So, uhh, deadline for day 2 came as I was asleep. The entire following day was wasted by me hitting f5 and waiting on an email to come with a post notification. Then, game resumed while I was asleep once more and from a single post on page 30 I now have to catch up to page 38 (?!). I'm certain by the time I've read up till then, it'll be page 40+ or somesuch. I hate you all, and I hate Kilga the most.
So what
can I do? I could make this post I've written yesterday in notepad which comments on what caught my eye as day 2 came to a close, now that I've seen a partial confirmation of Andrew's claim (not vig, yet, from what I can see, but the not-dying part). Here goes.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg4978#msg4978Yakumo, what you saw as a gameplay issue, I believed to be scum slipping up. Andrew seemed to have tried fishing for counterclaims when it was still viable with Tom, then he continued saying that and at least Tai appeared to be nodding along from his response to me. Given we don't have just one important role in this game (meta, yeah, but we all know this) it certainly seemed like setting the stage for drawing one out when scum/suspicious townie roleclaim in the future. In particular, he could've gone past his day 1 softclaim and gotten a vital town role caught in his logic trap in the process.
Then, there's Cid post to me +vote. If Andrew was speaking hypothetically, why was he speaking of it so consistently in his day 2 posts? There was just too much, and it was going for a second day in a row... you're free to disagree, but we won't catch scum if I duck my head every time someone drops a vote on me rather then staying on someone who I consider to be the likeliest scum.
Reading Patchu's post, I have to wonder myself how Shale managed to pick up so many votes. Yeah, he was lurkerific, and I commented on that myself, but going back to glance at a votecount, wasn't he like on 4 votes compared to Patchu's 6 at one time?
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg4988#msg4988smodge, I wasn't too comfortable with Andrew's softclaim, I must say. It could just as easily be scum preparing the ground for a claim, as a legit one. I suppose I could invite you to reread the arguments without the preconception that Andrew's claim necessarily makes him town, but given the developments in the thread since your post... eh.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg4991#msg4991Yakumo, again. Yes, pretty much (on Hal). I was going by games, just not mafia. Your point of it not being the best reference here, perhaps, is well-taken.
I don't believe I was repeating the same argument as much as finding more proof to support a case that jumped at me, the way Andrew's post did on a reread of the last few posts at the time. He already looked bad to me for the voting issue Tonfa found and the way he avoided my point on it being a tell. So I kept going back, and I kept
finding more and more. What was I supposed to do, ignore it and vote on the Patchu train I just didn't buy into for reasons already stated? The pressure was for a situation you don't feel relevant, you were saying in an earlier post, but I disagree -- I answered that one above. Unfortunately, Kilga's days end while I sleep which is annoying, but it's not like I can do anything about that. I wish I had time to discuss all this before the day had ended.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg4993#msg4993Okay, Andrew's post. On itself, not too compelling. He agrees to making a factual mistake of sorts, and confuses a role:
"I do believe that, yes, once the
doc is able to substantiate his claim (both that he is the real cop AND that the other claimer is actually scum), he should, as Soppy would say, take the shot and take the scum down."
Generally, since we're recalling mafia precedents, what I'm getting here is the Super in NR vibe, especially since retarded as those things are, he did manage to get a counterclaim from our real cop.
The one thing I did feel better about is that while Andrew agrees that a certain sense of urgency exists in his previous posts, he's clarifying that he's not going for days 1/2 counterclaims.
The follow up post is actually interesting. Since Andrew isn't, you know, Tom, and the claim is easily-verifiable, it would have been enough for me to stave off my vote.
Okay, so now that I'm off Andrew's case for the moment, let's look at the follow-up posts. smodge's is interesting in that he calls out Otter, and Otter does seem to be too quiet. Is it a tell? In the two games he did this (Discworld and Random), he was scum in one and town in another. But lurkers are bad for town, since not speaking up = others not getting a read on you, so I'll be looking at him next if this continues. I can also understand why Andrew would vote for Patchu (especially if he's town, and thus the only thing he's sure of is himself).
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg5003#msg5003This is puzzling from QR. Like I said earlier, Andrew's got an easily-verifiable role. In fact, you guys should've just reached a consensus and had him kill the scummiest-looking person around to benefit town. I can see the arguments for waiting until there is ample time for discussion, but given the risks of braving the night... a difficult call to make. But I think the choice there should have been between calling Andrew out on it right away to both prove his allegience and aid us by giving us a mostly-confirmed townie (after expending his oneshot vig he would be just vanilla, so the target on his back during the night lessens) and waiting the night out to allow any investigative roles and good old investigative discussion give us more input before actually using the vig power. I entirely don't see where voting for him is an acceptable option, QR.
Agreement with OK that Andrew's posts gave more insight into his thought process. I find myself disagreeing with him even more, now (you'd spend the oneshot vig during day 1, randomly, because you choose to trust Tom and some people don't? yeah). However, the sense of Andrew = scummy has lessened in the process, and I can get along with people who play the game differently, as long as we're all doing our best to win.
QR later unvotes Andrew and goes for Patchu. I can't find fault with her logic there, or her urging Andrew to use his power as soon as possible, and give his target a chance to convince him it'd be a bad idea (ie standard pre-lynching defense). Since Andrew says he intends to use it as a second lynch for a day, that seems sensible.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg5030#msg5030Cid doesn't look too good here. A few things:
He speculates on doc protection and the like. I've been after these things from the start, perhaps because a disproportionate ratio of posts by different players seem to discuss roles. I have admittedly been overzealous here, looking back on how the flips went, but I can't help but see each new instance of this in a bad light. With that said, I'm looking closer at your post. And the rest of it doesn't look too hot, either. I've stayed on Andrew due to genuinely believing him scummier than Patchu AND because I had a chance to get that scummy-looking person lynched instead of someone who seemed like a flailing townie to me. My vote was certainly not cast with the intent of letting it go to waste. Yet yours is, unless you believed that with under 2 hours to go I was suddenly a candidate for lynching.
So yeah, FoS, etc. Explain yourself.
On Alex, and commenting I look suspicious for daring to think outside the box (or, in other words, for looking beyond the train that formed for shaky reasons and threatened to occupy the entire day), I guess I'm willing to fight for my beliefs, just like QR said about herself. If playing the way I do and going aggressively after those I see as scummy gets me lynched? Still better than lurking in the shadows unhelpfully and voting with the herd. May my efforts benefit town, at least, even if I won't be around to see it.
On Tai's post. Eh. It was all about Andrew, and proving his allegience by a display of powers or a flip pretty much makes the debate moot. Yeah, I see no reason to keep at it by this point.
Page 29, QR talks about fears of not surviving the night, etc. It just caught my eye because it's not the first time she talks of dying horribly at the hands of scum. Except, you know, she doesn't. Just seems odd, and gets odder the more I hear about this from her/the longer she survives despite that.
And then there's the flip. Patchu... well, at least she wasn't lying about vanilla, or it could've been worse. The Martyr bit... well, I hadn't found the Patchu case compelling (yes, there were tells; I just saw a different way of reading them), and the suspicion on Chisa seemed to stem from largely the same reasons. I can't say I'm too surprised over him flipping as town. And, quite unexpectedly given Tom's claim/immediate death, we have Andrew around for the day. I fully support the idea of having two lynches today, as I've stated before (both in this post and other games when it's come up). Today, I'll be catching up and briefly glancing at the newest posts for any developments. I'm sure there are arguments on whom to vig, but merely skimming them means an ineffectual opinion from me at most, so I'll just stick to the usual thorough read.
