Author Topic: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia  (Read 51093 times)

Sierra

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #425 on: February 10, 2008, 01:23:10 PM »
Alex: I agree that QR's actions with the doublevote are odd. However, she didn't have to claim it, and she didn't have to explain herself. Even if her breaking her claimed restriction of not referring to anyone by their real name was a genuine accident, the best thing she could've done as scum would be to not come out about it. If the anonyvote simply disappeared with no explanation, Town would be baffled and talking about it for a while. Town being confused is always something the scum want. Also, if it had simply disappeared without explanation, VSM would wind up looking off (I'm sure someone would've speculated that he put the vote on himself at the beginning of this day to allay suspicion, in that scenario).

Of course, the counter to this is that she roleclaimed in response to your call for such because that's what everyone was doing, or because she feared that you might already know something about the power (because it's quite well established by now that you have all sorts of extraneous information you shouldn't reasonably have. If you've been told what roles are present in the game, I'm officially calling yours the most broken role ever, even if you don't know which players the abilities are tied to).

So, the SaGa vamp reappears! With the kind of substantial post I'd wanted to see. I'm...not sure it's enough to unvote her, though, since scum would also do that when backed against a wall. I'll feel a lot better if she stays active and keeps putting out that kind of analysis. But there's a fair amount of time left in the day and she's not exactly -1 to hammer here, so yeah.

As for Corwin? ...Another vig claim. But we already know we're in a messed-up game, so the claim being true isn't beyond the realm of possibility. Now, supposing a scum Cor claimed it to provoke a counterclaim from the real vig (Alex has stated there is another vig in the game, after all--hell if I can figure why he should know that, but he has all sorts of information a player shouldn't have this early). He wasn't actually in that much danger (one vote and a couple people voicing suspicion), so I'm not sure I'd buy that possibility. We've already killed two scum, so putting himself out there just to draw out a town role (even something as potent as vig) doesn't seem like something he'd do as scum. And of course, if he is town, he shouldn't be lying. Unless we get a counterclaim for nightvig, I'm buying Cor's roleclaim. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's town, of course. With this much firepower on town's side, something should balance it out (well, should, yeah).

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #426 on: February 10, 2008, 04:32:49 PM »
It wasn't a gutvote. It was me pointing out what I considered (correctly!) to be an inconsistency in his philosophy.
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Corwin

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #427 on: February 10, 2008, 04:49:50 PM »
It's awesome that you respond to a specific, single line out of all I've written with an answer that I consider debatable rather than clear-cut. Regardless. Alex's plan seems to be to win via mass roleclaiming, and basically catching scum as they slip up, while also relying on a block of reasonably-confirmed townies.

Roleclaim, Dear, please~

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #428 on: February 10, 2008, 05:02:47 PM »
Also, Corwin, not all of the things cited on my list were bad things. I was going through the topic and talking about everything I considered noteworthy. Voting for scum is something I consider extremely noteworthy, and depending on the timing lessens suspicions of said person. The main reasons I voted for you is for the anon vote stuff (which in my opinion was really really really weird, there is no reason to allow that IMO) and for pushing for El-Cid to prove his powers. Most of the rest of the stuff was notes. I don't believe in just going in and highlighting everything bad about someone because, while scum-catching is on my priority list, misrepresenting someone to make them look worse via only quoting/noticing bad things while ignoring the good things they do is a recipe for disaster.

And... blah, whatever. I'm not going to be able to put in substanial posts. I am on a computer whose characters I can barely read, I have an entire day of business ahead of me, I have Physics homework waiting for me at school, I have a Calculus exam on Tuesday. I don't have any stupid roleclaim to save me WHICH IS THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENS IN EVERY GAME. I always get stuck being a vanilla townie, and because of a goddamn obsession with roles I have to fight for my life for the virtue of not having a power. I'm just... sick of being on the ass end of this. This is so stupid. I'm tired of being attacked over being a busy student. Why did I even let Tom talk me into playing? I've been TRYING to add posts of substance in day 1, but apparently everyone has ignored them for the fact that I WAS GONE ON THE FIRST PART OF DAY 2 despite it being like 12 hours like it's some kind of cardinal sin to have something to do for one day. I'm sick of Mafia. Making people play who don't want to play is stupid. It just wastes lynches for no reason.

Corwin, of course, has this convinent little roleclaim shit to save him. Of course I don't have anything BECAUSE I ALWAYS GET STUCK WITH NOTHING. Watching all these games devolve to some sort of "who really has the roles!!!" crap instead of investigation, which is WHAT IT SHOULD BE, is so annoying. Like for example, VSM basically has done nothing for as long as I can remember besides argue with Rat, but he gets a free pass to not do shit because of a role. This is ridiculous. WoW Mafia was really awesome because of this, but I'd like to see a bigger setup there, but all this role madness is just... retarded.

I tried to help find things on people I considered scum. I guess that's not good enough because I'M SCUM BACKED AGAINST A WALL because I so spent five hours of my life on dialup on a 16 color computer digging through 17 pages of posts to conclude that smodge isn't very scummy BECAUSE I AM EVIL SCUM.


##UNVOTE: Corwin because of zomgz roleclaim
##VOTE: QuietRain wtf doublevote

El-Cid is also really scummy to me for all his polarization earlier, plus if town all has the powerz of death as everyone seems to think, having zee Govenor as a scum power would be a way to stop more kills.
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Yakumo

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #429 on: February 10, 2008, 05:09:57 PM »
Wait, what?  TWO daykill vigs, a NK vig, a prince that gets enough info from the mod to confirm the NK vig without him actually having to do anything?  Yeah, there's role madness here, but it's all on your side.  The only scum left is me, the Godfather, and I'm not in any mood to try and win a game where the deck is stacked this far against me, I didn't really want to be playing in the first place.  Sorry if I'm ruining this for anyone else, but continuing this way is just going to turn me off the Mafia thing more.

##Vote: Myself

Corwin

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #430 on: February 10, 2008, 05:12:13 PM »
I wish I could say I was surprised just about everything.

##Unvote: VanillaTownie
##Vote: Yakufather

QuietRain

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #431 on: February 10, 2008, 05:14:07 PM »
And Cid pretty much hit the nail on the head there, Alex.  Because the very last thing any of the recent Mafia games I've been in has been is fun for me, I *gasp* decided that for once when I have an amusing role, I would actually be amused by it.   And so long as I was careful to keep a very close eye on where the vote went, I do NOT feel unjustified in using it in that fashion.  VSM's votes were in line with where I wad content to let my seperate vote ride.  I didn't have to keep quiet about what I'd done.  I full claimed so that no one would wonder where it had come from and if it were suddenly going to jump out of nowhere and hammer someone.  For all that we were all trying to be more serious than usual on a Day 1 because we had the Dayvig ability, it was still Day 1 and with no real knowledge of who was and was not scum, it was a cr**shoot anyway, so why not double my chances of hitting scum?

Now, moving on to the issues at hand, I'm not opposed to mass roleclaims, but I don't really see the need.  So long as one of the scum had good knowledge of the setting, I'm sure they all talked it over and came up with good cover stories.  I think the case against Ciato is the best one and since Town doesn't lynch without majority, I will throw my vote there.

##Vote Ciato
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #432 on: February 10, 2008, 05:14:31 PM »
##UNVOTE: QR
##VOTE: Yakko

I love you, man. Thanks.
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

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QuietRain

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #433 on: February 10, 2008, 05:15:22 PM »
Just saw Yakko's post.

And I am sending SO MUCH sympathy for Andy at the moment.

##Vote Yakko
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Lady Door

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #434 on: February 10, 2008, 05:55:04 PM »
I -- uh, wait. What?

##UNVOTE Ciato
##VOTE Yakumo

*sighs*
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Sierra

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #435 on: February 10, 2008, 06:24:47 PM »
Alright then, let's get this over with.

##Unvote: Ciato
##Vote: Yakumo

Shale

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #436 on: February 10, 2008, 06:33:29 PM »
That's hammer.
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Kilgamayan

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #437 on: February 10, 2008, 06:48:50 PM »
HAMMER STOP TALKING etc.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

EvilTom

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #438 on: February 10, 2008, 09:15:03 PM »
Yeah well, that's game. Not an especially exciting ending, but there you go.

So, what went wrong?
I'd say having to replace two thirds of team scum at last minute, which is basically why I couldn't just modkill otherwise.. that would be it.
Also it looks like after dropping the game from 25 players to 17 and then 15, I didn't rebalance it as well as I thought I had.

That aside, town played well. Hitting that many scum that quickly (even without investiagtive roles, I mean two scum on day 1, then the cop picks the next scum to investigate leaving 1 scum vs a gazillion town) was unexpected, so well played.

Thanks to those who jumped in as replacements, though I fear it was like a band-aid for a beheading.

I'll post the role list in a sec.
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

EvilTom

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #439 on: February 10, 2008, 09:20:55 PM »
TOWN: (13)
-----------------
1. Daykill Vig - (The Prince) Carthrat
2. Cop - (The Sheriff) Excal
3. Tracker - (Harpy)  Smodge
4. Paranoid Doc - anyone he protects has their powers blocked - (Police escort) VSM
5. Backup Daykill Vig – Sir Alex (Seneschal), backup Prince
6. Vigilante (Turns SK when Daykill Vig and Backup Daykill Vig die) - (Scourge)  Corwin
7. Governor - (Keeper of Elysium El Cideon
8. Bodyarmor: Immune to NK - (Gangrel)  Lady Door
9. Crazy Malkavian – Doublevote/town drunk: Quietrain
10. Vanilla: Shale
11. Vanilla: CIATO


SCUM: (3)
---------------
12. Godfather – Yakumo
13. Roleblocker - Drac
14. Silencer - OR Watcher power AndrewRogue


OTHER (1)
----------------
15. The Hunter Otter


Night 1 actions:
Excal cops Andrew = scum
VSM paranoid docs Alex
Yakumo kills shale
Smodge tracks Excal


VSM was told he was a paranoid doc, Corwin wasn't told he's switch to SK (but there were hints in the flavourtext)
Yakumo also had the power to turn his scumbuddies into godfathers, but they kinda all died before it became useful.
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

Kilgamayan

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #440 on: February 10, 2008, 09:54:52 PM »
So is QR doomed to always have a weird posting restriction at this point?


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

AndrewRogue

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #441 on: February 10, 2008, 10:08:57 PM »
Dot dot fucking dot.

Otter

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #442 on: February 10, 2008, 10:11:28 PM »
Hey so I was a 3rd-party with no allies and no powers except Bomb status.  I was supposed to win by surviving to the final two (me and one other person, didn't matter who), despite the fact that both scum and town wanted me dead (and I'd turn up 3rd party to any cop investigation).  How cool is that!?!

AndrewRogue

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #443 on: February 10, 2008, 10:12:12 PM »
From my understanding of how Hunter works, it was fairly realistic.

>_>

Smodge13

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #444 on: February 10, 2008, 10:13:52 PM »
Hey so I was a 3rd-party with no allies and no powers except Bomb status.  I was supposed to win by surviving to the final two (me and one other person, didn't matter who), despite the fact that both scum and town wanted me dead (and I'd turn up 3rd party to any cop investigation).  How cool is that!?!
At least you didn't end up playing a chick.
>.>
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Otter

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #445 on: February 10, 2008, 10:13:59 PM »
Doesn't change the fact that I was given a role with no realistic chance of victory, and it looks like you scum were in the same boat.

Smodge13

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #446 on: February 10, 2008, 10:17:33 PM »
yeah, you guys really got screwed over in the fairness department.

However this game has motivated me to make one myself, a small extra variant will be put in that should reward a persons ability to use logic, but i'm going to need a sanity proofer (and alot of time while i wait for the games in that signup thread to empty)

Ranmilia

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #447 on: February 10, 2008, 10:19:56 PM »
Mmyeah, I half expected to wake up to this (though I thought there would be two scum left, with this many town powers). 

This game was, yet again, ridiculously unbalanced and unfun.  Scum had absolutely no chance of winning at any point and the game was role madness from the start.

Despite being the one who had all the info this time, I was also demoralized from the instant I got those PMs because I knew this would happen and I knew it would just turn people off from Mafia more.  Which I absolutely hate.  Most likely I'm going to go institute some much harsher rules on who should be modding games, assuming everyone hasn't given up on it altogether by now. 


Shale

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #448 on: February 10, 2008, 10:20:43 PM »
Okay, one thing to point out:

Quote
- There are no players or parties that would cause the game to end Day 1 or Night 1.

Was not true. If town had killed scum with the Day 1 dayvig and lynch, and the remaining scum had targeted Otter for the nightkill, the game would have ended right there.
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Smodge13

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Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia
« Reply #449 on: February 10, 2008, 10:23:35 PM »
I think the key thign we keep missing is C9, C9 or C7 should be the basis of every game, C9 seems the fairer so i will use it as the example.
Roles+scum = no more than 45% of total players
Vanilla townies should be 55% of players