Touhou Mafia - Main Topic

[Shale]

Actually...bah, scratch that last part, they'd just have had to investigate him last night, when he'd just report "miller." Which would be an intensely weird thing to do with his immunity to non-kill actions already demonstrated, but we already have someone claiming to have investigated him without realizing that the immunity was gone.

I swear, this effing game.

[VySaika]

Leaving my vote where it is. I've made my case on Smodge, I've said why I think Tonfa's a bad idea(and yeah, it's nothing more then gut, so I won't expect anyone else to listen to it), I don't have much else to say.

Keeping this short so my temper, which has gone through the roof from external sources today, doesn't run away with my post and I start getting mean.

[Shale]

Okay, now that I've got the rolecop idea in my head I'm looking seriously at Smodge as the less-bad alternative again. All the behavior problems are still there, and there's a (what I think is) reasonable theory that would make this day's actions not insane for Scum-Smodge. That plus the lower risk of losing the game makes it awfully attractive.

Of course, even if I throw a vote at him Rat or Tai will have to do the same to make it mean anything, and neither of them is going to be available for a while, so I get the feeling this is going to be a full day. I'd like to hear from one of them again before somebody swings.

[Carthrat]

I don't really know how much stock I want to put into role theories (there's a lot of possibilities, especially in a game like this, etc. etc.). But I'm not opposed to a lynch of Smodge *or* Tonfa. From my perspective, it really comes down to what you and Tai are going to do, 'cos your votes would be required to lynch majority.

I'm willing to wait to see if Tai has a decision by the deadline. If he doesn't come to one and you're sold on Smodge, I'll likely change.

[Shale]

Fair enough. I don't think I'm ever going to be sold on either one, but as long as the objective information we have doesn't make the idea of Smodge as evil totally insane, I think he's scummier on his own merits.

[Taishyr]

Mmmph. If his claim is true, then it has, currently, the potential to kill one of the two of Excal/Smodge, one of the people I am decently sure is town, and whoever chooses to hammer.

...nyar, so much dislike for this situation, but Tonfa's the main lynch option I see. Let me look over Smodge one more time.

[Kilgamayan]

Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game! Vote Count:

Smodge13 (2): Carthrat, Gatewalker, Tonfa
Excal (0): Tonfa
Tonfa (3): Excal, Smodge13, Carthrat

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is in 2.5 hours. If you have night actions to take, feel free to send them in.

Notice: Tonfa is one vote away from lynch!

[Carthrat]

Well?

It's forty minutes to hammer. I feel compelled to rush you here, Tai.

[Taishyr]

...I thought we decided I wasn't going to be the hammer in case he was really a bomb, Carthrat. Or do I miss something?

Regardless, recommending Tonfa dies today.

[Carthrat]

Er, I meant 'fourty minutes to deadline, we are kinda awaiting your decision'. I was thinking Shale for hammer if you decided on Tonfa.

'course, that now depends on Shale!

[Shale]

If Tai's not going to add anything else, then I guess I'll go along with the Tonfa lynch.

Any last words? Any arguments for hammer vs. letting the clock run out?

[Shale]

I should probably explain why I'm thinking that's even a reasonable option:

Based solely on behavior, no hard role information involved, I would vote to lynch Smodge. If the day times out as it is now, he's got a 33% chance to get caught by the bomb if this is a mislynch. If I hammer, that chance drops to 25%, and there's an additional 25% chance that I will die instead of him, Rat or Excal. As far as I'm concerned, this is a bad deal for town since I know I'm not evil, but have serious doubts on Smodge and don't know for certain on Rat or Excal. Of course, I'm sure those three have their own views on the subject <_<.

[Kilgamayan]

Only a few minutes left to change minds!

[Carthrat]

Letting the clock run out... uh.. geez. That's kind of valid, and I kinda trust you, Shale, but the point of the matter is *anyone* makes a better target than me here, so the more chances to hit someone else, the better, and I can't deny there's an outside chance of you being scum.

I'd rather we hammered than let the clock run out if I have to be on the train, frankly, and the only way for that to really work out is if me and gate unvote now (and I don't even know if Gate is around, so.) in order to make sure tonfa has a majority on him. I can't expect Tonfa to unvote so he can himself die.

That would leave Excal and Smodge- my two biggest targets apart from Tonfa- voting for him. I think that if you were the one voting here, you'd feel the same way I do. So, basically, I'm pro-hammer unless gate can unvote and leave my two biggest suspects there. :/

[Kilgamayan]

One minute!

[Kilgamayan]

HAMMER SHUT UP

Tonfa, playing Yuyuko Saigyouji (Proximity Mine, TOWN-ALIGNED) was lynched!

But we're not done yet! Stay tuned for a story that I'll crank out as fast as I can, as the Day's events aren't over!

[Shale]

Pretty much what I'd figure, then. And yeah, I don't think Gate would unvote even if he was here.

So...oy. Guess I'll take the risk, then. If I gotta go, it might as well be with a bang.

##vote Tonfa

[Kilgamayan]

"Wait, so now I'm an object of suspicion? And why is that? Are you implying that I'd cut my own servant's arm off and turn my best friend's shikigami against her?"

Yuyuko leered at the small crowd remaining. No one seemed willing to look the ghost princess in the eyes (or able to stop digging at the ground with their feet), aside from Yuka, who was content to stare back at Yuyuko with an look of indifference on her face. Yuyuko snorted.

"This disrespect is intolerable. If I am to leave, so be it, but it will not be without taking one of you with me - to use as a servant in the Netherworld! And not just my servant, no, you'll be Youmu's servant!"

Yuyuko raised her hand and pointed at the sky. "Now, then, I think I'll take..."

Yuyuko was interrupted by the scream of someone thought to have left the area.

"KOMACHI!"

Komachi had time to half-open one of her eyes before Sikieiki's tag came crashing down repeatedly on her head, eliciting several pitiful "Kyan!"s in the process. The yama punctuated every word of her tirade with a smack.

"Do! You! Have! Any! Idea! How! Busy! We! Are! And! You're! Still! Here! Slacking! Off! Get! Your! Ass! Back! To! Work! This! Instant!"

Komachi ran off in the general direction of Muenzuka, whining as she went. Siki started to speed off after her, but stopped as if she remembered something.

"By the way, Yuyuko, something has come up with the Netherworld. Since you're currently in charge there, I figure you will want to come and deal with it. Please come with me."

"Uh...okay..." Yuyuko floated away after the yama, who quickly returned to chewing her underling's ear off.

Smodge13, playing Komachi Onozuka (Lazy Cop, TOWN-ALIGNED) was caught in the detonation and has been killed!

It is now Night 6. Please send all night actions that I require.

[Kilgamayan]

The night actions sent to me tonight have finalized the result of this game, so I'm ending it now.

---

The now minute crowd was running out of pre-attack filler when Yuyuko returned for one very brief moment.

"Oh, I forgot to make my choice. Consider this repayment for your mistress cutting off my servant's arm."

Yuyuko pointed at Sakuya, who gasped and fell to the ground.

...Somehow still alive.

Yuyuko frowned. This wasn't the first time that girl hadn't keeled over and died at her hands. I guess control over death isn't what it used to be.

"Very well. I'll simply drag you along with me. Now come." Yuyuko grabbed Sakuya by the shoulder and unceremoniously carried Sakuya with her toward Muenzuka to meet up with the yama again.

Marisa watched them leave. "Wow, and here I thought Sakuya would have been working with the vampHURK!"

Marisa was interrupted by the vomit that suddenly rushed to and through her mouth - Mokou had snuck up on her and punched her in the gut as hard as she could. The magician staggered for a moment, then fell to the ground, clutching her stomach.

Aya was shocked, but only for a moment. "So it was YOU all this time! But why work with Kaguya?"

"Hey, fun times make for strange bedfellows. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have fun to continue having."

"Not if I have anything to say about it!"

Aya's dash toward Mokou was interrupted by a giant laser beam. She was sent sprawling to the ground, unconscious and sizzling. Yuka raised her parasol back up above her head and gave a slight grin.

"It's a good thing you don't have anything to say about it, then. The filthy human is mine." Yuka turned toward Mokou and her grin became broader. Mokou returned the favor with a smirk.

"You do realize that fire is super effective against grass, right?"

"I do realize that, yes. The problem - for you - is that I have a running tally on my bedroom wall of the number of corpses that have told me so. Guess I'm adding another scratch tonight." Yuka lowered her parasol to fire another laser at Mokou - before a pair of arms wrapped around her head and snapped her neck. She, too, crumpled to the ground, though her temper was unabated as the odd angle of her neck forced her to stare up at Meiling's disturbingly calm face.

"That hurt! What the hell was that for? Go kill the human, you idiot youkai!"

"Sorry, but a wise woman once said, 'Fun makes for strange bedfellows'. Besides, I could never betray my mistress."

Meiling looked up toward Mokou, ignoring the daggers Yuka was staring at her from below. "Let's go. We have a countryside to wreak havoc on."

---

Thanks to the death of Excal (Sakuya Izayoi), the game is over (mercifully), and Team Scum has won!

I have several things to post before I go to bed, including roles, the Series of Unfortunate Events that was night activities, and my own thoughts on the game. In the meantime, feel free to berate me for wasting everyone's time and energy, as I'll certainly be doing it to myself.

[Kilgamayan]

First, roles:

Team Scum

Godmother (Played by Gatewalker (Hong Meiling)):
- Returns town to Cops (unaffected by Fate Controller's flip)
- Cannot be NKed
- Single night shot of jailer power: target is roleblocked and is unaffected by any and all night actions, including NKs
- Godmother cannot use jailer power, can be NKed and ceases to return town to cops if she carries out the NK (again unaffected by Fate Controller's flip)

Fate Controller (Played by El Cideon (Remilia Scarlet)):
- Picks one person a night that may vote, but not speak, for a whole day, OR
- Picks one person a night that returns the opposite of what they normally would to a cop investigation, OR
- Picks one person a night that may not use their role that night or during the next day
- Fate Controller may not use any of her targeting abilities if she carries out the NK

Vengeful Thug (Payed by Sir Alex (Ran Yakumo)):
- If killed in any way, may choose one additional person to NK the night after death
- Drawback: Vengeful Thug cannot use their extra kill if they are killed the night of or the day after they carry out an NK

Anonyvoter (played by Corwin (Kaguya Houraisan)):
- Has a stock of 5 Anonyvotes that can be used on anyone at any time
- May not use more than 2 Anonyvotes at once in one day
- Anonyvotes may be split between two people at once
- Anonyvotes can be moved around or retracted (and added back to stock) if Impossible Requester wishes to do so at least 12 hours before the voting deadline
- Anonyvotes will appear, move and disappear instantly as soon as the request is sent in
- Anonyvotes cannot be retracted after a votehammer under any circumstances
- Drawback: Anonyvoter may not use any Anonyvotes the following day if she carries out the NK

Phoenix Controller (played by Carthrat (Fujiwara no Mokou):
- Has an "extra life": Can survive being NKed once
- Has three active shots of docbust that can be used when desired
- Drawback: Phoenix Controller may not use her docbust power if she carries out the NK

Tean Town

Kleptomaniac (played by Taishyr (Marisa Kirisame)):
- Targets three players each night and gains one player's role (chosen at random) for the next Day/Night interval only (if applicable)
- Kleptomaniac returns scum to Cops
- If Kleptomaniac roleclaims accurately, she is immediately modkilled (no penalty for a false roleclaim or for roleclaiming a stolen ability) (Kleptomaniac may claim miller status)

Watcher (played by OblivionKnight (Alice Margatroid)):
- Each night, selects one person to watch
- At the end of the night, DollWatcher will be informed if their target performed any actions, as well as who performed actions on them
- If Marisa Kirisame is killed, Alice Margatroid loses her Watcher powers and turns into a Vanilla Townie that flips as "Broken-Hearted Watcher"

Doublevoter (played by EvilTom (Suika Ibuki)):
- Doubled vote weight
- Second vote has a delayed release and will appear as "Anonymous"

Ninja Vigilante (played by AndrewRogue/Excal (Sakuya Izayoi)):
- Has a 50% chance of dodging one NK: Further NK attmepts are unaffected
- Immune to all other night actions
- May choose to attack another player once during the game at any time: attack is treated as a standard NK attack
- If attack is during the day, it is resolved immediately
- Not named when attack is resolved unless so desired
- If Remilia Scarlet is killed, Sakuya Izayoi loses immunity to night actions and starts returning scum to Cops (drawback may not be revealed under penalty of modkill)

Schizophrenic Paladin (played by Yakumo (Flandre Scarlet)):
- Has standard cop powers on odd-numbered nights
- Has standard bodyguard/doctor powers on even-numbered nights
- Role Change: If Remilia Scarlet or Marisa Kirisame is killed, Flandre Scarlet has a 50% chance of turning into an ITP Serial Killer
- Role Change is ignored if the death fulfills a faction's victory conditions

Martyr (played by Chisa (Youmu Konpaku)):
- Each night, Martyr will be informed of who is being killed
- Upon learning of the NK(s), Martyr has the choice of redirecting a single night kill to herself (no night kill prevention means apply in this scenario, such as doc protection)
- If Yuyuko Saigyouji is killed, Youmu Konpaku may only use her Martyr ability once more (drawback may not be revealed under penalty of modkill)

Proximity Mine (played by Tonfa (Yuyuko Saigyouji)):
- If killed, a randomly selected member of the killing party is attacked in return

Illusionist (played by Strago (Reisen Udongein Inaba)):
- Each night, may target one player for roleblock, OR
- Each night, may target two players and redirect all actions targeting the first to the second (including NKs), OR
- Each night, may target one player to gain a 25% chance of avoiding being NKed
- May only select one action each night
- May target self with any action
- If Eirin Yagokoro is killed, Reisen Udongein Inaba gains the additional victory condition of having to take part in at least two lynches of members of the killing party (drawback may not be revealed under penalty of modkill)

Mad Scientist (played by Nitori (Eirin Yagokoro)):
- Each night, may target one player for immunization against night kills
- Once per game, at any time, Mad Scientist may give one player the Hourai Elixir, which grants permanent NK invulnerability
- if Mad Scientist targets herself with the Hourai Elixir, she permanently loses her ability to grant other players NK immunization

Lazy Cop (played by Smodge13 (Komachi Onozuka)):
- Each night, may target one player for alignment inspection
- Drawback: Inspection return is invariably "town" unless target has miller status for the night
- Lazy Cop is unaware of their drawback

SuperCop (played by QuietRain (Sikieiki Yamaxanadu)):
- Each night, may target one player for alignment inspection
- If SuperCop inspects a third party, they are told the target is town with ulterior motives
- If SuperCop investigates anyone else, their true alignment is returned regardless of miller or frame status
- SuperCop is unaware that they are a SuperCop: They are only told they are a cop
- Drawback: SuperCop gains a permanent Anonyvote for every post under 100 words (quoted words and obvious filler words like "blah blah blah blah blah" do not count): three such infractions result in a modkill
- Drawback: SuperCop may not investigate on three consecutive nights

Team Third Party

Latent Serial Killer (played by Shale (Yuka Kazami))

- Starts game as Vanilla Townie
- Role Change: If, at any time, the number of lynched innocent non-humans is at least the number of lynched humans plus 2, Latent Serial Killer changes to the Serial Killer setup (half-humans and Lunarians qualify as humans)

Post-conversion (applies to Flandre Scarlet as well):

- Returns town to Cops
- Highest victory priority
- Can only be Roleblocked once
- Can only be Silenced once
- May kill exactly one person each night if so desired

Yes, 5 scum is a lot for 21 people. I figured that town had enough power roles to make up for it considering SKs would be shooting for scum (and Shale did bag himself one, though it turned out to be the worst possible one).

I sort of wished the Reisen role stuck around longer than it did. Oh well.

[Shale]

Let this trainwreck be a lesson to future DL mods: SANITY-CHECK YOUR GODDAMN SETUPS. Otherwise only suffering can result.

[Carthrat]

What Shale said.

[Kilgamayan]

Now, night actions:

Night 1

Scum kill: EvilTom (by Corwin)
Mokou (Carthrat) docbust? Yes
Meiling (Gatewalker) jail? No
Remilia (El Cideon) fate control? Yes (Frame Cid)

Marisa's (Taishyr) theft targets: Flandre Scarlet (Yakumo), Yuka Kazami (Shale), Sakuya Izayoi (AndrewRogue)
Alice's (OblivionKnight) watch target: EvilTom
Sakuya's (AndrewRogue) vigi target: None
Flandre's (Yakumo) cop target: Corwin
Youmu's (Chisa) defended target: None
Eirin's (Nitori) protection target: EvilTom
Komachi's (Smodge) cop target: Carthrat
Sikieiki's (QuietRain) cop target: EvilTom

Marisa (Taishyr) Stole the Precious Thing from: Sakuya (Andrew) - FAILURE
Alice (OblivionKnight) watches: Corwin, Nitori, QuietRain
Flandre (Yakumo) investigates: Corwin - SCUM
Komachi (Smodge) investigates: Carthrat - TOWN
Sikieiki (Quietrain) investigates: EvilTom - TOWN

Nitori's doc getting busted and Smodge checking Rat were signs of things to come, it seems. I have no idea why Tom claimed Cop, by the way.

Night 2

Scum kill: AndrewRogue
Mokou (Carthrat) docbust? Yes
Meiling (Gatewalker) jail? No
Remilia (El Cideon) fate control? Yes (Roleblock AndrewRogue)

Marisa's (Taishyr) theft targets: Sakuya Izayoi (AndrewRogue), Hong Meiling (Gatewalker), Alice Margatroid (OblivionKnight)
Alice's (OblivionKnight) watch target: AndrewRogue
Sakuya's (AndrewRogue) vigi target: None
Flandre's (Yakumo) doc target: Taishyr
Youmu's (Chisa) defended target: Tonfa
Eirin's (Nitori) protection target: AndrewRogue
Yuka's (Shale) kill target: Tonfa
Komachi's (Smodge) cop target: Gatewalker
Sikieiki's (QuietRain) cop target: Taishyr

Marisa (Taishyr) Stole the Precious Thing from: OblivionKnight - SUCCESS (Watcher)
Alice (OblivionKnight) watches: AndrewRogue - FAILURE
Komachi (Smodge) investigates: Gatewalker - TOWN
Sikieiki (Quietrain) investigates: Taishyr - TOWN (bypass of miller status)
Sakuya (AndrewRogue) one-shot killdodge: Successful

Shale flipped alignment on this night, as the first two lynches (Reisen and Patchouli) were innocent non-humans.

Chisa sent me a monumental PM describing his thought process for what to do, and in the end he made the right call, as it saved Tonfa from Shale and Shale from himself. If Chisa didn't make this call the game would've been over a lot quicker. Smodge manages to "bag" another scum, though at least this time it was the Godfather. Nitori getting docbusted again was a shame, especially since Andrew's successful coinflip led him down the wrong path.

Special: Day 3

About two hours before he was lynched, Nitori nearly saves the game for Team Town when he shoves the Hourai Elixir in Tai's direction. Now Town has a SuperCop-cleared bulletproof thief to work with.

Night 3

Scum kill: Taishyr (by Gatewalker)
Mokou (Carthrat) docbust? Yes
Meiling (Gatewalker) jail? No
Remilia (El Cideon) fate control? Yes (Roleblock OblivionKnight)

Marisa's (Taishyr) theft targets: Alice Margatroid (OblivionKnight), Kaguya Houraisan (Corwin), Reimu Hakurei (Otter)
Marisa's (Taishyr) watch target: Corwin
Alice's (OblivionKnight) watch target: Corwin
Flandre's (Yakumo) cop target: El Cideon
Yuka's (Shale) kill target: Ran
Komachi's (Smodge) cop target: Yakumo

Marisa (Taishyr) Stole the Precious Thing from: Otter - FAILURE
Marisa (Taishyr) watched: Corwin: SEES NO ONE
Alice (OblivionKnight) watches: Corwin - ROLEBLOCKED
Flandre (Yakumo) investigates: El Cideon - SCUM
Komachi (Smodge) investigates: Yakumo - TOWN

The scum chat exploded when Tai didn't die. Of course, no one knew that Tai was bulletproof at that point - he didn't even know it himself until after Nitori got lynched because he wasn't around when I sent the PM telling him what happened, and of course he wasn't going to post at night telling everyone he was bulletproof. Tai even manages to goad Corwin into lying and suddenly the game has turned around, especially since the first time Cid didn't frame himself was the first time it mattered.

Night 4

Scum kill: OblivionKnight (by CarthRat)
Meiling (Gatewalker) jail? No
Remilia (El Cideon) fate control? Yes (Roleblock Taishyr)
Ran (Alex) zombie kill: Taishyr

Marisa's (Taishyr) theft targets: Reimu Hakurei (Otter), Alice Margatroid (OblivionKnight), Komachi Onozuka (Smodge13)
Alice's (OblivionKnight) watch target: Tonfa
Flandre's (Yakumo) doc target: Taishyr
Yuka's (Shale) kill target: Ciato
Komachi's (Smodge) cop target: El Cideon

Marisa (Taishyr) Stole the Precious Thing from: Smodge13 - ROLEBLOCKED
Alice (OblivionKnight) watched: Tonfa - DIES
Komachi (Smodge) investigates: El Cideon - TOWN

Scum chat explodes again when Tai doesn't die because they thought Tai being roleblocked would stop any potential bulletproof-ness - which it technically did, but Yakumo saves the day anyway. I'm ready to strangle myself over Smodge's investigation selections, as he's now seen all 3 remaining scum as town. I sort of wished that Tai wasn't roleblocked on this night, as seeing the Lazy Cop virus spread would have been a fun watch.

Night 5

Scum kill: Yakumo (by Carthrat)
Meiling (Gatewalker) jail? Yes (Tai)

Marisa's (Taishyr) theft targets: Yukari (Halbarad), Yuka (Shale), Flandre (Yakumo)
Flandre's (Yakumo) kill target: Halbarad
Yuka's (Shale) kill target: Otter
Komachi's (Smodge) cop target: Excal

Marisa (Taishyr) Stole the Precious Thing from: Yukari (Hal) - ROLEBLOCKED
Komachi (Smodge) investigates: Excal - SCUM

Sadly, Yakumo's coinflip went the wrong way upon Cid's death, and the extra Hal death all but dooms the townie cause.

Night 6

Scum kill: Excal (with Carthrat)
Yuka kill: Gatewalker - FAILURE

This left the game with 2 scum and 2 non-scum, which is a scum win from what I can discern from some of the scenarios presented in the MafiaWiki. At worst for scum, it becomes a 2 people with 2 votes scenario and the game is decided by a coinflip. I was half-tempted to go this route but I figured the former was what people here would have been used to.

[Shale]

Technically the last day could be a stalemate since neither scum would vote for each other at that point, I wouldn't vote for Tai, and Tai *might* not vote for me, I dunno. But the night would have no SK kill and if they targeted me the game would be over. I'd have to hit Carthrat twice without dying myself for anybody but scum to win, which...not likely.

Anyway, I'm going to say this as tactfully as I can: You seriously outsmarted yourself with these rules. Roles were overcomplicated, often redundantly so, denying townies vital information about good powers turned them into suicidal ones, the modkill restrictions were silly as all hell, and allowing scum to keep playing after their death is just a giant middle finger to town.

[Kilgamayan]

And, finally, thoughts:

I suppose one can tell that a setup is a failure when one dreads updating from Night X to Day X+1 because one knows at least one faction is going to somehow become even more pissed off than they already are. I had been feeling that way since Night 3 or so.

As the scales tipped back and forth throughout the game, I constantly questioned myself as to whether I balanced the game properly or not. In retrospect, I believe that such was not actually the problem: I think the game itself was reasonably balanced. The problem was that I was too obsessed with balancing the game and making cute and clever roles and restrictions that I completely forgot about the human aspect. I forgot we were playing a game, and for this I apologize. My setup may or may not have been balanced and it may or may not have had clever roles, but it wasn't fun to play, it was simply aggravating.

Other key issues:

- WAY too many chance roles. The Klepto I have no problem with, but there were quite a few coin flips and then there was the roulette bomb. It made me sick that a game where every faction was sick of playing came down to a roll of the dice, which was the last thing I would have wanted to do to make people happier.

- I should have taken Sakuya, Youmu and Reisen and made their restrictions kick in automatically if they admitted them rather than out-and-out threaten modkill.

- I really should have had a trigger in place where one player flipping SK shut off the other's trigger entirely. I can't apologize to Yakumo enough for dicking him because I didn't have the foresight to see a scenario like Night 5 coming.

I'm pretty sure I thought of more things throughout the course of the game, but I can't remember them right now and I have to wake up for work in 3 hours so I'm going to leave this here and come back to it later (at which point plenty more people will hopefully have weighed in).