Right. After the day starts, people comment on how they have nothing to comment on.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg5176#msg5176Now we move on to smodge, who says Andrew's power being used confirms 'us' a townie. Had it been anyone else I'd have asked them how exactly it even begins to confirm anyone but Andrew as anything but a liar by using it (nothing prevents him from being non-town aligned and still having a oneshot dayvig power). If smodge is talking about how we'll lynch townies and confirm them postmortem? He does realize that as dead townies we're kinda useless to town itself, barring an unlikely zombie role, right (or by giving confirmation of a claim, which at this time only Andrew has put forth)? Eh. I guess I want to know what exactly smodge was thinking of, here.
Agree with him on Shale, whose nonpresence I highlighted previously myself.
Next is Hal's post. I'm glad to see him participate without votes piling on him; I consider that a good sign. I would like him to post about someone other than Tonfa, though. While his points there are valid, I would like him to talk more about the rest of the players. No specific questions at this point, just enough to see Hal from another angle and compile a better read on him.
EDIT: And here's Hal doing some of what I asked for, here:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg5204#msg5204Those who know me would also know that I agree entirely with using the dayvig, dividing the day in two (so that we have a clear deadline, just like with a proper lynch) and the majority decision is likewise clear. We can't well hammer someone, as that results in the real lynch. However, I would like the majority to be quite clear, such as -2 to hammer or the area of. Part of the point of a lynch is having people argue for/against lynching Person X and then committing to it with a vote. A shaky majority of 4 people with everyone else sniping from the sidelines won't tell us as much.
Utter hate for Yakumo's "and Corwin hadn't popped in to address them yet" timed 2:31am my time while the entire last RL day was clearly 'night' in the game during which I couldn't post, nor was the day 2 ending at a reasonable time RL for me. On a reread of that sentence, it's not hate for Yakumo specifically, but in general for expecting me to respond when he knows I simple
can't, not won't (from having played with me in Tsukihime, for example). And bah, in itself, it's not actually
suspicious, just way too irritating.
Wow, QR roleclaims. I don't like the way she phrases it: "So, I'm going to see if I can take myself out of the running with a roleclaim as Andy said I was his main target." This makes it sound as if a roleclaim in itself placed her beyond doubt, and in a game where the only verified claim was actually a lie (by town, admittedly, so it's not any kind of sign of scummitude).
I'm torn as to whether I should understand her behavior or not. She didn't believe Tom was a cop because she's a cop variant? So... the idea of two cops, especially if one of them isn't a full cop, and in a largish game like ours... is so out of the question? I can get behind 'not flipping believing' Tom, however, and that's valid enough for me to accept her actions. I had some reason to doubt his specific claim, myself, but most of it came down to it being TOM and that his claim was delivered in a way that instantly made me think he was trying to save his ass. That cost town a power role of indeterminate nature (custom illusionist, whatever it is), and a few other things, since I would have likely traded Tom off for Strago as a player on our side. Oh well, it's a done deal by now.
And finally, a claim that Tai = Town. With the way he stuck his neck out to defend Andrew day 2, I'd tend to concur. It just feels a bit too far for scum to put himself on the line, and for little gain from what I can see.
Reading on....
Andrew claims two night kill attempts. To clarify, does he mean on himself? Or is that a power of his that lets him know all kill attempts a given night? Were there two kill attempts night 1 as well, if the latter? And he notices the irony of QR's roleclaim right on the heels of the long debate we had over roleclaims, particularly from cops. I'll have to reread that segment to see which side of the divide QR advocated, to see if there's some inherent contradiction. But that's for later, and right now it's more important to me to catch up.
And double wow, Tai counter-claims a miller, which brings all kinds of sanity questions to QR, if she is not flat out lying. If Tai = Scum, it's a bit of a dumb gambit to get QR killed... and for what? An unfavorable exchange rate for scum? Tai didn't seem particularly suspicious to people so far, aside from a case of lurking, so why would he do this as scum? I'm tempted to accept his claim, but QR isn't Tom and cop claims in general should be tentatively accepted and checked....
I can't decide at this point, but maybe the answer's ahead, somewhere.
To Rat: Yes, pretty much. Some people may or may not be prone to groupthink. Some I know better, and you happen to be one of them. When you do it, it's definitely weird. Also, following apparent groupthink and all, you were town in Discworld, which should actually support my argument, not draw away from it. I'm allowed to learn from experience, I hope.
My reasons for the Andrew case have been detailed in the other posts, so if you're still not satisfied with my reasoning after reading them, ask me specific questions and I'll try to clarify what I can.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg5213#msg5213Shale's post. 1 is possible; 1a is not something likely, given that Tai has thrust himself into the spotlight where he wasn't there before. It just doesn't work for me. 2 is... possible. Eh. QR is always so hard to read. I was convinced she was on the side of good in NR, and... yeah. 3 is... well, what's the point? If we have another cop, they'll be able to get a read on him and come up town. Also, if QR gets lynched, scum lose their godfather who was cleared by a cop (unless Tai talks fast, I suppose, but it's an awful gambit to try). Just think about this for a moment, does that sound even remotely likely? The godfather role exists to draw a cop to clear them, so who would just do this? In fact, if we buy the cop claim more, we might trade the claimed miller to confirm or disprove it, and end with the outcome of dead scum godfather/living and confirmed cop.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg5215#msg5215smodge, in something that needs to be quoted:
Regardless, i thought QR was scum and voted for her before the claim, so i'm willing to stick with it regardless of the claim.
Emphasis mine. It just... argh. Here's what he says a page earlier when he votes for her (
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=329.msg5176#msg5176):
##Vote: QuietRain
I'm not sure whether its just bad town, or really really obvious scum, twice now we have had people roleclaim a town power, and twice she has voted for those people AFTER the claims.
Please explain the difference to me between voting for someone after a roleclaim and leaving your vote on someone after a roleclaim. For the life of me, I just see semantics. If that was enough for you to vote QR, is that enough for me to vote you? I dunno, but you don't look so good with this logic.
And Andrew's last post for page 31 is as far as I got on my lunch break. I do agree that QR's choice of Tai is a bit puzzling. She went to investigate Tom on night 1, she claims, which is not something I would have done before knowing whether he has a chance of living through the night. I would have gone for the people who gave off a neutral read or, perhaps, those who stayed on him like she did, but without a reason as apparently good as she claims (which I don't entirely buy into, but like I already said, the 'IT WAS TOM' and 'he behaved oddly even for Tom' part of the reason are enough for me). Instead, she targetted him... and then Tai? Not another claimed role? Not someone who might have been more active in overall discussion, not just Andrew's case? I'm not entirely comfortable agreeing with someone I've considered the likeliest scum candidate till his claim (and who could still be one, if we don't see the dayvig work as claimed), but I don't see much choice except concur with him here.
Okay. I think I'm going to comment as I read each couple of pages, since work today is being especially nasty (as it has a habit of being, lately, sigh). That's probably my best chance of getting thoughts out on things as I see them -- there could be information that makes what I'm pointing out now moot, perhaps... but likewise, some little thing I mention in my posts may suddenly become relevant to an ongoing case, so I don't feel that what I'm trying to do is useless. People, especially under pressure, far too often forget what they argued in the past, and might be caught in a contradiction, if not an outright lie.
