DL Tweak League - Pool 2

[Taishyr]

3) Tengaar (S2)
DL legal equip options
Mother Earth+Darkness runes
Sponsor: Snow

8) Luneth (FF3DS)
DL legal equip options
Can choose any job except Onion Knight, depending on the battle.
Sponsor: SnowFire

10) Serge (CC)
DL legal equip options
White elements (no offensive ones aside from Saints) + Dreamer's Sarong (7 elemental levels at start of battle. Reminder: Serge's slots are 8 8 8 7 5 4 4 4. See this post for elemental info
Sponsor: DjinnAndTonic

14) Sasarai
Full S3 equip choice, Yellow Scarf full blocker equipped.
Flowing Rune slot unlocked, full non-True Wind/Lightning/Fire/Water rune choice.
Sponsor: Neph/self, kinda


16) Garet
See this post for complete details.
Sponsor: Ultradude

18) DL DEFENDER Marcello

Tengaar vs. Luneth
Tengaar vs. Serge
Tengaar vs. Sasarai
Tengaar vs. Garet
Tengaar vs. Marcello

Luneth vs. Serge
Luneth vs. Sasarai
Luneth vs. Garet
Luneth vs. Marcello

Serge vs. Sasarai
Serge vs. Garet
Serge vs. Marcello

Sasarai vs. Garet
Sasarai vs. Marcello

Garet vs. Marcello

Pool 1 closes Wednesday. This pool will close on the weekend, precise time determined when I post Pool 1 results and pool 3.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Quick kneejerk impressions, will come back to this later.

Tengaar vs. Luneth - Even if he blocks ID, she gets him with some other status, apparently.
Tengaar vs. Serge - Serge's speed sinks him against status whores.
Tengaar vs. Sasarai - Yellow Scarf stops Tengaar's status, but I don't think she can block all of Sasarai's status options. Kind of an unfair matchup.
Tengaar vs. Garet - Tengaar doesn't block the status and Garet is actually fast in this setup.
Tengaar vs. Marcello - Still dunno, but following Dhyer's lead on this. I'm guess she's doing horrible things to his damage with her buffs.

Luneth vs. Serge - Luneth's mage forms are too slow so they lose to MagNegate. His physical classes are handled by Serge's healing/eventually building up to Saints.
Luneth vs. Sasarai - Sasarai the status whore strikes again!
Luneth vs. Garet - Garet the status whore strikes again!
Luneth vs. Marcello - Not sure.

Serge vs. Sasarai - Sasarai's fast status is pretty ridiculous.
Serge vs. Garet -  Garet's fast status isn't quite as ridiculous, but it's still faster than Serge!
Serge vs. Marcello - Kneejerk.

Sasarai vs. Garet - Leaning Sasarai, who blocks status, and gets Garet with one of his many rune options that have status.
Sasarai vs. Marcello - Sasarai sweeps. Wow.

Garet vs. Marcello - Sure.

Sasarai 5-0
Garet 4-1
Tengaar 3-2
Serge 2-3
Luneth 0-4
Marcello 0-4

[Dhyerwolf]

Tengaar vs. Luneth- He needs a select few classes to avoid the ID, and those classes are all evadable physical generally.
Tengaar vs. Serge- Gut reaction of Tengaar being marginally faster turn 1.
Tengaar vs. Sasarai- 50% Flat chances work turn 1 to me, so even if she's faster, her first spell is irrelevant.
Tengaar vs. Garet- Speed+Status
Tengaar vs. Marcello

Luneth vs. Serge
Luneth vs. Sasarai- Luneth is again locked in a few select classes, and they don't like Dream Robe (unless that works some way differently than what I know).
Luneth vs. Garet
Luneth vs. Marcello- Gut

Serge vs. Sasarai- WoS->ID
Serge vs. Garet
Serge vs. Marcello

Sasarai vs. Garet- 50% Evasion Robe+Status Immune
Sasarai vs. Marcello- 50% Evasion Robe+Magic Evasion

Garet vs. Marcello- Gut

Sasarai 5-0
Garet 4-1
Tengaar 3-2
Serge 2-3
Marcello 1-4
Luneth 0-5

[Ultradude]

Sasarai vs. Garet - Only vote I have is Garet vs. status immune. Phooey.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Tengaar vs. Serge - See Dhyer, don't think Serge was even average speed (which Tengaar is -at worst-, Dhyer mentioned her sorta getting RNG-smacked in his stat topic). Magnegate spoils nothing if Serge doesn't get a turn to boot, and Tengaar can just slap Revenge Earth to wait Serge's Magnegate out if he -somehow gets a turn- (which would involve Tengaar just letting him do it out of pity). She has the charges for it running off a L1 and he has no offensive magic outside the L5 and L7, which get Canopy'd. 
Tengaar vs. Sasarai - Sasarai can get an A+ with Wind. This means slap a nice WoS on Tengaar then Funeral at ridiculous accuracy. That can't bide well for her.
Tengaar vs. Marcello - Marcello's incapable of OHKOing Tengaar and his magical damage gets resisted (lol silver hat). She just drains him to oblivion and closes with a nice Earthquake to the face.

Serge vs. Sasarai - WoS, the end. Alternatively, Open Gate is a mite above average speed off an A. Sasarai gets that turn and wins.
Serge vs. Marcello - Kneejerk is Marcello gets two turns in a row if Serge tries to heal and attack. This means Serge has to OHKO, since he goes last. No.

Sasarai vs. Marcello - No, don't think he one-turns even with physicals. This sorta means Sas 2HKOs, and he could slap in a Cyclone for horrendously fast and cheap healing here.

Quite an impressive show Sasarai pulled here.

[superaielman]

Tengaar vs. Serge- ID.
Tengaar vs. Sasarai- Want ot say the magic charge war favors Tengaar.
Tengaar vs. Marcello- Want to say that Tengaar can drain her way out of trouble here. Drain/drain/EQ... yeah I'll bite.

Serge vs. Sasarai- Twinks wind magic, sends Serge to dreamland.
Serge vs. Marcello- Above average speed. Serge can't really OHKO here so yeah.

Sasarai vs. Marcello- Non typed dispel prevents walling, and Sas defense means he can't fuck around for too long.

[SnowFire]

Luneth vs. Serge - Kneejerking that Serge can't deal with a physical blitz?  Jump, attack again round 3 to finish the job.  Serge only has Round 2 to play with here, and I don't think he has full healing or OHKO damage?  (If Saints is a OHKO, then Serge likely wins.)
Luneth vs. Sasarai - EDIT: Status was faster than I thought.  (Old post: Tentatively I think that Dragoon Luneth has a weird as hell heal-lock here?  Luneth opens with jump, evading Pale Gate ID.  S3 doesn't really have any killer buffs a la FFT Golem IIRC, so Sasarai does whatever (Earth Rune +20% Defense?!).  Round 2, Sasarai defends, avoids the OHKO.  Note that if the Earth Rune's wussy buff is good enough to allow Sasarai to survive, he probably just wins here, but I think Sas's HP is too bad for that to work.  Round 3, Sasarai can heal really fast with Water Rune, so I don't think a Dragoon attack can finish the job, but apparently the closest thing to draining is the max spell on a Cyclone Rune?  That's too slow.  So Luneth avoids the issue and jumps again.  Round 3 Sas heals, Round 4 Sas defends and Jump impacts...  repeat until Sas has no healing left.  Basically, jump is pretty badass when you're fast.)
Luneth vs. Marcello - Jump Marcello out.  Marcello does his worst round 2, but on turn 4 he's eaten two jumps, and he doesn't have 2x PCHP durability.

Serge vs. Sasarai - Sas statuses Serge out somehow.
Serge vs. Marcello - Not huge Marcello respect?

Sasarai vs. Marcello - Probably 2HKOs first.

[Yoshiken]

Luneth vs. Garet - Okay. Luneth has to hit with status first turn (and actually get first turn) or else he's either facing a Garet OHKO or Stun/Vine/Impair -> Kill. Pretty much any magic class is ruled out unless it aims for first turn status or instant death, because otherwise they're going down from one physical, and all of those are below average agility, let alone Garet's 1.5x (both turn-based systems so can actually directly compare these!). Ninja's Muramasa has a 48.8% chance of inflicting any status, and seeing as one of those is Poison, this isn't gonna save Luneth. Gradual Petrify won't help... Ranger weapons are only a 20% chance... Yeah, Luneth's done for. Ouch.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Luneth vs. Sasarai - Analysis

You know, Sasarai has access to Wind of Sleep, and that's absurdly fast and very accurate even with a B+. With an A+ (which Sas explicitly can get here), I have problems seeing him not get a turn and just shut down Luneth if he goes that route unless he immunes Sleep. If he does, that strategy probably applies (tangentially, Clay Guardian is +15%, it's a horrible boost in the DL), but otherwise, I think you may want to revisit your breakdown.

[SnowFire]

Suppose it's worth mathing out.  Luneth as a Dragoon is 71 Agility to a 44 Average, so 161% speed.  The stat topic lists 45 as the average charge time.  At a 161% speed, that means Luneth's turn goes off at 28 Charge Time.  The stat topic lists Hugo's Wind of Sleep as going off at 26 Charge Time.  Sure, vote changed.

Fair enough, didn't think Sasarai had a chance of beating Dragoon's excellent speed.  Now, the next question is, how fast do Tengaar's spells go off?  Similar fight, pretty much, either Jump saves the day or Luneth gets IDed.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

For Tengaar, she's just slightly above average speed (so, Luneth's faster). Problem is that Jump is an evadable physical that only will resolve on the next turn. Revenge Earth means that evadable physicals = nono due to perfect evade for three turns, and she has nine charges of that.

EDIT: Which is to say that, if Luneth's handling Tengaar, he needs to have a class that can both outspeed her and shut her down in a single turn. That may be possible, haven't played FF3DS extensively yet.

[Yoshiken]

Luneth vs. Sasarai - Sasarai the status whore strikes again!
Luneth vs. Garet - Garet the status whore strikes again!

Worth noting that Luneth has quite a bit of choice in the way of equipment, with a good deal of it blocking some status. Not sure about Sasarai, but it blocks Garet's statusing at least. (Probably doesn't change the outcome, but worth noting. Honest.)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

* Jo'ou Ranbu checks equipment options.

Hm, true, there are a bunch of equip options that let him block both Sleep and ID at the same time! On the other hand, they seem to be all shields. That's going to utterly crap out on his offense, and not to mention many of those classes are magically frail, looking at stat topic numbers. Dragoon in particular is looking at rather easy Land of Eternity OHKOs, and he possibly can't 2HKO even Sasarai if he's dropping a weapon to not get killed by Sleep and ID (and Sasarai is horrendously fast when he heals, both Healing Wind and Kindness Drop are godly at it).

[Dark Holy Elf]

Tengaar vs. Luneth: Warrior is above average speed with OHKO damage. Works here.
Tengaar vs. Serge: Slightly faster.
Tengaar vs. Sasarai: Magic Reflection (FULL equips? He gets an S then) combined with Wind of Sleep.
Tengaar vs. Marcello: Mm, forget how good the draining is on Tengaar's affinities. Gutting that it's good enough, Marcello damage isn't too impressive particularly since she's guarding Wind.

Luneth vs. Serge: More Warrior OHKO hype.
Luneth vs. Sasarai: If Luneth needs shields to block status here, he's screwed, since Sas will handle his offence and kill him with EQ or whatever.
Luneth vs. Marcello: Marcello can't handle Jump's parasitic healing at all.

Serge vs. Sasarai: Zzz.
Serge vs. Marcello: Heal-locks. What does Serge do that's special? Vigora I guess... wait, White elements only? Okay, hmm. Serge gets one shot of Saints and one attack chain. I dunno if that's enough, no clue on what kind of damage he can muster! When in doubt, vote against the nebulous setup...

Sasarai vs. Marcello: Yeah, the extra equip options probably ward off a OHKO.

Sasarai 4-0
Luneth 3-1
Tengaar 2-2
Marcello 1-3
Serge 0-4

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Tengaar vs. Marcello: Mm, forget how good the draining is on Tengaar's affinities. Gutting that it's good enough, Marcello damage isn't too impressive particularly since she's guarding Wind.

B affinity on Darkness, which is good enough for the draining to be around 70%-80% of her health. I'd kneejerk she'd deal around 400 damage with that, which is sorta sub-optimal for damage, but serviceable.

EDIT: *Pointless numbercrunching.* Taking the base damage, seems like the base damage Tengaar'd deal (not accounting enemy defense) assuming she had 0 magic would be 360 with Stealer of Souls. If S2 adds the Magic stat straight to the stat and the affinity mults are added after defense (let's say enemies have 110 MDef average, assuming S2 is straight subtraction. This may not be accurate, but not much evidence that says it isn't, seems fairly accurate to in-game. Granted, we could try cracking mechanics now that we have a bestiary!)...

300 base + 153 magic = 453 - 110 MDef = 343 * 1.2 = 411.

Okay, that was a vaguely pointless exercise, but that probably gives a decent range of where her damage falls, and seems to fit closely enough with a numerical comparison with Dhyer's numbers.

EDIT: OF COURSE, I could be hilariously and completely off with the mechanics, so don't mind this, I'm just bored.

[Dhyerwolf]

Tengaar vs. Luneth: Warrior is above average speed with OHKO damage. Works here.

This is w/o the L99 equips?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yes. Warrior is on the 3rd out of 7 tiers for speed, IIRC, losing only to Thief/Ninja/Ranger. Although Gungnir's speed boost propels Dragoon out of a tie with Warrior and into their ballpark, IIRC. Stupid Gungnir.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Serge vs. Marcello: Heal-locks. What does Serge do that's special? Vigora I guess... wait, White elements only? Okay, hmm. Serge gets one shot of Saints and one attack chain. I dunno if that's enough, no clue on what kind of damage he can muster! When in doubt, vote against the nebulous setup...

More rereading and stuff pointing while I'm bored! I have to note that Serge can't use Saints if the field isn't all White (unless it's clearly stated he always gets the White field from the get-go, which... doesn't sound like he does <_<). With Marcy casting Wind spells like a good spammer, I can't see that happening ever, not that this is even relevant for the vote. >_>

[Dark Holy Elf]

Oh right, forgot that restriction. Not sure what the point of giving him Saints was then, unless he fights TWINKED LUCIUS or something similar.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Well, the idea was that he would be spamming MagNegates against mages, I suppose. MagNegate being white would mean that after three of them, he could use Saints.

Honestly, though, he doesn't need Saints for damage when he still has his Techs (that don't require a white field). Saints was just kind of an option that I thought fit in well with the 'white elements' thing. But being average speed and not having status immunity just sinks him too badly in this field. Still think he'll have no trouble with Marcello, though.

-Djinn

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

LONG STALLING MATCHES or something, assuming the enemy is either Holy or non-elemental, I guess? A Serge chain+Saints should be pretty nasty overkill damage (I remember Saints doing upwards of 600 damage by itself). But it's highly niche anyway.

[Dark Holy Elf]

He has plenty of trouble with Marcello. Marcello has 2HKO damage and is faster. In order to combat that Serge needs to either OHKO (not happening) or do something to escape a heal-lock such as haste (which he doesn't have) or draining (which he has... but requires a white field).

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Wonder how useful Haste would even be given loldispel. It does halve Marcy's offense, but that wouldn't help a whole lot unless the Haste was crazy badass, and Serge obviously would lack the resources to keep that up anyway, and Marcy -still is dealing damage-.

[DjinnAndTonic]

He has plenty of trouble with Marcello. Marcello has 2HKO damage and is faster. In order to combat that Serge needs to either OHKO (not happening) or do something to escape a heal-lock such as haste (which he doesn't have) or draining (which he has... but requires a white field).

Ah, I see. I forgot that Marcello 2HKO'd.

[Clear Tranquil]

Serge vs. Marcello- Is that dude from DQVIII right? >_>

Edit: Is it ok to vote on one match anyway?