Rate the bad guys! (Spoilers, duh.)

[DjinnAndTonic]

Breath of Fire III

Balio - 7, vaguely threatening, but also entertaining.
Sunder - 6.5, the same, but an idiot.
Teepo - 6, never really got that attached to him.
Myria - 7, Tying the series together and finally getting a motivation really helps her.

Breath of Fire IV

Kahn - 7, well above average for comedy relief villains
Yohm - 9, stylish, somewhat unique archetype for an antagonist. Wish he had a battle form. Liked him.
Rasso - 4, pretty forgetable.
Yuna - 10, yay. Note that he is much cooler in the censored American version than the original Japanese. Neat.
Emperor Soniel - 5, kinda tragic, earns him average.
Won-Qu & A-Tur - 9, puppies of doom!
Fou-Lu - 10. Others have explained it better, but yeah he's essentially my favorite RPG villain.

[Yoshiken]

Yuna - 10, yay. Note that he is much cooler in the censored American version than the original Japanese. Neat.

The difference being..?

[Grefter]

He uh isn't present for the execution of the emperor?  I dunno, I wasn't aware of much difference in the translation of the script, only a couple of cut scenes in BoF IV English.

[DjinnAndTonic]

My mistake actually. I was referring to this from DragonTear:

Possibly the one thing that most disappointed and angered those who played Breath of Fire IV was Yuna. Or, more specifically, that he gets away scot free after everything he does. Some - actually, a lot - have theorized that this is part of the game's message, and Yuna is, in a sense, being given a second chance, just like all of humanity.

It's a nice thought, but the truth is, the staff just ran out of time. ^^; Originally, they had meant to include a scenario where Yuna is killed by Won-qu or strangled by Rhun, but just couldn't fit it in. Oh, well.

It was on the same page as all the cut sequences and I misremembered it as another cut scene rather than a 'left out in development' scene.

[Grefter]

Personally, I think the game is better for it.  Not that I think it means he gets a second chance or anything, just that it means that at the end of the day this game ends with two halves of a god duking it out to prove who is right and petty shit like human concerns of justice are unimportant and can wait.  Also that Yuna is a smooth pimp and you can't touch this.

[Meeplelard]

Its also a nice sense of realism since since not all EVIL DICKS get their just desserts, so its a nice change of pace when someone gets off scot free, let alone someone who can invoke as much hate as him.

(And then the real freaks go "AND ITS AWESOME SEQUEL BAIT TOO!" but that's a silly reason.)

[Grefter]

And they are of course dead wrong.  Yuna being Yuna is not good sequel bait.  Well not directly anyway.  500 years on and the aftermath of his stuff?  Yeah that might be interesting, but a direct sequel (which BoF doesn't do anyway) would be pretty meh overall anyway.

[Meeplelard]

In fairness, one of the running theories about BoF4 is that it is a Prequel, and Myria is a result of Yuna's experiments (as is the body Deis has now), which hundreds of years later led to the shit that transpires in BoF1.

That's about the most logical way to link BoF4 to series, if its linked at all (obviously, the alternative is simply "BoF4 is not related, its in its own unique setting and Deis is just there for lulz."  I know they did confirm BoF5 is NOT related, but said nothing about BoF4.)

[Grefter]

Duuuuuude.  It is me.  I know this.

But yeah Yuna surviving that has no bearing on BoF 1 at all, for Yuna living to really matter (since he has arleady created Deis and Myria are already there and already insanely powerful) then it would need to be a direct sequel, not a same universe 500 year later scenario, it would need to be like within the next 20 years or so assuming the BoF Clans live standard human lifetimes.

[Meeplelard]

Well, yes, I was mostly saying that on grounds that there was that slight chance that you forgot since its been how many years since we went over this shit at the BoF3/4 boards?

In any event, I generally agree that BoF4 doesn't make good direct sequel bait.  Then again, most RPGs don't.  There are worse ideas out there (FF6, comes to mind for a game that makes horrible (direct) sequel bait), but BoF4's really only niche is "YUNA LIVES!"  

People tend to forget that the end of BoF4 basically said "The Empire is fucked, Ursula is on good terms with your team despite this, the others all go home, the Dragons are all mortal so no divine mumbo jumbo, so all that's left is Yuna being a dick, and being the intelligent guy he is, he's probably going to do things in secrecy as to not get a whole bunch of people who want him dead on his ass."

Just so we're clear, no, there are NOT a lot of people who want Yuna dead; its quite literally just your team, primarily Cray and maybe Nina (I say Maybe cause Nina is not someone who'd go out to murder someone on anger, just bitch and moan about it.)  No one has any clue what kind of shit Yuna has pulled outside of your team, and considering the options are "Yuna, most trusted advisor of the Emperor, and currently highest standing yu left" and "Team that helped destroy the Empire", who do you think they're going to trust?

No, you didn't make this argument, nor do I think you actually follow this line of logic, mostly just slamming the argument cause someone else did, and showing how its NOT so clear cut as "PEOPLE WOULD HUNT YUNA DOWN ANYWAY!" cause really, outside of your team...no one gives a rats ass about him.  Only people who know about what he did are your team and a bunch of generic nameless subordinates who are basically Yes guys.

EDIT: Considering the way this topic is derailing a bit, maybe its best to cut off the Yuna discussion to some place else, to make Djinn counting numbers easier?  Just a thought.

[Rozalia]

Breath of Fire III

Balio & Sunder - 7/10 I know they aren't the same person and they behave differently but I can never tell them apart so I'll rate them togother. Anyway I quite liked them as they did their job in the plot well, which is being an unbeatable menace. Only beaten when Garr joins and even then only due to Garr having Plot powers of doom. They should have lived till the adult Ryu bit though.
Teepo - 8/10 Deserves lower, but my friend who played this thought he was female and there was some love nonsense going on. I laughed, but then again it might be there anyway so I shouldn't laugh, as I'm sure someone out there has drawn it all in graphic detail.
Myria - 4/10 Is a God character so rated low. If you're a member of the Divine you better be a damn good character to get more then a Five.

[DjinnAndTonic]

EDIT: Considering the way this topic is derailing a bit, maybe its best to cut off the Yuna discussion to some place else, to make Djinn counting numbers easier?  Just a thought.

Naw, this topic's made for villain discussion too. I can count them just fine.

[Grefter]

Certainly Yuna probably wasn't going to go anywhere, but he also lost almost everything he could do anything with.  The Empire is neutered, he had lost his entire support base, from memory the ending certainly does show Ursula being a key factor in the new Empire and Ursula has enough reasons to withhold support for Yuna (She was present for the awakening of Kaiser for a start... she knows there is some history surrounding Yuna and the Dragonslayer which quite clearly was wrapped up in the assassination of the Emperor, she knows what the entire deal with the Cannonade was.  There is many things there).  Ursula may not have more than her word, but she has time and proof (Cannonade still exists for a start).  He doesn't need to be dead, he just needs to be neutered and well yeah he really lost almost all his support structure there.

Again this is all part of why I really like the Yuna surviving ending, it shows that there are more ways to deal with things than just kill them and that at the end of the day when you are having gods fight there is better things to be focused on.

[DjinnAndTonic]

RESULTS!

Breath of Fire III      
      
Balio   5.45   (11 raters)
Sunder   5.23   (11 raters)
Teepo   5.5   (10 raters)
Myria   5.3   (10 raters)   
         
Breath of Fire IV         
         
Kahn   4.95   (10 raters,   2 DNR)
Yohm   7.92   (12 raters)   
Rasso   4.33   (12 raters)   
Yuna   8.54   (12 raters)   
Emperor Soniel   2.67   (12 raters)   
Won-Qu & A-Tur   4   (5 raters,   5 DNR)
Fou-Lu   8.67   (12 raters)   

[DjinnAndTonic]

Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Fou-lu(BoF4): 8.67, 12 rankers.
4. Yuna(BoF4): 8.54, 12 rankers.
5. Yohm(BoF4): 7.92, 12 rankers.
6. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
7. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers.
8. Magus(CT): 7.75, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
10. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
11. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
12. Reno(FF7):  7.21, 21 rankers.
13. Ghaleon(Lunar1): 7.11, 9 rankers.

Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik(WA4): 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung(WA5): 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Time Devourer(CC): 1.875, 8 rankers.
4. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
5. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
6. Medeus (FE11): 2.00, 3 rankers.
7. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
8. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
9. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
10. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.

Games ranked:

FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2, CT, CC, FE11, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9, FE10, BoF1, BoF2, BoF3, BoF4


Finishing off the BoF series! Only one game since there's a decently large number of (probably forgettable) villains. List is taken from wikipedia since I've not finished the game personally. Alert me to any particularly important details that this listing may cause, please.

Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter

Bosch
Violet Zeno
Mebeth
Tantra
Geegagis & Deegon
Deamoned
Cupid
Hortensia
Jezuit
Vexacion
Elyon
Chetyre
Dover

Happy voting, lasts... hoping just a week, but if voting and discussion are still going on, I'm not gonna just close it suddenly.

[Yoshiken]

Only listing the ones I know.

* Yoshiken makes note to actually finish BoFV sometime...

Bosch - Uhh. 6/10, I guess. Dull character, but good at what he does. Actually seems slightly insane, which is always a fun trait for villains to have.
Violet Zeno - 7/10. A villain in the sense of "Disagrees with what you try to do" but nothing else. Has a modicum of sense and fear of Ryu, comes across as a competent warrior. Always good to see.
Mebeth - 2/10 - rar we will fight you o wait no we won't o well. 1 point for being an arrogant prick.
Deamoned - 5/10. Better than the others below him, because he actually thinks for himself. Deamoned = Nappa from DBZ, yup. Comes down to: "Why are you fighting?" "Why not?" "..."
Cupid - 1/10. I don't want to fight! 2D character, dull as hell, is a Pokemon Trainer. Go, Golem!
Hortensia - 1/10. Psychic lady who does sweet fuck-all. yay.
Jezuit - 1/10. rar evil council. I wish I remembered which one this was, but it's not like it changes things.
Vexacion - 1/10. Die. Worse because he completely killed me, but that's not relevant here. >.>

[Dark Holy Elf]

Late to the party for FE11, let's do this.

Minerva: DNR, all her development is as a PC pretty much. Granted she is one of the only PCs with development!
Camus: 3/10. Generic noble enemy general who pushes no boundaries, but he didn't actively bother me and had some in-game presence, unlike...
Michalis: 1/10. Had no plot at all until the chapter you fight him and then the game expects me to care. Hahaha. Came off as a colossal tool in that one scene, too.
Gharnef: 4/10. Only villain who actually did things and Chapter 16 ensured he was at least somewhat intimidating. About as good as FE1 gets which says nothing.
Medeus: 2/10. Does he even appear before the final battle? Kinda like Michalis but less botched, still bad.

Would also have rated Morzas, for a one-scene wonder, "I killed your mother" makes him have more emotional impact than the rest. Is probably also a 4!

Now onto another shining star:

Bosch: 6/10. Pretty good. His personality made some sense and if he and Ryu had had more scenes together to act as foils instead of rar WE ARE ENEMIES the game might have had a plot.
Violet Zeno: 5/10. Portrayed well enough for what she is. I dunno if it's a good thing that I was totally cheering for her when she fought the party. Probably not.
Mebeth: 2/10. Hi I betray you for stupid underexplained reasons.
Tantra: 1/10. lol
Geegagis & Deegon: DNR
Deamoned: 3/10. Balgaine without the cool design. Still the best of the regent monkeys.
Cupid: 1/10. Whatever.
Hortensia: 1/10.
Jezuit: 2/10.
Vexacion: 2/10. 1 from what I saw but I am giving him credit for that scene with Bosch that is only on NG+. Only 1 because NG+ plot is idiotic.
Elyon: 2/10. HUMANITY IS NOT WORTHY TO OPEN UP THE SKY.
Chetyre: 1/10. Necron.
Dover: DNR.


Oh wow that ranking session gave me new appreciation for RPG writing.

[Crystalgate]

Bosch: 4/10. He didn't work so well for me. Maybe it's because of the narrative describing the plot as a battle between friends which gave me unfulfilled expectations. Whatever's the case, the only purpose he seemed to serve was to make Ruy look awesome in comparison, which I suppose is something even though I think Ruy would have been awesome anyway.
Violet Zeno: 7/10. She manages to be a non-asshole who still ends up fighting you without resorting to a nonsensical motivation. Ruy pretty much piled up a lot of reasons for her to come after him and she acted out of what to her looked like regretful necessity.
Mebeth: 3/10. Why try dirty tricks, which can backfire something horrible, to goad Ruy into fighting an enemy he's already bound to fight? He isn't cool or serves to move the plot into a new direction or anything like that either.
Tantra: 2/10. Makes annoying noises. Tried to be scary, but killing a lot of rangers which Ruy has already proven perfectly capable of beating doesn't set him up as an intimidating enemy.
Geegagis & Deegon: DNR. I consider them being characters no more than I consider the cage plant which kidnaps Garnet in the beginning of Final Fantasy IX to be a character.
Deamoned: 3/10. Well, he does serve his purpose as something to fight.
Cupid: 3/10. Make sense, dammit! His inane ramblings aren't offensive though, just defeats any point he may have had.
Hortensia: 2/10. Thank you Lin for cutting her rambling short!
Jezuit: 3/10. Could have been cool. His attitude is quite different from the rest of the regents particular in that he doesn't think highly of the D-ratio system. Unfortunately, this trait isn't very meaningful when half of the regents seem fond of inane ramblings. It's like thinking different than crack addicts.
Vexacion: 4/10. I must give him a point of handling the matter gracefully. "We are enemies, so we fight" also makes far more sense than "we fight because of something about harmony or sin or whatever that's supposed to mean anything."
Elyon: 3/10. I get that he was unsure if opening the path to the sky was a good idea, but why is "can Ruy beat the crap out of the regents?" a good criteria? It doesn't help that he is just as inane as Hortensia and Cupid if not even more so.
Chetyre: 3/10. What does he need the sky for and why would letting mankind get some fresh air be incomparable with his goals?
Dover: DNR. Plotless after-game boss.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Bosch: 4/10. Is fine for what he is.
Violet Zeno: 5/10
Mebeth: who?
Tantra: 2/10
Geegagis & Deegon: Who?
Deamoned: 7/10. NED!!
Cupid: 3/10
Hortensia: 3/10
Jezuit: 3/10
Vexacion: 4/10
Elyon: 6/10
Chetyre: 2/10?
Dover DNR

[Cmdr_King]

Bosch- 5/10.
Violet Zeno- 4/10.
Mebeth- 3/10.
Tantra- 2/10.
Geegagis & Deegon- DNR. (They basically are Tantra's remote bodies from what I can tell)
Deamoned- 3/10.
Cupid- 3/10
Hortensia- 2/10.
Jezuit- 3/10.
Vexacion- 4/10.
Elyon- 3/10.
Chetyre- 2/10.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Right... any last minute voters? I'm gonna do SMRPG next.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Okay! RESULTS and stuff!

Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter      
      
Bosch   5   (5 raters)
Violet Zeno   5.6   (5 raters)
Mebeth   2.5   (4 raters)
Tantra   1.75   (4 raters)
Geegagis & Deegon      DNR
Deamoned   4.2   (5 raters)
Cupid   2.2   (5 raters)
Hortensia   1.8   (5 raters)
Jezuit   2.4   (5 raters)
Vexacion   3   (5 raters)
Elyon   3.5   (4 raters)
Chetyre   2   (4 raters)
Dover      DNR

[DjinnAndTonic]

Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Fou-lu(BoF4): 8.67, 12 rankers.
4. Yuna(BoF4): 8.54, 12 rankers.
5. Yohm(BoF4): 7.92, 12 rankers.
6. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
7. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers.
8. Magus(CT): 7.75, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
10. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)

Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik(WA4): 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung(WA5): 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Hortensia(BoF5): 1.80, 5 rankers.
4. Time Devourer(CC): 1.875, 8 rankers.
5. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
6. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
7. Medeus (FE11): 2.00, 3 rankers.
8. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
9. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
10. Cupid(BoF5): 2.20, 5 rankers.
11. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
12. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.

Games ranked:

FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2, CT, CC, FE11, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9, FE10, BoF1, BoF2, BoF3, BoF4, BoF5

Well, that was the least exciting round we've had so far... and we've already ranked the Sinistrals... Way to fail, BoF5. >.>;;

On to something with a different kind of evil: Super Mario RPG! Less tragic or serious, and just a series of increasingly-quirky bosses. Which says a lot when the game's first boss is Bowser~
Descriptions this time because I'm bored!

Bowser: If you don't remember who he is, you fail at gaming forever.
Croco: Dude stole your coinz. Also, bitchin' hat for a dinosaur.
Mack: Pogo-sword dude who uses Shysters to hold some poor Mushroom people hostage. Also has the first Star.
Belome: Doggie gonna eat you. Fight him like 400 times. "His charm point is his adorable tongue"
Bowyer: The first in a long series of anthromorphic Weaponry. As his name implies, he's a Bow. He likes shooting off and raining arrows on your team's head throughout the dungeon.
Punchinello: This one is an anthromorphic Bomb, despite the name.
Booster: Manliest guy in the mushroom kingdom? He ascribes to the Bowser school of matrimonial bliss.
Bundt: The cake is a lie.
Johnny: Pirate Shark!
Yaridovitch: 'Yari' is Japanese for spear, as in 'this guy is anthromorphic Spear'. The more you know~
Birdo: Pink, transvestite dinosaur who lays eyes from her -mouth-. :horrified: Debuted in Mario Bros 2.
Valentina: Known for ruining Mallow's family, taking over the Nimbus kingdom, and her enchanting jiggling.
Dodo: Valentina's right-hand Bird.
Axem Rangers: Red, Black, Pink, Green, and Yellow. Unsurprisingly, they all wield axes~
Boomer: He has a katana, that makes him pretty cool.
Exor: GIANT SWORD THAT CLEAVES THE HEAVENS Bowser's Keep!
Smithy: The 'mastermind' behind it all. He is a blacksmith who wants to fill the world with weapons~
Culex: Eww, you got Final Fantasy in my Mario game~

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars

Bowser Koopa
Croco
Mack
Belome
Bowyer
Punchinello
Booster
Bundt
Johnny
Yaridovitch
Birdo
Valentina
Dodo
Axem Rangers
Boomer
Exor
Smithy
Culex

Happy voting.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Belome: Doggie gonna eat you. Fight him like 400 times. "His charm point is his adorable tongue"
Bowyer: The first in a long series of anthromorphic Weaponry. As his name implies, he's a Bow. He likes shooting off and raining arrows on your team's head throughout the dungeon.

a) You only fight Belome twice.
b) Bowyer isn't the first anthropomorphic weapon, that's Mack the knife!
c) Second Booster should be Boomer.

Bowser Koopa: DNR
Croco: 5/10. Amusing enough.
Mack: 3/10. I don't remember him doing much of anything.
Belome: 4/10. Eh.
Bowyer: 5/10. He made life unpleasant for some town and was insane. It's something.
Punchinello: 6/10. Bomb. James Bomb. Curse you, censors. He'd totally be a 7/10 with his real name!
Booster: 7/10. Mildly hilarious.
Bundt: 7/10. THE CAKE IS ALIVE.
Johnny: 6/10. Shark pirate is pretty amusing.
Yaridovitch: 6/10. HIS SPECIAL POWER IS TICKLING.
Birdo: DNR
Valentina: 3/10. Don't try to be serious, SMRPG.
Dodo: 3/10. He did anything?
Axem Rangers: 6/10. Pretty good, but not Prism Ranger level.
Boomer: 2/10. Even in parody, overly serious samurais are lame.
Exor: 4/10. Awesome design, but I don't think he actually does much besides be the guy I thought was the final boss.
Smithy: 3/10. Don't try to be serious, SMRPG.
Culex: DNR

[VySaika]

Bowser Koopa: DNR
Croco: 5/10. Amusing enough.
Mack: 3/10. I don't remember him doing much of anything.
Belome: 4/10. Eh.
Bowyer: 5/10. He made life unpleasant for some town and was insane. It's something.
Punchinello: 6/10. Bomb. James Bomb. Curse you, censors. He'd totally be a 7/10 with his real name!
Booster: 7/10. Mildly hilarious.
Bundt: 7/10. THE CAKE IS ALIVE.
Johnny: 6/10. Shark pirate is pretty amusing.
Yaridovitch: 6/10. HIS SPECIAL POWER IS TICKLING.
Birdo: DNR
Valentina: 3/10. Don't try to be serious, SMRPG.
Dodo: 3/10. He did anything?
Axem Rangers: 6/10. Pretty good, but not Prism Ranger level.
Boomer: 2/10. Even in parody, overly serious samurais are lame. (GATE EDIT: Also, who? Only char on the list I didn't remember immediately.)
Exor: 4/10. Awesome design, but I don't think he actually does much besides be the guy I thought was the final boss.
Smithy: 3/10. Don't try to be serious, SMRPG.
Culex: DNR

Somehow, the Elf mirrors my opinions on SMRPG villians near perfectly. Up to and including thinking Exor was the final the first time I played. Freaky.