **Reply #651 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:32:12 PM »

On an unrelated note, since I did go out and make a general apology to QR earlier...

This is a game, folks. It is frustrating, it requires verbal menuvering, which can often result in frustration and what have you because you have to go at people hard. Scum are going to be acting like townies. That's the point. Hell, I won as scum before because I was nice, polite and helpful. Frustration at the game and the players is natural. It is gonna happen, just like in anything where you are trying to win.

So please, remember. It is a game. It is okay to be frustrated and have a little vitrol in your posts (I, for example, naturally get aggressive and try to dismantle folks when I'm under pressure). But if it is going to start being taken personally... step back for a few minutes, take a few deep breaths and relax.

Anyhow. I return you to regularly scheduled game while I mull over this turn of events.

Halbarad · « **Reply #652 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:34:29 PM »

...yeah, that's exactly why I would have preferred to kill Tai rather than QR. Nevertheless, the flip is enough to settle my suspicions about Tai's claim for now, as it fits all of the available facts and Tai's story does fit with it.

With that said, my primary suspects at the moment are the lurkers (Nitori, Ciato, and Tonfa being the highest on this list) and Alex, who's acted extremely strange about this entire claim game in general. Leaving my vote on Tonfa for now, although I could definitely see shifting over to an Alex train if it forms - some of his recent arguments have been really, really stretched.

That said? I'd actually say to go with Ciato's point - we need to nail down our lurkers, and sooner rather than later - thus my vote remaining on Tonfa.

Yakumo · « **Reply #653 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:37:52 PM »

Alright, every role that comes out just makes me care less and less here. Are these things really what you're used to, Kilga? Remind me not to go play there. >_>

At least that appears to leave Tai clear I guess.

Shale · « **Reply #654 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:38:13 PM »

Quote

Nevertheless, the flip is enough to settle my suspicions about Tai's claim for now, as it fits all of the available facts and Tai's story does fit with it.

No, it confirms Tai as town, full stop. A Supercop isn't fooled by Miller/Godfather roles - QR would have gotten accurate results for anyone she investigated. The fact that she wasn't told this is making me seriously consider dropping out of the game because of what it says about the modding, but that's no the point I'm trying to make here.

OblivionKnight · « **Reply #655 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:39:42 PM »

...

...

...

##Kill: Kilgamayan

Anyway...this might help. God knows we've sufferred like hell already.

I am Alice Margatroid.

...

...

Oh, you already know my name. Right!

My power at night is to spy on people and see who they target, and who targets them.

Night 1: I watched Evil Tom. I'm glad I did, because, while he did nothing, 3 people went after him. They were:
Quietrain
Corwin
Nitori

Since QR is dead and...town...one of Corwin or Nitori are likely scum.

Assuming that, you know, Kilga isn't pulling something crazy on us. One of them had to go to kill him that night.

Night 2: I investigated Andrew. I got nothing: basically, failure. So something DID go down with Andy on night 2. So...make of that what you will.

Now, as for why I'm certain Tai is town (besides...uh...now? >_>):

I lose my power if Marisa dies (I cleared this with the mod already, so no modkill for revealing this). I am town. I highly, highly doubted that a scum+town combination would exist. Thus, I had a high chance to believe that Tai was town, and a Miller for Marisa makes SO MUCH SENSE given the flavour text and background.

So yes, that's hopefully a helpful contribution. My focus (when I return from a slew of meetings) will be on Nitori and Corwin. We lost our cop, but we know what she saw, and we can believe it. So we have some info to go on. We can do this.

##Love: QuietRain I'm sorry. Your death will not be in vain!

AndrewRogue · « **Reply #656 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:41:07 PM »

Killing Tai wouldn't have resolved anything, in this case, would it have, Hal? We would have (theoretically here) flipped him as Miller, and QR would have been toast afterwards.

OblivionKnight · « **Reply #657 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:45:26 PM »

Which is another reason why I was pushing QR as the kill. We lost the cop, but we have people cleared, and concrete people to go after. It's a start.

Nitori · « **Reply #658 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:48:17 PM »

.......OK, I know where my vote is going.

##VOTE: Corwin

Why? I'm the doctor, or at least I was TOLD I was the doctor. I protected EvilTom night 1 and AndrewRogue night 2, although given what Andy just said, I highly suspect that I am actually a "Quack" doctor; a doctor that tries to kill people instead of protect them, since there's really no way to explain how he was targetted for a second NK outside of a SK, which would have required the SK to have been stopped somehow on Day 1.

When I did my protection on Night 2, I was under the impression that the scum used a docbuster on Night 1, but as you can see above, that doesn't explain how Andy was explicitly told he dodged a 'kill'; that's how I came to the conclusion that I am indeed a Quack doctor (and thus basically a Vig for game terms). With OK's claim, that leaves Corwin as the scum. Also...

##TURNINTOSNOW: Kilgamayan

You. Are. Crazy.

Halbarad · « **Reply #659 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:53:30 PM »

Quote from: AndrewRogue on January 22, 2008, 10:41:07 PM

Killing Tai wouldn't have resolved anything, in this case, would it have, Hal? We would have (theoretically here) flipped him as Miller, and QR would have been toast afterwards.

It's mostly due to the nature of the flip. If QR hadn't specifically flipped as a supercop, would people be screaming for Tai's head at this point?

That's admittedly wandering off into the realms of supposition which isn't productive for anyone, but. Most of the scenarios that pretty much everyone had in mind consisted of one of the two being a liar, with no clear way of telling which one it was. There were a couple of scenarios (including supercop) that were floated that could clear both, but most people seemed to consider those unlikely at best. I'm mostly irritated that we killed a cop after claim, even after all of the screaming about "don't kill a cop claim!" Yeah, we probably did get the best possible result of information out of this flip - Tai's death wouldn't have cleared QR.

Call it mild irritation at the flipflopping on the part of town as a whole - from "don't ever kill a cop claim!" on Tom to "one of these two is probably lying, so let's lynch the cop first!"

OblivionKnight · « **Reply #660 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:56:01 PM »

Nitori:

Is it possible that your "protection" as a quack doc killed Tom?

Nitori · « **Reply #661 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:57:58 PM »

If I am a quack doc, then Tom would have been killed twice over, by both myself and Corwin. Tom would have had no doctor protection in this instance.

Shale · « **Reply #662 on:** January 22, 2008, 11:05:54 PM »

Unless scum didn't target him at all, and your "protection" was the only thing killing him.

In this fuckin' game? I'd buy it.

Nitori · « **Reply #663 on:** January 22, 2008, 11:08:25 PM »

You're...right. But then there should have been two deaths, unless the scum was somehow stopped on night 1. That's the only other scenario I can see here.

Shale · « **Reply #664 on:** January 22, 2008, 11:10:18 PM »

Yeah, the scum getting stopped is implicit there. And the most likely scenario is still that one of you and Corwin is scum. It's just that following the best logic seems to lead us into a flaming brick wall lined with spikes in this game.

Shale · « **Reply #665 on:** January 22, 2008, 11:16:26 PM »

On the plus side, at least? If Nitori is a Quack, we have yet nother killing power on our side. It's like Suikomafia all over again, only we're not allowed to roleclaim and the mod lies to us!

Ranmilia · « **Reply #666 on:** January 22, 2008, 11:36:52 PM »

Wakey wakey and... what.

Okay! So, supercop. This makes me trust Tai a lot more, obviously. And be angry about her death. Grah. This indeed points to them both being town.

Wooow NOW people jump on lynch trains for single statements, huh? Even though I was using it as rhetoric for Andy's self-defending playstyle and even said in the sentence in question that I can see not actually killing himself, since, yknow, nobody really would? The point is that he's too self-defensive.

Andrew should be lynch today for reasons that I've gone over several times now. He questions the claim fishing and QR stuff. Him sniping back and forth with QR day 2 on this issue is where the entire case on her came from.

Nitori.

ARGLEBWA WHAT? You're claiming doc over this? If you actually are doc, whyyyy?

I agree that one of Cor and Nitori is likely scum. Which one, though, I have no idea. "Ineffective doctor," with people speculating killing doctor, is not a particularly convincing claim to me, but be that as it may.

VySaika · « **Reply #667 on:** January 22, 2008, 11:51:47 PM »

Supercop. Frikkin SUPERCOP. And she didn't know this? >_<

Well, that clears Tai as a townie flat out. Nice to have confirmed town at least. It's...something, y'know?

Anyway, I've got cleaning, shopping, laundry and alot of other things to do that I've been neglecting in favor of being on the comp all morning, so I'm going to go do those now and mull over this.

For now, a pressure vote on ##Vote:Corwin. The kappa explains what he was doing on the night Dread Thomas died. What were you doing then, hmm?

Yakumo · « **Reply #668 on:** January 23, 2008, 12:29:31 AM »

##Vote: Corwin

I don't really understand Nitori's explanation(I understand -what-, but not -why-), but Corwin hasn't felt right to me all game

Yakumo · « **Reply #669 on:** January 23, 2008, 12:31:44 AM »

Bah, misclick. Anyway, Corwin hasn't felt right to me all game, with the attacks on Andrew going overboard and whatever the hell caught my attention in the first place. On the other hand, Nitori. I understand your protecting Tom, but why did you try and protect Andrew when he'd all but said he was immune to nightkills?

Nitori · « **Reply #670 on:** January 23, 2008, 12:39:37 AM »

He didn't outright say it, he just said that "he was certain he'd be OK", or that's how I read it. I decided that since daykill is such a strong ability, that I'd protect him to *ensure* that he'd see the next day. I really didn't have a better idea on who to target, which is why I did that. Then Andy goes and says he dodged a NK attempt, which led me to believe quack.

Carthrat · « **Reply #671 on:** January 23, 2008, 12:45:29 AM »

Re: Ciato: The thing is... Mafia isn't what I'd call a nice game. Any form of emotional response can be easily faked. How am I supposed to respond to these things? "Oh, it's ok, you can have outbursts like this~/It's ok, slipping up over yourself is fine because you're new" just seems really wrong to me. I personally don't want to be labelled as someone easily swayed by such in future games, as there *is* a mafia metagame here as well (and it's stupid to deny it). There's also the point that, well, if a more experienced player reacted like Mia did, I'd be on them like a shot, you know? I don't think I really discriminate between new people and experienced people or anything like that so much as things just turn out that way. I will grant that I probably need to rethink the way I play, given my present success at fingering scum, but... part of that has to come from the rest of town as well, you know? When people react like she does- or like Tom does, and has- everything screams at me to vote for them.

People really have to know what they're getting into here. The fact that the game may well be stressful should say a lot- it's based on deception and interrogation. If you can't adjust to that, I don't know what to say.

LaL. We can agree on that at least. Let's see. There's you, but...

<->

Given OK's watcher status I think we may as well be looking at Nitori/Corwin for the remainder of the day. Between Nitori and Cor, Nitori has been (by far, I think) the more lurkerish. I know Corwin's work schedule keeps him out of the loop for a fair portion of each day, but he makes pretty sizable posts each time. On the other hand, Nitori has a doc claim... let's echo Alex here, *Why*? And indeed, I must second Yakumo's question of 'why protect Andy when he claims immunity to NKs' or close enough. I don't feel I can really make a decision between these two just yet in any case.

Edit: I am Ninja'd by Nitori, who answers my/Yak's question pretty much as expected. If you're a quack we *should* be able to test that tonight, assuming you don't get lynched.

Otter · « **Reply #672 on:** January 23, 2008, 12:54:34 AM »

##UNVOTE: Andrew

As nasty as it is losing a supercop, we got two confirmed townies out of that daykill: Andrew and Tai. Now we're getting somewhere.

Either OK's a clever liar, or we've almost certainly got scum in Corwin/Nitori. My instinct was to say it was Nitori, since he's said so little that's stuck in my mind, but then he came out with the (rather weird) quack doctor claim... which didn't really assure me of much of anything, so ##VOTE: Nitori for now. I want to hear Corwin's response, yes, but he's gotten votes for pressure already and he'll talk when he gets here.

Yakumo · « **Reply #673 on:** January 23, 2008, 12:57:01 AM »

Why does that make Andrew a confirmed townie, Otter? Yes, he used his daykill the way we wanted. No, this doesn't prove he's town. Unless I missed something...?

Ranmilia · « **Reply #674 on:** January 23, 2008, 01:05:03 AM »

Uhhhhh what Yakko said? If anything we have OK apparently confirming Andrew's night action immunity and Nitori claiming to have acted on him for good or ill. I'm still pretty sold on Andrew today, Nitori/Cor is apparently a 50/50 and I'm more confident than 50% on Andrew being not-town.

News:

Author Topic: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic (Read 125975 times)