Touhou Mafia - Main Topic

[Taishyr]

...Reading it, I think I can say this safely without getting modkilled.

I have a oneshot of Watcher ability tonight, and since I know how to trigger that I can try to get more, though my luck is abysmal so the chances of it are low.


Furthermore, unless people are convinced I'm scum, here, I... can't see how lynching me helps out here. That'd be going along with the lynch... just to see me flip... and if I flip town, which I will, nothing is learned. ...uh. I appreciate not wanting to kill cops and all, but... either she's Naive or she's scum, from my Po(F?)V, so I can't say I'm afraid of landing this vote.

##Vote: QuietRain

And no, I specifically said I wasn't roleblocked. I know my ability worked, damnit.

[Yakumo]

The thing is, the two ways Tai can be lying are for him to be the Godfather or QR's limited cop ability to be naive.  If he's the Godfather, he's playing a dangerous game.  His millerness is very likely testable unless we have only one limited cop in the game, which is possible.  If QR is naive, well, we honestly don't lose much power-wise at least, and that could override Miller, in which case BOTH are telling the truth.  A naive cop is useless.  Why is Tai so much more likely to be scum than QR, here?

Ciato:  No, it was asked if roleblocking would stop Miller, and Tai said he was NOT roleblocked.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Ow, this makes my brain hurt. Claiming that as a Godfather would be very o.O. Both ocould be telling the truth, it'd just be weird as hell to have a naive 2/3rds of the time cop... but it's possible.

[Taishyr]

...See Yakumo, too. I don't get why I'm the most suspicious one here for calling -her- out in what would be a goddamn (in-character, metaphorically) balls-to-the-wall move. Losing a cop for a Godfather (since, if you presume -she-'s telling the truth, that's what I'd have to be - either that or she's Naive) is uh not a great trade - you saw how far Excal coasted on that in Discworld Mafia. There's.... yeah, why in hell stand up and call her out on this, as a Godfather? And if I'm normal scum, I know she's naive, so again, why not let her keep talking and investigating?

Neither of those options make any logical sense if you consider them, and they're even worse to me since I know neither's the case (like I can prove it, but.)

[Nitori]

Re: Corwin. His behavior in calling out Andy I still don't see as...all that reasonably suspect, since I came to a variant of the conclusion that Cor came to. What I didn't really look at, though, was his tiff with Tai; I agree with Rat in that his reason for calling Tai's vote OMGUS there wasn't too good. But there's really not enough to build a case here, especially when there hasn't been any further Corwin posts and...

Re: QR/Tai. We have a far more telling issue for today, and that's this. My initial thought was to suspect QR, since the scenarios under which she is lying seem more plausible than the issues which would indicate Tai is lying, then Alex brings up the point that QR has more potential role ability to offer the town. Both are admittedly valid cases, but the "Investigate two nights, skip the third" kinda bothers me, as it would give scum QR a reason to not do anything Day 3, but that is kind of WIFOM when I think about it. I sort of think QR is the more suspicious one here, although vigging Tai is also a good idea from the other perspective. QR's claim just reads so much like a trick to me. If they are both telling the truth I will headdesk repeatedly.

Also, where is the Wonderful Shrine Maiden of Paradise~? Reimu, Reimu, where are you? Reimu, Reimu, why are you blue?

[Taishyr]

Oh, and while I'm at it, ##Love: Everybody.

For my powers, they do rely on love~ sadly, I lack access to any of those powers in this game, but hey.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Actually, how does lynching Tai and him flipping town really answer any of our questions, anyway? The possibility of her being naive or scum is still there, whereas if she flips Naive Cop, well we'll know, if she flips regular cop, we'll know Tai is scum, and if she flips scum, well...

[OblivionKnight]

Ok, random question: Are millers usually told they're millers in mafia games?  I could see it going both ways, really, but what's usually done?

[Yakumo]

Ciato:  There's no guarantee her sanity will show on flip.  In fact, the way Kilga's going, I'd bet against it.

OK:  It seems to vary a lot around here.  Some are, some aren't.  Don't know what's normal where Kilga learned it, though.

[Shale]

There's.... yeah, why in hell stand up and call her out on this, as a Godfather? And if I'm normal scum, I know she's naive, so again, why not let her keep talking and investigating?

If you're normal scum, yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. If you're godfather, it's ballsy as hell but possible, since in that case you have a decent idea that she's sane, and if you get her lynched and survive you could bait another cop into roleclaiming to get you killed if they investigate you and get a town result. Xanatos Gambit, yeah, but it's something.

Edit: Ninja'd!

OK: Millers are usually (but not always) told they're millers.
Ciato: I wouldn't expect Kilga to give us her sanity on flip. If he does, well, bonza, but unlikely.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Mmm. I dun like sekrits. ;_; Suppose the lovely Aya could explain this?

[Halbarad]

Yakko: I find Tai more likely because 2-out-of-3 days cop strikes me as making a lot more sense than 2-out-of-3 days naive cop. Add to this the point I just made about the high reluctance to be killed in order to out a scum, on what is a fairly weak power claim (I think I can guess what it is, but that's beside the point, and on the outside chance he ISN'T scum I'm not going to give it to them), and he looks scummier to me. Combine that with my positive QR read prior to this whole situation (which as I've said before, I can't ask anyone else to trust, but I will myself) and I think he's the better bet to lynch first.

To Tai? I would suggest making a full claim if you think your power is that valuable to town, since if I'm right you're going to be of very limited utility to town in the long run - I'd rather take QR's roleclaim other than what I believe yours to be.

Again, if it turns out we're wrong? We can still lynch QR for the day, assuming Andy vigs Tai.

Also, do we need to actually switch our official votes to determine the vigging target, or are we just going to discuss it to some sort of consensus? I'll hold off on moving mine until we've got an answer, but I have no problem switching over to Tai if that's how Andy would prefer that we do this.

Shale: ONLY a godfather could pull this off, as if we assume that QR is sane any other scum would return scum to her.

[Shale]

Yeah, if Tai is non-Godfather scum she's naive and therefore there's no reason to call her on it except for an easy lynch (which, the way this game is going, they don't particularly need), which is the reason that line of thought doesn't make sense.

[Shale]

Also, on voting: We'd want to use some non-official voting measure, like ##Andy or something. Using regular votes means if a majority goes for one person they're hammered and the day's over.

[Kilgamayan]

Again, death flips role name and alignment.

[Taishyr]

I CANNOT FULL ROLECLAIM.

I've been trying to hint at that.

I wish I damn well could, since it'd clarify. All I can say is that I have a one-shot of Watcher today and could get other abilities in the future.

And all I can say is that QR lying makes more sense than two-days-of-three naive cop. >_>

[Yakumo]

Yakko: I find Tai more likely because 2-out-of-3 days cop strikes me as making a lot more sense than 2-out-of-3 days naive cop. Add to this the point I just made about the high reluctance to be killed in order to out a scum, on what is a fairly weak power claim (I think I can guess what it is, but that's beside the point, and on the outside chance he ISN'T scum I'm not going to give it to them), and he looks scummier to me. Combine that with my positive QR read prior to this whole situation (which as I've said before, I can't ask anyone else to trust, but I will myself) and I think he's the better bet to lynch first.

To Tai? I would suggest making a full claim if you think your power is that valuable to town, since if I'm right you're going to be of very limited utility to town in the long run - I'd rather take QR's roleclaim other than what I believe yours to be.

Again, if it turns out we're wrong? We can still lynch QR for the day, assuming Andy vigs Tai.

Also, do we need to actually switch our official votes to determine the vigging target, or are we just going to discuss it to some sort of consensus? I'll hold off on moving mine until we've got an answer, but I have no problem switching over to Tai if that's how Andy would prefer that we do this.

Shale: ONLY a godfather could pull this off, as if we assume that QR is sane any other scum would return scum to her.

So what about that first point on Tai accounts for the fact that QR could be LYING SCUM?  Scum knows who isn't scum, but they would NOT know Tai was a Miller!

[Ranmilia]

Man, this topic's moving fast tonight.

I confess I have no explanation as to why scum-Tai would do this, aside from wild conspiracy theories involving 2/3 of Andrew/QR/Tai being scum and this beign a gambit to obtain townie cred.  My analysis says that QR's telling the truth about her being cop, though.  Soooo.

Edit:  Tai, can you clarify why you cannot full roleclaim?

[Taishyr]

No, irritably. Let's just say I like avoiding any remaining spellcards Aya may have. Little punk's slandering my reputation, she is.

[Halbarad]

So what about that first point on Tai accounts for the fact that QR could be LYING SCUM?  Scum knows who isn't scum, but they would NOT know Tai was a Miller!

She very well could be, I'm not saying it's impossible. What I AM saying is that if Tai gets vigged and comes up clean, we've got a clear lynch target.

The main difference is that if we do it the other way around (vig QR and she comes up clean) we've lost a cop in the testing process, since if she flips town it really, really puts Tai's claims in doubt.

It's quite possible that both are town, but I find it very unlikely that this is the case - you'd have to have naive limited cop QR for this to be the case, and I don't find that being a terribly high likelihood myself.

The main thing I'm coming down to is strictly a practicality assessment; if my guess about Tai's role is correct, it will be less useful than a cop will be. Given the choice of which of the two to sacrifice, I'll take the definitely-not-a-cop-and-spotty-success-power (which is as much as Tai has given us so far) over the cop claim.

[Taishyr]

(and to be honest, I'm wondering how badly I'm skirting the border right now about what I can and can't say. If EvilTom as Suika had an disability like this, I could see why he'd claim Cop, as... dense... as it was for him to do, due to the whole impulsive counter-claim possibility that was out there.)

[Shale]

Tai: Can you just not say what other abilities you can use later, or do you not actually know? Or would answering that also invoke wrath of mod?

[VySaika]

...oh god that's alot of text. Last thing I saw was my last post. Catching up now.

[OblivionKnight]

Dear Marisa, my love and life, is there anything else you can tell us?  Please?

[Taishyr]

Uh.

I have no clue if that would be bad to answer or not. Let's... let's... aw, hell, if I get modoffed it clarifies things anyway, but I'm going to try and avoid it here...

I have a decent shot of obtaining more Watcher uses, now that I have one shot of it. However, other abilities are definitely a possibility. With all the stuff I've got in my house, I -should- be able to do something, ze, but apparently I'm bad at holding fiery lances of doom. (Swing by and pick that up on your way home, Flandre.)