Touhou Mafia - Main Topic

[Taishyr]

Mmm, fascinating, I'm sure you did your part Gate but I really do want to thank Kaguya-san for protecting me last night, the dollface that she is~

[Shale]

.....I'm going to go ahead and take that as a "yes," then.

[Taishyr]

Mmm? Oh, my results? Profoundly nothing for the person I chose to watch whose identity I'll protect for now, and I failed to acquire another ability. So eh, dry bones there.

[Shale]

Huh. Can you explain how you know it was Cor who kept the kill off you, then? Sorry if I'm prodding at your role too much, but you're saying you've got proof positive of an attempt on your life last night, and we've got one person volunteering that he acted on you then, with you seeming pretty certain that it was a different player who made the save. If I'm reading you right, that puts Gate on the suspect list, so I'd like to be sure that I am.

(Also, even if I'm 100% correct on this, let's not jump to any conclusions about who's scum based on roleclaims. That hasn't worked out so well lately.)

[Taishyr]

Gate likely helped protect me, but the truth hit me, how to say it? Like a rock, ze. I'd say more, except threat of mod. I'm working something out and reading through Alex's posts, so give me a moment.

[Shale]

...hah. I get you. Okay, then.

[Carthrat]

I think the obvious question here is *who killed Ran*? It seems relatively safe to say that there is definately a vig or SK running around- I'm leaning towards vig due to the lack of an extra night 1 kill. It's probably better to not roleclaim this, though.

Nitori flipped mad scientist. There's killdoc connotations there if I ever saw them, so... Cor looks a bit better, OK looks kinda worse. Cor very well could have tried to protect Tom, perhaps blocked *one* kill, and on the same night, OK and a possible mystery scum could've watched and killed Tom. It'd make some sense, because Cor can presumably only block one attempt to kill a day. This is.. rather presumptious, but it was what I was thinking yesterday, too.

ROLECLAIMS DON'T STOP COMING what. Gate is a oneshot bodyguard? Doesn't that role usually *die* on impact? I can see why you'd protect Tai, though.

Tai is... hmm. I'm gonna wait a bit to see what happens, but SHUT UP, SHALE. Really. Let's see what people have to say first, and not take up pestering Tai until he's got some responses. Gotta go through all of Alex's stuff as well anyway.

[Taishyr]

Don't be mean to poor Yuka! Curiousity's understandable, though at this rate she can become my pet flowerlolcat. ^_^ Curiousity kills sometimes, ze.

[VySaika]

Did my part, huh? Well, you seem to know something I don't man, so horray if I did help and eh, it was worth a shot if I didn't.

Cor: and yeah, I was kinda expecting to die, actually. Which is why I'm not entirely certain it was my protection that saved him, y'know?

[Taishyr]

I think you meant to direct that comment to Carthrat, idly. >_>

[VySaika]

Yes, I did. You have NO IDEA how often I have to stop, delete Cor and retype Rat and vice versa when talking in Elysium. I do the same thing with Andy and El Cid and have no idea why. >_<

[Shale]

Gah, sorry. I realize the idiotic role restriction isn't his fault, but he's the one who started dancing around the issue first.

Anyway. Bodyguard has all kinds of wacky variants, from being another name for a standard doc to a deathvig guardian type. Who knows what we're looking at here. Well, Gate might! Except that given past precedent, I wouldn't bet on it.

[VySaika]

No, I don't know, sadly. All I know is that I'm a oneshot bodyguard. A bodyguard because China is a, y'know, guard. And oneshot because she's generally useless. <_<;

[Taishyr]

It's Kaguya and Mokou.

Black and white.

Ice queen and tsundere.

Two sides of the same demented coin. Really, it shouldn't surprise you that you make that mistake, dude.

Also, yeah, sorry Shale. I hope to make everything clear, but I badly need to check Ran's posts first.

[Carthrat]

It surprises me. I hardly talk to Gate in #elysium. o-o

[VySaika]

I hardly talk at all in elysium. Just when I do, I generally almost get someone's name wrong, between Cor, El Cid and occasionally you. It's annoying, but an unconcious thing I can't seem to break. Ask anyone in DL chat about me and "teh", for more examples of Gate Can't Type Straight. >_<

[Excal]

Well now, isn't that interesting.  I guess it's nice to know that the guy who was after my predecessor was, in fact, crooked as a bent nail.  I see I need to go over exactly what I've been told.  I'd say I also need to go over what Alex said, but I need to go over what everyone said.

Finally, as to Alex's final question.  I suppose you and your companions would like to know exactly how my power works, and whether my claim or Andy's is truth.  I hope you don't mind if I say that I fail to see how further clarification helps town, but can easily see how it would help scum.  Not to mention that I don't really feel inclined to give useful answers to your kind.

So, unless there's further questions for me, I have some reading to do.

[Otter]

...Wait up, now.

Well, I don't know about Corwin, but I know one person who was protecting Tai last night. Which would be me, a oneshot bodyguard. I sat on that and didn't use it nights 1 and 2, but with a confirmed townie in the mix on night 3, I figured this was as good a time as any to throw it down. And now that my 1 shot is gone, there's no sense in not claiming.

So, yeah, there it is. Now I didn't get any information on whether or not my guard was successful, but with Tai being informed a kill was blocked I can only suppose it was. And with dead scum instead of dead town, I guess I could have even been a oneshot elite bodyguard and Alex tried to make the kill. That would be news to me, but I guess it fits the evidence.

First bold part first.  There's no sense in not claiming now?  You mean, other than the fact that claiming serves no purpose (you're not in any danger) and gives scum useful info on who ought to be targeted and who ought to be set aside for later?  There's a reason claiming vanilla for no reason is less than preferable for town -- it helps scum out with their decision making.  You say there's no point in NOT claiming, but why ARE you claiming, again?

Second bold part second.  You're not sure what your power does?  Could be bodyguard, could be elite bodyguard, who knows?  Not you!  Oh and hey you're not dead, which also seems like a mystery to you; you say you were expecting to die.  Are you telling us that the mod gave you absolutely no explanation about what your power does or the effects it will have, and left it all up to your imagination?  I kind of find that hard to believe.

Combine this sudden extreme fishiness with the consistently low content I've been seeing from Gate and I've got a pretty major suspect.  Cor and Andy need to post too, because they're on the list, but for now:

##VOTE: Gatewalker

[Taishyr]

...you're saying this, Otter, in a game with a slow post-restricted supercop, a person who was told he was a doc who was actually a vig, and multiple people with modkill restrictions? Uhhhhhh geez thanks for jumping up my list of suspicions even more.

[Excal]

Otter, you need to remember that I am Andy now, and I just posted.  If you want content, you'll need to wait.

[Otter]

Er, not Andy, Excal, right.  Sorry.

Tai: just because there've been other examples of bastard modding doesn't mean everyone should start assuming that their private role PMs were full of lies.  I want to hear specifics from Gate.  Was he TOLD that he'd die if he protected someone?  Was he not told one way or another?  I have a hard time believing that Kilga PM'd him with "You're a bodyguard!  What does that mean?  Select targets at night and find out!"  Even more importantly, the claim stinks to me because there's no reason for it and it harms the town for no reason for him to come forward at this point if he's actually innocent.

[Taishyr]

Uh, he could have also been told "You're bodyguard, you have oneshot protect, have fun" and not have the, you know, elite part mentioned. Just like the super part of supercop and the vig part of the doc role. ...wait, vig part of doc? ...yeah, uh, that's enough to convince me there's some definite role foolery going on, be it overt (Hi, I'm miller!) or subvert (yeah, uh, you see everything, but I'm not telling you that). To decry him as "you shouldn't presume this" we we have a -very definite- trend line of this sort of thing? Yeah, uh. I can't see doing that.

Also, same sort of thing people jumped on QR for initially before I, uh, got her killed - the claim timing. -_- yeah okay moving on. Rubs me very wrong to press on this in that regard, Otter. More mountains of molehills, mayhaps?

Still reading Alex.

[Carthrat]

His claim WAS extraordinarily wishy-washy. I do think that he would have stated with definitiveness what he thought would happen *if he had that role*. And Otter's right. For almost all game people have been screaming to NOT ROLECLAIM because it gives stuff away to scum. It's just an all-around bad idea.

CorRat: and yeah, I was kinda expecting to die, actually. Which is why I'm not entirely certain it was my protection that saved him, y'know?

Was this told to you in your role or not? Why would you expect to die if it *wasn't*, and why didn't you mention this immediately if it *was*?

[Shale]

I'm mainly playing devil's advocate here, but we just mislynched two people because they claimed exactly what they thought their roles were without reckoning with the possibility that their role PMs were, in fact, a pack of lies. I find it hard to turn around and yell at somebody for not trusting his PM after all that.

[Carthrat]

That's.. not exactly my problem here, Shale. Gate didn't hint in his original claim that he thought he might die; I poked that out of him, then he turns around and says he thought he would die. Why is this, exactly? I can speculate- we all can. But why are we trying to answer this question for him when he should be *answering it himself*? There are some obvious answers... what's his?