World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

[Smodge13]

Corwin up next

Corwin
1. Posts a small amount day 1, is supposedly away for the lynch.
2. Day 2 he goes after LD, Comments minorly on myself and Tom.
3. Switches to QR and comes back once again to LD, always LD.
4. Day 3 and what a surprise >.> LD again.

Not much but he keeps goign for 1 target and not commiting on anything else, very few thoughts and quite lurkerish

Smaller than i expected.

[Corwin]

If you ignore I commented on Alex and QR looking the same way the always do, and that I preferred to watch Rat until a later time when I'd be able to make a call about him. Argh lurker whatever I have no words.

[Smodge13]

Alex, i swear there isn't a game YET when i haven't thought of you as scum at some point.

1. Day 1 comes after me based on Ciato's Gut, simply because theres nothing else to go on.
2.  Day 2 votes for me again, "same reason as day 1" what Ciato's gut claim and i put her at 2 votes in joke vote stage?.
But it did get discussion going.
3. didn't vote for Strago LaL Alex's opinions seem to change from game to game, sometimes he does it sometimes he doesn't

Uh wow quicklynch much?
##Unvote: Smodge so he's not at -1.  Really want to hear from him, though I can already guess what he's going to say and where his vote's going to go.

Curiosity strikes me here Alex, where did you think my vote was going? and what i was going to say?
4. The votes on me seem to be more of a "talk more" vote.
5.  Minorly uncivil

Hmmkay.  To me this is shaping up to be Tsukihime 2, without the role insanity - in other words, the game's being obscured by inexperienced players (Smodge, Tom and Ladydoor) and folks what don't post (Strago

This comment hurts a bit, may have increased chances of making Tom "blow up"
6.

At the moment I'm keeping with Smodge, on the grounds of oddity with his saying "Rat is usually right" statement pushing him up a little further than the rest of the crowd on my list.

Takes this as evidence to stay on me despite the fact he followed Ciato's gutclaim.
Defends himself by saying Timing was the key, the difference is i wanted to hear Rats thoughts i never said they would influence me nor did i let it decide a vote.
7.

As for what Smodge is poking me on - yes, I do indeed find "Rat is usually right" less valid than "Ciato is usually right."  If you look at the game history I'm referring to, Rat's been scum a majority of the games he's played in, while I have personally played games against Ciato as scum where she seemed to be almost psychic in picking out the scumteam, and I've seen her repeat this as a mod/observer in other games.  Rat's historical arguments often read logically, but since they are from scum-Rat, if anything this says that his apparently logical judgments should NOT be trusted.  The timing of the claims is also different.  My statement came as a start to serious day 1 discussion, where a Ciatogut is about as good as anything else to get things going.  Your statement is on day 2, when there's a case getting pressed on you, and could easily be read as an attempt to curry favor with Rat to save your skin.

If its Ciato gut Day 1, why did it carry to serious day 2? you seem to change your reasoning here.
8. we then get into the psychology discussion nothing really important here,
9. Picks Tom to vote day 2 seems like the better idea now (and had i seen QR's post before deadline i probably would have switched myself).

Alot more written here on Alex than Corwin AND LD, however he seems to always have a reason forr his actions and so is 3rd on my list of scumminess.

[Smodge13]

Last but not Least

Eviltom
I honestly think you have taken a slight backstep with this game skillwise.
1. Votes for LaL.
2. Corrected my grammar (nothing wrong with that) but was then a bit rude when i asked for his thoughts.
3. Accused me of not giving my thoughts in that same post when its exactly what i did.
4. Lashes out at a few people, becomes quite....... grumpy <.<
5. Then leads things off-topic about sentence interpretation
6. Gives thoughts on everyone finally, (including the deceased Ciato)
7. Goes to sleep and becomes more Civil next morning, Votes for QR on self-preservation reasons.
8. Roleclaims right before deadline, and Rat who is town switches the vote to save him.

Honestly it can all be summed up as just 1 giant smoke-screen, personally think it's just Tom being his usual Tom self.

[EvilTom]

Right, it is highly bizarre that Carthrat was killed. It makes no sense. He hammered town in day 1, and town cop in day 2. Why would scum kill someone like that?

Reading back through his posts, it looks like Alex and Smodge were his secondary targets. Obviously I was his primary target right up until the end, so it would be a bad idea for me to have killed him, but perfect for S/A if they wanted to frame me.
Also reading right back to the beginning of day 2, there was a lot of suspicion on him due to Ciato/Smodge debate. That was cut off prematurely when LD accidentally over-voted Smodge (if you believe her, which I do).

Something else I've noticed is that with all Smodge's long summaries, they're not very useful. They seem to gloss over certain areas, and inflate other ones. I guess that's to be expected, but with his 'order of scummyness' and very little substance behind it other than vague activity descriptions.. it has the potential to be very misleading, moreso than useful.
What am I getting at? I reckon Smodge is throwing up all these blurb posts to fill in his activity for the day, without doing anything risky, such as votes or touching on anything of real importance.

Here's where I really managed to dig up some evidence.
On day 2, QR started that previous train on Smodge that I mentioned. A short while later, Smodge counter-votes QR. Smodge and Alex seem to gang up on her... (this is around post #110). Alex doesn't vote QR though. I'm not sure if Alex is tied into this or not, but Smodge looks bad from both his voting record, his position with the dead, and the way that he looks like he's pretending to be helpful. He seems to lack the genuine helpfulness we're used to.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and hope that by going back to the town's original instincts, and with this new angle, we're getting to the root of the problem. ##Vote Smodge13

[See, I do stuff when I have info, just not day 1, I suck at day 1 >.>"]

[Smodge13]

I reckon Smodge is throwing up all these blurb posts to fill in his activity for the day, without doing anything risky, such as votes or touching on anything of real importance.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and hope that by going back to the town's original instincts, and with this new angle, we're getting to the root of the problem. ##Vote Smodge13

[See, I do stuff when I have info, just not day 1, I suck at day 1 >.>"]

Dude, WTF, the reason i haven't voted yet is because if we miss by even the slightest amount Scum could Hammer it at ANY moment.
This is coming way out of Left field, your putting the whole game at risk before everyone even checks in.

[Smodge13]

Seriously, i forgave incompetance before but this pushes the limit.

[Smodge13]

Woops sorry about impoliteness, this just really Annoys me, Either Tom is Scum or thankfully their not around atm.

[EvilTom]

Or, I'm right and you are scum.

[EvilTom]

And, after your OMGUS burst, I believe it a lot more now. Your reaction reinforced my belief, thanks.

[Smodge13]

Right, it is highly bizarre that Carthrat was killed. It makes no sense. He hammered town in day 1, and town cop in day 2. Why would scum kill someone like that?

Reading back through his posts, it looks like Alex and Smodge were his secondary targets.

Rats Secondary target?

Care to point out where i can't find it.

I can see things like this

I don't think Smodge is behaving terribly scummy. That is to say, I believe the scumminess of his early vote on day 1 has been severely overstated, and he has not been acting out of character at all. I really, really dislike his play (it's very reliant on others, as has been pointed out), but it's what he does. All the time. He needs to stop. I think being conscious of his own ineptitude could be seen as a good thing? Maybe?

I do however see things like this.

So. I wanted to shove discussion in a new direction after Alex's post pointed out things were stalling, thus my sudden burst of hyperaggression. Tom has, however, one-upped me AGAIN and I feel compelled to vote for him once more. Still want him to reply to my earlier question (there is a point to it!)

##Unvote, ##Vote: Dread Thomas.

AH GEEZ GOD WHY

Alex if you're here, LD is being gay and not posting and I can't expect either QR or Tom to change votes. QR doesn't look that great lately, I'd rather kill TOM, WHAT like no time##Unvote, ##Vote: QR

So your reasoning of me being Rats target?
Seems you were that.

Something else I've noticed is that with all Smodge's long summaries, they're not very useful. They seem to gloss over certain areas, and inflate other ones. I guess that's to be expected, but with his 'order of scummyness' and very little substance behind it other than vague activity descriptions.. it has the potential to be very misleading, moreso than useful.
What am I getting at? I reckon Smodge is throwing up all these blurb posts to fill in his activity for the day, without doing anything risky, such as votes or touching on anything of real importance.

Not useful? Like the Giant Smokescrean you Create over Day 2, this isn't the first time you have accused my posts of not being useful.

Quoting the dead Alot, Especially Rat

Smodge has stepped up and given me a lot to read.  After his responses to our concerns, if he's scum, he's doing a darn good job of hiding it from me.  I think for now, I feel he's closer to town than the latter.  As such.  ##Unvote Smodge.

Oh, please.

Smodge hasn't been lurking. This is basically true. I can point to clear and specific examples of where he has made posts, and I know his work-related excuses are valid. Give it up. Stop making these lame dire threats of "WELL YOU WON'T GET A FREE PASS, GOODSIR!"

I am not taking your quote out of context! Also, you bitch about this way too much! You said something that is basically reminding us all that you're not scum. You are also ignoring the whole concept of implied statements, like...

"Haha, EvilTom plays like a newbie." (Try to guess what I'm implying.)

I could have put this nicely! I'm NOT because I think your defence was WEAK. If your quote was indeed taken out of context, then you need to WATCH YOUR WORDS more carefully and CONSIDER how others may read them. Yes, that means YOU must adjust YOUR playing style. Not that EVERYONE ELSE must THINK DIFFERENT to accomdately YOU playing BADLY.

YOU have played terribly this game Tom, i took it at first to you just having an "off game" but now i see it as what it was a deliberate SCUM attack, Create a big-ol smokescreen and town will just think "it's jsut Tom being Tom".

Lets See you Correct my grammar and were uncivil, people warned you about this in Touhou but you still did it here, i just thought "slow learner" but obviously i was wrong.
You then lead the town off into a discussion about sentence interpretation, more distraction for day 2.
Finally you roleclaim vanilla (obviously) but if QR didn't turn out to be cop you put the real cop at a greater risk by claiming it.

Rudeness, Accusing me of lurking when i wasn't, Faulty arguments, leading the town on a tangent, roleclaim vanilla, and finally a vote that could cost the game based on your arguments "Rats secondary target, and unhelpful", Major Pot/Kettle Moment there, Looks like scum finally slipped up and revealed himself.

Good thing is, i'm not worried about scum hammer because i'm confident in this.
##Vote:EvilTom

[EvilTom]

Yep, definately OMGUS. And you're jumping on the same old arguments from earlier to try and throw people off track. Just like what happened at the start of day 2.
Jumping on me with an OMGUS vote doesn't make you look any better either. If anything, it makes you look worse because you give no regard for possible scumhammer. Of course, since you're scum you don't have to worry about that.

Good thing is, i'm not worried about scum hammer because i'm confident in this.

You weren't confident in it enough after your 'summaries'. You're confident in OMGUS, though. Because you're starting to slip up.

[Corwin]

Tom's right about smodge going from "You're the last one I'd suspect" to "You are the scum!" being terribly suspicious. He mentions OMGUS, which is probably true, but that would actually lessen the scumminess and draw things towards bad play territory. And WHAT. Why is everyone voting off the bat during LYLO, oh the hate.

Tom's reasoning of Rat fingering smodge, however, is faulty. Smodge reasoning that Rat was gunning for Tom... is likewise faulty, given he even quotes Rat switching his vote from Tom to QR. Given pure numbers, it's likely one of them is scum. I sincerely hope they're not both scum engaging in a crazy staged fight, because that's likely to cost us the game.

Tom! This is what you said:

Something else I've noticed is that with all Smodge's long summaries, they're not very useful. They seem to gloss over certain areas, and inflate other ones.

Can you give a few examples for this that jumped at you? I don't mean the lack of usefulness, I've come to expect that from smodge, but the inflating/glossing over part.

[Ranmilia]

Oh god what LYLO vote before everyone's even here?!  DON'T DO THAT!

Well, geez.  My first order of business over the night phase was reading back through QR's posts and trying to figure out who she investigated night 1.  Unfortunately I'm not finding a clear answer.  She didn't press any cases very hard, so she almost certainly got an innocent result.  She dropped fairly serious votes on Smodge, Tom and Corwin, so it's safe to say her investigation wasn't one of them.  Beyond that it's shaky.  Looking at what she wrote in her list post makes me think it wasn't Rat... but her comment about scum getting too lucky now seems to point at her target having been Ciato, perhaps?  The people on the line at end of day 1 (in my view) were Smodge (case on him) and Ciato and myself (pressed case on him).... well, the upshot is that I can't say anyone's cleared out of it.

Future reference for cops, please try make your investigations easy to determine after your death!

As for today, one of Smodge and Tom is scum.  (or scumteam isn't around yet, in which case the game will be over when they are so that's not worth considering.)

Don't forget the possibility that both of them are scum.

Out of the two, though, I'm pretty much already sold on Tom.  Everything that I said yesterday about his attitude and playstyle still holds true, plus we have him making large mistakes (Ciato's dead, hi) and casting a first vote in LYLO out of the blue. 

Announcing intent to vote Tom.

[EvilTom]

Corwin: No problem. What jumped out at me first, was his summary of Lady Door. It barely scrapes the surface of her activity so far, and the little that he does bother to mention is only the minor mistakes she made early on. Since then she's made many great contributions.

Further, he only mentions voting record for each player when it suits him. If he's doing a breakdown like this, why wouldn't there be a consistent voting analysis too? Why only in certain parts?

Re: Both myself and Smodge being scum - I can't see how that would benefit scum. Scum has 2 players alive, all they need to do is bandwagon the first target that comes up and they've won. There's no reason for a staged fight. Not that I can imagine, anyway.

and casting a first vote in LYLO out of the blue. 

What, I'm not allowed to cast a vote? I'm fully aware that scum can hammer. But the alternative that you're suggesting is that.. I shouldn't vote on my own initiative?

Oh god what LYLO vote before everyone's even here?!

See. This. This is wrong. There's 2 scum here, and 3 town. Groupthink here will get town KILLED. Why? Because scum have a 40% holding right now. Not just on votes, but on discussion and general thought. If we don't all think on our own, scum are going to take advantage of that and push the game in the direction they want.

You're saying.. I should wait for scum to show up? Why? So the two scum can easily outweigh my valid opinions? You're trying to browbeat me here out of my vote. I find this disturbing. You've said you think I'm scum, but...

Do you think Smodge is town? How can you be sure, Alex? You seem pretty dead set against me voting for him.

I appreciate the idea that we shouldn't just throw down 'pressure' votes or whatnot, we're well beyond that stage now. But, at the same time, we can't make 'drag out the day for full discussion' to be the goal. Discussion right now, with 40% scum, provides opportunity for valid town ideas to be beaten down and ignored. I am not saying discussion is bad. I am saying we should look at the facts and evidence we have so far.

I have done this, and I came up with Smodge.

I'd like you to answer my question, why are you so sure that we shouldn't vote for Smodge?

[Ranmilia]

Because it's LYLO, which means if a townie votes another townie even ONCE, scum hammer it and win.  If you are wrong SCUM WIN IMMEDIATELY.  If you are townie, you cannot be certain of alignments, and it would be extremely irresponsible for you to vote Smodge and risk being wrong and losing the game this early in the game day, without giving everyone a chance to join in the discussion.  You are right that we must be wary of scum influencing the discussion, but it is very wrong to cut discussion off and recklessly take the game into your own hands.  Of course, that might seem appealing if you *do* know alignments.

When a vote has been cast and LYLO proceeds to a situation like this, at least one of the two is scum.  I have tons of reason to believe you are scum, and this faulty LYLO play argument is a real kicker.

##Vote: EvilTom

[Corwin]

Agreed. ##Vote: EvilTom

[Lady Door]

NO NO NO.

ReMOVE your vote from Tom. You're making a HUGE mistake if you don't.

I'm writing content now.

[Ranmilia]

Um, that was hammer.  It's a little late.  >_>

Andrew's not here yet but Rat already IM'd me and spilled the beans, so... good game.  I had Cor pegged, but Tom jumped the gun, so there was nothing else to be done.

[Lady Door]

... it was? I thought it required three votes? O_o

*reads*

oh damn, I missed smodge's. Well then. >_< *prods Andrew to wake up*

[AndrewRogue]

Alas, the third day brought arguments that were swift, brutal and harsh. Tom laid a decisive finger out.

"It must be Smodge!"

Alex, aghast by his actions, came to the only conclusion he could. "To do that in this situation! You must be one of the killers!"

The crowd fell upon Tom in an instant, dragging him to the makeshift gallows, intent on the kill. Suddenly, though, he went limp in their arms.

"Don't be fooled! He's feigning death!"

With a final cry of frustration as he was still moved and noosed, Tom dangled. Out of his pocked fell a list of new pet abilities. For all that they overpowered Hunters, there was no way a dev would ever consider giving them new pet abilities.

EvilTom, temp Hunter rep (TOWN) has been lynched.

It was then that, from the back of the room, a slow clapping was heard. "Good job, ladies and gents. Now if you don't mind, we have a game to get back to fixing." Smodge stepped forward

Corwin smiled. "I'm ashamed of you all. You should have guessed from the arena complaints that we'd be on the side of healing classes."

Smodge shook his head. "I do believe town is about to wipe."

Corwin stepped forward. "Indeed, my old friend."

LadyDoor (TOWN) temp Warrior rep got GANKED.
Alex (TOWN) temp Shaman rep got GANKED.

As of Patch 2.4, Druids are still overpowered and Priests have recently become second best class in the game...

[AndrewRogue]

Night 1
Ciato protects Carth
QR investigates Ciato
Scum kill Ciato

Night 2
Scum kill Carth

[Strago]

Many apologies to town for my disappearance. I was a lot busier than I thought I'd be, and had forgotten when Day 1 was ending. Kyar.

[QuietRain]

*sigh*  I suck at playing anything other than vanilla, I swear to DOG!

[Ranmilia]

Don't feel too bad, you did kind of claim your result.  I just interpreted it as a scumtell instead.  Would've been nice if you'd claimed to avoid the lynch, but it's mostly on my head for not lynching Tom anyhow.