Mog vs Chie: Kind of match of doomy.

[superaielman]

Came up in chat. I was comparing Chie to season 45 Middle, and Mog's in that field. Most of the fights were fairly clearcut, but that one less so.

I'm leaning Chie pretty strongly. She can OHKO, but needs to inflict Fear+OHKO after power charge. Don't think Mog can put her away before that point, with Earth Blues taking two turns to trigger.

[Taishyr]

Dusk Requiem's still better as an option; turn 2 he, at worst, drops her to 25% cHP - and she's spent some on her attack previously, plus it inflicts Seizure which might be enough to ensure that Chie can't Godhand even if the gravity doesn't drop her down enough. That's why I'm leaning Mog (I'm not sure I even see a OHKO, but me and 3x.)

[Ultradude]

I WAS ABOUT TO GO FOR A RUN AND THEN YOU GO AND POST THIS SCREW YOU.

I guess Cave In gets Chie since she can't OHKO on her second turn? Brought down to 25% HP, Seizure nabs the last couple HP to keep her from using God Hand?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

To me, Mog wins. 4x effective PC HP > Power Charge'd God's Hand, even Tarukaja'd, and it's possible that Mog could get into a HP range where Chie can't use that combo twice in the battle. He also should have some evade, which tilts the match a bit further in his favor. It's not a very close match if you allow the Snow Muffler, is definitely a lot closer if you don't (I think Chie may win that, even).

[Ultradude]

His defense is really that effective? Sounds like an easy Mog win then, unless Super's mention of Fear comes easily and really screws Mog up.

[Cmdr_King]

If I have my mechanics/math right, Chie effectively deals around 50-55% damage with a Taru'd/Charge'd Godhand.  She also needs to nail Mog with Fear status to win here, since she really needs to kill him in one blow or or less.  The question is how long it takes to do that (if we're talking 20-30% status rates, she may not have enough HP left afterwards to Godhand at him) and whether Mog is better off to chip at her or try for status in that time.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

His defense is really that effective? Sounds like an easy Mog win then, unless Super's mention of Fear comes easily and really screws Mog up.

Fear is like turn three, and Chie can't keep Power Charge in reserve while she tries for the status, which is a big problem. She needs to inflict the status, then cast PC -then- kill. This leads into the problem CK noted - Mog may well be able to chip into that range where Chie can't GH given the amount of turns he's getting - or to get something that screws her up.

Although... why does she need to inflict Fear to OHKO? That doesn't affect stats, it's just a chance (pretty high, in fairness) to skip the turn, which can be helpful, here but not in the way you're describing. The stat-halving status is Enervation, which I don't think she has.

[Ultradude]

Doesn't Fear give a really huge chance for a critical hit? And God Hand already has a decent crit rate, so I think that's what Super is looking at.

Still, Fear has to be turn 2 for Chie to win, otherwise she gets Cave In'd and doesn't have the HP for God Hand - and that's assuming Mog skips enough turns from Fear for her to PC then GH afterwards.

[Cmdr_King]

Are you sure fear doesn't cause you to take additional damage?  I suppose it's easy to mix up different statuses/mix up the P3 versions of statuses, but... I definitely remember Fear -> ARGHPAIN.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

That's because Fear also increases your odds of a crit and the rate of turn-skipping is really high. It also leaves you vulnerable to Ghastly Wail. I think P3 Fear -did- have stat-busting properties, but the separation into Fear and Enervation should show this isn't the case in P4.

[Talaysen]

I also recall fear also giving a hefty damage boost.  Like 2x or something silly.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Funny, I don't remember -that-. You may be right anyway, but that's a lot of damage-boosting status going, unless they changed Rage to not double the damage you take.

[Taishyr]

Nope, Rage does, too. (Or, at least, Rage does; can't say for sure on Fear right now.)

[Mad Fnorder]

Spoiled, really. Unfortunate that Mog can block confuse storebought, otherwise Chie could lock him down with that, certainly going first. Mog is just too tanky for someone who (is forced to be) full physical.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

BUFULA HYPE ZOMG

(lol.)

EDIT: to make things even more insulting, it's not entirely impossible that Mog resists Ice with the Snow Muffler. That'd just be sad.

[Cmdr_King]

Snow Muffler nulls ice entirely, actually.  'sides, Mog's Mdef is pretty badass itself, she probably would do more (or similar) damage with unboosted Godhand.

[Taishyr]

Quick comment in here: after some informal testing, Fear on enemies is mainly just a turn-skip function. I've not seen any increase in damage, though a boost in crit rate's possible.

[TranceHime]

As far as I know, I've seen crit rate boosts against enemies inflicted with Fear, however, the boost is negligible.

Enough has been mentioned about this that any further input from me would be pretty redundant.

[Starphoenix das Helpoemer]

Doesn't Chie get a high activation rate of Rage on her Punk Shoes? That nerfs damage overall, and forces Mog to play the game Chie wants to play between her evade and High Counter.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

High activation translates to turn three. By that point, Chie's not in a great position to try getting anything going, and she's unlikely to enjoy Raged physicals with Miori Shirt when that effect runs out, given the massive defense hit.

[Tide]

Not to mention Rage is somewhat akin to FF6 Berserk and therefore Mog can block it with the Peace Ring if you allowed status blockers?