Author Topic: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic  (Read 126077 times)

EvilTom

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1050 on: January 30, 2008, 06:56:17 AM »
Whoa, madness o.o

So very bizarre.. I found it interesting to watch at least. I feel sorry for Smodge; it seems slowcop was more painful than naiive cop. It seems that scum were powerful, but any balancing power town has was nerfed by detrimental powers. Live and learn I guess.

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AndrewRogue

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1051 on: January 30, 2008, 06:57:46 AM »
I... feel the need to say that town was horrendously disadvantaged in this game. Like, really badly. Mediocre/Bad play by some of us (myself included) did not help but...

A good portion of our roles were useless or, worse yet, capable of horrendously backfiring (Supercop, Lazycop, RandoBomb). A couple were disabled or reversed by bad luck. Hell, some of the decent roles were luck dependent. There was a high scum count, and the potential for two third party individuals who would be shooting for town and scum both.

In other words, we were kind of fucked from the get go. Anyhow, catching up on further posts to talk more about other stuff.

Shale

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1052 on: January 30, 2008, 07:01:22 AM »
Also, I would like to point out that for the most part I conducted myself as a townie vigilante. Everybody imagine how much worse this could have been with a full-blown serial killer sowing chaos!
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Kilgamayan

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1053 on: January 30, 2008, 07:05:57 AM »
Oh yeah, I also should have full role flipped for all the roles I invented.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Shale

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1054 on: January 30, 2008, 07:08:51 AM »
Also, what is "ITP"?
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Kilgamayan

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1055 on: January 30, 2008, 07:09:53 AM »
Independent Third Party.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Carthrat

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1056 on: January 30, 2008, 07:13:54 AM »
So uh Tom why'd you claim cop day 1
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QuietRain

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1057 on: January 30, 2008, 07:20:59 AM »
*love and affection for beleagured mod*

It was...interesting, everyone.  And...yeah, what Carth said.
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EvilTom

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1058 on: January 30, 2008, 07:37:24 AM »
Metagame strategy.

I realised that I was going to be mis-lynched, so I figured I'd assist the town by making the most of my death.
I'm the cop.
Going to lynch me? :(
To what end.. ugh..
Claim may as well be too late now though, i've played badly and it's probably too late.
So... i guess it doesn't matter.
Scum will get me even if you guys don't.
Get your votes in our out now, i guess.
Me?  strago or something. eh.
If town had lynched me, scum would have made a NK; end result = guaranteed two town death.

I have a pretty good idea who I can get a good investigation on tonight
I did my best to guarantee that scum would target me. The benefit to town:
a) Town wouldn't waste a lynch or further time on me
b) Scum would waste their NK on someone town wanted to kill, therefore protecting other important town power roles
c) I'd be the obvious pick for the doc, depriving scum of their kill completely.

Parts a) and b) succeeded flawlessly, but part c) was stopped by scum's power of docbust, unfortunately.
Also a part d) lots more info for town. If I'd claimed my correct role or not claimed, then day 2 wouldn't have yielded any useful info. Unfortunately cops were shooting each other in the feet etc.

Miss Ciato picked it up straight away;
Well, I can... well kind of see his tactic here, not that I really agree with it or anything.
Basically, if you are a townie who is about to be lynched and you claim cop, you give the town more chances to find scum rather than lynching you. You also draw a NK that could be wasted on legitimate power roles if the scum choose to play into your hands (which they did!). Since you would be dead without claiming anyway, the fact that you are NKed means you are still dead, but you gave the town another chance to hunt scum.
Or something. >_> It worked pretty much ideally, but it could have been much worse!
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I made the best of a crap situation, with a dicey metagame strategy. Kind of like the strategy where the cop claims doc on day 1, to gain doc protection and draw scum fire/leads.

Will it work again/will I do it again? 'Course not. A 'gambit' like that only works once.
Will it cause people to place less faith in copclaims in the future (as someone complained)? Uh.. if you take claims at face value, town will never win. Sure, as a general rule town shouldn't lie, but these circumstances provided an exception.

I know it pissed off a lot of people, despite my good intentions, but at least now hopefully everyone will understand my motive. I was playing for team town, all your comments were hurtful ;-;
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Tonfa

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1059 on: January 30, 2008, 07:40:29 AM »
Well, during the last day, when making the final posts, I started to have the sneaking suspicion that everyone else in the damn game other than the actual suspects were scum and we were screwed regardless. Turns out this was pretty much correct. >_>

Uhh yeah way too much scum and third party and kills and modkill threats and luck and vengeful thug was just an insult on top of that.
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Ranmilia

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1060 on: January 30, 2008, 07:51:49 AM »
If it makes you feel any better, my extra kill was blocked...

This... yeah.  The role setup was a trainwreck.  Ridiculous powers all around.  I think every faction feels beset upon.  For a while it looked like scum had no chance, either.  In review I think the roles are too screwy to be called balanced one way or the other.  Both sides had ridiculous powers depending on how the game went.  I wasn't kidding about Andrew/Excal's role being one of the most broken I've seen, and having supercop + Hourai Elixir's permanent bulletproof gift in the same game, well... we almost blew even more kills on Tai.  Overcomplex.

Corwin

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1061 on: January 30, 2008, 08:43:05 AM »
Don't take Team Scum's comments too personally.  >_>

Still. Do you not see a clear contradiction in your stated desires (a) and (c)?

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1062 on: January 30, 2008, 09:12:02 AM »
There were... FIVE SCUM IN THIS GAME AND THEY HAD THAT MANY POWERS? And two serial killers? And good lord what the fuck.
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Chisa

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Re: Touhou Mafia Signups
« Reply #1063 on: January 30, 2008, 11:25:35 AM »
So...I made the right call for all the wrong reasons, then.
Phew.  I seriously thought I might've been a triple-bastard SK trigger when it came to endgame.  With this setup, it wasn't such a crazy thought.  A shame my first full mafia was such a powers clusterfuck, but like I said in the game, that's the chances you take with mafia.  Doesn't mean I don't still have the urge to perpetrate violence though.

Okay, enough bitching out of Newbie McDead.  Good job scumbags.  Especially Rat.  I don't think anyone seriously suspected him all game.  Bloody impressive.  We'll see you swing next time though.
And there will be a next time.  Won't be Vampire, because I've got RL things to deal with right now.  But I have every intent of playing again.  So, until then, I suppose I shall return to my massive lurkery.
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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1064 on: January 30, 2008, 11:30:51 AM »
Powers are fun...yeah, I wanted to kill Kilga after he told me there were five scum, and even moreso when he revealed all their roles (especially Rat/Cid.) . Watching everyone run around scared isn't as fun when they're making a valid assumption. Also one more player and I'd be on the winning side for once, since...

22: Nitori Kawashiro - Salvager (Scum)
23: Sanae Kotiya - Vanilla Townie
24: Kanako Yasaka - Vanilla Townie
25: Suwako Moriya - Vanilla Townie

*Salvager:
- Picks exactly one dead player for the whole game and gains their role (if applicable) permanently, OR
- Picks one dead player each night and gains their role for one Day/Night interval (if applicable)
- Salvager will be told if salvaged role is not applicable
- Salvager has choice at beginning of game
- Drawback: Salvager cannot choose a dead player for salvaging if she carries out the NK

Of course Kilga needs to be killed for this painfully and repeatedly for almost having SIX scum. At least scum didn't win through Anonyvote (I can just imagine the sheer hate).
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 11:40:51 AM by Nitori »
<Ko-NitoriisSulpher> roll 1d100 to grade Nitori?
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Ko-NitoriisSulpher rolls 1d100 to grade Nitori? and gets 100." [1d100=100]

Smodge13

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1065 on: January 30, 2008, 12:08:38 PM »
>.> i hit scum 3 times GAH WTF, good game scum you played really weel, next time give me real cop abilities and it will be different ^_^.

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1066 on: January 30, 2008, 01:12:45 PM »
*murders Tom for that lying Cop claim*

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Shale

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1067 on: January 30, 2008, 01:55:34 PM »
I have to say that for all the horrible carnage of the game (and it only gets worse knowing what scum hax we managed to avoid; imagine Corwin in endgame!), it was fun playing third-party for once. I might have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those bulletproof scum!

Oh, and on Tonfa - at first I was convinced that Chisa dying to save him proved that he was town and they were masons or something, to the point where, if it looked like he ever couldn't escape a lynch, I was going to roleclaim just so I'd have grounds to clear him. His roleclaim confused the hell out of me, though, since I couldn't figure out how Chisa could know he was definitely a townie but not know that he was a bomb (since catching a night killer is pretty much the best possible case for one, and why would you intervene to stop that?). That finally makes sense, at least (tying the Martyr to the ONE person the Martyr shouldn't protect is just lame, though).
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 02:25:51 PM by Shale »
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1068 on: January 30, 2008, 04:08:38 PM »
I suspected Gate very little, but I had some fairly strong suspicions about Rat which I thought were just me being incredibly angry with him, so I never actually said anything. Essentially Rat is the reason I stopped playing in this game, and I don't think I'm going to play Mafia anymore after this experience. It's just too hard for me not to take things personally, and it showed. I'm sorry for acting like that, but I can't help my personality being someone who is senstive to such things. I think I'll just play in the games where I really like the themes and that's it from now on~
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 04:48:12 PM by Ciato »
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Carthrat

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1069 on: January 30, 2008, 11:12:24 PM »
Ah, geez, sorry. I *was* trying to rile you up. Was just a scum doing his duty~ ;_;
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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1070 on: January 30, 2008, 11:40:02 PM »
Y'know, that was probably one of the dozens of small things that clicked far too late.  Along with Alex's statement that anyone who gets hung up on post count as opposed to post content is probably scum, and then using that exact same fallacy when he was playing scum.

So, at the very least, not only did Touhou give us a neat little lecture on the merits of looking for scum tells, as well as a debate on the philosophy of which ones to look for, but it also gave us some excellent examples of scum tricks as used in play by experienced players.

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1071 on: January 31, 2008, 12:00:45 AM »
Huh.  Well.

Neat.  I really did enjoy that, for all that it was sometimes a crapshoot.  Still, best game I've played of mafia so far! 

(note that this includes a game that lasted 1 day, and a game where I was a complete n003 in)

I was starting to suspect Rat at the end (as I read through after death).  Gate...well-played.  Very well-played.

Mmm...would anyone be able to do a breakdown of actions and comment on how well people played individually?  Mostly thinking about balance of future games and the like.
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Kilgamayan

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1072 on: January 31, 2008, 12:03:20 AM »
Oh, I almost forgot about this gem from Day 1:

I'm glad at least that El Cideon remains a voice of reason in these troubling times.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Ranmilia

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Re: Touhou Mafia - Main Topic
« Reply #1073 on: January 31, 2008, 01:15:59 AM »
Y'know, that was probably one of the dozens of small things that clicked far too late.  Along with Alex's statement that anyone who gets hung up on post count as opposed to post content is probably scum, and then using that exact same fallacy when he was playing scum.

So, at the very least, not only did Touhou give us a neat little lecture on the merits of looking for scum tells, as well as a debate on the philosophy of which ones to look for, but it also gave us some excellent examples of scum tricks as used in play by experienced players.

Somewhat true, but not quite.  Everything that I did say in this game was something I would have said as a townie.  My tells (at least the ones I'm conscious of) were in what I *didn't* say, the biggest ones being my lack of stubborn opposition to vigging the cop and my letting scumbuddies off the hook for general scumminess and me-tooism. 

Hal's play in this game... really was pretty scummy, I think it bears saying.  He was silent at a lot of critical junctures and while he did have long content posts, they were often not *relevant* content for the day.  He took no stance on Patchcloud, little or no on QR/Tai and stopped posting entirely for the whole duration of Corwin vs Nitori.  Avoiding all those debates entirely and giving town no indication of where you stand is a perfect setup for scum, textbook scumlurk really, we'd have done it if we'd thought town would seriously just let someone off for not posting for days.  The only positions I can remember him really taking at all are me = scum (which was right, but for the wrong reasons, and we were using this to set up the following) and Tonfa = scum (dead wrong and cinched us the game).  You gotta give town some information on yourself and discuss the issues at hand, even if they're sidetracky from what you think is a better case.    Had I been town, I'd have been on Hal even harder than I was (but then he'd OMGUS me to death even faster), or not at all (because of the aformentioned problem and I'd be on him at endgame anyhow.) 

Who played well... with this setup, it's really hard to say.  Lots of people had weird goals.  Me, for instance.  Scum actually benefited if I died, so I really had no self-preservation goal at all.  Much easier to point out mistakes, which might make me sound like Mr. Negative.  Ah well.  Tom!  Don't fakeclaim cop!  Town will kill you before scum does.  Patchcloud!  Don't wall of text and chuck the towel.  Andrew!  Don't lie to town and vig the cop claimant.  Otter!  Stop lurking till day 3 every game.  Scumbuddies, including myself!  Stop groupthinking!!!  Town in general!  Don't let people hide behind "post count=/= content" as an excuse to lurk, presence IS important too, notice how scum often have long rambly 'analysis' posts that are few in number and take no risks.   

Good play...  Well, there's some.

Props to Smodge, for all that we tried to press a case on you, the case itself kind of sprung out of nowhere, you really weren't very scummy at all and supported your claim well.  You done good.

Props to Yakumo for being spot-on with both his copping and his doccing.... even though actually using his protown powers to get a scum lynched resulted in an alignment flip for him, in one of the most glaring WTF parts of the setup.  Courageous man.

Props to Shale, you kept us guessing at who the extra killer was up till the bitter end. 

Props to Excal for being willing to replace in, always a daunting task.

Props to Gate for blending in and making a nice claim call.  Excellent scum play.  Despite fretting about not having time to play, he was actually the one of us in best position all game, even excluding role screwery.