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Author Topic: Season 52, Week 3  (Read 5220 times)

Monkeyfinger

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Season 52, Week 3
« on: June 13, 2009, 09:20:39 AM »
Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar:EBC) vs Deamoned (BoF5)
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs Zenon (Disgaea 2)
Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Erikia (FE8)
Tibarn (FE9) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs Reno (FF7)
Jerin (Lufia 1) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (ToS)
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC)
Asellus (Saga) vs Angelo (DQ8)

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Beatrice (WA3) vs  Shinjiro Aragaki (P3)
Roxis Rosencrantz (MK) vs Gijimu (S2)
Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) vs Slade (SF2)

Light:

Kahn Marley (S2) vs Garet (GS)
Duessel (FE8) vs Frank Goldfinger (SH3)
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8)
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6)

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2009, 09:40:15 AM »
Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar:EBC) vs Deamoned (BoF5)
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs Zenon (Disgaea 2)
Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Erikia (FE8): No amount of hasting is going to make Citan not average FE speed. His healing is less than half his HP so probably a bit more than half a Sieglinde double, meaning that while he triples conventionally after haste, around 2/3rds of those turns are going towards healing, and the first one is spent on haste... effectively, he's trading hits with Eirika 1:1 while giving up the first strike, and praying that he hits enough times before Eirika bisects him with a crit (roughly 10%x2 chance per Eirka attack). No, that's not going to work for him.

Note that his deathblows aren't melee attacks and hence won't trigger counters, but that shouldn't save him.

Tibarn (FE9) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs): I... think? Well Yuri1 gets stomped because he's a straight slugger who 3HKOs Tibarn after evade, but Yuri2 should be able to grind him out with speed + healing + a great defense buff, unless Tibarn had a great crit rate.

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs Reno (FF7)
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC): Holy...
Asellus (Saga) vs Angelo (DQ8): Unless Angelo's ID was turn 1.

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK): Gets around Lich's good defensive stat with Raiden charge. Aroma material + general tankiness lets him weather Lich's arsenal.
Roxis Rosencrantz (MK) vs Gijimu (S2)

Light:

Duessel (FE8) vs Frank Goldfinger (SH3): His ultimate's a ranged tech IIRC. Duessel could try a hand axe or javelin or something but lol duessel with a crappy weapon.
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8): Never mind, she hits harder than I thought. She can get around an FF8 limit.
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 09:57:44 AM by Monkeyfinger »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2009, 09:59:15 AM »
Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar:EBC) vs Deamoned (BoF5)
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs Zenon (Disgaea 2)
Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Erikia (FE8)
Tibarn (FE9) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs Reno (FF7)
Jerin (Lufia 1) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (ToS)
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC)- Sinistal versus painful Holy damage.
Asellus (Saga) vs Angelo (DQ8)

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Beatrice (WA3) vs  Shinjiro Aragaki (P3)
Roxis Rosencrantz (MK) vs Gijimu (S2)- Roxis can 2.1 turn KO...but he can't turn 2HKO here. Too bad that he's only a sliver of a fraction faster than Gijimu over 2 turns, and is slower the first.
Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) vs Slade (SF2)

Light:

Kahn Marley (S2) vs Garet (GS)- Kahn can't deal with the statuses, I think?
Duessel (FE8) vs Frank Goldfinger (SH3)
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8)
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6)
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2009, 11:56:23 AM »
Godlike:

Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Eirika (FE8) - Monkey more or less summed up my thoughts here, although replace "average FE speed" with "not quite fast enough to not be doubled by Eirika", because it takes the likes of Emily or Alena for me to not see Eirika doubling with a Killing Edge. Being forced to incite counters just doesn't work here, not when Eirika's threatening with a crit and nearly two-turning even with the damage drop.

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs Reno (FF7) - Who is faster here?
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC) - May not OHKO, doesn't have to, because he goes first. Ow, Holy weakness off that defense makes even the HP not matter.
Asellus (Saga) vs Angelo (DQ8) - Immunes ID, then MCs and makes Angelo weep. Tough luck, man. =/

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK) - Tornado Hold.
Beatrice (WA3) vs  Shinjiro Aragaki (P3) - Sweet dreams, Shinjiro.
Roxis Rosenkrantz (MK) vs Gijimu (S2) - Gijimu goes first and 2HKOs. Ow. This fight sorta doesn't matter much, though, whoever wins is Nash-bait.
Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) vs Slade (SF2) - Status goodness.

Light:

Duessel (FE8) vs Frank Goldfinger (SH3) - Christ.
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8) - Cryo Shell x2 = Zell gently grazes Mia, as if he wasn't doing that to begin with. Afterwards, she dicks around forever until a double and decisively wins.
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6) - My kneejerk is that Locke is goddamned terrible.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 02:25:59 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

OblivionKnight

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2009, 02:22:59 PM »
Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar:EBC) vs Deamoned (BoF5) - Zophar.  Having at least two eyes allows him to win here.  Deamoned's lack of depth perception prevents him from moving around enough to avoid Zophar's attacks, meaning he can't move up properly. 
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs Zenon (Disgaea 2) - Zenon.  Can move around the battle field.  Even though he's part fish, he resists fire, ice, wind...which makes him...well, hard to quantify in Pokemon terms, but certainly not weak to Psychic.  Mewtwo wants RBY form, but there's no range on that form's attacks, and he can't (or she can't) move in the battle, so Zenon can stand at a distance and fire off whatever he wants.
Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Erikia (FE8) - Citan.  All he has to do is ask her if she'll give him her weapons.  She will, then she won't be able to fight due to lacking weapons, and she can't even use her breasts to fight back since they're so small.  Also, since the rules say it's only the person fighting, I don't let her use her horse, which means she's either limited to unpromoted form, or loses stats (most likely speed and possibly defense, which hurts like hell here).
Tibarn (FE9) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Yuri.  In the world of birds, the bigger wings tend to mean great power.  Dark Seraphim has much, much larger wings that Tibarn.  Tibarn is out-manned and forfeits.

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs Reno (FF7) - Zero.  Both have equally short names, but Zero has the advantage of using a sword.  And a gun.  Reno has lost to a SCC with a person using just a gun and just a sword.  Since Zero can use both, I don't see how Reno has a chance here.
Jerin (Lufia 1) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (ToS) - Mithos.  Much easier for him to strike her at her weakest - her innate feminine misgivings.  Jerin as an elf is androgynous mostly - the problem is that the feminine desire to be a woman overrides that.  Mithos looks much prettier in a dress, and once Jerin sees that, she'll go home and eat ice cream and get fat, because she can't stand being so unloved and confused for a man.  The female mentality comes first, and that's her weakness here.
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC) - Daos.  Look at how fucking huge he is in battle.  Seriously, he also has gigantic armour-plated cape-mail!  Serge needs loads of stuff to take down the Time Devourer, which is about the same size.  And that thing didn't have armour.  Serge's weapon doesn't even touch Daos' divine skin, meaning he never takes damage.  Meanwhile, Serge wears fisherman's clothes.  Those protect from nothing.
Asellus (Saga) vs Angelo (DQ8) - Angelo.  Asellus is a woman, but canon lesbian?  Ok, assuming she is, Angelo is too hot - he can still woo her slightly, and I was under the impression she was more bisexual.  As long as Angelo use protection (and I'm certain he has the spells for it), he's fine here in the dominating position.

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK) - Flay.  64-bit vs. 8-bit.  This is no contest at all.  Lich can't even see him due to being colour-blinded to such a small spectrum.
Beatrice (WA3) vs  Shinjiro Aragaki (P3) - Beatrice.  Shinjiro has a problem with recurring nightmares secondary to the disaster.  Beatrice will simply get in his head and cause his persona to go out of control.  Or simply modulate his memories so that he thinks she looks like the mother, driving him into a psychotic rage that causes his persona to destroy him.
Roxis Rosencrantz (MK) vs Gijimu (S2) - Roxis.  Gijimu < Freed Y, by the sole fact that Freed gets laid.  Guess why Freed gets laid?  He has glasses.  Guess what Roxis has that Gijimu has not?  Glasses.  They go out for a night on the town, and Roxis gets all the ass he wants, leaving Gijimu at home with a moist towel.
Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) vs Slade (SF2) - Nash.  Mithril conducts electricity just fine, thank you.  Stupid rat, bringing metal to an electrical fight.

Light:

Kahn Marley (S2) vs Garet (GS) - Kahn.  One of the issues with GS is that the characters are not used to voices, particularly loud ones.  The game is rather soft.  Kahn meanwhile has magical yelling and screaming.  Once Garet is deafened by that, he can't ask any more annoying questions, meaning he's out of a job, homeless on the street giving handjobs for crack.
Duessel (FE8) vs Frank Goldfinger (SH3) - Frank.  Since bowling balls don't exist in the FE world, Duessel will not be prepared for it.  He'll walk his horse over it, and it will trip and fall down, giving him a concussion. 
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8) - Zell.  Punching > slapping, and Zell can punch Gods - Mia only slaps Nash.  Zell also beats the shit out of women (Adel, Edea, Fujin, etc.), so no hitting girls problems here.
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6) - Locke.  Steals Skelly's pants.  This might not be something problematic in a normal situation, but this will expose the fact that Skelly has the pubic bone structure of woman, which no one knew about.  Public humiliation is not something gay undead clowns enjoy.

Do yourself a favour and try not to take me seriously >_>
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Taishyr

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2009, 02:38:54 PM »
Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar:EBC) vs Deamoned (BoF5)

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs Reno (FF7)
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC)
Asellus (Saga) vs Angelo (DQ8) - Status? Gut, at least. Bounce has short duration issues IIRC. ID... might change this, but don't respect Kathwack enough.

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK) - Unlike Pyramid, I think I can see Aroma Material blocking Hold. Good enough.
Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) vs Slade (SF2) - Sorrow.

Light:

Duessel (FE8) vs Frank Goldfinger (SH3) - Isn't Frank. IS NOT FRANK. I REFUSE TO ACCEPT ANY OTHER ANSWER.
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8) - Besides, Mia's got a champ run in this field.
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6) - FF6a may tilt. Need to think. Still not buying him outslugging Mia, though, so.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2009, 02:46:19 PM »
I sorta said it in my own post, but Kathwhack doesn't matter unless you disallow storebought statusblockers. SaGa Frontier has a storebought ID immunity accessory.

EDIT: Not that it seems to matter much so far, but the constant ID mentions sorta nagged at me.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Ultradude

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2009, 04:48:47 PM »
Godlike:

Mewtwo (PKMN) vs Zenon (Disgaea 2): Mewtwo's kinda fight. No vote though.
Tibarn (FE9) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs): EDIT: Not 2HKOd already, going first and using For Everyone exacerbates. For Tomorrow hitting the weaker defense and draining does it from there.

Heavy:

Jerin (Lufia 1) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (ToS): Big Yggdrasil has a 2HKO pysical combo. No vote again.

Middle:

Beatrice (WA3) vs  Shinjiro Aragaki (P3): Lalala sleep.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 08:17:53 PM by Ultradude »
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Taishyr

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2009, 05:08:14 PM »
Snow: I always forget about that, right. >_>

alanna82

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2009, 05:32:12 PM »

Mewtwo (PKMN) vs Zenon (Disgaea 2)- Zenon, I think
Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Erikia (FE8)- okay, how did Eirika beat Lucia, who's boss form uses magic that is unevadable except by a spell and can act 3 times in a battle? Citan can double Eirika, and I dont allow FE counters anymore. I just add them to the damage average.
Tibarn (FE9) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)- Yuri

Heavy:

Jerin (Lufia 1) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (ToS)- Mithos
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC)- Serge
Asellus (Saga) vs Angelo (DQ8)- Asellus

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK)- Not lich. Flaya
Roxis Rosencrantz (MK) vs Gijimu (S2)- Gijimu
Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) vs Slade (SF2)- Nash

Light:

Kahn Marley (S2) vs Garet (GS)- Garet
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8)- Mia
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6)- Locke. Skelly is awful.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2009, 08:19:30 PM »
Godlike:

Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Eirika (FE8) - Monkey more or less summed up my thoughts here, although replace "average FE speed" with "not quite fast enough to not be doubled by Eirika", because it takes the likes of Emily or Alena for me to not see Eirika doubling with a Killing Edge. Being forced to incite counters just doesn't work here, not when Eirika's threatening with a crit and nearly two-turning even with the damage drop.


I'm assuming you mean pre-haste, since Citan's speed after that is rather insane?
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2009, 08:21:55 PM »
Godlike:

Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Eirika (FE8) - Monkey more or less summed up my thoughts here, although replace "average FE speed" with "not quite fast enough to not be doubled by Eirika", because it takes the likes of Emily or Alena for me to not see Eirika doubling with a Killing Edge. Being forced to incite counters just doesn't work here, not when Eirika's threatening with a crit and nearly two-turning even with the damage drop.


I'm assuming you mean pre-haste, since Citan's speed after that is rather insane?

I don't see Renki affecting AS at all.

EDIT: To elaborate, to me it's not a raw speed stat buff, but a simple CTB gauge speed doubler. In this case, I don't see it affecting Citan's doubling or being doubled in a FE sense. I see FF Haste as pretty much the same.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2009, 08:32:41 PM »
Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Eirika (FE8) - See Haste as working fine to make sure Eirika's the one being doubled.  Deathblows being basically undodgable helps make sure that Citan gets the damage in.

Re the Killing Edge hype: The stat topic lists the Killing Edge as doing 17 damage for Eirika.  Citan has good defense which might reduce that, but let's ignoring that.  17*3 = 51 damage.  The *Silver* damage average, which is lower than the average with the Killing Edges and the crits, lists 60.93 HP as the kill point.  If you see Eirika as still doubling, 51+17= 68 damage...  but Citan has 1.21 PCHP, so his FE killpoint is 74 HP anyway.  So a fully healed Citan only fears a Killing Edge double crit...  which admittedly is disturbingly possible (.43^2 = 18.5%), but overall I'm not seeing much merit to Killing Edge hype here.  Eirika should stick with Sieglinde, which on a crit splatters Citan for sure and puts more pressure on when it doesn't crit.

Tibarn (FE9) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - This is actually pretty interesting...  So Tibarn goes first, doubles Yuri.  Yuri can change to Amon and Mind/Body Revival, but he's probably still getting doubled if he does that.  So he does parasitic healing as Dark Seraphim?  But Tibarn is probably getting the next turn anyway, and he might be able to finish the job even through it?  Not sure the stat buff immediately is enough for Yuri to survive three hits here.  I suspect it's Yuri, but he hangs on by the barest of margins here.

Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8) - Ah, fun, more FF8 debates.

Okay, first off, I know that many people don't allow waiting in the DL, and it admittedly leads to some weird situations when both sides can wait.  Personally, I allow it, especially when one side can freely wait and the other has to use their turns.  This means that Zell never risks a double turn here- if one is coming up, Zell simply sits there with the menu up, doesn't take a turn, lets Mia go, then hits her afterward.  Not really useful for slugfests since it actually hands out the double turn earlier, but great here.  So, Mia can't just screw around and wait for the turns to fall her way; Zell can waste time too.  Either Zell slowly punches her to death at 1 damage a pop, or she knocks Zell into limit range.  And once Zell limits, well, see write-up, he's got more powerful Duel moves to break her defense.  (There's some YouTube vids of a no-junctions, no-GFs FF8 playthrough, and it's actually worth it against high-Def enemies to do this.)

Second.  Let's assume no waiting.  The Lunar Agility average is funky - it's 79 with all Dragon Cane, 81 with half & half, and 83 with all Wind Cane.  Mia's Agility with the Wind Cane is 89.  Compared to the all-Wind Cane average (what I personally would use when Mia is using the Wind Cane, at least), that's 1.07 avg. speed.

If you take this turn-based speed literally, then it's on turn 15 that she doubles someone with average speed.  I personally don't respect turn-based speed very much as far as double-turning goes, and would average it to the mean to get 1.035 avg. speed; now the double doesn't happen until turn 29.  At this length of time, there's actually a fairly noticeable risk of Zell getting lucky on criticals.  If you don't allow luck junctions, it doesn't happen quite as often, but since Zell does get one hit in with only one level of Ice Shell up, it might just be possible for Zell to smack his way through Ice Shelled Mia anyway.  I have no idea how likely this is, but might be worth consideration regardless.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2009, 09:03:38 PM »
Mia probably isn't bothering with the Wind Cane. She can get around limit range if she's not using it, one Zell attack is 35% if you take FF 8 pure physical damage at pure face value, and Mia cuts off 28% on an average physical after One Shell (which puts Zell at 7%). She can take one pure hit from him, and still laugh at his damage afterward, and then manipulate enough to blow past a limit.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2009, 10:40:24 PM »
Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar:EBC) vs Deamoned (BoF5): Doesn't need Fate Storm!
Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Erikia (FE8): Counters kinda spell bad news for Citan here. With his healing only offsetting one attack, where is he making headway? Even if he constantly tripleturns (he doesn't), he has to spend one turn on healing Eirika's turn, one attack, and another turn healing from the counter. Toss in the turns wasted at the start of the battle and refreshing Haste, the fact that Eirika will dodge him sometimes (he's accurate but not even game-best?), and yeah, sooner or later a crit will come.
Tibarn (FE9) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs): I guess. I'm really sick of Yuri.

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs Reno (FF7): Whoever goes first wins, need to look that up.
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC): Holy elemental physical hype? Eh, sure. May the winner fry next round. ^_^

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK): No paralysis blocker.
Roxis Rosencrantz (MK) vs Gijimu (S2): I can't think of many times I'd disagree with both Dhyer and Snow, so...
Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) vs Slade (SF2): Awesome. Fast statusin'.

Light:

Duessel (FE8) vs Frank Goldfinger (SH3): Survives long enough to Double.
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8): Doesn't take too much to beat Zell, and Mia is more of a Middle anyway. Also what the hell, Mia has damage control and isn't far below average damage at all, she blasts through limit range. Period.
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6): Same as Locke vs. Macha + LoneBalloon hype!

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 12:05:45 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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James_xeno

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2009, 02:26:43 AM »
Godlike:

Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Eirika (FE8) - Monkey more or less summed up my thoughts here, although replace "average FE speed" with "not quite fast enough to not be doubled by Eirika", because it takes the likes of Emily or Alena for me to not see Eirika doubling with a Killing Edge. Being forced to incite counters just doesn't work here, not when Eirika's threatening with a crit and nearly two-turning even with the damage drop.


I'm assuming you mean pre-haste, since Citan's speed after that is rather insane?

I don't see Renki affecting AS at all.

EDIT: To elaborate, to me it's not a raw speed stat buff, but a simple CTB gauge speed doubler. In this case, I don't see it affecting Citan's doubling or being doubled in a FE sense. I see FF Haste as pretty much the same.

Um...why wouldn't it?

*Attack Speed = speed + con - weapon weight

13 + 0 - 0 = Citan's Attack Speed


I could maybe understand your views on Citan doubling. But him being doubled, with Senkei up. (2x speed)

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 02:44:47 AM by James_xeno »
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When antelopes cross a river crocodiles will eat some of them, but the majority will still make it through.
Because there are 500 antelope and three crocodiles. Not because the crocodiles are enviornmentalists.

Ultradude

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2009, 02:58:16 AM »
Um...why wouldn't it?

*Attack Speed = speed + con - weapon weight

13 + 0 - 0 = Citan's Attack Speed


I could maybe understand your views on Citan doubling. But him being doubled, with Senkei up. (2x speed)


Elaborating on his point; he sees it not as increasing Citan's speed stat, but affecting the turn gauge directly; sort of like how Sephiroth's wall doesn't do a damned thing to his defense stats, just directly cuts attack damage in half.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2009, 03:05:12 AM »
Specifically, there are two types of speed relevant to this discussion: FE speed and turn speed.

All FE characters have average turn speed, and varying FE speeds. Characters from other games have turn speed only... by convention, many of us assign them a FE speed based on their turn speed stat. (Monkey however would give all these characters average FE speed, as would a few others... interps vary.)

There's nothing to suggest Senkei doubles FE speed, though. In FE terms, casting Senkei is like having a Bard play for Citan every turn. This doesn't let him FE double. It DOES let him CTB double.

Anybody who is hyping Senkei as giving Citan FOUR times as many attacks (i.e. letting him FE double AND giving him CTB doubles) is being pretty silly if you ask me! I do see it giving him twice as many attacks, but that doesn't really help him (especially since, just as having a Bard play for him would, it means he incurs twice as many counters).

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2009, 07:09:27 AM »
On the Citan and Erikia fight.


Erikia's overall durability is just below average. (below average HP, a little above average DEF and RES) Without healing, assuming she get's critical (Killer Edge) on her second or third attack, she still only 4HKO's average durability at best. Citan has about 123% physical durability, so she can only 5HKO him. Her only hope is for a 4HKO, but she needs at least two criticals in her first four attacks to do so. (N > C > N > C) And that's not happening in the time it takes Citan to KO her. (3HKO - 3 CWs - 142.2% damage)  So even in the best case (N > C > N > DEAD!) it doesn't end well for her. And this (^) is all without even factoring in Citan's healing. 94% (47% w/o LS or ED) of his full HP.

If you see DB's triggering counters, it still wouldn't matter since healing, against her 5-6HKO damage, gives him all the time he needs to KO.

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When antelopes cross a river crocodiles will eat some of them, but the majority will still make it through.
Because there are 500 antelope and three crocodiles. Not because the crocodiles are enviornmentalists.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 07:54:16 AM »
Given how she still 3HKOs handily with Sieglinde, though, that doesn't matter much. He has to heal every other time he attacks. Now suddenly seeing him getting countered (and honestly, the game doesn't give you evidence why you -shouldn't- from what I remember) is very relevant.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 07:58:21 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
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superaielman

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2009, 07:38:25 PM »
Godlike:

Zophar (Lunar:EBC) vs Deamoned (BoF5)
Mewtwo (PKMN) vs Zenon (Disgaea 2)- He's built to smash Zenon.
Citan Uzuki (XG) vs Erikia (FE8)- Slaughter. Erikia doesn't double unless you see everyone as average FE AS, doesn't 2HKO, and is 2HKOed back. Evasion helps but not enough, with his massive speed advantage.

Heavy:

Zero (MMXCM) vs Reno (FF7)
Daos (Lufias) vs Serge (CC)- 2HKO.
Asellus (Saga) vs Angelo (DQ8)- Leaning Asellus. She can heal lock him down with something fairly cheap that inflicts status. Buff won't last long enough or be good enough to tip that.

Middle:

Lich (FF1) vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Roxis Rosencrantz (MK) vs Gijimu (S2)
Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) vs Slade (SF2)- Slade's faster and 2HKOS but that isn't enough.

Light:

Kahn Marley (S2) vs Garet (GS)- Status/damage/durablity.
Duessel (FE8) vs Frank Goldfinger (SH3)
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Zell Dincht (FF8)- Not worth a comment.
Skelly (CC) vs Locke Cole (FF6)- Same as last week.
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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2009, 09:18:07 PM »
Beatrice (WA3) vs  Shinjiro Aragaki (P3) - Sleep doesn't exist in P3.  Therefore, Shinjiro's getting his ass handed to him by Nightmare.

...did I ever mention how cruel an attack that reapplies a debilitating status is?
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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2009, 07:46:57 AM »
Quote
Now suddenly seeing him getting countered (and honestly, the game doesn't give you evidence why you -shouldn't- from what I remember)

Festive wind and rare earth look like spells, despite being physical HDBs. That's enough for me. (Crystal water and haze of fire I would see getting countered because they're actually sword strikes.)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 07:49:39 AM by Monkeyfinger »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2009, 07:53:54 AM »
Festive Wind and Rare Earth involve him run-slashing the enemy through, if I remember right (I'm pretty sure on Festive Wind, not so much on Rare Earth, but). I... don't think I'd see that as not melee. And I dunno, most HDBs look like magic to the point that flavor would make 2/3 of the cast ranged in some sense. Dunno if I buy that.
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
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Re: Season 52, Week 3
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2009, 08:46:18 AM »
Festive Wind is "slam into enemy really fast, knock it into the air, random kanji, sheath sword and hop back as they fall and take damage".  Rumble Earth is "backwards death stab into enemy, cherry blossoms appear from nowhere".  For completion, Fire Haze is slashes -> burning rings of fire!, Crystal Water is floating levetation slashes.

It's probably worth noting for the sake of this argument that, whatever the deathblows themselves class as, the leadups are still basic physicals and might trigger a counter even if the rest of the attack, flavor-wise, seems like it shouldn't.  And of course that those are rather a lot more evadable than DBs, so Eirika's evade still loses him some damage... just, maybe 10% or so, so probably not enough to shut down the 2HKO.
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