Proving Grounds round 2-1 M/H- Thunder weakness time!

[superaielman]

In:

Kanji: 55-52 51.4%
Meru: 49-47 51.04%

Out:

Golem: 56-57 49%


For this round I used champions and runners up only (Exception: I used the person the champ/runner up beat in the previous round if they were already in or just used, like Dekar for Lenus). Changes things up a bit.


Rauny Vinzalf (OB) vs Juan (S3)
Rauny vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Rauny vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)
Rauny Vs Gale (DDS)
Rauny vs Dekar (Lufia 2)
Rauny vs Ursula (BoF4)
Rauny vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)
Rauny vs Marivel (WA2)
Rauny vs Selan (Lufia 2)
Rauny vs Tengaar (Suikos)
Rauny vs Jibril (SO2)
Rauny vs Demi (PS4)

Meru (LoD) vs Juan (S3)
Meru vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Meru vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)
Meru Vs Gale (DDS)
Meru vs Dekar (Lufia 2)
Meru vs Ursula (BoF4)
Meru vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)
Meru vs Marivel (WA2)
Meru vs Selan (Lufia 2)
Meru vs Tengaar (Suikos)
Meru vs Jibril (SO2)
Meru vs Demi (PS4)

Yosuke Hanamura (P4) vs Juan (S3)
Yosuke vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Yosuke vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)
Yosuke Vs Gale (DDS)
Yosuke vs Dekar (Lufia 2)
Yosuke vs Ursula (BoF4)
Yosuke vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)
Yosuke vs Marivel (WA2)
Yosuke vs Selan (Lufia 2)
Yosuke vs Tengaar (Suikos)
Yosuke vs Jibril (SO2)
Yosuke vs Demi (PS4)

[Dark Holy Elf]

Meru (LoD) vs Juan (S3): Meru wants initial SP here. Or even a simple Spirit Ring.
Meru vs Cait Sith (FF7): Wards off one turn of status, then smites past any limit.
Meru Vs Gale (DDS): See above, except Gale's status is way worse anyway.
Meru vs Dekar (Lufia 2): Instantly doubles, so should overwhelm. Should avoid limit healing easily enough.
Meru vs Ursula (BoF4): Ursula lacks any ice resistance, so see Gale.
Meru vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG): Ice resistance. Lacking any possibility of being 2HKOed, Toadstool can wait out anything Meru does with her own healing and force her back with her respectable physicals.
Meru vs Marivel (WA2): Yup.
Meru vs Selan (Lufia 2): Selan's MDef wasn't as good as we thought, right?
Meru vs Tengaar (Suikos): Getting that first turn in is too important.
Meru vs Jibril (SO2): Jibril.
Meru vs Demi (PS4): Ice resistance, Barrier, see Toadstool.

Meru 8-3

[superaielman]

Rauny Vinzalf (OB) vs Juan (S3)- Edit: Undersold Juan's offense.
Rauny vs Cait Sith (FF7)- Limits. Status is useless here, but Rauny can't really chip unless you let her adjust rows in battle.
Rauny vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Heal lock. Just barely, but it's a heal lock.
Rauny Vs Gale (DDS)- THUNDER WEAKNESS
Rauny vs Dekar (Lufia 2)- Outtanks.
Rauny vs Ursula (BoF4)- Don't think Ursula's status or durablity was that uber.
Rauny vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)- B tub ring saves the day.
Rauny vs Marivel (WA2)- Marivel relies on shaky status to get the job done. Not enough here.
Rauny vs Selan (Lufia 2)- Outlasts.
Rauny vs Tengaar (Suikos)- Too much pressure. Goes first and puts a hurting on Tengaar and very likely evades an Earthquake.
Rauny vs Jibril (SO2)- Unless he resisted thunder.
Rauny[ vs Demi (PS4)- THUNDER WEAKNESS

Meru (LoD) vs Juan (S3)- Double overkill or so.
Meru vs Cait Sith (FF7)- Think he runs Meru out of resources. Healing limit means massive trouble for her.
Meru vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Water weapon! Denied.
Meru Vs Gale (DDS)- Doubt Gale has a prayer without status.
Meru vsDekar (Lufia 2)- OHKO. Even if Meru doubles instantly, I don't think she can put enough pressure on thanks to his HP.
Meru vs Ursula (BoF4)
Meru vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)- Elemental halving.
Meru vs Marivel (WA2)- Abstain for now.
Meru vs Selan (Lufia 2)- Runs Meru out of MP. She also can dig up a fire weapon somewhere if need be for a 2HKO, but doubt that's required.
Meru vs Tengaar (Suikos)- Magic blitz.
Meru vs Jibril (SO2)- Jibril.
Meru vs Demi (PS4)- Ice resist.


Yosuke Hanamura (P4) vs Juan (S3)- Buff/smite.
Yosuke vs Cait Sith (FF7)- Think his evasion spell gives him enough time here.
Yosuke vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Confuse tips a close fight.
Yosuke Vs Gale (DDS)- Don't see his evade working here.
Yosuke vs Dekar (Lufia 2)- Status doesn't hit MDef in either game. Yosuke can't really 2HKO either.
Yosuke vs Ursula (BoF4)- ITE status.
Yosuke vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)- Her status is too good and she halves wind.
Yosuke vs Marivel (WA2)- Blitz.
Yosuke vs Selan (Lufia 2)- I.. don't think Yosuke can OHKO, and he needs it.
Yosuke vs Tengaar (Suikos)- Evasion/status.
Yosuke vs Jibril (SO2)
Yosuke vs Demi (PS4)- ITE/full healing/tankiness/Barrier. She has too many ways to shut him down.

Rauny: 7-5
Yosuke: 6-6
Meru: 5-7

[Dark Holy Elf]

Double overkill or so.

Actually, it's closer to triple!

[superaielman]

Meru vs Dekar (Lufia 2): Instantly doubles, so should overwhelm. Should avoid limit healing easily enough.
Meru vs Selan (Lufia 2): Selan's MDef wasn't as good as we thought, right?

I'm not sure how Meru overwhelms Dekar without a triple. She can't ever be caught outside of her Dragoon form or she's getting splattered. Far superior resources means he can outlast her MP; he has no reason to do anything but buff or heal when faced with her Dragoon form. Selan has to be overwhelmed pretty fast.  Meru may be able to do it, but she has to avoid running out of MP for BSD and get a double at just the right time. Weapon IP puts some pressure on her as well.

[Dark Holy Elf]

The buffs and healing require IP, which Dekar has trouble using effectively because he's slow. He may well die to BSD + Freezing Ring x2 to me, which there's absolutely nothing he can do about if so. If not, it's a more interesting fight, and depends exactly how much damage Meru can do with her first attack and not give Dekar enough IP to heal. Stat topic suggests he needs to take less than 25%, so it's a decently sized window seeing as she then gets 3 turns to kill with.

And yeah, I'm assuming Selan dies to the first double she faces. If I've underrated her durability, she may not, granted.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Meru (LoD) vs Juan (S3): Even if I give her enough SP to go Dragoon from the beginning, I'm not sure she wins this.
Meru vs Cait Sith (FF7): Shouldn't have too much trouble getting around its limit, and Dragoon form immunes status.
Meru vs. Rutee Katrea (ToD): Haha, water-reliant Tales healer vs. Water Dragoon.
Meru Vs Gale (DDS): Dragoon status-immuning again.
Meru vs Dekar (Lufia 2): Speed difference tips things in Meru's favor, but it's close. Could be argued.
Meru vs Ursula (BoF4): At least she's not getting doubled! ...wait? Did Ursula have any status weapons?
Meru vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG): Princess is crazy durable for a Middle.
Meru vs Marivel (WA2): Kneejerk.
Meru vs Selan (Lufia 2): Hmm.. close. Going with the Elf on this one.
Meru vs Tengaar (Suikos): Iffy here, can't Tengaar buff herself beyond Meru's ability to damage?
Meru vs Jibril (SO2): Jibril.
Meru vs Demi (PS4): Pretty sure that Demi can buff herself beyond Meru range, though.

Meru: 9-3

[Ultradude]

Yosuke Hanamura (P4) vs Juan (S3)
Yosuke vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Yosuke vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)
Yosuke vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)

Yosuke: 3-1

[Dhyerwolf]

Rauny Vinzalf (OB) vs Juan (S3)- Juan. Accuracy is taking too much out of her evade to prevent the OHKO.
Rauny vs Cait Sith (FF7)- Cait
Rauny vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Rauny
Rauny Vs Gale (DDS)- Rauny
Rauny vs Dekar (Lufia 2)- Dekar
Rauny vs Ursula (BoF4)- Rauny
Rauny vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)- Toadstool
Rauny vs Marivel (WA2)- Marivel. Power Seal works here.
Rauny vs Selan (Lufia 2)- Selan
Rauny vs Tengaar (Suikos)- Rauny
Rauny vs Jibril (SO2)- Rauny. Evasion to avoid getting eaten turn 1
Rauny vs Demi (PS4)- Rauny

Meru (LoD) vs Juan (S3)- Juan
Meru vs Cait Sith (FF7)- Cait Sith. Meru wishes LoD MDef got status.
Meru vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Uh…really depends on how Rutee’s non Ice damage is. If it’s about equal to her other damage, she may just go and OHKO.
Meru Vs Gale (DDS)- Gale. See Cait Sith.
Meru vs Dekar (Lufia 2)- Dekar
Meru vs Ursula (BoF4)- Abstaining here.
Meru vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)- Toadstool
Meru vs Marivel (WA2)- Marivel. See Gale, Cait Sith and Ursula.
Meru vs Selan (Lufia 2)- Selan
Meru vs Tengaar (Suikos)- Meru.
Meru vs Jibril (SO2)- Jibril. Eats her.
Meru vs Demi (PS4)- Demi.

Yosuke Hanamura (P4) vs Juan (S3)- Yosuke
Yosuke vs Cait Sith (FF7)- Cait Sith
Yosuke vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Yosuke. Confusion simplifies this.
Yosuke Vs Gale (DDS)- Yosuke. Gutting Gale’s ID as turn 2, so Yosuke’s Confusion hits first.
Yosuke vs Dekar (Lufia 2)- Yosuke
Yosuke vs Ursula (BoF4)- Ursula
Yosuke vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)- Toadstool
Yosuke vs Marivel (WA2)- Marivel
Yosuke vs Selan (Lufia 2)- Are Bunny Ears storebought, or another Bunny Ring type item?
Yosuke vs Tengaar (Suikos)- Yosuke
Yosuke vs Jibril (SO2)- Yosuke
Yosuke vs Demi (PS4)- Demi

Yosuke 6-5
Rauny 6-6
Meru 1-8

[superaielman]

Meru vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Uh…really depends on how Rutee’s non Ice damage is. If it’s about equal to her other damage, she may just go and OHKO.

Massive dropoff. There are next to no storebought weapons in ToD, and Rutee's selection of them is terrible to boot. I think she's more or less using a a Knight's Saber (35 attack) if she is walled by ice magic. Yeaaaaaaaaah.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Meru vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Uh…really depends on how Rutee’s non Ice damage is. If it’s about equal to her other damage, she may just go and OHKO.

Massive dropoff. There are next to no storebought weapons in ToD, and Rutee's selection of them is terrible to boot. I think she's more or less using a a Knight's Saber (35 attack) if she is walled by ice magic. Yeaaaaaaaaah.

Nevermind that, Rutee loses her whole skillset if she switches her weaponry. She generally just -can't- win if she gets walled.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Gale's and Ursula's status isn't turn 1 and both have unimpressive durability so Meru should at the very least beat both of them.

Canopy Earth only blocks one spell. So the battle goes Meru attack -> Canopy Earth -> Meru attack (400 SP) -> Revenge Earth -> Meru Dragoon and Freezing Ring -> Canopy Earth -> Freezing Ring until double in which case BSD. Tengaar is not durable, two physicals and BSD and she's very dead.

[superaielman]

Meru vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Uh…really depends on how Rutee’s non Ice damage is. If it’s about equal to her other damage, she may just go and OHKO.

Massive dropoff. There are next to no storebought weapons in ToD, and Rutee's selection of them is terrible to boot. I think she's more or less using a a Knight's Saber (35 attack) if she is walled by ice magic. Yeaaaaaaaaah.

Nevermind that, Rutee loses her whole skillset if she switches her weaponry. She generally just -can't- win if she gets walled.

She keeps the damage. If in theory she had DL access to the flare sword, she may well scrape up a OHKO. (She doesn't, it's one of a kind)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Rauny Vinzalf (OB) vs Juan (S3) - Juan deals like 1.5x PC HP in damage with his full chain and his accuracy is solid. This is close, but Juan damage is just O_o if someone lets him get that turn.
Rauny vs Cait Sith (FF7) - Rauny doesn't quite heal-lock here! This just gives Cait too much leeway.
Rauny vs Rutee Katrea (ToD) - Perfect silence staves off the heal-lock, since Rauny needs the magic to do it. Past that, I'd agree with super.
Rauny vs Gale (DDS) - lol weakness.
Rauny vs Dekar (Lufia 2) - Kills Dekar dead on a triple that's coming sooner than later and I don't think she gives him enough IP to OHKO before that.
Rauny vs Ursula (BoF4) - I think so.
Rauny vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG) - Walls elements! Yeah.
Rauny vs Marivel (WA2) - Think evade+status resists are enough for her to avoid turn one statusin'. Then, it's 2HKO time.
Rauny vs Selan (Lufia 2) - Kills on a double, I think? Evade and status resists makes Selan dealing with the offense rather problematic.
Rauny vs Tengaar (Suikos) - EDIT: Rauny just misses the 2HKO. That gives Tengaar enough time.
Rauny vs Jibril (SO2) - Jibril.
Rauny vs Demi (PS4) - Mad spoilage. I think Rauny is faster, and the lightning weakness means Demi gets nearly OHKOed - and definitely 2HKOed through Barrier.

Meru (LoD) vs Juan (S3) - Gets a turn, commits Winglycide.
Meru vs Cait Sith (FF7) - Yeah, wards a turn then smites through limit.
Meru vs Rutee Katrea (ToD) - Spoils.
Meru vs Gale (DDS) - 2HKOs. Gale's ID sucks.
Meru vs Dekar (Lufia 2) - Honestly not sure here. I tend to scale temps to endgame performance (giving them endgame levels and equips), so this makes Dekar miss the OHKO without limits, but...
Meru vs Ursula (BoF4) - See Gale.
Meru vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG) - B'tub Ring.
Meru vs Marivel (WA2) - See Ursula.
Meru vs Selan (Lufia 2) - I'm more certain here, assuming Meru kills on her first double.
Meru vs Tengaar (Suikos) - Hmmmmhm.
Meru vs Jibril (SO2) - Jibril.
Meru vs Demi (PS4) - Outlasts.

Yosuke Hanamura (P4) vs Juan (S3) - Spams Tentarafoo until it hits, then booms.
Yosuke vs Cait Sith (FF7) - Yosuke misses the 2HKO for me, I think (taking damage averages with Souji). So, this just gives Cait the time.
Yosuke vs Rutee Katrea (ToD) - Silence busts Yosuke's nuts open.
Yosuke vs Gale (DDS) - 2HKOs.
Yosuke vs Dekar (Lufia 2) - Attritions it out. Tentarafoo on the speed split does wonders, and Endure lets him take a limit.
Yosuke vs Ursula (BoF4) - Ursula status is turn one against average IIRC. This means she gets some time, and Confuse into Death = toodles.
Yosuke vs Princess Toadstool (SMRPG) - Silence+healing work here, and waiting out on Yosuke's HP-eating damage also helps.
Yosuke vs Marivel (WA2) - More turn one status.
Yosuke vs Selan (Lufia 2) - Right, Confusion immunity.
Yosuke vs Tengaar (Suikos) - More weird attrition. He needs Suku+Diarama, but Tengaar's limited resources are a huge boon here, and Endure tips things decisively.
Yosuke vs Jibril (SO2) - Jibril.
Yosuke vs Demi (PS4) - Yeah, that's a bit much for the wingman. Demi has too much in the way of resources, and Barrier guarantees she won't get 2HKOed.

Meru: 9-3
Rauny: 7-5
Yosuke: 5-7

[Dhyerwolf]

Meru vs Rutee Katrea (ToD)- Uh…really depends on how Rutee’s non Ice damage is. If it’s about equal to her other damage, she may just go and OHKO.

Massive dropoff. There are next to no storebought weapons in ToD, and Rutee's selection of them is terrible to boot. I think she's more or less using a a Knight's Saber (35 attack) if she is walled by ice magic. Yeaaaaaaaaah.

Nevermind that, Rutee loses her whole skillset if she switches her weaponry. She generally just -can't- win if she gets walled.

She keeps the damage. If in theory she had DL access to the flare sword, she may well scrape up a OHKO. (She doesn't, it's one of a kind)

Rpgclassics says two of a kind, making it effectively a 2 of 3 weapon (Stahn won't ever want it).

On Tengaar, her goal is to get past Meru's Dragoon transformation and get RE up. If Meru opts for the 400 SP, don't think she 2HKOs with anything, which is problematic. Meru 5-4s (Meru is 128%, and 114% on turn 1 to me. Tengaar is average). Meru attacks, Tengaar canopies, Meru magics, Tengaar canopies, Meru magics, Tengaar canopies, Meru magics x2, ends Dragoon form, and Tengaar REs, and Meru can no longer do any damage. A match where those 3 shots of Canopy Defense actually matter to me!

Meru might well beat Ursula and Gale if I was overrating their durability though (Well, Ursula might be able to Sleep->Death x2).

[superaielman]

Garr/Mary/Rutee can all use it (Ignoring Leon) and definitely have uses for it, so no.

[Dhyerwolf]

Yes, I already noted it was 2 weapons for 3 of them (Which certainly isn't unheard of, given that I believe most people allow that for VP).

[superaielman]

That is really reaching. It's also less than half the attack power of Rutee's swordian, so she's not even going to OHKO with that regardless.

[Dhyerwolf]

Rutee's attack power with that is about 520 (As opposed to her normal 780ish). Don't know how ToD defense factors in, but given how it's mocked, could be that she could pull that out (Again, I don't know the damage, so I'm completely unsure there).

However, 2 of 4 where 1 person has something completely better and never, ever wants it and 2 of 3 really are basically the same thing to me. Certainly not so out there as to be called reaching unless you find Bahamut Tear extremely borderline in the first place (Unless you have some reason to discount one of them. Is the Colosseum at the time nearly impossible? I dont' really remember, so I can't say).

[Dark Holy Elf]

On Tengaar, her goal is to get past Meru's Dragoon transformation and get RE up. If Meru opts for the 400 SP, don't think she 2HKOs with anything, which is problematic. Meru 5-4s (Meru is 128%, and 114% on turn 1 to me. Tengaar is average). Meru attacks, Tengaar canopies, Meru magics, Tengaar canopies, Meru magics, Tengaar canopies, Meru magics x2, ends Dragoon form, and Tengaar REs, and Meru can no longer do any damage. A match where those 3 shots of Canopy Defense actually matter to me!

As I outlined, she attacks in response to the Canopy. 400 SP per attack is a major damage loss as you note, but 200 SP per attack, not so much. (Admittedly when I made that post I had assumed that Meru did 200 SP with her best damage, but still.)

[Dhyerwolf]

If Meru goes for the 200 SP, then it's Meru attacking, Tengaar canopying, Meru dragoon attacking, Tengaar REing, and then Meru dragoon attacking and falling back into normal form. That nets Meru about 1900 damage (Which shouldn't even be enough to take out Tengaar using the lower damage average), and then she's eating a lot of whiffs.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Why would Meru go dragoon until she plans to use magic? She attacks twice as a human (Wingly, whatever), gets 400 SP, and the time to play around for BSD.

[ThePiggyman]

Couldn't Meru just attack in her Dragoon form everytime Tengaar uses Canopy? It wouldn't cost her MP, and she could still actually hurt her. Dragoon attacks might not compare, but they're still a lot stronger than her additions.

[Cmdr_King]

Actually, Meru's Dragoon Addition should be weaker than Perky Step.  500% vs 600% attack modifier, if I'm not mistaken?

Votes later, too sleepy now.

[Clear Tranquil]

Perky Step is definitely better than her D Addition yeah. Her dragoon physical is probably worth using over Double Smack/Hammer Spin though - and yeah if she's using Cool Boogie as her addition in non dragoon form for the 400 SPs then using her dragoon physical for non magical damage is probably her best bet. Nice one Piggyman =-)

Meru vs Cait Sith (FF7)-No turn one dragoon Meru =-(
Meru vs Ursula (BoF4)
Meru vs Jibril (SO2)

Meru: 2-1