VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

[Yakumo]

you haven't proven yourself yet with the dayvig.  If you were scum caught in a lie, why not try and make the most of it like this?  Simply put, I don't trust you one bit until you prove yourself.

[Ranmilia]

Well, I'm not exactly expecting people to claim dayvig or the action on me without a reason to do so.  On the other hand, if I just reveal what I've got outright, the usefulness of my information will be destroyed as anyone can fakeclaim the things I'm asking for.  As for how I got it?  Letter to the new Prince from the Tribune.  AKA mod PM.  WHY the backup dayvig also gets PMs full of info, I don't know, it's very horribly broken. 

[Ranmilia]

Oh good, Tom's here.

##Kill: Andrew

[Yakumo]

I wasn't trying to ask you what claim you were looking for, I was trying to figure out why you expected one in the first place.  Which you explained, for all the explanation makes me want to smack Tom for making yet more overpowered role craziness if it turns out true.

[EvilTom]

[I'm going to do this one quick 'cos I'm off to work soon.]

"Right!" Announced Alex, with a newfound fervour. I’ll have none of the dilly-dallying of the last Prince. We’re doing things my way or the by-way!
“Uh,” interjected AndrewRogue, “it’s ‘highway’, sir. These days they say highway.”
Alex paused. “How dare you contradict me, scum!?” Alex flew into a rage, growing twelve inch claws and severing Andrew’s head from his body in the blink of an eye.

“Er…that is to say….” He glanced cautiously as the shocked crowd gaping at him. “I mean… only a ghoul could know all the latest kine-speak! He must be a ghoul! See, look, he hasn’t decomposed or anything. You there, search his corpse!”

A quick search was conducted; a pair of binoculars, some car-keys and an Uzi was found tucked into his breast pocket. Along with a list of cars he planned to knock off with his new found Sabbat powers.

The gathered group congratulated each other yet again, and decided to continue while lady luck favoured them.

ANDREWROGUE, Sabbat Ghoul (Mafia Silencer/Watcher) has been killed!

The game will now continue.

[Smodge13]

Heh, as soon as i started to read that "another one bites the dust" came into my head.

Alright.
##Vote:VSM
Do i really need to list my reason?
Same as day 1 ocmbined with what the night stuff revealed.

[Ranmilia]

Uhhhh YES?

Andrew is now confirmed as a watcher, which confirms that VSM is the one that sent the cops to my house.  The kine can't tell a thing about me - but they also prevent me from leaving my house to do anything supernatural.  In other words, it's a roleblock.

We've already lynched the scum roleblocker.

VSM is, barring some outrageous bastard modding, confirmed town.

[EvilTom]

A quick votecount:

Veryslightlymad (2): Anonymous, AndrewRogue, Smodge13
AndrewRogue (3): Sir Alex, Excal, El Cideon, Yakumo

10 remain, 6 votes required.

[Smodge13]

....... O.k >.>
So scum either have 2 Roleblockers or he's a townie roleblocker?
UGH
##Unvote: VSM

Dam i thought you were implying something else.
I find it strange though that anonymous vote followed me.

[Smodge13]

HMM
NOTE TO TOWN, THIS IS A TEST VOTE
##Vote: Alex

[Smodge13]

Oh, wait it can't be me, there are trains where i'm voting for someone else and the Anonymous is sitting on Excal.
So someone out there has an Anonymous or Double-vote, but looks like they can assign it independantally as well.

Leaving my vote on Alex as a just in case.

[Yakumo]

Just in case of what, exactly?

Anyway, I guess I have to agree that Alex is what he says he is, and the mod is introducing more chaos into our games.  So, I need to find someone else to look at for our actual lynch.  Excal being scum can't be discounted just yet, but I think we can at least shelve him until later.  VSM appears to be a town roleblocker, but his name was put out there by scum, so we can't trust that until he speaks up.

This leaves me looking at a few people, though.  Lady Door(and Excal, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now) seemed to be pressing me fairly hard for trying to make a case on lynching a lurker, and was apparently around two hours from     line yet refused to be the hammer.  Ciato... I just don't remember anything she's said right now.  This may be because I missed half the game, though, so I'll look everything over again before I jump on her.  Same with Corwin, really.  QR I haven't looked at very heavily because I was having trouble understanding her posts when I was trying to catch up.  So, for now I'm going to look at those four and see if I can come up with anything for today's lynch.

One thing, though: Alex, when you did your post right near the end of the day stating what you feel about everyone, For Smodge and QR you said they were "Very likely town w/assumptions about setup".  Could you explain, please?  The only thing I can think of is you saw them playing like a Toreador and a Malkavian, but breadcrumbing something like that would be pretty easy for anyone who knows the source material(I know QR does for sure, not sure on Smodge but I assume so), so is there something else I'm not thinking of?  Or are you calling them very likely town based solely on essentially claimed clans?

[Ranmilia]

Yeah, pretty much.  I have a hard time seeing scum telling Smodge to breadcrumb in that way, as stated previously.  The assumption about the setup I'm referring to on QR is that there'd only be one Malk, they'd be likely town, and scum wouldn't be likely to fake it since it'll inevitably draw attention.  It is shaky to be sure, I just wanted to get my day 1 thoughts on folks out there in case I didn't live through the night.

[Sierra]

Hooo-kay. I have to say, the roleclaims are overlapping nicely enough that it makes them hard to disbelieve by this point. Excal, at least, looks better now. Someone's mentioned that he could've been throwing an endangered scumbuddy under the bus to save himself, but...I don't think Andy was exactly the prime suspect at that time.

Alex's role makes my head hurt. But he's obviously useful, he's obviously working with us, and I feel attacking him right now would be counterproductive (even if I do disagree with much of what he's said this game).

...And the anonyvote still floats around. Now it's on...VSM? I...think that rules out it being attached to his vote, unless there are some odd circumstances where it turns against the role for some reason. Granted, this has already proven itself to be a very odd game. Either way, he really needs to get back here and talk, because I'm curious to hear what he has to say after this day's shenanigans.

[Ranmilia]

So, we need to decide on a lynch and a secondary target.  Right now I'm looking mainly at Corwin, Ciato and LadyDoor. 

Door's got a lot of newbie play early on obscuring her.  She seems to alternate between off the wall bad play and sudden insights, comes off to me as sympathetic to Andrew today, and was on, well, pretty much all the trains I disagreed with yesterday.

Ciato on the other hand seems to have stood back a fair bit.  Far too many of her posts are quick comments and "Oops, gotta go/out of time/more later."   I understand IRL issues limiting her time - but on the occasions she has been here she's not really contributed much, throwing around a few comments and opinions but never taking hard stances on anyone.  The lone exception is her defense of me, which, while I definitely agree with it and applaud her insight, makes her stand out a bit from the crowd and makes me wonder if it's a little more than insight this time.

Corwin is fishy, slippery and hard to grasp.  Part of this may admittedly be backlash from WoW Mafia; I KNEW he was scum towards the end there and I'm getting the same vibe on him here.  The solid things I have on him here are his agreeing to sac lynch to test gov (though, like Andrew - pointedly like Andrew - he withdrew that position quickly and didn't really register himself as a major proponent of it), and his odd insistence that Rat stick to the dayvig deadline. 

After rereading and looking at all three of them through the game, I think Ciato looks fishiest at the moment.  She lacks presence even more than I thought on reread.

##Vote: Ciato

[Sierra]

Hm. Agreed. I keep forgetting Cor and Ciato are in the game. Not a good sign. Cor's actually said a couple things I think are questionable (I noted this near the end of day one), but Ciato hasn't even posted since day two started. Lady Door looks comparitively fine to me at the moment--at the very least, she's been quite active. So, let's see if we can summon the SaGa vamp:

##Vote: Ciato

[Luther Lansfeld]

Oookay. I was really hoping Day 2 would start a little later! I have no real excuses, I've been just pretty soul-crushingly busy the last week or so. Let me catch up on Day 2 before I actually post anything else.

[Lady Door]

Yakumo:

This leaves me looking at a few people, though.  Lady Door(and Excal, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now) seemed to be pressing me fairly hard for trying to make a case on lynching a lurker, and was apparently around two hours from     line yet refused to be the hammer. 

This was my last post before the hammer:

Alright. 2ish hours to deadline, I'm all for LAL at this point.

Not going to hammer, though (as the next vote will).

Alex? Were you going to make that post laying out your general thoughts? Now'd be a decent time to do it.

In response to:

I'd like to make another post before the day ends with some general thoughts, just in case I don't live to see tomorrow, so don't anyone go stealth hammering. 

... so yeah. I didn't hammer. After my last post, RL came up, so I wasn't here to drop it after Alex got his chance to have a say.

I was pressing a point with you that your logic for voting for Drac seemed to apply just as well to you, and I was trying to see if you had a better reason than the obvious (that is, that of course you're not going to vote for yourself).

Alex:

After this game, I seriously would like someone to point out to me what horrible mistakes I keep making so I can STOP MAKING THEM. Everyone seems to be jumping on me for these things, and "lynch bad players" is good policy when you have nothing else to go on, but aside from fairly specious arguments that "scum makes mistakes therefore your mistakes mean you're scum" I honestly don't know what I'm doing that's so bad. I can't fix it if you don't tell me what it is.

I was sympathetic to someone who looked like they were about to go under the dayvig without having a chance to defend themselves. As I said several times, I still fully supported the kill. I would figure you, having been in a similar place, would understand why I might be hesitant to let it get pushed through so quickly.

Other things:

Re: Ciato

(Actually, I think I'll split this post for my own sanity.)

Edit: Hi, Ciato. Timely.

[Yakumo]

Well, Ciato has some pressure on her already(and just showed up while I was typing), so I'm going to take a slightly different path.  Corwin, much like Ciato, hasn't said much of anything yet that really sticks with me.  He was a fair bit more active during day one, though even then he had a fair few posts that were one or two lines and not much of actual use.  It's kinda hard to hold a lack of day 2 content against him right now, though, as we really didn't get a whole lot of it early with the vigkill virtually a lock and Alex acting on his message from the mod.  Just, nothing he's said strikes me as a solid stance on anything yet, and I'd like him to fix that when his time zone rolls around and he can do so.

Edit for LD ninja post:  Alright, that's understandable.  Alex didn't respond for a half hour after you said that, and VSM ended the day about 20 minutes later, so that's not a big window to come in and do it.  As for the pressure on me, though, I said that I was going to LAL, as I didn't find any better case, and even if you believe that I didn't have any more content than Drac(which I disagree with, but I digress), what else did you expect me to do?  I'm not going to vote to lynch myself for lurking, and nobody else was anywhere near that bad about it.  I still think you and Excal were pushing me a lot harder than that deserved.

[Veryslightlymad]

Good "morning". (I thought I'd get into character by waking up at 9 PM)

Short version: Yes, I roleblocked Alex.

[Smodge13]

Just in case of what, exactly?

Anyway, I guess I have to agree that Alex is what he says he is, and the mod is introducing more chaos into our games.  So, I need to find someone else to look at for our actual lynch.  Excal being scum can't be discounted just yet, but I think we can at least shelve him until later.  VSM appears to be a town roleblocker, but his name was put out there by scum, so we can't trust that until he speaks up.

Alex is one of the people i'm confident a vote won't follow me onto.

I just thought of something, flavorwise it would make sense for there to be an anony-voting nosferatu out there.

As for Excal being scum, its not 100% that he's town but i'm willing to say 95%, unless of course you want to assume we're both scum-buddies.

Excal targetted Andrew last night, so if Excal was scum he would have to have a role of somesort AND target his own scumbuddy with it (therefore it couldn't be an overly harmful role) just in case town has a watcher targetting him?.

I think its close enough to assume Excal is cleared.

[Lady Door]

I don't find anything horribly scummy in anyone really.

...wait, what am I saying? I generally don't like replacing idle role pondering with good ol' fashioned scum-hunting, and his obsessive dwelling over one or two subjects while seeing to pass through all the rest.  approve of aggressive play, but I don't approve at all of focus.

Not really a lot of time to do anything regardless; I hate this lynch, I think there are better suspects than lurkers, but if we want a lynch by deadline, I'll take it.

See and compare the underlined and bolded snippets. In the parts of the posts not quoted, she talked about maybe possibly voting for vsm (based on ... not liking his attitude?) but decided not to,

She's made one vote the entire time (no, people, I'm not saying "hey, this person voted a lot, they must be town!"), and it was on Otter. She subsequently didn't make a single comment about him, even though one of her few posts came before he was dayvig'd and after he'd written a defense about himself.

She has posted some thoughts on the arguments at hand, but ultimately didn't come to any conclusions. Fine, sure, but without any votes to back up her thoughts, and lots of apparent jumping in between several "candidates," I don't know where she stands on anything and I'm pretty sure that makes her stand a little iffy to me.

##VOTE Ciato

I'd like to hear what you have to say!

Edit for Yakumo ninja post: Basically I was pointing out to you that the criteria you were using to finger Drac were things I thought you fairly well met. I'm still paying more attention to you than others because I'd like to see more from you. I'm not voting you for it 'cause, yeah, you came in medias res. You've got a perfectly valid reason. I'm just still seeing a bit of the things that worry me in other people -- namely, content without any real meat. I appreciate a few thoughts on other people, though. 

Edit for other ninja posting: I'll look at you in a minute.

[Lady Door]

Aren't votes usually tallied chronologically? Why would you think anony was tied to you, smodge, if it appeared first in the vote list AND Andrew's vote appeared in between yours and it?

[Yakumo]

They are tallied chronologically, but doublevotes don't always fit that rule.  They can follow after a period of time, also.  It's up to the mod.

[Lady Door]

Fair enough! Thank you.

One more thing (more to vsm, for obvious reasons): why would you roleblock Alex?