Touhou Mafia - Main Topic

[Taishyr]

Yeah, that's why I'm inclined to believe Nitori is either quackdoc or scummers, no other real options available.

[Shale]

Wait, the survivors would have won if they lived to scum victory? I thought they had to survive to a town win specifically (since a scum win at majority implies that they can now lynch everybody who isn't them). Huh, that is a bit different.

[Ranmilia]

Actually, you're right.  Wait... yeah, you're right.  I did say they could only win with the town.  It was a really stupid role idea in retrospect. 

[Sierra]

Bleugh. Work today was shitastic and I need food/some form of comic relief before I can tackle this mess (nine pages again. Aaarrrgh). First off, ##Unvote: Corwin, because it looks like a lot's happened today that I need to take into consideration before condemning anyone (just glancing at the most recent count...Nitori voted for himself? What the hell?) Will be back in an hour or two when my brain's working properly.

For now, ##Love: Everyone, because it sounds like we need it.

EDIT: Three posts just while I was typing this little blurb. >.<

[Yakumo]

I feel I do need to point out the fact that Corwin hasn't said what message he got.  And if we trust OK, we can test him.  He didn't give us anything too specific either, yet.

[Ranmilia]

Intriguing.  Test what how?

[Shale]

Uh...I guess he means tell Cor who to doc and have OK watch him. Which could work, I guess, if both of them targeted OK (any other target would be a quick ticket to Watcher death if OK is town), but that means trusting OK's non-scuminess implicitly.

[Shale]

And even so, that's by no means foolproof. Scum!Cor could have a non-killing ability he could use on OK, or he could kill OK and claim docbust, or he could claim being roleblocked, or a bunch of other stuff.

[Ranmilia]

Eee... yeah, what Shale said.  It's hoping for too much to think that scum won't be able to fake or interfere with that somehow.  Telling the scum who the investigative roles are going to target = BAD PLAN thanks.  OK should use his best judgment in choosing his target and not tell us or agree to any such plans beforehand. 

[Nitori]

Re: Andy. He did act a bit weird, but I don't think it's to the extent that Alex sees it as, though. Yes, he pushed QR to death, but so did everyone else, I suppose. I'd vote to lynch him if it came down to it, though, since I can still see Alex's point, I'm just not '99% certain' of it. Basically, I'm slightly suspicious but not to the huge extent that Alex is.

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The main question that I would ask my detractors right now, is what they think may have happened on night 2. The reason why I claimed quack is precisely since there were two NK attempts, and based on my own actions, that is how I came to that conclusion; I don't think it's illogical, or nonsensical. I'm fairly  certain of at least one thing; my ability does not work the way it is supposed to.

[Yakumo]

That's not it.  OK claimed he targeted Andy also.  If Corwin's power failed, he may have been told why, as would OK.  So, ask Corwin what he was told, as much as he can say, and ask OK if it adds up.

[Yakumo]

I should also ask Andy if those two aspects of his power are as different as I'm thinking, the one-shot evasion and the night action immunity.

[Taishyr]

Re: Andy. He did act a bit weird, but I don't think it's to the extent that Alex sees it as, though. Yes, he pushed QR to death, but so did everyone else, I suppose. I'd vote to lynch him if it came down to it, though, since I can still see Alex's point, I'm just not '99% certain' of it. Basically, I'm slightly suspicious but not to the huge extent that Alex is.

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The main question that I would ask my detractors right now, is what they think may have happened on night 2. The reason why I claimed quack is precisely since there were two NK attempts, and based on my own actions, that is how I came to that conclusion; I don't think it's illogical, or nonsensical. I'm fairly  certain of at least one thing; my ability does not work the way it is supposed to.

This is why my vote hasn't landed yet. My response is twofold - either Chisa sacked herself to save Andrew, or you aimed for Andrew and Chisa got third partied/vigg'd/scumm'd. And that's what I'm trying to work through, and why I think all three may be town and scum aimed for Chisa night 2... except what happened night 1, then? (Do not reply to this as if I am asking for a roleclaim or something. Bulletproof I wouldn't mind hearing because scum would know they hit that night 1 anyway especially at this point but don't bring up the solution if you know it in general right now. No new targets for scum.)

[Taishyr]

And since I feel literally on the boundaries of passing out, quicksummary of longpost is long:

If I had to guess, I'd say Nitori was scum, but I've been burned on this too much before. However, to put money where my mouth is,

##Vote: Nitori

I don't like it, but it makes the most sense considering day 1. Chisa sacking herself to keep dayvig potential alive makes the most sense to me, here.

Other people:

I want to hear more from Otter. I always want to hear more from Otter. Same from Ciato, I keep forget she's playing. These two are fairly high up my suspicion list.

Gate... same, vaguely. Not as 100% on this, but... mrgh, I dunno here.

Yakumo and El Cid I'm just vaguely weirded out by, I have no read on Smodge at all this game and keep forgetting he's playing, which isn't good at all.

Alex and Rat give my gut twitches, but both are, on a main read, solid so I can't really say my gut is well-founded here. I hope.

...Yeah, a lot of suspicions, but in case the day ends and I die in my sleep and all, ze. Check Yakumo's mid day 1/late day 2, El Cid in general, Rat's content, Alex's... vote pattern is what I think is triggering it for me, as much as it's not bad objectively at all. Gate's content, everything about Otter, same for Ciato, and I hope to wake up before night falls.

[Shale]

With "test" in that light...well, that would require both of them being active before deadline, which IIRC is midnight EST. That seems unlikely for Corwin.

[Ranmilia]

Nitori:  I think there was only one non-town kill attempt on night 2.  With four people all claiming it, I believe Andrew's got some brand of night action immunity and/or kill protection.  Chisa was standing out as one of the main town suspects at that point, but nobody had taken any wild stances on him, so I don't see scum killing him.  That leads to his kill being the result of a townie vig... or his own ability, sacrificing himself for someone else, if Martyr means something like my role from WoT. 

Sacrificing himself for whom is not an answerable question (though the possibility of Andrew presents itself as quite likely - assuming he's truthful about the 50% evasion, would he get the same message about a blocked attempt on his life if he failed the check but was saved by Chisa?  Or, since we know he says he was 50% bluffing, he could have been 100% bluffing and have no evasion at all and is just using the unexpected Chisalvation to explain it working once and then vanishing.  Paranoia!) 

All told I do believe there was a kill attempt on Andrew, which most likely came from either Nitori or Cor, and that whoever it did come from is non-town aligned.  The most reasonable alternative (though still highly unlikely) is that one of Nitori/Cor really *is* a killdoc, Andrew evaded them, and Chisa died to save some other player from scumkill.

[OblivionKnight]

Just posting to let everyone know I'm here.  Ugh...I have to rewrite an entire case presentation because the patient backed out on me, and I just got back from rotation.  I'm going to attempt to blaze through everything, and get back to you guys by 9 or so.  

In regards to some of the stuff I read (forgive me if it's repeated):

I'll choose my own person to look at tonight.  Like has been mentioned, by stating it out loud, it puts me and everyone else by extension at huge risk for getting blasted.

Re: My roleclaim for Rat: Perhaps a slight bit of panic, but overall, I felt like it can help a lot.  It clears us two people highly likely, and allows us to narrow down suspicions on two people that have had some issues on them earlier.  LaL is still a good idea, though, so we can't forget Otter or...people so forgettable in speaking I've forgotten them already!   Oh yeah, smodge13 is falling through the lines a bit and then kind of coming back.  

Right now, I think my vote will go towards Nitori - while this game is kind of crazy (which makes sense - I've actually enjoyed it, death threats being for fun mostly), I don't...I can't see how a some of that fits in.  Quack doc...might make sense role-wise and character-wise, but...Something doesn't feel like it's adding up.  I don't know...I'm not getting a strong read on Nitori or Corwin as scum at the moment, but Nitori's claim seems odd.  I saw 3 people act on Tom - Quietrain to investigate, Nitori to doc, Corwin to do...docing.  If Corwin was protecting him, and Nitori's doc power overrides protection...that doesn't sound right.  (Incidentally, what are Impossible Requests in Touhouage?)  Then night 2...I saw failure.  Both say they did something to Andrew that night, again, both claiming protection.  It's possible both are town, I suppose, and the quack doc effect did work over the impossible request...but...  I was told that my power failed (don't want to reveal more, lest I get killed for quoting).  I don't think I was roleblocked, from the way I understand the text...so I'm assuming a doc effect happened or Andy did have his evasion hax going on...

If Andrew had a night action immunity, then docing or anything else wouldn't work.  Gah.

Speaking of Andrew, if he's going to go down to modkill, when will we know that, almighty Kilga?

Anyway...vote will be coming later.  

[Kilgamayan]

I want to provide ample time to provide a replacement. I'm not sure how long exactly that will be, but I assure you I won't be modkilling him today.

[Kilgamayan]

NOTICE: AndrewRogue will be replaced by Excal. Many thanks to Excal for agreeing to undertake such an endeavour!

[Shale]

So much for that, then.

##Unvote Ciato - she needs to TALK MOAR, but she's also not the flavor of the day. Vote coming before long.

[Excal]

Alright...  only fifty pages to dig through...  How hard can this be?

Anyways, yeah, just confirming that I'm in now, and will be doing my best to catch up and contribute.

[Luther Lansfeld]

IT'S EXCAL! *glomps*

[Yakumo]

Uh, seriously Ciato.  You're under fire for lurking in here, then you come in and do something like that?  All that does is show that you're paying attention but not participating. <_<

[Kilgamayan]

Notice #2: The first page finally has a handy links section!

If I forget to update it, feel free to kick me until I do; I'm not used to doing it.

[Otter]

I keep getting called out as a lurker with people wanting to know my opinions.  Could these people tell me what exactly they want to hear about?  Maybe I haven't been the most active townie over the course of the game, but today, at least, I feel like I've been a pretty strong presence and I'd ask some of these people to read back over my posts from the last few pages.  I've been hashing over today's situation since last night, with an update following Corwin's explanation, and I think I've made my perspective fairly clear.  I'm voting for Nitori because I think he's most likely to be non-town.  His latest post doesn't satisfy me at all either, so I'll go into that now.

The main question that I would ask my detractors right now, is what they think may have happened on night 2. The reason why I claimed quack is precisely since there were two NK attempts, and based on my own actions, that is how I came to that conclusion; I don't think it's illogical, or nonsensical. I'm fairly  certain of at least one thing; my ability does not work the way it is supposed to.

Oh, really?  There were two NK attempts?  How would YOU be so sure of that?  Only one person died.  Oh yeah, Andy claims that he dodged a kill.  That guarantees that it's true, right?  Yeah-huh.  If you're a townie, why are you making assumptions like "there were two NK attempts" right now?  I think you're either lying outright, or you're a scum who KNOWS there were two NK attempts (possibly because you aimed for someone, failed to make the kill, and someone else died instead that night).  Either way, you keep re-earning my vote.

What may have happened on night 2?  Maybe scum made their nightkill successfully and that was it.  Andrew's words don't make it a fact that he got targeted.  This doesn't preclude you from being scum at all.  Or maybe scum were unsuccessful, someone died anyway, and so scum are trying to wring all the helpful roleclaims they can out of the situation to try and find out who blocked them and who made the other kill.  That'd explain why you act so sure that there were two NK attempts -- your unsuccessful scum NK and the other unknown successful one.  I'm obviously not sure myself exactly what happened, but you're acting like there's no reasonable explanation in which you're scum, while every reasonable explanation I find points to you pretty heavily.