Author Topic: Season 52, Week 1 (Read 3584 times)

Dhyerwolf · « **on:** May 30, 2009, 08:43:30 AM »

Godlike:
Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT)
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Deis (BoFs)
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN)
Chaos (FF1) vs. Zenon (Dis2)

Heavy:
Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude (FFT)
Vayne (MK) vs.Reno (FF7)
Tiamat (FF1) vs. Jerin (Lufia 1)
Jr. (XSs) vs. Mithos (ToS)

Middle:
Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1)
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay (MK)
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3)
Shinji (P3) vs. Yang (FF4)

Light:
Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2)
Garet (GS) vs. Lyonesse (Brig)
Duessel (FE8) vs. Mint (ToP)
Frank (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3)

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30, 2009, 08:51:58 AM »

Godlike:
Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT)
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Deis (BoFs)
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN)
Chaos (FF1) vs. Zenon (Dis2)- Hmm

Heavy:
Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude (FFT)- Gut
Vayne (MK) vs.Reno (FF7)
Tiamat (FF1) vs. Jerin (Lufia 1)
Jr. (XSs) vs. Mithos (ToS)

Middle:
Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1)- OHKOs or something. Go DoS
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay (MK)
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3)- Gut reaction of blocks Sleep+kills first
Shinji (P3) vs. Yang (FF4)- Don't think High Counter reflects back statuses, so Shinji will still stay sleep locked, I think.

Light:
Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2)
Garet (GS) vs. Lyonesse (Brig)- Really accurate, if OPB, stun makes this easy enough.
Duessel (FE8) vs. Mint (ToP)
Frank (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3)

OblivionKnight · « **Reply #2 on:** May 30, 2009, 11:55:46 AM »

Godlike:
Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT) - Hell Storm smashes.
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Bleu (BoFs) - Deamoned. Not really a contest at all. Deamoned was what, 150 AD? Bleu's only dealing 250 damage effectively in that case.
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN) - Magus.
Chaos (FF1) vs. Zenon (Dis2) - Chaos. Infinite full healing for the win

Heavy:
Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude (FFT) - Zero. Comes before "I" in the order of numbers.
Vayne (MK) vs.Reno (FF7) - Reno. Pyramid
Tiamat (FF1) vs. Jerin (Lufia 1) - Jerin. Mirror is pretty evil.
Jr. (XSs) vs. Mithos (ToS) - Mithos. Retribution hits Jr. with something that rapes him - paralysis most likely (50% chance character won't perform their actions, i.e., attack), as well as some stat breaks.

Middle:
Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1) - Lich.
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay (MK) - Flay.
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3) - Beatrice. Boss.
Shinji (P3) vs. Yang (FF4) - Shinjiro Aragaki.

Light:
Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2) - Kahn. Tiger Fist is that awesome.
Garet (GS) vs. Lyonesse (Brig) - Garet.
Duessel (FE8) vs. Mint (ToP) - Mint.
Frank (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3) - Frank.

Taishyr · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2009, 12:05:40 PM »

Dhyer: Can't vouch for P3 High Counter reflecting status back, but it definitely does in P4 - Enervated Chie too often due to that.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #4 on:** May 30, 2009, 12:09:44 PM »

Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT) - I -think- EBO Zophar can slug at least this well.
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN) - Christ, this is ugly.

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude Tingel (FFT) - Breaks do nothing particularly relevant to Calamitous Arts. Izlude gets blown out.
Vayne Aurelius (MK) vs. Reno (FF7) - Welp, there's Reno going to the semis.
Tiamat (FF1) vs. Jerin (Lufia 1) - Mirror probably isn't even necessary, but hey.

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1) - Milda blocks paralysis? News to me. Not sure it matters given the egregious speed difference and her inability to 2HKO after Milda Hit crushes her SP.
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay Gunnar (MK) - Pretty stars.
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly Pendragon (S3) - Lilly doesn't block sleep to me. Kneejerk she loses even if she -did-, huge durability difference here.
Shinjiro Aragaki (P3) vs. Yang (FF4) - Gutcheck. Shinji reflecting the status if HC kicks in makes the match sorta interesting, but Yang has too much of a statistical edge. EDIT: Build also ignores counters to boot, so Yang just uses that instead because he's faster by a ton and Shinji doesn't even come terribly close to OHKOing him with PC GH, let alone a non-charged one. Dur.

Light:

Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2) - hur.
Duessel (FE8) vs. Mint Adenade (ToP) - Mint vs. counters and Killers. Yeah, that'll work.
Frank Goldfinger (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3) - Noes.

074 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 30, 2009, 12:48:33 PM »

Godlike:
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Deis (BoFs) - Deamoned used HP->1! It's super-effective!
Chaos (FF1) vs. Zenon (Dis2) - Nontyped Magic Damage. Chaos hates this.

Middle:
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3) - ...yeah. Lilly respect is low here.
Shinji (P3) vs. Yang (FF4) - I'm pretty certain I've had a status-carrying physical reflected in P3, and reflect the status. And even then, haven't played remake.

superaielman · « **Reply #6 on:** May 30, 2009, 12:50:47 PM »

Godlike:
Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT)- Unclose.
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Deis (BoFs)
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN)- EDIT: Magus ID is nontyped. Never mind.
Chaos (FF1) vs. Zenon (Dis2) Don't see Chaos walling star magic.

Heavy:
Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude (FFT)- Yeah, weapon break not matter changes things here fairly notably.
Vayne (MK) vs.Reno (FF7)- Reno in Heavy is a bad joke.
Tiamat (FF1) vs. Jerin (Lufia 1)

Middle:
Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1)- Milda really has nothing after that one shot.
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay (MK) Light vs Heavy is usually like this.
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3)- Lilly crushes if I allow the sleep blocking. Still chewing on that part of it.

Light:
Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2)
Garet (GS) vs. Lyonesse (Brig)- Lyonesse easily knocks Garet's status down to turn two. She however is likely OHKOed, she's weak to fire and is castworst at taking physicals. Wait no, Fairies are a bit worse but have more evade!!
Frank (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3)- Die Frank.

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #7 on:** May 30, 2009, 02:40:34 PM »

dsdfdsdf

Pyro · « **Reply #8 on:** May 30, 2009, 04:39:56 PM »

Godlike:
Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT): Say it with me now: Boom.
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Deis (BoFs): Blitz works.
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN): Well, this isn't close.
Chaos (FF1) vs. Zenon (Dis2): Non-elemental magic damage.

Heavy:
Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude (FFT)
Vayne (MK) vs. Reno (FF7): Aroma Material.
Tiamat (FF1) vs. Jerin (Lufia 1): Jerin needing Mirror here is a joke.
Jr. (XSs) vs. Mithos (ToS): Not thinking too much about this one. Never finished XS3.

Middle:
Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1)
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay (MK): Outclasses.
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3): Offhand I think everyone's favorite dream demon is more than 1.5 PCHP durability, and she should 3HKO Lilly.
Shinji (P3) vs. Yang (FF4): I guess.

Light:
Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2)
Garet (GS) vs. Lyonesse (Brig)
Duessel (FE8) vs. Mint (ToP)
Frank (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3)

Talaysen · « **Reply #9 on:** May 30, 2009, 05:42:33 PM »

Quote from: Jo'ou Ranbu on May 30, 2009, 12:09:44 PM

Shinjiro Aragaki (P3) vs. Yang (FF4) - Gutcheck. Shinji reflecting the status if HC kicks in makes the match sorta interesting, but Yang has too much of a statistical edge. EDIT: Build also ignores counters to boot, so Yang just uses that instead because he's faster by a ton and Shinji doesn't even come terribly close to OHKOing him with PC GH, let alone a non-charged one. Dur.

Um, despite the name, High Counter is NOT a counter. It's quite clearly a reflection.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #10 on:** May 30, 2009, 05:50:23 PM »

The reflection itself is a counter. Am I missing anything?

OblivionKnight · « **Reply #11 on:** May 30, 2009, 05:59:41 PM »

It's basically a passive Tetrakarn that has a % chance to kick in. Not really a counter, unless you consider Tetrakarn (the spell) a counter. It's a physical barrier, moreso.

superaielman · « **Reply #12 on:** May 30, 2009, 06:30:15 PM »

Build gives it less chances to kick in, so it's worth using regardless.

Ultradude · « **Reply #13 on:** May 30, 2009, 06:40:40 PM »

Godlike:
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN): Boss form is easy, think he kills before PC hits with Black Hole.

Heavy:
Jr. (XSs) vs. Mithos (ToS): Jr.'s speed almost makes this interesting.

Middle:
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3): ...4HKOs, barely avoids getting 3HKOd.
Shinji (P3) vs. Yang (FF4): Speed + durability beats High Counter I think?

Light:
Duessel (FE8) vs. Mint (ToP): Duessel crit hype...?

SnowFire · « **Reply #14 on:** May 30, 2009, 07:50:23 PM »

Jr. (XSs) vs. Mithos (ToS) - I don't think Retribution even particularly matters here. XS1 Jr. gets outslugged unless you have negative respect for Mithos' HP. XS3 Jr. has healing... but his overkill speed isn't as good as the stat topic would indicate. The stat topic is going off straight Speed scores, but there's a hefty random component to XS3 initiative added to them, so the curve is flatter than it looks. And it's turn-based speed anyway, which doesn't get crazy double turn hype from me at least. Anyway, 3x hits from Judgment would splatter Jr. (below average HP), and while this is not very common for the hits to cluster that close, Jr. has to heal literally every turn to not risk getting murdered by a more common double hit from Judgment. So he opens with Overtaker and does damage on doubleturns and boost turns. And XS3 Jr.'s damage is bad. This is giving Mithos way too long to get lucky (both his forms have Judgment anyway). XS3 Jr. is a pretty good Heavy, but yeah, spoiled hardcore - his status is useless, as is Phantom Fly.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #15 on:** May 30, 2009, 10:37:51 PM »

Godlike:
Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT): Yeah.
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Deis (BoFs): Unsure. Deis probably 3-2s, probably isn't OHKOed, and... may 3HKO. Stat crunching required here. Ned needs fewer assumptions so I have no problem with people kneejerking his way, though.
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN): Uhhh yeah.

Heavy:
Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude (FFT): Yup.
Vayne (MK) vs. Reno (FF7): Pyramid~

Middle:
Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1): Probably. Even if Milda can block paralysis I think Lich's pdur is too tough.
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay (MK): Flay is really good against evade-subject physical sluggers.
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3): I dunno. Pretty good slugfest offhand.

Light:
Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2): Better.
Frank (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3): And Kosanji draws a competent Light. Oh well.

Sir Donald 3.2 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 31, 2009, 03:34:06 AM »

Magus vs Mewtwo -

PC Magus has to rely on Black Hole hitting on Turn 2... and Mewtwo staying within the attack's range for both attempts. Unless Ol' Pipedreamer relied on just the average numbers of enemies and didn't notice the range aspect. (I only used it once or twice but it seems reasonably accurate within range.) Though I do have to ask, why would Black Hole being "nontyped ID" matter? And what do you mean by that, anyway?

Anyway, the only way Boss Magus can win is if you consider the Elemental Barrier to block all elements except for the four possibles (which Pokemon has all of). Otherwise, Mewtwo takes Magus down even if you don't allow Magus to be hit by the Stat-change Property of Psychic. (Of course, with 3 Amnesias, the Stat-Change property of Psychic won't come into play at all.) Heck, FRLG Mewtwo would even win, even without the Stat Changes hitting, though it would take a lot longer. But, again, it all depends on how the Barrier is interpreted vs. non-in-game elements.

Leaning Mewtwo because the "Block/Absorb all" interpretation fails when you test against "what if Magus' opponent's RPG has no such thing as elements?" Still willing to hear clarifications re: Black Hole.

Tiamat vs Jerin - Mirror hitting a lot of crazy *minor explicative* in-game really hurts Tiamat. And Jerin has the MP pool to go the distance.

FF Heroes vs L-Block - But it needs a little help from its 6 Friends...

Talaysen · « **Reply #17 on:** May 31, 2009, 06:07:08 AM »

Quote from: Jo'ou Ranbu on May 30, 2009, 05:50:23 PM

The reflection itself is a counter. Am I missing anything?

You're missing the part where a counter is when the person attacks back. With their own offense stats, etc. High Counter reflects damage, so it is actually the attacker's offense stats doing the damage, and the defender's not actually doing anything. Hence, a reflection, not a counter.

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #18 on:** May 31, 2009, 08:38:12 AM »

Quote

Though I do have to ask, why would Black Hole being "nontyped ID" matter?

Super probably figured at first that it was Dark. Since he's only played LG and thus votes on pokemon based off that alone.... yeah.

James_xeno · « **Reply #19 on:** May 31, 2009, 12:54:22 PM »

A few notes on the Lich and Milda fight.

Milda does block paralysis through either a store bought Talisman (block everything 100%) or Paralysis Charm, and could get 40% resistence with a Scarab. (also store bought)

--

'Milda Hit' does 228% of average damage and 91% of the Kill point alone, and her physical is 30% KP damage. Both a Milda Hit and a physical does 121%, with a second physical at around 151% of the KP! *Remember, this is Middle we're talking about..* Lich may have goodish defence, but his HP and overall durability isn't that great, and he goes down rather quickly. I'm not seeing where all this Lich durability hype is coming from.

On the other side. Milda has great HP, the highest (147% average) during her time in the party and 2nd highest overall. Besting even the end game PCs. (118% average) With ok, to good defence, depending on her equipment.

Lich is going to have some problems (having no status help) taking on Milda with only 3HKO (Ice 2) damage. Especially given what the best store bought equipment available at the time are. More specifically, 70% ice resistence gained from the Moonlight Shield (20%) and Mink Coat (50%). With that, Lich goes from 3HKO to 4HKO damage against average HP.

If you feel that she has any reason to worry about physicals, she could always go for the Aura Armor (+35 (+10 over MC) defense, +1 (10%?) skill power level) and still hold on to a 20% ice resistence. If you don't hold her to period specific equipment, she could opt for a Devil's Robe (+32 (+7 over MC) defense, +20% all magic resistance). As well as a few other things.

When you take HP into account, Lich's damage falls off to 5HKO. A speed advantage isn't enough to overcome that.

Meeplelard · « **Reply #20 on:** May 31, 2009, 02:53:12 PM »

Godlike:
Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT): Zophar vs. Not-Zophar Spoiler.
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Deis (BoFs): Deis 1 vs. Deamoned...kneejerk in Deamoned's favor, I guess. Absolute Defense + HP should be enough to weather a beating from Deis long enough, I'd think. Deis 2 I think gets OHKOed after Shed, and is somewhat less on damage than Deis 1, IIRC.
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN): Mewtwo is one of Magus' worst nightmares as a draw. Both Mewtwo forms main damage is (effectively) high powred Non-Elemental magic, has idiotic speed, an amazing Defense buffers, and enough healing. Magus could hit Mewtwo's weakness...except Mewtwo has no reason to provoke a counter til after he's fully buffed, and Amnesia x3 is more than enough to offset his weakness to Dark in the FRLG form.
Chaos (FF1) vs. Zenon (Dis2): I don't have that much respect for Zenon's HP...but its still considerably better than Chaos to me! >_>

Heavy:
Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude (FFT): Typical Scenario of Zero in a Heavy Slugfest, which happens to be his forte (...and no, that isn't a pun for how Absolute Zero happens to look exactly like Bass, and Bass' japanese name is Forte DAMN IT!)
Vayne (MK) vs. Reno (FF7): Pyramid, move on.
Tiamat (FF1) vs. Jerin (Lufia 1): Jerin's got speed and healing; that should be enough to play defensively against Tiamat.
Jr. (XSs) vs. Mithos (ToS): Jr. doesn't do well against bosses like Mithos.

Middle:
Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1): From what I remember, milda had a lot of HP (but not Gadwin level), and Milda Hit is obscene; I think that's enough to take out Lich.
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay (MK): Better.
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3): Also better!
Shinji (P3) vs. Yang (FF4): Would be better if I had, you know, played P3 <_<

Light:
Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2): Rune vs. Runeless.
Garet (GS) vs. Lyonesse (Brig): I don't believe Lyonese is a fan of good physical damage.
Duessel (FE8) vs. Mint (ToP): For Mint to ever go on the offensive mean she triggers a counter. For her to play defensively means she eventually gets a Crit.
Frank (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3): Even the best of the Suikodogs is weak.

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #21 on:** May 31, 2009, 03:26:19 PM »

Godlike:
Zophar (Lunar2) Vs. Altima (FFT)
Deamoned (BoF5) vs. Deis (BoFs)
Magus (CT) vs. Mewtwo (PKMN)
Chaos (FF1) vs. Zenon (Dis2)

Heavy:
Zero (MMXCM) vs. Izlude (FFT)
Vayne (MK) vs.Reno (FF7)
Jr. (XSs) vs. Mithos (ToS)

Middle:
Lich (FF1) vs. Milda (G1)
Belenus (VP) vs. Flay (MK)
Beatrice (WA3) vs. Lilly (S3)

Light:
Kahn (S2) vs. Nina (S2)
Garet (GS) vs. Lyonesse (Brig)
Frank (SH3) vs. Kosanji (S3)

Pretty boring set of matches.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #22 on:** May 31, 2009, 05:26:43 PM »

On Lich/Milda:

James' post made me think "huh, I'm underestimating Milda" and went to hit up the stat topics. I have two conclusions from this:

1. Milda likely does indeed beat Lich in a slugfest. For some reason I thought her physical was worse. Even if Lich 5-4's her, I'm not certain he can deal with 150% damage. Maaybe, but leaning no.
2. Sleep 2 exists. I forget this move of Lich's because it rarely matters. Anyway, Sleep 2 is a turn cancel move, effectively. Can't be immuned, 90% hit rate. Since it's only a turn cancel, and spamming it endlessly is asking for it to fail at a bad time, it's useless against anyone who is near Lich in speed (or faster). Unfortunately Milda is not that, she is super slow. Lich should be able to parlay that into a win here, since he's one hit away from winning anyway, he just needs to doubleturn her once.

Lich actually doesn't put up a bad showing against Ghaleon, but he does lose because sooner or later luck goes badly against him, and he takes too long to kill while Ghaleon OHKOs him. Still funny.

hinode · « **Reply #23 on:** May 31, 2009, 06:35:16 PM »

I'm not sure about the original version, but DoS Lich takes 1/3 the physical damage of randoms in his dungeon, which is insane. He's over 1.5x physical durability by a decent margin to me, and can beat up good physical sluggers like FE Raven or ShF Max.

He also gets his ass kicked by Priscilla, but that's another matter.

News:

Author Topic: Season 52, Week 1 (Read 3584 times)

Taishyr