Touhou Mafia - Main Topic

[Luther Lansfeld]

I removed my joke vote on Strago because it was based off of his desire to roll scum/serial killer from the sign-up thread. Someone's joke in the sign up thread sounds like a dumb reason to leave a vote on someone, honestly. I don't think he is lurking either, but I do think there are some people who are lurk-ish. For now, ##Vote: Ciato. Talk moar? ;_;

mia, my lesbian lover how could you doooo this to meeee?

Otter makes good points in his MASSIVE DAY 1 POST, but unfortunately it seems like our friends Thomas and smodge tend to garner this type of attention in... every day 1 ever. <_<

[QuietRain]

Glad to see the water mammal posting.  And thank you for the clarification.  I tend to take two very different views of 'polite' and 'civil'.  And I completely agree that being civil is always called for from Townies.  There's nothing that will cloud an issue unnecessarily faster than one Townie getting their knickers in a twist over a real or preceived rude comment that obfuscates everything in the thread for far too long.  Civility is always something to strive for in the game.  I think my person view of 'polite' is a much more old-school Miss Manners version of the word which I tend to think is not helpful to town.

And to correct my previous post, I forgot the bolding: ##Vote Andrew

[Luther Lansfeld]

Being polite in that manner, trying not to step on any toes, etc, is just not productive at all. At some point in the game you are going to have to take a stand on something, and being Miss Manners doesn't really get the point across too well.

[Otter]

Yep.  I believe I've run into this snag with others before: I say "Hey, let's try to be polite" while using polite in the "civil" sense, and then I get overrun with "That's not going to help anything!  Also hey, weren't you saying to be aggressive before, stop contradicting yourself!" type comments.  Clarifying makes everything better!  Civility does not interfere with aggressive town play at all, and there's no real excuse to behave otherwise when blatant rudeness disrupts the conversation and helps scum by serving as a distraction.

It's unfortunate that smodge and EvilTom draw so much attention so consistently, but I'm not really comfortable saying "Well, since it's THEM, let's just ignore it!"  If we said "If someone gives scum tells constantly, then it doesn't mean anything, it's just them being them!" then pretty soon we'd hit a situation where we'd be disregarding all tells and getting absolutely nowhere.  I'm perceiving some pretty blatant and uncalled-for incivility from Tom, and for reasons I think we've just made abundantly clear, I don't see a good town reason to act that way.  My alternatives as of now consist mostly of smodge (for his rather eyebrow-raising suggestion a little ways back) or Andrew (who just needs to show up again; I'm willing to give him a bit more time, although I'd definitely prefer some content today and might change my tune tomorrow if that doesn't happen).

[Yakumo]

Oh, there she is.  Well, guess I don't need this thing anymore.

##Unvote: Otter

Huh.  There's a lot of people not talking a whole lot.  Quit being so boring or I'll have to come after you!  Like you, pharmacy lady!  Besides, if you disappear Sis might let me have your rabbit! >_>

##Vote: Nitori

[mia~]

Ciato-chu is alive and so is Sir Sea Mammal~ Yay tilde~ ##Unvote: Ciato since she is showing some signs of life. I thought there was enough pressure on Andrew and Otter that they'd speak up, and Otter has delivered, but Andrew = ...? SAKUYA-SAN, SAKUYA-SAN, CLEANING STOP. ROOM, CLEANING, STOP. SAKUYA-SAN, SAKUYA-SAN!111 (Yes, this is SRS post in SRS mafia!)

As for Tom/smodge... Okay, re-read now that I'm not sleepy. So Tom claims j/k j/k and that he votes for smodge because smodge isn't doing anything productive for town. Yeah smodge's idea is "..."-worthy and hardly productive, but then again... Tom, how are you doing anything "productive for town" by overreacting to smodge? Also, how is correcting smodge's their/they're productive?

Currently I am torn between voting for Tom or Andrew. I am leaning Andrew because Tom is at least posting/playing whereas Andrew is... er, idk what Andrew is doing.


Actually, blah, oh what the hell. ##Vote: Andrew. I'm off to class.

[Sierra]

First off, ##Love snow (frozen precipitation) for getting me out of work early. Score.

More seriously...Day one slogs on, and there's still not much to go on.

There's Tom/Smodge stuff, but...there kind of always is, isn't there? Not that we should excuse loopy behavior in Mafia. But Smodge's suggestion, as bad as actually going through with it would be, felt like part of the joke phase still. Should I hold Tom's reaction to that against him? It's not like Tom was the only one to call him out there (granted, Tom did have a vote on him before that, I think, but I can't take much that was done in the first couple pages very seriously until I have more substantial material to compare it with). Really more comfortable going after lurkers at this stage.

So, the traditional day one policy of LAL dictates our moves once again. Andrew's drawing heat, but...that's not unusual. He gets off to a slow start, garners a pile of LAL votes, comes back a little irate at the attention and is eventually prodded into analysis. He's got a stack of votes on him already (how many, exactly? Been a bit since we had a votecount). We're a ways from the deadline still and I'll give him some time to get active before adding to them. If he's still MIA tonight, I'll reconsider.

Now, OK hasn't posted anything since before we started to creep out of the jokevote stage. But...that's pretty much how he operated in Suikomafia, and he was Town there. Again, not to excuse low postcounts, but...infrequent posts with a respectable amount of analysis once he gets caught up on things seemed to be his style.  However, it is day one, and since he hasn't taken the time to get some real opinions in yet, this LAL vote feels appropriate enough:

##Vote: Oblivionknight

Talk more and such.

[Nitori]

You can keep the rabbit, I have billions of them~

Hm...there's nothing really good to go after. Andy has enough pressure, Otter is here now, and I don't think I find Tom's gaffe worthy of a vote as Otter does. I'm tempted to keep my vote where it is as Strago hasn't exactly done much either...although Ciato has been out and about a long time without casting a vote...Eh, vote stands for now~

[Smodge13]

Dam i see no lurkers, ok there goes my plan of vote for lurker.
Unfortunately i won't be back for another 18 hours or so (unless i still have my internet account at university then only about 10 hours) So i'll decide who to vote on then.

No one looks out of place except EvilTom at the moment but it hardly seems worth a vote.

I guess i need to address this 1 issue.
Yes my grammar/punctuation sucks, amazingly i did pass English in high school even with it, what i use here is actually an improvement on my grammar and what would take me 5 minutes to type i deliberately take 10 minutes to check over, most of the time.
Unfortunately i can't catch everything but i am working on it, if you read Tsukihime mafia you will notice there has been a fair amount of improvement since then, so i may not be up to scrath now but i probably will be, given time.

[Otter]

Um... you don't see any lurkers, smodge?  Are you even reading the topic?  At the very least, Andrew qualifies, since he hasn't posted at all since a rather non-game-related day *2* post.

[AndrewRogue]

...uh... guys? I've been asleep since this pressure started rolling in, near as I can tell. I don't turn my computer off at night, so oft times I just leave the broswer up, close the lid and sleep. I'll try to avoid that so you guys aren't confused in the future. So, it is really hard to post when asleep maiding skills or serial killing skills aside.

Aside from that, yeah, was lurking a little bit in the joke vote phase but, blar. Couldn't think of much to say there.

I am surprised to see six pressure votes suddenly roll in while I actually can't respond. Three of them of them before Otter had a vote (who had, comparatively, no posts, excuses or not). So I'm outright going to theorize that there is scum in that train, plain and simple. As such...

##Vote: QuietRain

Third on the train, voted for me as a lurker, gave no particular reasoning (although one can make general assumptions about it), excuses Otter for not being here but doesn't consider I may well not have been active on the boards either. Also forgets to bold it, which is sneaky-sneaky :p.

Smodge and EvilTom... blar. It is hard to get day one reads of them. Everyone else... day one. *shrug*

[QuietRain]

I thought the reasoning was pretty simple.  I voted because you were lurking.  And yes, Otter was lurking as well, but I only have one vote, I couldn't tag both of you.  Now, after the current wave of posts, I see that Shale, Strago & Tonfa all have just 2 posts to their name.  I'd like to see some more posts from you guys.

##Unvote Andrew now that he's posting. 

And I think the line of thinking that on a pretty good sized vote train this early that there'd be at least 1 scum on it is most likely right.  It's easier to justify a middle of the train add on than it is to justify starting one or jumping on at the tail end.  Now, as I know I'm not scum, I'll definately be watching those within a vew votes of me over the next day or so.

I'll give the three above until I get home to get some posts going with content and then I'll give another vote on the stragglers.

[Smodge13]

Um... you don't see any lurkers, smodge?  Are you even reading the topic?  At the very least, Andrew qualifies, since he hasn't posted at all since a rather non-game-related day *2* post.

I am, but i'm allowing 24 hours since those posts to pass before callinghim a "lurker" seeing as i once got told off for calling people it after the game had been going for 12 hours in discworld i think it was.

[Chisa]

That satisfies me for the time being, but I'll be keeping an eye out.
##Unvote: Andrew
That leaves me with another case of the "blah, day one"s.  Nothing really seems voteworthy at this point.  Although, I would like to see more out of our friend the reluctant rabbit.  He hasn't posted since 45, and there's been no substance yet.  Speak up if you're able, the town needs all the conversation it can get.

[Corwin]

Objective achieved, ##Unvote: Andrew. As a side note, the quickness votes piled on here is a bit unnerving, but possibly just day 1 stuff, given there are no targets in sight so far aside from the usual slow posters/lurkers.

Now, time to eye Yakumo for even daring to suspect Eirin.

[Sierra]

*peers at Andrew post* Heh. Yeah, about what I expected.

Six votes is a lot to pile up in a short amount of time, yeah, but I'd rather see some kind of train going than persistent scattershot voting and a day ending without a lynch. Andrew's apparently around now, so he seems a less reasonable target. Hint of OMGUS in his countervote? Maybe, but it's reasonable to suspect anyone in a train. Well, reasonable to go back and dissect their posts, at least.

Come to think of it, has Kilga specified whether days would end without a lynch if we don't have a majority? I just checked through the initial post and didn't see anything making it specific one way or the other.

[EvilTom]

...Incivility o.o

THat's news to me, otter. All I did was respond to his odd comments during the joke phase with something like "you scummy bastard!" and incidentally correct his grammer. I honestly can't see what the big deal is...

As far as I'm concerned, there is no Smodge/Tom thing.  Well, there wasn't until Otter made a *thing* out of it. I find this most suspicious.

I'm glad at least that El Cideon remains a voice of reason in these troubling times. (My vote was already on Smodge from joke phase and I didn't want to be a sissy like everyone else and jump ship when times got tough. Joke phase over now.)

I'm weary of anyone who tries to make a mountain of a molehill when it comes to either Smodge or myself. It seems to be the perfect way for scum to start a towny fight. Throw in a few misrepresentations as we've seen here, and bam. Day one over and the town is in pieces.


##Unovte Smodge
##Vote Otter


To all else: Have a good sleep or something and then re-examine the first few pages. You'll realise that Otter is just trying to spice things up, which arouses my suspicion.
...which leads me to wonder if the late entry is some kind of scheme. It could well be!

[OblivionKnight]

Since I'm doing this for another game:

Taishyr (0): Shale
Otter (3): Strago, Yakumo, Tai, OK, Hal, Gate
Shale (0): Yakumo
Yakumo (0): Gatewalker
Strago (1): Nitori, miasmacloud
Gatewalker (0): QuietRain
AndrewRogue (0): Sir Alex, Corwin, Quietrain, Chisa(?)
Nitori (1): El Cideon, Nitori
Corwin (0): Halbarad, Carthrat
Smodge13 (3): EvilTom, Carthrat, Tonfa
El Cideon (0): Chisa
EvilTom (2): Smodge13, Alex, Otter
Chisa (1): Tonfa, Andrew
OK (1): ElCid
Quietrain (1): Andrew

Love Count:

Chen (1): Ran, Hal
Strago (0): OblivionKnight
Everyone (1): Taishyr

Think that's it...

And doctor's appointments done, I return.

##Unvote: Otter

Never certain what to do on day 1.  As Alex states, killing someone is important on day 1.  I'm never certain what criteria to use, as there's not much in the way of voting records or text to analyze to go off of, but pressuring people a bit who haven't posted much isn't completely idiotic (though, I understand what its like to be busy and focus your efforts on something else).  So...uh...  So...at the current moment, I think Tonfa and Hal have said the least.  3 from Tonfa, 4 from Hal (though to be fair, it's more like 2 and 3, due to randomness).  Of course, Strago and Shale haven't said much either.  So...of them, Hal and Tonfa haven't had votes on them yet.  So...

I choose you, Tonfa!

##Vote: Tonfa

Not offensive in any way (and time zone differences are fun!), but just to put my vote to use.  

As far as smodge and tom and the open mouth insert foot thing...eh, they're making a lot of talkings (WHY CAN I NOT LEARN ENGLISH IN MAFIA?!) and getting some stuff discussed.  Very active.  Honestly, I can't see a reason to fire that back at them at the moment.  Perhaps later, when we have real info to go on and some deaths to avenge?  Sure.

But right now, the dollmaker is watching and waiting.  

[OblivionKnight]

And really, in regards to smodge and tom, they seem to be really analytical and focused on looking at things.  This is good.  Making an issue out of it is...pretty bad, and allows one to really turn the tables and shift focus on people.  Situations like that are especially easy targets, where emotions overload judgment and logic.  It's happened in other mafia games, and if it happens here, it should be suspect.  Going after someone's integrity and shooting at their nuts instead of their head is a damn dirty trick.

[OblivionKnight]

Damn constant replies after I finish my posts!  And lack of editing!  It also just occurred to me that the deadline has been cut a bit.  I assume 7:30pm EST on Friday? 

[Yakumo]

It would help if you and Smodge would stop throwing around scumtells constantly.  Think about it.  You two ALWAYS end up at the forefront of day one discussion.  You two need to learn not to make waves.  You also need to learn that different people can see the same thing different ways, and not everyone that makes a case against a townie is scum.

[Ranmilia]

i see no lurkers

That's rather the point of lurking, isn't it? 

Anyhow, an oddity has arisen.  Andrew was in fact online last night, talking to me on AIM for some time, but didn't post anything here.  On the one hand he's right that the game was still in jokevote then and it was before the pressure votes on him came in.  On the other hand, it feels a little uncomfortable knowing that he did not post and is turning around to take this line on the people who pressured him.  On the third hand... he may by right, just by virtue of press of statistics.  On the fourth hand, this a really weak case.  On the fifth hand, so are all the others, this is what day 1 entails.  I hate day 1. 

Edit for 8 new replies:  Oi, I see the OMGUS is strong with this game.

[Otter]

I didn't invent any "smodge and Tom thing," and I'm not sure why Tom is trying to make it look like I did.  I urge all players to read over all pertinent posts again to make sure.  I didn't even imply that there had been an argument or take issue with anything they had been discussing.  I simply voted for Tom because his grammatical correction looked strident, unnecessary (smodge knows all about his grammar problems already), and generally like an attempt at inciting smodge.

If you think the late entry is intentional, well, observe the fact that I wasn't on the boards or in IRC yesterday from the time of the game's start.  Furthermore, there's nothing in it for anyone to lurk intentionally.  Lurking automatically gets you suspicion (or it SHOULD; I am a full supporter of Lynch All Lurkers).

Honestly, it feels like Tom is doing the same thing he does in most games where I've seen him play: go straight for the neck of whoever's voting for him.  I'm not even sure what he's talking about with this "Otter invented a smodge/Tom thing!" business, and it wouldn't hurt for him to clarify what he means and quote specifically from my posts.  Please: if you think I'm misrepresenting you, show me the exact wording you're taking issue with and explain so I can understand.

Also, if you "can't see" what the big deal is with correcting smodge's grammar, bear in mind that smodge is the only one capable of controlling what smodge posts, and smodge is fully aware of his grammar problem.  You know this, because it's come up before in games I've seen where both of you were playing; Tsukihime comes to mind.  What was your intention with making that kind of specific correction, if it wasn't to incite?  What purpose did it serve?

[EvilTom]

It would help if you and Smodge would stop throwing around scumtells constantly.

Maybe you need to re-evaluate your scumtells if they keep picking up town? Maybe they're not that great afterall. If there really was a definitive list of scumtells, then obviously scum would not be doing them. The idea of scumtells is stupid and allows the real scum to manipulate everything too easily. Much better to go with a combination of logic & gut feeling than some arbitrary rules of "if x does this, they are scum".

You two need to learn not to make waves. 

Yeah..... no. In order for town to catch scum, there needs to be conversation, analysis, and examination. These come about often through argument. Anyone stiffling conversation is not acting in the best interest of the town.

ou also need to learn that different people can see the same thing different ways

Fair enough, I'll keep that one in mind, but only if you do too, 'kay?

Anyway, that was sidetracked a bit and has not much to do with the actual case in point. Just wanted to get that off my chest, I hate the whole "stop acting like scum" thing, it's just an excuse for.. argh I'd better not start ranting.

[EvilTom]

What was your intention with making that kind of specific correction, if it wasn't to incite?  What purpose did it serve?

I'm pretty sure that none of my English teachers were trying to start a fight when they helped teach me English. You, on the other hand, seem to be acting like the kid who runs screaming into the classroom yelling "THERE'S A FIGHT BETWEEN SMODGE AND TOM, COME SEE!"

Sure, you didn't invent what we said, but you're making a big deal out of early day 1 stuff. Like correcting grammar. Or saying that I'm being 'blatantly uncivil';

I'm perceiving some pretty blatant and uncalled-for incivility from Tom, and for reasons I think we've just made abundantly clear, I don't see a good town reason to act that way.

It seems like you're resorting to those personal attacks by calling me uncivil, y'know? Trying to paint me in scum colours from the start. Perhaps you'd like to tell me where I'm being uncivil so I can also understand.


Anyway, re: attacking those who vote for me:
On day 1, I don't really know who to attack. For my joke vote, I rolled a random number. Attacking randomly isn't as good as attacking those who attack the only person I can confirm as town (myself). I'm effectively utilising the only information I've been given.