The DL Tweak League: Noms

[Taishyr]

(Inspiration from Excal's Twink League)

Okay, a slight twist on the usual here. You all are at least somewhat familiar with the Twink League and the boost that characters get there.

Well, this is just a bit different. We aren't aiming for High Godlikes here. We're aiming for the Heavy/Godlike border. And, of course, so that I don't flood it with SMT and Persona games (which are the main ones I know how to fiddle with, natch), I'm opening this up to suggestions from the DL.

As a general example, here's two ideas which will probably see use:

Relm (w/Phoenix, Carbuncle Espers mastered) (Reflect, Haste, Safe, Shell, WARP, Cure3, Life3, Fire3)
Ramza (399 JP in all non-Calc jobs)    

Feel free to suggest anything, though know that I'm more likely to choose people from high-draw/ranked games just on the principle of tweaked people being somewhat harder to vote on in theory, thus having a complete obscura with odd tweaks would be, quite perhaps, more hardcore than I'm willing to venture into here.

Also note that I may very well pepper you with questions if I need clarification; thus, any nods will include the nommer.


Full List of Season 1 Participants:

1) Relm (FF6 SNES)
DL legal equip options
Phoenix, Carbuncle materia mastered (Spells: Reflect, Haste, Safe, Shell, WARP, Cure3, Life3, Fire3)
Sponsor: Taishyr

2) Ramza (FFT)
DL legal equip options
Can acquire any abilities (secondary/reaction/innate/move, if viewed as practical) that costs 399 or less. Calculator abilities cannot be used.
Sponsor: NEB/Taishyr

3) Tengaar (S2)
DL legal equip options
Mother Earth+Darkness runes
Sponsor: Snow

4) Dias (SO2 PSX)
DL legal + two Atlas Ring accessories.
No other changes
Sponsor: super

5) Cecil (FF4DS)
DL legal equip options
Counter and Darkness augments
Sponsor: Meeple

6) Gogo (FF6 SNES)
DL legal equip options
Any solo-usable skills as options
Sponsor: Meeple

7) Yulie (WA4)
DL legal + Castle Wall (null first attack/attack chain in a battle), Speed Skates (improve speed first turn to ~Jude's level, not guaranteed but likely), Knight Guard (DEF +25, MGP -25) accessories
No other changes
Sponsor: SnowFire

8) Luneth (FF3DS)
DL legal equip options
Can choose any job except Onion Knight, depending on the battle.
Sponsor: SnowFire

9) Blue (SaGa)
DL legal equip options
990 HP, entire skillset minus Tower/Overdrive.
Sponsor: Laggy

10) Serge (CC)
DL legal equip options
White elements (no offensive ones aside from Saints) + Dreamer's Sarong (7 elemental levels at start of battle. Reminder: Serge's slots are 8 8 8 7 5 4 4 4. See this post for elemental info
Sponsor: DjinnAndTonic

11) Mitsuru (P3)
See this post.
No skillset changes.
Sponsor: OK.

12) Quistis
DL legal + 100 Full-lifes -> HP-J, 4x Status Defense junction slots, 1x Elemental Defense junction slot.
No other changes. (Estimated result: Quistis is 2.2x PCHP, limit is 0.77x PCHP)
Sponsor: SnowFire

13) Heracross
See this post.
Sponsor: The Pokemon squad (Sir Donald, Ultradude, hinode, Yoshiken, others I'm sure I'm neglecting

14) Sasarai
Full S3 equip choice, Yellow Scarf full blocker equipped.
Flowing Rune slot unlocked, full non-True Wind/Lightning/Fire/Water rune choice.
Sponsor: Neph/self, kinda

15) Meru
Equips changed: see this post.
No other changes.

16) Garet
See this post for complete details.
Sponsor: Ultradude

17) DL DEFENDER Nel Zepher

18) DL DEFENDER Marcello

FINAL BOSS: Vincent (FF7) w/ 5x Master Magic/Magic Counter combo materias. Will be Hatbot-piloted. ^_^

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Tengaar (Mother Earth Rune+Darkness Rune, running off both her best affinities. Basically adds ID and draining to her spoiling game. Makes her a lot nastier, but she still has issues with her stats being subpar and running off only average speed.)

[Nephrite]

Does Sasarai with a Yellow Scarf count for this?

[superaielman]

1. Lich Saradin with a Demon's ring. (OB)
2. Dias with two Atlas Rings.  (SO2)

[Meeplelard]

FF4DS Cecil w/ a few Augments. Darkness and Counter come to mind.  Basically, Cecil uses Darkness, and becomes idiotically anti physical as a result, and wiht his healing, can tank some.  FF4DS Cecil, worth noting, is an even BETTER tank than FF4o for a number of reasons, so this sounds like a bigger upgrade than you'd think.

ALTERNATIVELY! Kain w/ Darkness, Counter, and Limit Break augments.  Should let him do actual sick damage with Jump.

Some sort of not insane Crisis Core Zack set up; I'll come up with something reasonable, don't worry!  Mostly thinking something like Hell Firaga + Curaga + Wall, but I have to work out what would actually be fair.

Locke with Offering.  Doubles his innate damage, makes his low HP damage ABSOLUTELY OBSCENE, turning him into a weird limit fighter.  Also gives him turn 2 instant death with Wing Edge.  

Gogo with Skills.  Yes, I mean everyone he can use by himself (so no, Not Magic for example.)  2HKO damage from Blitz, a bunch of fun options from Rage and Lores, and limited Physical Immunity from Throw, are the main things he gets, backed up by his good speed.  This sounds absolutely obscene until you remember Gogo still can't take hits worth shit.


FF7 Tifa equipped with Master Fist, Double Cut Materia, Cursed Ring, under Sadness Status.  Set up lets her dish out 10k~ damage a turn, off good speed, and due to Sadness status, is pretty damn tanky, though she pretty much will never be able to pull off a Limit either.  If this set up needs any extra oomph, playing around with giving her Counter Attack Materia couldn't hurt (should do about 4k~ damage a hit).  Alternatively, if its a little too good, make Double Cut not mastered, so  lowering her damage to about 8k.  Could also play around with her armor if she needs to be better (like ziedrich adds damage *AND* makes her even tankier, though that might be going overboard.)

[DjinnAndTonic]

Hehe, this is pretty cool. I don't have a Heavy/Godlike to submit, but I have had this sitting around since Excal's last Twink League.

I wanted to see what a twinked Disgaea character could do. In-game, you can make some fun setups by having characters make pupils and learning skills from them. Particularly magic. Flonne is the best natural mage of the PCs, and she can pull out some decent damage with Tera Star, but it's still only a 2HKO.  Adding bows to the mix, she at least has some decent status options. If you allowed the stat buff she would get from the Cleric and Star Mage pupils, she'd have some more SP and RES to work with. But I imagine that you'd still want to take this against an average of the PC cast with pupils, too, so the net gain she would get from this is negligible. Otherwise, see the averages in OK's topic, because that's what I based my calculations off of.

Flonne Lv75 (Cleric, Star Mage pupils; Bow mastery, Staff mastery)
AKA: What Flonne was designed to do, but has no DL legal claim to.

Heal: 450HP healed; 4SP
Mega Heal: 600HP healed; 15SP
Giga Heal: 1000HP healed; 40SP
Omega Heal: 2400HP healed; 100SP

Espoir: Dispel negative status; 10SP

Braveheart: Atk up ~30%, stacks; 8SP
Shield: Def up ~30%, stacks; 8SP
Magic Boost: Int up ~30%, stacks; 8SP
Magic Wall: Res up ~30%, stacks; 8SP

Poison Arrow: 410 physical damage, Poison 50%; 3SP
Dark Flash: 490 physical damage, Deprave 50%; 10SP
Delta Split: 640 physical damage, Sleep 50%; 20SP
Sturmhimmel: 640 physical damage, Paralyze 50%; 32SP
Zielregen: 780 fire-elemental physical damage, Forget 50%, 65SP
Doppelganger: 950 physical damage; 100SP

Power of Love: Healing. Sigh. Cannot target self.
Holy Arrows: 880 magical damage; 40SP
Divine Ray: 950 magical damage; 100SP

Star: 520 magical damage (star-elemental/nonelemental); 6SP
Mega Star: 715 magical damage; 15SP
Giga Star: 900 magical damage; 40SP
Omega Star: 1120 magical damage; 100SP
Tera Star: 1370 magical damage; 200SP

Counter 0
Move 5
Jump 15
HP: 1072 (1122)
SP: 454 (674)
ATK: 238 (288)
DEF: 171 (1161)
HIT: 309
INT: 482 (1522)
SPD: 345
RES: 409

She might be a low Heavy due to 2HKO and Full Healing? Maybe. She also has a slew of turn 2 statuses, but she has to sacrifice a decent amount of damage for it. Use her if you need a scrub, I suppose.

[SnowFire]

Yulie w/ Castle Wall, Speed Shoes, & Knight Guard.  Makes it a lot easier to set up her game.

Alternatively..  Lilka with Magic Attack Up, Magic Defend Up, Physical Defend Up, and plowing the rest of her PS points into status resistance.  Another staller; will matches ever end?

[Yoshiken]

First thing that comes to mind for me are Pokemon with items/TMs~

Blastoise w/Wacan Berry
 - Rain Dance, Water Pulse, Focus Blast, Ice Beam.
 ~ Wacan Berry negates the electric weakness, which is pretty common around the DL, and Water Pulse/Ice Beam give chances for status. Focus Blast is powerful, a Special Fighting attack and can lower Sp. Def, and Torrent + Rain Dance + Water Pulse is likely to kill quickly for when it's struggling. Still has terrible Speed and average Sp. Atk, though.

Pikachu w/Light Ball
 - Thunderbolt, Surf, Volt Tackle, Swift
 ~ Light Ball doubles its Sp. Atk, already making it above-average, and Surf & Thunderbolt are naturally powerful attacks, with Thunderbolt having added paralysis. Swift is for the evade-happy/elemental-immune, and Volt Tackle is the physical-based attack to deal with high MDef. Of course, if it can't OHKO, it's likely to get OHKO-ed itself, with terrible HP & defences.

[Talaysen]

But I imagine that you'd still want to take this against an average of the PC cast with pupils, too, so the net gain she would get from this is negligible. Otherwise, see the averages in OK's topic, because that's what I based my calculations off of.

I figured the new setups were taken against DL-legal PC averages.  Doing otherwise ruins the point of some tweaks (most notably, damage averages go up).

[Meeplelard]

Blastoise w/Wacan Berry
 - Rain Dance, Water Pulse, Focus Blast, Ice Beam.
 ~ Wacan Berry negates the electric weakness, which is pretty common around the DL, and Water Pulse/Ice Beam give chances for status. Focus Blast is powerful, a Special Fighting attack and can lower Sp. Def, and Torrent + Rain Dance + Water Pulse is likely to kill quickly for when it's struggling. Still has terrible Speed and average Sp. Atk, though.

First off, Blastoise doesn't have bad speed; its fairly close averagish (might be even above depending on what Generation average you use.)

Next off, this set up...is honestly not up to the standards of Tweak League.  We're aiming for Heavy/Godlikes after all.  This set up is, beyond lacking Lightning weakness, is overall worse than DL Blastoise if you ask me.  No Hydro Cannon building up potential like DL Blastoise has, by definition is against the Gen 4 damage average which is MUCH higher, and Focus Blast < Hydro Pump by a rather significant amount for raw damage.  Unless you mean "Add these moves to Blastoise's potential skillset", but I think he already gets Rain Dance.  Additionally, I don't think those 3 other moves are enough.  Blastoise needs a much larger push in the DL to get to that H/G border.

Pikachu w/Light Ball
 - Thunderbolt, Surf, Volt Tackle, Swift
 ~ Light Ball doubles its Sp. Atk, already making it above-average, and Surf & Thunderbolt are naturally powerful attacks, with Thunderbolt having added paralysis. Swift is for the evade-happy/elemental-immune, and Volt Tackle is the physical-based attack to deal with high MDef. Of course, if it can't OHKO, it's likely to get OHKO-ed itself, with terrible HP & defences.

With the exception of now having Surf, that Pikachu set up more or less exists in the stat topic.  Pikachu aint getting out of Middle with it, despite the damage, cause his durability is just that awful. 

I know you're trying to make interesting Pokemon Twinks, but these just aren't very different from their DL selves, and these particular two need a huge boost to get to that H/G border we're aiming at.  Additionally, I don't think its reasonably possible for Pikachu to get high enough for Tweak League; the damage isn't ever going to be a OHKO, he lacks any "Auto Win" tricks, and the durability seals his fate.

[Yoshiken]

Ehh, those were just general ideas with no research past "Hey, what can this learn?". I can understand the reasoning behind the Pikachu, but I'd still say Blastoise can easily be made pretty powerful - optimum EV/nature stats, perhaps? Change the moveset however, but I'm fairly sure that the Wacan Blastoise with added attacks can easily be H/G.
I'll admit, those probably need a lot of work, but I'm fairly sure those can at least reach top-Heavy, if not H/G quite easily. (With stat abuse, naturally.)

[DjinnAndTonic]

But I imagine that you'd still want to take this against an average of the PC cast with pupils, too, so the net gain she would get from this is negligible. Otherwise, see the averages in OK's topic, because that's what I based my calculations off of.

I figured the new setups were taken against DL-legal PC averages.  Doing otherwise ruins the point of some tweaks (most notably, damage averages go up).

Fair point. The only difference this makes is really to SP and RES, though.

So... she gets about 250 more SP to work with (one more shot of Tera Star!) and she can now full-heal herself with Mega Heal (therefore saving more resources!). And she becomes more magic-durable, obviously.

[Meeplelard]

Blastoise may be possible to pull off in H/G, but he'd require quite a serious push, is all I'm thinking.  Dunno if he can actually muster it or not.  Pikachu, though, you'd basically need to go the length of giving him extra levels, which...yeah...

[Mad Fnorder]

Maybe some sort of competative focus item build for pokemon twinks?

[Ultradude]

Gen4 Heracross with Guts + Burn Orb + Facade, Jolly nature, whatever EVs compliment using this to duel (probably more balance than standard competition Heracross?), also packing Aerial Ace (evasion whores), Revenge (120 base if the other guy damaged Heracross the turn before... with STAB and Guts behind it), and Swords Dance if he gets time to set up. Facade OHKOs even some defense-built bulky Waters with this, and if it gets a turn to Swords Dance... woooo.

EDIT: Still not especially durable and eats it to status though. Also super duper physical spoilers.

Unless you only want ranked duelers, in which case I might be able to do something for Swampert.

[Fudozukushi]

Can Pikachu use the FEAR setup?

[OblivionKnight]

So Tai doesn't have to do all the SMT set-ups:


Persona 3
*Since most equipment effects are randomized, I'm assuming you'll allow her to have set effects for this (Lucifer's Blade and the Ice Bracer are set effects, at least)

Mitsuru Kirijo
Weapon - Lucifer's Blade: 450 ATK, 100 HIT, +10 All Stats
Armour - Eternal Armour: 156 DEF, High Fire Resistance Effect (30% resistance, overrides weakness)
Footwear - Eternal Shoes: 130 EVA, High Magic Evade (+30% Evasion versus magic)
Accessory - Ice Bracer: Ice Damage+25%

Good: 2x average damage (411 to a 205 average), no weaknesses (halves ice, 30% fire resistance), loads of healing, 50% accurate silence, above average durability (110% to magic, about 115% to physicals), great evasion (35% or so vs. physicals, 65% vs. magic), average damage physical for back-up with great accuracy (great accuracy on the magic too).

Bad: Eats it to status, still no actual speed score, ice damage is wallable.


I'll think of some others later.

[Sir Donald 3.2]

In keeping with the current trend of Pokemon Nominations:

Gen 4 Blissey
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Flame Orb (Hence, Gen. 4)
Moves:
Softboiled
Counter
Psychic
Ice Beam

Flame Orb sets Burn Status on its bearer after its first attack, preventing the imposition of Sleep, Poison, Freeze, or Paralysis Statuses.  The 1/8th mHP reduction can be handled by Softboiled, and the physical attack reduction... what Physical Attack?

Ice Beam was chosen to take advantage of Serene Grace and the relative lack of Freeze Immunity in the DL (i.e. virtual 5HKO w/o Freeze/Ice Immunity, regardless of MDef).  Psychic is if an enemy has Ice Immunity, and Counter is for heavy-enough physical attacks to be a threat, but not enough to OHKO her.  Subject to MP-Drain and Reflect, though.  Probably dies to Pummel, though could probably survive (but not counter) Bum-Rush (due to Gen 4 rules...)


And, just so that we have something other than a Poke-Build...

Zell with Carbunkle, Leviathan, and Pandemonia GFs.
Commands:  Attack/Limit, GF, Recover, Absorb
Abilities (Carb has Abilityx3):  Counter, Auto-Reflect, Initiative
Junctions:  100 Ensua to HP -> +500 HP

Recover is not subject to Silence or Reflect (IIRC).  And though Reflect is Dispellable, Carbunkle can restore it.  Leviathan and Pandemonia provide uncommon damage that could be useful against the right enemy.  (Absorb is just there to fill out the menu...)

[dude789]

Here's a pokemon twink that might make the H/G border.
Gardevoir with some defense EVs and traced speed boost ability. Gardevoir would already make a solid heavy, and the defense EVs and speed boost help to cover its weaknesses. It's weak to statuses, but if it isn't taken out quickly the speed boost ability could overwhelm opponents especially with Calm Mind.

Dragon Quest 5 hero with meteorite bracer. He's very fast and difficult to kill. Upper and Fullheal give physical fighters a ton of problems. Bad damage keeps him from being a true godlike.

[SnowFire]

Sir Donald: GFs are...  huh.  A well-boosted GF with good compatibility can kinda keep up with attacks and Tripled Magic at endgame, so normally I wouldn't worry, except that the DL seems to use averages based on unjunctioned characters, in which case a boosted-GF will be inflicting extremely godly damage.  Zell probably would just smash things with overkill Leviathans.

--
Anyway, here's my proposal for an FF8 character...  Quistis with 100 Full-Lifes junctioned to HP and 4 Status Defense junctions to use as she chooses.  For reference, it seems that 100 Full-Lifes would grant 4800 extra HP, so Quistis would have ~2.2 PCHP and limit at ~.77 PCHP using the stat topic unjunctioned averages.  Ruins stallers, at least.  (If this is thought too weak, she can get an Elemental Defense junction as well, or to really make her scary give her the Recover Command.  With that she blows out those with limited resources.)

FF3DS Bartz Luneth: At the JL listed in the stat topic for each class, no Onion Knight.  But needs to pick one job per fight, natch.  Lots of versatility, compromised by the fact that his best forms are only Heavies.  Still, Warrior for times he wants to blitz and Sage for times he wants to stall / status has some appeal, if nothing else.

Some Fire Emblem character: I dunno.  Eirika is already Heavy/Godlike apparently (maybe give her the critical-canceling accessory?).  I'd recommend some variant of Ike, but apparently he can't wear a Beorc Guard?  So, uh, Ike with 3 Elixers and a Seraph Robe for +7 HP, maybe?

Aeonless Yuna: Hey, it's a tweak, all right.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Aeonless Yuna arguably is too good even for Heavy/Godlike, though!

[DjinnAndTonic]

FF3DS Bartz:

Luneth, perhaps?


Would G3 Yuki with 4x attack number skill break Heavy/Godlike?

[hinode]

Gen4 Heracross with Guts + Burn Orb + Facade, Jolly nature, whatever EVs compliment using this to duel (probably more balance than standard competition Heracross?), also packing Aerial Ace (evasion whores), Revenge (120 base if the other guy damaged Heracross the turn before... with STAB and Guts behind it), and Swords Dance if he gets time to set up. Facade OHKOs even some defense-built bulky Waters with this, and if it gets a turn to Swords Dance... woooo.

EDIT: Still not especially durable and eats it to status though. Also super duper physical spoilers.

Unless you only want ranked duelers, in which case I might be able to do something for Swampert.

This moveset is pretty flawed. Revenge has a negative priority (-6 so it goes after everything but Trick Room) and is at best only as strong as Megahorn/Close Combat, so there's no reason whatsoever to also use it over those two moves. Similarly Facade is 140 effective power to Megahorn's 180 effective power, outside of Bug resists like Weezing and Gliscor there's no real use for it. Given how Bug resists are pretty much non-existent outside of Pokemon, you might as well go for Protect (to activate Flame Orb and avoid turn 1 status)/Swords Dance/Megahorn/filler.

[Ultradude]

This moveset is pretty flawed. Revenge has a negative priority (-6 so it goes after everything but Trick Room) and is at best only as strong as Megahorn/Close Combat, so there's no reason whatsoever to also use it over those two moves. Similarly Facade is 140 effective power to Megahorn's 180 effective power, outside of Bug resists like Weezing and Gliscor there's no real use for it. Given how Bug resists are pretty much non-existent outside of Pokemon, you might as well go for Protect (to activate Flame Orb and avoid turn 1 status)/Swords Dance/Megahorn/filler.

Eh, just going off of what I've seen in play, though yeah, that works better when you aren't trying to get around a team's worth of resists.

Put Aerial Ace in the filler spot for the evasive and you've got a nasty little set. I was accounting somewhat for Megahorn's inaccuracy and Close Combat's self-debuff, given that with Burn Orb he's already in a tight spot if he needs to take a hit. Though yeah, the raw OHKO potential off that speed is H/G enough I guess.

[Dark Holy Elf]

FF3DS Bartz:

Luneth, perhaps?


Would G3 Yuki with 4x attack number skill break Heavy/Godlike?

Not a chance, he's reliant on SP moves to do damage in the DL and even 4x'ing his physical damage wouldn't change that, just ease the pressure on his resource a little.

Easy way to make a G3 tweak though: let them use Orbs. Maybe give them some spells too if you wanted. The buff orb combined with healing would certainly be effective.