Author Topic: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)  (Read 45502 times)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2009, 09:24:56 PM »
Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra- 4
Rufus- 7
Heidigger- 5
Scarlet- 3. Yeah, that slapping scene does hurt her character.
Sephiroth- 8. Just...incredibly effective.
Reno- 7. Is cool.
Rude- 4. Is there.
Elena- 2. And takes away from the fact that the Turks are supposed to be some scary merc, in theory.
Jenova- DNR. Creature Sephiroth throws at you.
Tseng- 4
Hojo- 4
Palmer- 3. Point for getting hit by a truck.
Don Corneo- 2.

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea- 5. She's kind of in a DNR zone, but at the same time, I can't really carry her points over to Ultimecia, so I'm at least noting this. She definitely had a nice aura of mystery about her which worked really well, for all that she didn't actually do much.
Ultimecia- 3. Certainly her speaking style means she was a joke villain?! Even giving her credit for possession, she...didn't really do very much during those times anyways. Ugh, 1 point for great taste in villianous architecture though.
Seifer- 2. I just don't find a villain that I have to take ironically to be good.
Fujin- 4. BAD.
Raijin- 3. Ya?
Adel- 2. I do want to know why she's a giant though.

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja- 8. For the third game in a row, just a very, very effective villain.
Brahne- 5. She at least filled her role well! Very good at the two-faced unmitigated bastard role.
Thorn/Zorn- 2. Sad things clearly were meant to be humorous.
Necron- 1
Lani- 3
Beatrix- 7. Very threatening and competent as a villain. Certainly, showing up time after time to smash you into bits helped with that.
Garland- 5
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2009, 12:23:35 AM »
Uh, yeah.  Ratings are for *dramatic* worth, or my ratings at least.  A really compelling miserable failure is dramatically awesome, even if the character is lame, so uh I never understood the need for a Seifer clause really (everyone's read Death of A Salesman in high school, yes?).  Meanwhile too many games are filled with characters who are theoretically awesome but totally fail as characters, often because they're in fact too flawless!  So yeah.  That out of the way.

Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra - 6/10.  Not much screentime, but he seemed interesting enough from what we learn of him.
Rufus - 8/10 Best villain in the game?  Sure.  Hell, he's even right about the "use the Huge materia to blow up Meteor," and the PCs actively annoy me for interfering with Shinra's efforts to save the world (and pretending it's for the world, rather than a more believable "They tried to kill us!  Revenge!").
Heidigger - 6/10 Amusing.
Scarlet - 5/10 There.
Sephiroth - 8/10.  Loses the tiebreak to Rufus by a lot though, this is a low 8.  Lots of style, but I definitely far prefer SOLDIER Sephiroth.  Once he goes batty and loses it, he's less interesting and more "rargh destroy."
Reno - 7/10
Rude - 7/10
Elena - 7/10.  See notes above re: Seifer clause.  Sure, ineffective, but a good character; the Turks needed someone who actually cared to play off of.
Jenova - DNR, your average evil thingy from space.
Tseng - 6/10?  Don't know that much about him aside from having a soft spot for Aeris, really.
Hojo - 5/10.  Yes, let's inject Jenova cells into random things and call it science.  I think there's a line somewhere in the game that says that Hojo pales in comparison to Professor Gast, which is a great understatement.
Palmer - 6/10 LARD.  Amusing.
Don Corneo - 6/10. Sure, another amusing enough comic relief villain.

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea - DNR.  Edea is never really a villain, as Ulty gets credit for Edea's actions on Disc 1-2.  Though Ulty-possessed Edea definitely has more style than Ulty.
Ultimecia - 4/10.  Slightly loopy plan that breaks down if you think about it too hard (though apparently semi-explained in Ultimania).  Some points for relentlessness and Time Kompression is a somewhat more original evil plan than usual (less "destroy everything" and more "everything is me").
Seifer - 8/10.  Seifer was good for what he was: a pathetic foil to Squall hungry for approval, a role he played excellently.  He does lose a few points for the story not being quite so consistent, and trying to make him out to be an actual threat a bit by the end of Disc 3.
Fujin - 6/10 Amusing.
Raijin - 6/10 See above.
Adel - 3/10 Random imprisoned sorceress.

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja - ???  Conflicted.  Kuja's story absolutely has great potential, but I can't help but think that they muffed the implementation somewhat.  Giving him ultimate power to zap Terra also felt a bit towards the villain Gary Stu side of things.  And what was the deal with his fashion sense?  Wasn't a fan of the ending either, but that was more Zidane's fault.  Uh...  call it 7/10, I guess.
Brahne - 3/10.  Now here's a villain who sucks both ways.  The game is explicit that she wasn't mind-controlled at least; there's something where she admits she lusted for power, which gets minor credit, I guess.  Sadly she never gets beyond villainous Disney stepmother level.
Thorn/Zorn - 3/10.  Whatever.  Was not terribly amused by them.
Necron - 0/10 Much worse than Zeromus.  Zeromus was at least directly connected to Zeemus, who pulled strings in the main plot of FF4.  Necron is literally out of nowhere and has nothing to do with the plot of the game.
Lani - 2/10.  I'd have forgotten her existence if it wasn't for the DL.  A villain this unmemorable can't be that great.
Beatrix - 3/10.  Massively wasted potential.  An entirely phoned-in version of the "noble badguy following orders."
Garland - 5/10 I guess?  Somewhat sympathetic, plan was definitely a bit wonky, though.

Lance

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2009, 12:36:36 AM »
Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra - 2/10. Died too quickly for me to get a good impression of him.
Rufus - 6/10. Pretty good as is, but I felt like he could have played a bigger role in the story. He had the potential to be so much better.
Heidegger - 1/10. Unimportant lackey #1.
Scarlet - 1/10. Unimportant lackey #2.
Sephiroth - 3/10. Meh. I don't dislike him, but I just can't bring myself to care about him.
Reno - 6/10. Had style, but not much else. Still, style alone is sometimes enough.
Rude - 1/10. Unimportant lackey #3.
Elena - 3/10. She was a pretty good foil for Reno and Rude, but there's not much else to her.
Jenova - 1/10. *shrug*
Tseng - 2/10. Needed more screen time.
Hojo - 4/10. Not bad.
Palmer - 2/10. Unimportant lackey #4. Gets a point for comedy relief.
Don Corneo - 3/10. He was a creep. Kind of one-dimensional, though.


Final Fantasy 8:

Edea - 5/10. I thought she was pretty effective. Kind of dropped off the face of the earth halfway through, but she was good until then.
Ultimecia - 4/10. She gets points for originality.
Seifer - 1/10. Terrible.
Fujin - 1/10. Lame.
Raijin - 1/10. Also lame.
Adel - 2/10. You know you suck as a villain when freaking Laguna can outsmart you. Gets an extra point for eating Rinoa.


Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja - 9/10. Creepy, chilling, threatening, and believable. Despite the questionable fashion sense, he is one hell of an antagonist.
Brahne - 7/10. Also played her role very well. She wanted power, and by golly, she'd get it even if it meant sacrificing her kingdom. I like it.
Thorn/Zorn - 3/10. Slightly annoying, but amusing nonetheless.
Necron - 2/10. Spoiler: Necron and Zeromus are the same person.
Lani - 4/10. Didn't do a whole lot, but I found her memorable nonetheless.
Beatrix - 8/10. She played the role of the mindless pawn really well. She was unwaveringly loyal to her kingdom, and she'd be damned if anything was going to sway that loyalty. I also loved her whole "I'm going to smash you into jelly and there's not a thing you can do about it" attitude. Whenever I had to fight her, I couldn't help but cringe and think, "Aw shit, not again...."
Garland - 4/10. He had promise. I just wish he had a bit more screen time.

OblivionKnight

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2009, 02:04:02 AM »
President Shinra - 1.0 - Been a long time since I've played FF7, so maybe this is unfair.  Still, I don't remember...anything.
Rufus - 9.0 - What the president should have been.  Rufus was sexy, and actually had a presence, though it could have been more consistently large.  Nonetheless, genius assholery.
Heidigger - 1.0 - Nothing.
Scarlet - 1.5 - Bitchslapping was entertaining.
Sephiroth - 7.0 - Trying to separate his CC backstory a bit.  Anyway, his backstory is neat, but...his role in the game deteriorates, I feel, while Jenova grows larger.  The end didn't feel like much.
Reno - 7.0 - Hair.  Uh...best of the Turks by far.
Rude - 2.0 - Tough guy?  At least he had a line or two.
Elena - 1.5 - Really didn't fit the Turks at all, I find.
Jenova - DNR - Seems like more of a driving force, less of a character.
Tseng - 2.0 - Barely present
Hojo - 5.5 - Eh...I like how he's the force of the entire game.  On the other hand, it's like if Michael Moore was a suicide bomber - no one would really care even if he took down something important.  He himself is...a stereotype MAD SCIENTIST!!!!!
Palmer - 5.0 - At the least is entertaining.  Still needs more.
Don Corneo - DNR - Yeah, no.  


Edea - DNR - Not a villain when she's herself.
Ultimecia - 5.0 - So little backstory, but she's present (via others) more than you'd think at first glance.  And owns Jenova.  
Seifer - 3.0 - Uh...I don't...find him to be much of an effective villain.  Antagonist, yes, but...villainy is not something he does well.  Still...enough of an asshole.
Fujin - 1.0 - What?
Raijin - 1.0 - What?
Adel - 1.0 - ...ok, she's...nothing but a roadblock >_>


Kuja - 9.0 - Stylish (the clothing accents what NEB noted), and he actually feels threatening.  Also...yeah.  The freakiness you see initially is pretty effective.  Best single-game villain in the main FF series pre-PS2.
Brahne - DNR - I don't feel comfortable ranking her as a villain.
Thorn/Zorn - DNR - ...just...honestly, remind me of Fujin/Raijin, and I'm half-tempted to DNR them.  
Necron - 9.0 - The spirit of the crystals, from what I understand and remember, so therefore he's been present in so many games.  Believing this, everything before FFX was instigated by Necron himself.  That's pretty insane - he therefore (it?) is behind everything in the series up to this point.  That's pretty crazy.  Too bad his actual presence is...fast and not well-explained here.  Horrible way to go about noting the greatest villain in the series as a whole.
Lani - DNR - Yeah...Zorn/Thorn, except with breasts.
Beatrix - DNR - Don't...see her as a villain myself.  More as a person blinded by faith - villainy...she played an antagonist, but unless I'm mis-remembering, not always a willing one.
Garland - 6.0 - Pretty crappy for the re-incarnation of the mighty Princess-Kidnapper.  Better genetic experimenter than Hojo, at least.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 06:03:22 AM by OblivionKnight »
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2009, 03:04:47 AM »
Voting on the theory that villain=antagonist, so even the ones that are reformed should basically count.

Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra - 4, he worked as an ambiant villain early on, and his one big scene was memorable.
Rufus - 8 - Overall good, stylish, competant.
Heidigger - 5. effective cliche.
Scarlet - 5.5 - effective cliche
Sephiroth - 9 - For all that I hate the hype, FF7 worked because of Sephiroth. The story does a decent job of building up to his appearance, and while you never meet the actual Sephiroth until the very end of the game, you really have a sense of who you're fighting and why. That's a good antagonist to me.
Reno - 7 - Funny, easy to relate to. Sure.
Rude - 5 - Rounds out the Turks.
Elena - 5 - Rounds out the Turks. Annoyed me somewhat, but getting tortured in Wutai made up for it.
Jenova - 6 - Ambiant villain/force. I like her backstory. Cosmic horrors are fun.
Tseng - 3 - Screentime?
Hojo - 7 - Ignoring that DoC exists, he does a good job of being the man with the plan. And I liked his plan for all that the execution was sloppy and his motivation weak.
Palmer - 1. Meh.
Don Corneo - 6 - Creepy, somewhat funny, the antagonist of one of the more entertaining sub-scenarios in the game.

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea - 6 - MystARIOUS! But also stylish.
Ultimecia - 6 - The idea of Sorceresses was kind of cool. And she was creepy. So, just above average. At least she wasn't Zeromus/Necron.
Seifer - 5 - He... worked. I suppose. Point for killing Odin.
Fujin - 7 - For all that I don't think unique speech patterns = personality, I found myself liking Fujin anyway.
Raijin - 5 - Less so, here.
Adel - 5 - Again, the Sorceresses plotline was kind of cool.

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja - 9 - Elfboy's post convinced me.
Brahne - 6 - She was unique at least. And creepy. And that final scene with Garnet was cool.
Thorn/Zorn - 7 - Jeebus Christ jesters freak me out.
Necron - 1 - Can I vote lower, please?
Lani - 1 - Completely unmemorable.
Beatrix - 7 - Worked well as a villain, and it never felt offensive when she became an ally (normally I hate this kind of redeemed villain character). So I suppose they did something right, though I can't quite explain it.
Garland - 8 - Memorable, worked well in telling Zidane and Kuja's stories. Had a decent motivation.

Bobbin Cranbud

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2009, 09:01:23 PM »
Final Fantasy 7: To me, FF7 was saved by its villain cast (Sephiroth, Rufus and the Turks specifically).  I wanted ShinRa to win because their people seemed more sensible, cooler and better equipped to save the world.  I enjoyed seeing the PCs and some of the antagonists have a seemingly legitimate ideological difference.  Sephiroth has more presence than any other villain except, perhaps, Ghaleon and Luca Blight.  If the PC cast didn't suck horribly by FF standards (the Compilation saves most of them), I'd actually like FF7 as much as the hype surrounding it.

President Shinra 3/10: Not terribly memorable, although the watching Sector 7's destruction scene earns minor style points.
Rufus 9/10: A stylish ideological antagonist.  The fact he was a lame fight for all his cool factor actually enhances him in my view; he contests the PCs on an entirely different plane than most RPG villains.  In fact, I can't think of another example quite like him.  I'm somewhat biased in that I was rooting for him to win the whole way.
Heidigger 2/10: Fail, was there.  Not a 1 because 8-bit exists.
Scarlet 2/10: Fail, was there, wasn't quite as annoying as Heidy.
Sephiroth 9/10: His story is an incoherent mess, he isn't actually present for most of the game, but holy crap did he have PRESENCE.  He's the driving force of the story in a way very few villains manage to be.  If you count his Compilation appearances he's actually an interesting character, but in FF7 itself he's more of a force of nature that happens to have a tragic (and confusing, and hinted at) backstory.
Reno 7/10: A fun jobber villain who gets points for style, humor, balls and occasional challenge.
Rude 6/10: Nicely compliments Reno but is less often challenging.
Elena 4/10: Not as much screen time as the rest of the Turks.
Jenova DNR: Not present.
Tseng 5/10: Lots of potential (as with most things in FF7, much better in CC) but doesn't show it.
Hojo 5/10: Conceptually very good, but the execution just isn't there.
Palmer 2/10: Fail.
Don Corneo 2/10: Fail.
WRITE-IN!!!  Yuffie: 4/10.  If the mark of a good villain is to make you hate her, she should be a 10.  But, you're supposed to LOVE to hate a GREAT villain.  Ironically, was actually both funny and sympathetic in the rest of the Compilation, but that's standard for FF7's fail PC cast and their cool secondary source appearances.

Final Fantasy 8: Direct contrast to FF7 - I actually like the PC cast a TON, but the villains were flat.

Edea 5/10: Style points.  Arguably those should go to Ulty since she was in control at the time, but Edea's actual presence as a villain was much higher.
Ultimecia 4/10: Random final boss, but she was actually somewhat foreshadowed and ties in to the story, and her actions did indirectly drive things.
Seifer 5/10: As a person, he's as much Fail as the ShinRa managers.  As a character, he works well for his role in the story.  Loses a point for getting to kill a powerful esper despite being otherwise presented as an also-ran.
Fujin 4/10: Cool, even somewhat poignant at times.  Also a good fight.
Raijin 4/10: A little bit poignant at times, but not cool.  Good fight, though.
Adel 3/10: I suspect she'd rate fairly highly in a Laguna-based spinoff (which would be made of win); as-is, is there.  Can't go lower because she is the center of a lot of cool scenes, can't go higher because her personality and presence are basically nil.

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja 7.5/10: The transition from arrogant manipulator to desperate freak was very, very cool.  He had style, even if half the time his style was "man, what?"  Caused major havoc.  Loses half a point because t3h pants were not part of t3h plan.
Brahne 3/10: Generically villainous, but worked as such.  Half a point for being manipulated rather than mind controlled.  Would have been much more interesting if she'd managed to have a valid point ala Rufus, but alas.
Thorn/Zorn 2/10: Fail.  Less menacing than the Black Waltzes, pale imitations of Kefka when it comes to evil jesterdom, not interesting to fight.
Necron 0, even though I know it will become a 1 in the ratings/10: Makes me think of Spacebattles.com - a ROB.  Except not omnipotent.  Also, lame way to end the game.  Also, cheap status whore whose difficulty was incredibly random.  Made both plot and gameplay retroactively worse to the point I'd probably drop the game itself a full point on a 1-10 scale due to its existence.  Possibly the greatest FAIL villain in FF history.
Lani DNR (2/10): Was there.
Beatrix 6/10: Had presence as an antagonist and I've always liked the Knight Templar type.  Arguably should be DNR, but her best scenes were before flipping sides.
Garland 4/10: Had a disposition for exposition.  Had an interesting scheme.  Gets pwnd in a good scene.  Is (was) there.
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Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2009, 04:47:15 AM »
Hey, why not?


Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra: 3/10. Did he do anything except die? I can't recollect.
Rufus: 5/10. "Controlling the world through fear" is a good political allegory. However he was doing it wrong SO I HAD TO DOWNGRADE HIM.
Heidigger: 6/10. I seem to recall him being something of a jerkass, who put the boots to people or somesuch.
Scarlet: 2/10. I remember she had an obnoxious laugh and she slapped people.
Sephiroth: 0/10. He killed Aeris for me, which in turn nixed my motivation to kill him. I wish he hadn't stopped there and carried on to many of my other party members.
Reno: 5/10. Yes, you're supposed to be cool, I get it. Your timeclock villain routine is okay.
Rude: 5/10. You are about business. I appreciate a character in a Final Fantasy game who does not talk very much.
Elena: 3/10. I remember you being mad because you wanted to get weird with Tseng. Also Don Corneo wanted to grab your tits.
Jenova: 3/10. I liked you better when you were in Psycho. You had much better writing.
Tseng: DNR. What did this guy even DO?
Hojo: 6/10. Jerkassery and then he turned in to some alien thing. After he attempted to incite bestiality at the beginning of the game, I was kind of unable to take him seriously. I expected him to ask me if I wanted to see a donkey show.
Palmer: As a villain? 2/10. He's an okay gag character.
Don Corneo: 3/10. Better gag character, actually felt menacing?

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea: 5/10. She was mysterious.
Ultimecia: 1/10. Well, we have no understandable motivation for her ("time compression?") and her development is limited to being from a time when the letter C has been lost to history.
Seifer: 8/10. I have a deep enjoyment of characters who, instead of wanting to be a megalomaniac, want to be "the bad guy." Seifer takes such glee in doing shit just to stick it to others and inevitably failing that he's almost as good in this role as Albel was.
Fujin: 3/10. Why can't you be cackling madly as you take it to the PCs? You're not FUN like Seifer.
Raijin: 3/10. See above.
Adel: 2/10. Somehow you are the most developed villain besides Seifer. I wanted to learn more about her childhood and what drove her to the decision to get that sex change operation.

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja: 9/10. Kuja is awesome.  He's like if you gave a small child absolute power and cancer.
Brahne: 5/10. I guess you did pretty well at getting played.
Thorn/Zorn: DNR. I'm pretty sure I clapped those fucks early on, didn't I? I don't remember them doing anything.
Necron: 1/10. We're talking Ultimecia fail here.
Lani: 1/10. I strained to recall anything she did.
Beatrix: 8/10. Beatrix was the reliable Royalist archetype. Those lawful neutral types make for good antagonist figures.
Garland: 6/10. Despite his low screen time, I for some reason liked the guy. Maybe it was his comprehensive assholery and his realization that cloned people are as expendable as ammunition, if he saw fit.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 04:31:25 AM by Rob the Stampede »

BaconForTheSoul

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2009, 06:22:54 AM »
Rob that is an awesome description of Kuja.

President Shinra: 2/10- Bonus point for Sector 7, but fails otherwise.
Rufus: 7/10- Pretty awesome, but manipulating the world + fighting would make him cooler.
Heidigger: 1/10- Annoying as crap
Scarlet: 2/10- Not Heidigger
Sephiroth: 8/10- Serious mommy complex and still manages to be badass?
Reno: 8.5/10- Reno is even a cooler midboss than Ultros
Rude: 4/10- Rude is boring though
Elena: 4/10- As is Elena
Jenova: 2/10- Ehh... dunno about Jenova
Tseng: 6/10- Needed more screen time, but seemed pretty badass
Hojo: 7/10- A good mad scientist
Palmer: Infinity/10- Legendary comic relief bad guy!  (4/10 for reals though)
Don Corneo: 2/10- For being a womanizer

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea: Jumping on the "Not a villain" bandwagon
Ultimecia: 7/10- Controlling people is pretty cool, and her castle owned... but she herself was eh
Seifer: 2/10- Whiny bitch
Fujin: 6/10- Sidekick who was way cooler than whiny bitch
Raijin: 4/10- Sidekick who was slightly cooler than whiny bitch
Adel: 1/10- Not memorable to me AT ALL.  (I just recall her being 2HKO bait.)

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja: 9.5/10- Seriously, Kuja works well barring the clothes issues...  He manipulates everyone to start what is effectively a world war, manages to grow more powerful than his creator and usurp him, and gains ultimate power.  The reaction when he realizes that power won't save him also works.
Brahne: 1/10- Stupid
Thorn/Zorn: 1.5/10- Stupid but slightly humerous
Necron: 1/10- Yawns
Lani: 3/10- Needed more screen time to be cool.
Beatrix: 8/10- Blind solider who actually manages to see the light.
Garland: 8/10- Had a cool shtick going until Kuja screwed it all up

Yoshiken

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2009, 04:25:39 PM »
Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra - DNR. Dies too quickly.
Rufus - 2/10. "I am cruel and horrible and hear me roar but actually achieve NOTHING OF INTEREST!" Boring villain.
Heidigger - 1/10. Has to be ranked if Scarlet is, but is utterly useless and not threatening in the slightest.
Scarlet - 2/10. Actually seems quite threatening. Sort of. I'm not too sure why, though.
Sephiroth - 4/10. Ehh. Achieves something, which is more than most of the cast can say. 2D villain with backstory, but no personality.
Reno - 8/10. Based on FFVII, Reno is awesome. A decent villain, gets in the way but is still sort of an ally. Also gets one of my favourite FFVII lines. Would be better if he had more screentime. (Note that I'm ignoring AC for these votes - he'd be lower then for the drastic personality change.)
Rude - 2/10. See the second half of Sephiroth's comments.
Elena - 1/10. Fails. Fails in-game, fails as a villain... just fail.
Jenova - DNR. Doesn't actually have a role in-game.
Tseng - 3/10. Wasn't bad early on, but gets nothing but 'death' outside of Midgar.
Hojo - 4/10. He doesn't do much, but I utterly hate him. Which means he succeeds as a villain, I guess? Eh.
Palmer - DNR. Truck.
Don Corneo - 1/10. See Elena's comments.

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea - 3/10. Achievements: 1. Holds a parade, gives fail speech. 2. Gets screwed over by the party several times before her plans can even take effect. 3. Returns to normal. Not really much of a villain, hunh?
Ultimecia - 2/10. That extra point is for Kursing.
Seifer - 2/10. 2D Generic Rival, nothing else.
Fujin - 6/10. LIKE. REASON: UNKNOWN. AWESOME.
Raijin - 5/10. Ehh, he's good for comedy value, ya know?
Adel - 1/10. Picks up Rinoa, gets killed. gj.

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja - 10/10. Okay, awesome. Saving grace for this pool, I guess. Has a reason to fight, has more motivation than "I WANT TO KILL THINGS" and actually succeeds. Somewhat Kefka Mk. II, but different enough to be awesome. (Also, funny in an entirely different way to Kefka - Kefka is loud joker, whereas Kuja is more the insulting sarcastic type.)
Brahne - 5/10. Okay. She.. kinda works as a villain, but Kuja's mostly pulling the strings, so she loses credit for that. Plus, she's ugly. -3 for that.
Thorn/Zorn - 4/10. Ehh. They suck as villains, but get points for comedy value. Extra point for personal taste because I cosplayed Zorn.
Necron - 7/10. Yes, I know, I know. But I've read into FFIX way too much and had in-depth plot discussions about it. Necron didn't show up from nowhere, Necron has a valid (although with ridiculously flawed logic) reason for destroying the world. ("Enter the zero world you desire." "No!" Sure, he desires it. >_>)  Also, bonus points for actually being a pretty tough final boss, which is damn rare in the modern FFs. (Think he's the only one from VI onwards, and I don't know about V.)
Lani - 2/10. Ehh, has a personality, which is something. Might be likable, but.. what screentime?
Beatrix - DNR. If she ends up ranked, I'll say 8/10. She's awesome, but I don't class her as a villain at all. Even when she was against you, she was clearly going to change sides eventually.
Garland - 7/10. Plot links ahoy! I'll probably make a topic about the FF timeline eventually. So yeah, actually is a threat, basically causes the destruction of both planets and is utterly evil. Would get more points if he directly achieved something, as opposed to through Kuja.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2009, 05:11:27 PM »
Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra-3/10
Rufus- 8.5/10
Heidigger- 1/10
Scarlet- 1/10
Sephiroth- 5/10
Reno- 8/10
Rude- 4/10
Elena- 4/10
Jenova- 1/10
Tseng- DNR
Hojo- 3/10
Palmer- 5/10
Don Corneo- 7/10

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea- DNR
Ultimecia- 1/10
Seifer- 2/10
Fujin- 8/10
Raijin- 7/10
Adel- DNR

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja- 9/10
Brahne- 6/10
Thorn/Zorn- 3/10
Necron- 1/10
Lani- 4/10
Beatrix- DNR
Garland- ???
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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2009, 05:36:02 PM »
It goes "work for ShinRa, get your paycheck. If terrorists attack, ShinRa's army will protect you," or something like that, right?

Actually, that's him commenting on Pres. Shinra's way of running things. "Old man tried to rule the world with money. Seems to have been working. Work for Shinra, you get paid. If terrorists attack, the Shinra will protect you. It seems perfect from the outside. But I'll do things differently from my old man. I'll control the world with fear. It takes too much to do it like my old man. A little fear will control the minds of the people."
(I'm not sure how much of that is exactly right, but that's close enough. Is it bad that I can type that out from memory? :( )

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2009, 05:44:58 PM »
Final Fantasy 8:

Edea- 6/10
Ultimecia- Blah. Pass.
Seifer- 7/10
Fujin- 7/10
Raijin- 6/10
Adel 2/10l

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja- 1/10
Brahne- 6/10
Thorn/Zorn- 1/10
Necron- 1/10
Lani- 3/10
Beatrix- 6/10
Garland- 3/10
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AndrewRogue

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2009, 07:45:09 PM »
Getting into the party a bit late, but hey.

Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra- DNR; Scenery Item
Rufus- 6
Heidigger- 4
Scarlet- 3
Sephiroth- 7
Reno- 7
Rude- 6
Elena- 6
(Turks, on the whole, got a +1 point boost for group style)
Jenova- 3
Tseng- 6
Hojo- 6
Palmer- 3
Don Corneo- 2

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2009, 11:23:49 PM »
Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra- 2/10 (5/10 if counting the compilation), at least his take on how to deal with Rufus was interesting
Rufus- 6/10 (9/10 if counting the compilation), and his inferiority complex is certainly most interesting. Hahaha "L"
Heidigger- 1/10
Scarlet- 3/10
Sephiroth- 3/10 (1/10 if counting the compilation) bad plot writing, go to hell.
Reno- 7/10 (5/10 if counting the compilation), style, where compilation killed much.
Rude- 5/10 (2/10 if counting the compilation), less amusing Reno
Elena- 3/10 (the same counting compilation), is there
Jenova- 3/10 I guess
Tseng- 3/10 (7/10 counting the compilation), functional and reasonable.
Hojo- 4/10 (same if counting compilation), gets points for being the root of all evil
Palmer- 2/10
Don Corneo- 2/10

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea- DNR, is Ulty when a villian
Ultimecia- 4/10, is there
Seifer- 6/10
Fujin- 6/10
Raijin- 4/10
Adel- 1/10

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja- 6/10
Brahne- 3/10
Thorn/Zorn- 1/10
Necron- 0/10
Lani- 1/10
Beatrix- 3/10
Garland- 5/10

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2009, 04:22:04 AM »
It goes "work for ShinRa, get your paycheck. If terrorists attack, ShinRa's army will protect you," or something like that, right?

Actually, that's him commenting on Pres. Shinra's way of running things. "Old man tried to rule the world with money. Seems to have been working. Work for Shinra, you get paid. If terrorists attack, the Shinra will protect you. It seems perfect from the outside. But I'll do things differently from my old man. I'll control the world with fear. It takes too much to do it like my old man. A little fear will control the minds of the people."
(I'm not sure how much of that is exactly right, but that's close enough. Is it bad that I can type that out from memory? :( )

Well that makes him much more shitty. Downgrade inc.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2009, 05:24:32 AM »
Failed Writeins:
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)

Note: NOT a serious write-in.

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2009, 08:24:19 AM »
It goes "work for ShinRa, get your paycheck. If terrorists attack, ShinRa's army will protect you," or something like that, right?

Actually, that's him commenting on Pres. Shinra's way of running things. "Old man tried to rule the world with money. Seems to have been working. Work for Shinra, you get paid. If terrorists attack, the Shinra will protect you. It seems perfect from the outside. But I'll do things differently from my old man. I'll control the world with fear. It takes too much to do it like my old man. A little fear will control the minds of the people."
(I'm not sure how much of that is exactly right, but that's close enough. Is it bad that I can type that out from memory? :( )

Well that makes him much more shitty. Downgrade inc.

Man, you of all people I thought would have some kind of love for Machiavelli.
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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2009, 03:46:55 PM »
I'm updating today. Get your votes in now!
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Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2009, 06:44:09 PM »
Clarifications: I took Niu's base FF7 ratings, not the compilation ones. Also, if you're going to DNR, say so in the post. Use DNR.

Results!

Final Fantasy 7:

President Shinra: 3.26, 19 rankers. (2 DNR)
Rufus: 6.97, 21 rankers.
Heidigger: 3.33, 21 rankers.
Scarlet: 2.90, 21 rankers.
Sephiroth: 6.28, 21 rankers.
Reno:  7.21, 21 rankers.
Rude: 4.78, 21 rankers.
Elena: 4.30, 21 rankers.
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Tseng: 4.58, 18 rankers. (3 DNR)
Hojo: 5.35, 21 rankers.
Palmer: 3.94, 19 rankers. (2 DNR)
Don Corneo: 3.62, 16 rankers. (4 DNR)

Final Fantasy 8:

Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Ultimecia: 4.11, 18 rankers.
Seifer: 4.89, 19 rankers.
Fujin: 5.21, 19 rankers.
Raijin: 4.26, 19 rankers.
Adel: 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)

Final Fantasy 9:

Kuja: 6.59, 22 rankers.
Brahne: 4.00, 21 rankers. (1 DNR)
Thorn/Zorn: 2.86, 19 rankers. (3 DNR)
Necron: 2.13, 22 rankers.
Lani: 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Garland: 5.47, 21 rankers.

More coming in the next post.
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Dunefar

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2009, 07:21:04 PM »
Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Reno:  7.21, 21 rankers.
2. Rufus: 6.97, 21 rankers.
3. Gilgamesh: 6.84, 13 rankers.
4. Kefka: 6.67, 17 rankers.
5. Kuja: 6.59, 22 rankers.
6. Sephiroth: 6.28, 21 rankers.
7. Ultros: 6.00, 16 rankers (1 DNR)
8. Rubicant: 5.73, 17 rankers.
9. Garland: 5.47, 21 rankers.
10. Hojo: 5.35, 21 rankers.

Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Zemus/Zeromus: 1.88, 17 rankers.
2. Necron: 2.13, 22 rankers.
3. Adel: 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
4t. Milon: 2.6, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
4t. Lani: 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
6. Hein: 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
7t. Valvalis: 2.86, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
7t. Thorn/Zorn: 2.86, 19 rankers. (3 DNR)
9t. Cloud of Darkhess: 2.90, 10 rankers.
9t: Scarlet: 2.90, 21 rankers.

Pile of -_-:

Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)


Pile of ;_;:

Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)

---

Not a bad round. There were surprises to me, as well as Necron getting a 9. 9. Ooooh my heaad. Anyway, we're moving onto the end of the numbered FF games now. Let's hit this and finish off the Squeenix behemoth!

Final Fantasy X:

Seymour Guado
Sin
Yu Yevon
Mika
Kinoc
Yunalesca
Jecht

Final Fantasy XII

Vayne Carudas Solidor
Judge Magister Gabranth
Judge Magister Ghis
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa
Vossler York Azelas
Venat

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest

The Dark King
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Random Consonant

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2009, 07:28:09 PM »
The Dark King - Gets a couple points for making up that prophecy.  Otherwise, was there.  3/10.

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2009, 07:34:30 PM »
Seymour Guado: 6/10. He is creepy and persistent. Didn't really come across as a great character, though.
Sin: 8/10. I like Sin. He has that whole force of nature thing down well.
Yu Yevon: 4/10. Kinda cool once you learn all the backstory, but you have to go fishing for that. Otherwise he is just "this random thing that summons Sin". Have to take away some points for hidden storyline.
Mika: 7.5/10. He's basically a stand-in for the corruption of Yevon. I use corruption in a somewhat non-traditional sense here, since he himself isn't doing it for personal profit... he honestly believes that his immortal guidance of the endless cycle of summoner sacrifices and Sin rebirths is the best thing that can be done for Spira. His final scene when he learns that Yunalesca is dead is pretty haunting. Doesn't really have the kind of long-term presence for a higher score, though.
Kinoc: 6/10. They do a decent job of selling you on this guy who has descended from decent to douchebaggery over the years of being jaded by his job as a Yevon maester.
Yunalesca: 7/10. I'm always a bit iffy about her, because the game never really makes it clear if she's sincere in her belief that what she's doing is for the good of Spira. According to the backstory, she is an evil psychopath who orchestrated everything as part of her grand revenge, and thus everything she tells you is her being full of crap. But why persist in it to the moment of death? Seems like they were going with an insanity angle, maybe? Really wish they were clearer on that. The backstory makes her cool, though - you just have to love a villain spiteful enough to fuck with the entire psyche of the world for a thousand years.
Jecht: I guess he's kind of a villain to Tidus, though not in the usual RPG villain way since he's a pretty decent guy who doesn't actually actively oppose the party or anything (not inclined to hold the aeon possession against him here). Still, for his role as an emotionally abusive parent in Tidus' backstory, which is certainly realistic and isn't overplayed, he gets an 8/10.

FFX writing in general is solid but it doesn't really produce any standout "holy crap this character is amazing" person on the villain side.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 07:37:22 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2009, 07:56:28 PM »
Final Fantasy X:

Seymour Guado - 7/10.  Seymour was fun.  Wish Yuna had hurried up and sent him after you killed him the first time, but eh, points for persistence.
Sin - 8/10.  Not bad for an entity villain.  I like a force of nature rampaging on technology as a change of pace from the usual reverse.
Yu Yevon - 6/10.  Not bad.  Fundamentally a pathetic guy given vast power, but the game doesn't really pretend otherwise.  Most of the church stuff doesn't seem to be his doing anyway, more Yunalesca's idea.
Mika - 7/10 Another fundamentally kind of pathetic, scared old man who merely made a good show of being a manipulator.  I'm cool with that (see high ratings for Seifer, etc.)
Kinoc - 5/10 Just kinda existed, though maybe I'm forgetting something.
Yunalesca - 7/10 .  Sure, I buy the "Well, Yu Yevon's a big problem, so we need to give people hope even if our method of defeating him is impermanent."
Jecht DNR / 8/10.  Great character, good antagonist for Tidus to play off of in flashbacks, but his villainous side I'm mostly scoring under Sin.
FFX-2 - 0/10.  Attempts to ruin excellent story that already has an ending.  Far eviller a villain than Sin, and lamer.

Final Fantasy XII

Vayne Carudas Solidor 7/10.  I liked Vayne, though he loses a point for the last part of the game.  He's very clearly a manipulator / politician villain; they didn't need to make him the last boss.  Also, while I can kinda sorta buy a Suikoden V style intentional failure in his actions toward the very end to set up Larsa as ruler....  this is complicated by the fact Larsa fights him, and it seems like there should have been a better way to go about this?  He also needs to better restrain his army (in particular: How does "recover my brother" become "burn down a holy temple?").  Anyway, what with the actions at Pharos, he seems moderately successful at putting human history back in the hands of man, and I appreciate villains who win anyway despite "losing."
Judge Magister Gabranth 5/10.  I liked all of his setup prior to Pharos; giving him the task of protecting Larsa would have given him some interestingly conflicting loyalties.  But he's just kind of unhinged in Pharos and the Bahamut.  I was hoping for an operatic villain / tragic hero / reformed murderer / something, and he ended up being more neurotic and guilt-ridden.
Judge Magister Ghis - 4/10 Idiot, but not a particularly fun one.  Yes, let's stick the super-powerful nethicite into our engine to measure it?  WTF?
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa 7/10 - See Vayne, basically, since they were both in on the same plot.  Also played off Balthier well.
Vossler York Azelas - 4/10.  Didn't buy the betrayal at all.  He's loyally served the resistance for 2 years, right?  Things are just starting to look up for them in the first third of FF12.  They've got a lead on getting some Weapons of Mass Destruction into their hands which is just what a small nation needs as blackmail to scare a large nation.  Why on earth would you pick now as the time to give up and negotiate a settlement?  He even helps the party escape in that one scene, so his decision to betray the group was made *very* late.
Venat - 6/10.  See Vayne / Dr. Cid, except subtract a point for the silly fusing with Vayne.  They all basically suceed, though, giving a nice middle finger to the other Occuria.
The Occuria - 3/10 On the bright side, the "appear to Vaan / Ashe while holding nethicite as dead friends encouraging them to do what the Occuria want" thing was cool!  Uh, FF12 gets credit for not having its final boss be a superpowerful being from nowhere that we don't find out about until 90% of the way through....  but they did INTRODUCE the superpowerful beings who were totally plotting everything all along, you just don't fight them.  And while Ashe certainly defies them at Pharos, by hunting down Venat the party still does their dirty work for them to some extent?  Kind of like how MGS2 ended with a fight against Solidus rather than the Patriots.  Bah.  I respect wanting to make the Occuria mysterious and alien, but they went too far - we know practically nothing about what the hell they're up to aside from hating Venat and signing a treaty with Ashe's ancestors.  Maybe Revenant Wings expanded on this.

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest

The Dark King - 1/10.  Doesn't exist, attempted plot twist was complete stupid.  Here's what your proper aspiring villain does: you make up a prophecy that you can only defeated by the legendary spatula in Farmer Johnson's kitchen.  Heroes come after you but their "legendary" weapon is actually random.  See, that gives you an edge.  Just making up a prophecy that someone will come kill you, and having it work, is uh hrmm.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 06:37:15 AM by SnowFire »

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2009, 10:56:39 PM »
Dark King - 3/10 -- Can I give him bonus points for the Cure weakness and the music?

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Re: Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2009, 12:45:07 AM »
Final Fantasy X: As with FF8, I felt the PC cast was much stronger than the villain cast.  I could make a blanket statement about all of these villains, frankly: if you delve deep enough into the supplementary material, they're quite interesting, but they don't DO enough on-screen.  FFX had too tight a point of view to really develop its antagonists.

Seymour Guado: 6/10.  Understandable, kind of cool, has his moments but ultimately never delivers on his promise as seemingly the main 'personal' villain.  It almost seems like an intentional subversion of Sephiroth, Kuja and Kefka?  But it's not clear enough to work for me.  Would border on outright fail, but he gets three points - half a point for a marriage plot, a full point for interesting battles, and half a point for the cool factor of his introduction - even if it's ultimately subverted.
Sin: 7/10.  Visually interesting - a whale-inspired villain?  That's very different and cool.  The revelations about its nature are also interesting and paced nicely.  Interesting battles.  Probably the best-used villain.  Loses a point for being a faceless engine of destruction.
Yu Yevon: 2.5/10.  Interesting upon deeper reflection/exploration of supplementary material, but not in the course of gameplay.  Also, a not-obvious plot fight.
Mika: 6/10.  Basically, is High Priest Funeral with a better translation/writing.
Kinoc: 5/10.  Never really rises above being a dick.
Yunalesca: 6.5/10.  Point for an interesting battle, half of one for the cool factor of the flashback scene where she pwns Auron.  But, not in the game enough to go higher.
Jecht: 8/10.  An extremely well written character with an interesting backstory.  A cool fight that's actually interesting if you're not overleveled.  All in all, top flight, although he's only barely a villain.

Final Fantasy XII: FF12 pretty much does to its whole cast what FFX does to its villains - give them too little plot screen time to shine.  The writing they do get, however, is absolutely top notch, and their roles in the story ARE spelled out in the text, albeit too briefly.  I would have loved another 10 or 20 hours of cut scenes from this game, more a PS1 FF/FFX ratio than the more Western style emphasizing dungeons and gameplay.

Vayne Carudas Solidor: 8/10.  I agree he shouldn't have been the final boss/had a plot fusion.  But he remains an interesting character, especially if you take it that he intentionally positioned Larsa to oppose him and take his place.  Depending on whether or not you see the Larsa thing as his intent (or at least as his backup plan), one of the great schemers.  I'd have liked more screen time for him.
Judge Magister Gabranth: 5.5/10.  Never an interesting fight, and he wasn't in the game enough for his story to have the impact it should have.  Point for the story there was being good.
Judge Magister Ghis: 5/10.  Epic fail in a way I personally found highly entertaining, but a great karmic death doesn't make up for little presence.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa: 7/10.  A theatrical mad scientist who was a dick, but basically right.  That's an unusual character type and he pulled it off nicely.  As with most FF12 villains, I'd have liked more of him on-screen.
Vossler York Azelas: 3/10.  Point for an interesting battle, but as mentioned above, what a dumbass. >_<
Venat: 3/10.  Interesting conceptually, but essentially no presence at all.  Additional point docked for being responsible for Vayne's plot fusion, which lessened him as a villain.
The Occuria: 6/10.  Extraordinary manipulators, at least minor cosmic beings, who are ultimately titanic dicks?  I liked the portrayal of the Occuria a lot, and didn't really mind not getting to fight them.  They weren't the sort of antagonists who needed to be fought, they were the sort who needed to be told to shove it, which Ashe did.  Props.
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