imageRegister

Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3  (Read 6376 times)

Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« on: July 14, 2009, 06:09:31 PM »



"Hoh... you've all passed again. Clearly I should not give you a choice next time..."


Team Dude, Snowfire and Glen vs. Floor 2

-------------------------------------------------------------

Team Dude, Snowfire and Glen's Matches

Floor 3a: Singles Matchup

"So, I see you keep managing somehow... Well, let's try something a bit more interesting. You can only focus on one enemy at a time!"

*All MT attacks have become ST and can be targetted on both enemy and ally at will.

Battle #11: Eiko, Garnet and Rydia

Eiko: I'll show you my powers to summon!
Rydia: You will not get past us!

Battle #12: Geddoe and Hugo

Geddoe: ...This should be easy.
Hugo: Fubar's not here, but... I'll beat you anyway!!

Battle #13: Lulu and Nina1

Lulu: Hmph. This will be where you stop.
Nina: For Wyndia!!

Battle #14: Demi and Wren

Demi: I apologize, but I cannot allow you to pass.
Wren: We shall fight you until the bitter end. Do not resist.

Boss Battle #3: Boss Magus and PC Magus

Magus: Interesting what a time loop can do...
Magus: Indeed...


-----------------------------

Team Dude: Blue, Relm, Zozma (Firefly), FFT Monk, Rena
[Blue: Realm (All), Light (All), Guns (Starting techs)]
[Relm: Ramuh and Stray Espers, no magic to start the floor]
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Dude vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia
Team Dude vs. Geddoe and Hugo
Team Dude vs. Lulu and Nina1
Team Dude vs. Demi and Wren
Team Dude vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus

Team Snowfire | Purim, Jessica (Firefly), Garnet, Lyn, Rena
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Snowfire vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia
Team Snowfire vs. Geddoe and Hugo
Team Snowfire vs. Lulu and Nina1
Team Snowfire vs. Demi and Wren
Team Snowfire vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus

Team Glen | Cecilia, Raquel, Lilka, Jane (Firefly)
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Glen vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia
Team Glen vs. Geddoe and Hugo
Team Glen vs. Lulu and Nina1
Team Glen vs. Demi and Wren
Team Glen vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 10:33:12 PM »
Team Dude vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia: Zozma's set up for speed here and the first thing he does is ID Eiko. Garnet can't really do anything here. If she casts life on Eiko, then Monk kills her again and Blue physic prisons Rydia. Protecting Rydia has a similar result. If she casts reflect on Rydia, then Rydia is killed by physical beatdowns. Blue's experience with guns should be able to push him ahead of Rydia speed wise. Next turn Zozma SPs  Garnet and the team heals up any damage they took.  
Team Dude vs. Geddoe and Hugo:  The biggest problem these two have is that it takes both of them to kill Zozma. Zozma SPs one of them or casts glass shield on himself if you allow yellow scarves. Blue then IDs Geddoe and the Monk revives Zozma. Zozma Glass Shields or SPs again and the team finishes off Hugo.  
Team Dude vs. Lulu and Nina1: Relm should have some magic now, the most important spell being imp. Zozma actually counters Nina 1 very well. If she tries Wall he uses Phantasm Shot to break it. If she tries to buff Lulu's speed, he uses Sharp Pain on Lulu. If she tries to status, he Sharp Pains her first. Relm Imps Lulu and Blue IDs nina. Lulu may be able to try some things with status weapons, but Rena can heal statuses now and the team has two revivers.
Team Dude vs. Demi and Wren: Zozmas starts the fight with Glass Shield. Demi has to put up barrier or Relm OHKOs her with Bolt 2. Even with it up a Bolt 2 and a monk physical should be enough to take her out. If she breaks the glass shield then Relm OHKOS her and Wren kills Zozma. Blue revives him. The result is the same either way with Wren up against the whole team. If Demi barried last turn I think my team might not be able to kill him in one turn, but Wren's heal locked because a round of physicals followed by a full force round will kill him. To speed things up, Relm sketches him until she gets an anti-mech ability which finishes him off.
Team Dude vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus: Glass Shield prevents PC Magus from doing anything threatening before he gets beat with a physical beatdown. Boss Magus is touger, but Relm has Lightning and Blue has Fire damage. Additionally with the exception of Zozma, my team hasn't used much of their resources. Relm probably has over half and Rena and Blue probably have at least 2/3 left. This is more than enough to get past the first part especially with Relm and Blue's excellent damage. The second part gets owned by physic prison.

I think snowfire should be able to make it without too much trouble, but a couple of matches are close.

I have no idea on team Glen.

Edit: Glen also passes. I completely forgot about What can You Do. In fact, I would have used a similar strategy if Blue started with reaction shot learned, but Glass Shield is almost as good.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 11:32:18 PM by dude789 »

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009, 11:04:01 PM »
The Firefly rune is practically designed for the MT->ST floor, as it removes the major weakness Firefly teams have.  Also note that Jess has the Firefly Rune this floor, not Lyn (fights 2, 3, and 5 are why).

Team SnowFire vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia
Hey, Twin Dragon Lash can easily be directed on this floor!  Jess TDLs Eiko for massive damage (reminder: Dragon Soul doesn't exist 'till Floor 10, so TDL breaks the curve horribly).  Lyn doubles Rydia and kills her.  It's now a speed-off between Good Garnet and Evil Garnet to kill/heal Eiko.  If Good Garnet wins, it's all over (Ramuh, if Eiko blocks Thunder she reduced her defense and died from TDL).  If Evil Garnet wins and heals first, it doesn't actually matter...  the summoners are constantly on their backfoot, healing and reviving.  Eiko revives Rydia, Purim Ice Sabers Rena, Rena snowmans Rydia, Jess TDLs Eiko again, and Lyn finishes Eiko off.  Evil Garnet is now alone.  Garnet's revival is merely Life, not Full-Life, and she doesn't have Esuna for saving Rydia either.  So I guess she lifes Eiko, Purim & Rena kill Eiko dead again, Jess TDLs Garnet, Lyn finishes Garnet.

All the summoners have Reflect: Null, hence the aggro plan here.  Best fight on the floor.

Team SnowFire vs. Geddoe and Hugo(S3)
Bounce -> AHAHAHAHAHA.  Jess resists physicals, but even if you see the combined beatdown as able to kill her... Garnet revives, Rena heals, Jess re-bounces, Lyn & Purim do evil things.

Team SnowFire vs. Lulu and Nina1
Bounce -> AHAHAHAHAHA.  (Okay, some people let Lulu have the Fatal Cait Sith? It's still Lulu accuracy, and Garnet still has revival, and Purim Balloons her before she goes anyway.)

Team SnowFire vs. Demi and Wren
Jessica goes first and defends (note that the defend nerf on Firefly is grandfathered, so this works).  Garnet casts Protect, Purim casts Defender, Rena keeps Jessica healed.  The team joins Lyn in the smashing round 2.  (Demi/ Wren's stuff sounds physical flavored?  If it's Magic, then Shell.)

Team SnowFire vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus
Bounce -> AHAHAHAHAHA.

Bounce is self-only, hence the move of the Firefly from Lyn to Jessica.  Garnet's Reflect is learned off the Stardust Rod, which is the middle of Disc 2, so Garnet would have Reflect anyway, but Jess can throw up reflection much faster.

The combo of Firefly, an ST floor, and revival is pretty brutal.  Bring on Kefka & Fou-Lu at the same time on the MT->ST floor, basically.  Xorn could probably be tossed in as well depending on Kefka HP respect.

For reference, I have a post with Garnet's rough abilities by floor here, and one of DQ8 / Jessica here.  Purim & Lyn work pretty much as their stat topic indicates.

Edit: Re Team Glen...   Yeah, when Cecilia gets a turn to cast Reflect, the fight's basically over.  Note that Lilka theoretically can cast Reflect too, but looking it up, it costs 65 FP to cast.  Problem is, that even in the equipmentless averages (assuming Rudy & Jack aren't spiking the curve with equipment) Cecilia is still a bit below average speed.  Could open up some mild opportunities for the dungeon if they can kill Jane fast.  Relevant to that...

How good is Alter Code F defend?  Just a normal half damage?  It work on everything, physical / magic damage alike?  Assuming it halves everything...

Team Glen | Cecilia, Raquel, Lilka, Jane (Firefly)
[Floor 3a]
Team Glen vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia -
Well, Eiko / Garnet/ Rydia all ignore Reflect except for Rydia's black magic, so this fight isn't quite lol reflect.  Jane defends.  Garnet...  can berserk Jane to get rid of the defend next turn, or unreliably Mini Jane, or or go for 51% ID now.  Let's say she goes for the ID.  If the ID succeeds, Lilka revives, Eiko kills again with a summon, Cecilia is forced to revive, Rydia nukes with Bahamut.  Raquel splatters someone, but no Jane next round.  Hmm...  Garnet getting another turn can be bad, so let's say Raquel killed Garnet.  Lilka revives Jane.  Eiko...  can Full-Life Garnet or kill Jane again.  And Raquel is so slow she's not going again until turn 3.  So Eiko Kills Jane, Cecilia revives Jane,  Rydia kills her again, Lilka revives, Eiko kills, Cecilia revives...  and around here Raquel finally goes again to stop the ping-pong.  If Eiko had Full-Lifed Garnet before...  huh, comes down to what kind of evil status Cecilia can lay down in her free turn in which she doesn't have to revive now.  But she'll have her shot, and this is all assuming Garnet's ID hit in the first place.  Even if her ID misses, Raquel's upcoming turn might save the day anyway.  So yeah, looks like Glen pulls through even given a bad initial break (as I suspect the Berserk Jane strategy isn't very good).

Other fights later.  (Also after we find out the details in AF defend.)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 05:30:31 AM by SnowFire »

Magic Fanatic

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1352
  • As if it wasn't already.
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 02:06:55 AM »
Team Dude: Blue, Relm, Zozma (Firefly), FFT Monk, Rena
[Blue: Realm (All), Light (All), Guns (Starting techs)]
[Relm: Ramuh and Stray Espers, no magic to start the floor]
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Dude vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia
Team Dude vs. Geddoe and Hugo
Team Dude vs. Lulu and Nina1
Team Dude vs. Demi and Wren - Hmm...
Team Dude vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus - Ice/Shadow Shields, PC Magus is above-average speed, and might immune ID/status things depending on interpretations of the helmet/accessory.  That's...  Kind of hard for this team to work around, since it's mostly magic-reliant and I don't know what floor Blood Chalices are bought on.  However, that's still a lot of healing...  Allow DS upgrades?  Judgement Scythe/Gloom Helm/ShadowPlume Robe/Hadean Mirror (all Magus-unique).  This fight is REALLY interp heavy.



Team Snowfire | Purim, Jessica (Firefly), Garnet, Lyn, Rena
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Snowfire vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia
Team Snowfire vs. Geddoe and Hugo
Team Snowfire vs. Lulu and Nina1
Team Snowfire vs. Demi and Wren
Team Snowfire vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus - I like Snow's explanations here.  DS Upgrades might throw a kink in these, but...  Rena has good healing, and Garnet can reapply Reflect if Jessica isn't able to.



Team Glen | Cecilia, Raquel, Lilka, Jane (Firefly)
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Glen vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia - Lilka's fast and has free healing/revival.  Cecilia casts Reflect/Suction, and Rydia's way too frail.
Team Glen vs. Geddoe and Hugo - Lilka's fast and has free healing/revival.  Cecilia casts Reflect/Suction.
Team Glen vs. Lulu and Nina1 - Lilka's fast and has free healing/revival.  Cecilia casts Reflect/Suction.
Team Glen vs. Demi and Wren - Jane evade, and Lilka's fast and has free healing/revival.  Cecilia boosts Jane evade to "Makes enemies cry" levels.
Team Glen vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus - Lilka's fast and has free healing/revival.  Cecilia casts Reflect/Suction.  Even the DS Upgrades don't matter.

Heck, this floor cries more depending on when you see the Holy Parasol available and the Firefly Rune being on Cecilia.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 07:43:40 AM by Magic Fanatic »

Glen Veil

  • Just call me...
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 297
  • HO-UOU-IN K-YO-U-MA~
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 10:25:31 PM »
Edit on my comment about ACF defend. I did a bit of research and found this FAQ: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/918799/39374, turns out ACF is kinda hard to calculate since it factors FP in, but one interesting thing it does do is lower the chances of being hit by status's.  What it basically means is Jane has ~ her normal durability at 0 FP and gains up to 50% reduction at max FP while defending with the firefly stone.  It does seem to put a large dent in Snowfire's worst case argument by making Garnets ID not turn one though.

I've kind of put off commenting on my team because I'm not sure if people allow Jane *What Can You Do?* yet.  If people see her as getting it then the floor becomes a complete joke as Jane does her best impression of WA4's Trump Card.  She gets that when she joins for the Volcanon Trap, and she doesn't have Follow Me yet, which since people say that is floor 4 makes me want to pin What Can You Do at floor 3.

I'll probably give a rundown for both an interp of her having access to what can you do and not having access to it.

In the meantime if you allow her WCYD, iirc, when she joins with this move she has enough Mp to use the ability a total of 9 times, or 2 times for 4 floors and then 1 time for some less threatening floor.

Quick summary if you allow What Can You Do?: Jane goes first off ridiculous speed and uses *What Can You Do?* -> Floor Makes everything Single target -> Firefly forces all the single target attacks at Jane -> *What can you do cancels the attack -> Cecilia/Raquel/Lilka wreck the other team since Jane is Invulnerable until she runs out of MP.

I'll have a better breakdown for both interps later.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 12:01:06 AM by Glen Veil »

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 04:23:35 PM »
I thought Firefly nulled invincibility... Although... the strategy might still fail against Demi and Wren constantly self-healing themselves. I think they have more healing than Jane has charges of What Can You Do?... Though I suppose if Raquel/Cece/Lilka have that much time, they can buff to OHKO levels.

Other votes:

I think dude's team is finally stopped by the Maguses (Magi?). The Demi and Wren fight really drains their resources. If this was a normal floor, Relm might have a shot of zapping both of them with Ramuh, but the ST effect allows them to cover each other. They can stall a REALLY long time with their healing... and that's draining important resources from Blue. Alternately, if team dude opts to use less resource-heavy damage (like... Rena physicals?), then Demi and Wren get plenty of time to damage dude's team and now Blue's resources are spent on healing (and probably Rena's too). This just doesn't leave him in good shape against the Magus team and I think he's out of resources.

As for SnowFire... jeez... it sounds like you designed this team with the ST floor in mind... Jessica/Bounce/Firefly is pretty awesome. I'll give it a Pass for this floor.

Glen... uh... tentative pass. Just once I'd like to see a Jane team get to floor 4.


Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5583
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 04:39:21 PM »
The biggest issue with What Can You Do? in the dungeon setting is that the move doesn't work if she runs out of bullets, so she has to stop and defend/reload more frequently.  You could also take issue with precisely how many upgrades she's allowed to have by this point, but as I recall her default bullet count is... 5?  So a mere two turns despite having the MP for quite a few more.
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 05:04:04 PM »
Djinn, Demi is not living past the first turn. Her magic durability is hideous before barrier and even with Barrier up, Bolt 2 is hitting her weakness off of Relm's magic stat and the rest of the team can help. Even though Wren does have great durability of both types with barrier up, he's heal locked. He may be durable, but he's not surviving ten actions from my team. The only person who really gets drained from this fight is Relm who has to use Bolt 2 twice.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 12:10:46 AM by dude789 »

ThePiggyman

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1119
  • The Lonely People (Are Getting Lonelier)
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 05:42:40 PM »
Team Snowfire passes.
Team Dude fails.
Glen's matches are a headache that I'll pass on thinking about. ;p
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 10:41:33 PM by ThePiggyman »
Quote from: DjinnAndTonic
Quote from: OblivionKnight
if you believe in being a GOOD PERSON

If we believed in that, we wouldn't be forcing world-saving hero to fight eachother to the death for our amusement.

Talaysen

  • Ara ara~
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2595
  • Ufufu~
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 06:56:43 PM »
I thought Firefly nulled invincibility...

What Can You Do? is NOT invincibility.  It just cancel's the opponent's attack.  Completely different.

Glen Veil

  • Just call me...
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 297
  • HO-UOU-IN K-YO-U-MA~
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 12:27:28 AM »
Finally got around to commenting on my team.

Team Glen vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia)
Without What Can You Do: Jane defends to stop Garnet’s turn 1 ID, so Garnet probably opts to hit Jane with Ark since trying to berserk Jane just won’t pressure my team enough.  Lilka then heals Jane, Eiko hits Jane with Madeen or something, Cecilia statuses out Eiko since Eiko is the only one that can cure statuses and Cecilia can’t really ohko anyone.  Rydia finishes off Jane, Raquel kills Garnet, Lilka revives Jane, and then Cecilia heals Jane to full.  This leaves the dungeon team with an Eiko who is either asleep/prisoned/confused/silenced and Rydia to break through a full HP Jane.  If you see suction not being bypassed by Eiko's and Garnet's null reflect ability Cecilia can also cast that to make the fight much less dangerous.

With What Can You Do: Jane uses What can you do, this forces the other team to try a stall tactic since attacking Jane just makes them take damage instead. Garnet uses protect on herself.  Lilka cast quick on Raquel, Eiko cast protect on Rydia since casting protect on herself won’t stop getting statused out and to stop a Raquel ohko.  Since Eiko was forced to use protect to prevent Garnet from getting stuck in a revive lock, Cecilia statuses out Eiko, Rydia attacks Jane to use up a bullet, Raquel smacks Garnet. Round 2, Jane uses WCYD, Garnet heals, Lilka cast Mageweapon on Raquel, Cecilia dispels Garnets protect then Raquel OHKO’s.  At this point the summoner team basically loses.

The first fight definitely seems to be the hardest for my team,
Team Glen vs. Geddoe and Hugo- Jane defends, Hugo can’t quite ohko her, and can’t get off his ID before Cecilia casts reflect on Jane, Lilka heals Jane, Cecilia cast reflect, and from there the two suikoden characters struggle to KO Jane with their physicals through her insane evasion, which can quickly be raised to max by Cecilia while Lilka heals.  After Jane is essentially immune it’s just a matter of time before Geddoe and Hugo lose.

Team Glen vs. Lulu and Nina1 – this fight is a joke compared to the last two, Lulu is slow and Nina doesn’t have damage, Cecilia cast reflect on Jane even if she’s hit by Hold and my team just kinda smites them from there.  Lulu is not hitting Jane evasion with a ID weapon with her accuracy.

Team Glen vs. Demi and Wren – Jane doesn’t need WCYD for this, Jane defends and Lilka just heals her, Demi gets splattered by Cecilia hitting her with Spark with a Raquel Physical follow up.  They just don’t put a lot of pressure on my team, Cecilia can also Shield Jane if Demi and Wren have some sort of cover ability instead of blitzing with Raquel, it’s hard to out stall Lilka’s infinite healing resources.

Since Jane actually hasn’t needed to use WCYD that often yet if one does allow it, she can opt to use it once here to let Lilka and Cecilia get Jane’s defenses built up quicker, though it isn’t really needed.

Team Glen vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus – worst case is PC magus ID’s Jane, Lilka Revives, then Cecilia casts reflect on Jane, fight after that is easy.

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 12:47:01 AM »
Djinn, Demi is not living past the first turn. Her magic durability is hideous before barrier and even with Barrier up, Bolt 2 is hitting her weakness off of Relm's magic stat and the rest of the team can help. Even though Wren does have great durability of both types with barrier up, he's heal locked. He may be durable, but he's not surviving ten actions from my team. The only person who really gets drained from this fight is Relm who has to use Bolt 2 twice.

Relm having Bolt2 at this point seems iffy to me... it only has a 2x learning rate... and factoring in that she has to alternate to learn Stray's spells before the end of this floor, too... I don't think she gets the last spell until the boss fight. And Demi... I'd kneejerk that she's faster than Relm (only slightly though). Might be a decent argument for Blue to get some good magical smash in before Barrier though, since he has the speed boosts from using Guns... hmm...

I still think the bigger problem is the Magus fight and your team being ID-vulnerable at the moment.

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2009, 01:17:39 AM »
Team Snowfire passes  
Team Dude fails
Abstain on Team Glen
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 12:21:41 AM by Random Consonant »

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2009, 02:10:08 AM »
Relm having Bolt2 at this point seems iffy to me... it only has a 2x learning rate... and factoring in that she has to alternate to learn Stray's spells before the end of this floor, too... I don't think she gets the last spell until the boss fight. And Demi... I'd kneejerk that she's faster than Relm (only slightly though). Might be a decent argument for Blue to get some good magical smash in before Barrier though, since he has the speed boosts from using Guns... hmm...

I still think the bigger problem is the Magus fight and your team being ID-vulnerable at the moment.
It's up to you for when you see Relm as learning Bolt 2, although I think most people grind a bit to get a few spells after Zozo, keep in mind that late floor three is roughly halfway through the game. If you don't see her as learning it she can use Ramuh instead. Demi is probably a bit faster than Relm at the moment, but even with Barrier her magic durability is only good instead of insane like Wren's. Relm and the Monk can take her out and there isn't anything Wren can do to stop it. He get's heal locked due to facing a full team.

As for Magus, his ID isn't that great and physical durability aren't that great. He may take out Zozma, but the rest of the team gangs up on him. Blue uses physic prison on him and he's no longer a threat. Rena can heal any minor damage that Boss Magus does until PC Magus is taken out and Zozma is revived.


Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2009, 05:39:34 PM »
Updating this at the end of the week.

Taishyr

  • Guest
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2009, 06:43:25 PM »
Team Dude: Blue, Relm, Zozma (Firefly), FFT Monk, Rena
[Blue: Realm (All), Light (All), Guns (Starting techs)]
[Relm: Ramuh and Stray Espers, no magic to start the floor]
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Dude vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia - Relm,
Team Dude vs. Geddoe and Hugo
Team Dude vs. Lulu and Nina1
Team Dude vs. Demi and Wren
Team Dude vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus

Team Snowfire | Purim, Jessica (Firefly), Garnet, Lyn, Rena
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Snowfire vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia
Team Snowfire vs. Geddoe and Hugo
Team Snowfire vs. Lulu and Nina1
Team Snowfire vs. Demi and Wren
Team Snowfire vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus

Team Glen | Cecilia, Raquel, Lilka, Jane (Firefly)
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Glen vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia
Team Glen vs. Geddoe and Hugo
Team Glen vs. Lulu and Nina1
Team Glen vs. Demi and Wren
Team Glen vs. Boss Magus and PC Magus - Mmm. I'm willing to give a tentative pass, since my respect for the first fight is pretty low and thus they get through relatively unscathed. Geddoe/Hugo's the toughest fight, but... mmm. Even with that, Cecilia gets a turn to Suction her and the fight goes to shit for the enemy. Yeah, this isn't ending well for the enemy floor, I think.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2009, 09:49:00 PM »
Team Dude: Blue, Relm, Zozma (Firefly), FFT Monk, Rena
[Blue: Realm (All), Light (All), Guns (Starting techs)]
[Relm: Ramuh and Stray Espers, no magic to start the floor]
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Dude vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia - Outside Zozma and Relm, this team has speed issues (Blue's base is too horrible for Guns to mitigate that this early, and he wants to raise his magic reserves first. Not to mention his damage with guns right now is going to be beyond awful). And Relm isn't doing all that much with one shot of damage and confuse that, due to this floor's gimmick, are ST. Bad idea there, MT Stray would've been a great help otherwise. So, what do they do? Zozma can't ID Eiko and Garnet to me: they null darkness (lol). So, he Sharp Pains Rydia instead, because Rydia getting a turn = Zozma eats it and the team's proper fucked. Also, putting Firefly on Zozma is a horrible idea, he's getting frail by now. Relm Confuses Eiko or Garnet, whichever she gets the drop on first (Garnet would be better short term, Eiko better long-term). Now, if one of these miss right now, they are in -deep- long-term. Let's not assume this happens, though, both statuses are accurate. So, Blue drops someone with Implosion - Eiko, most likely. The team probably -can- pull this off, but Rydia being ID-immune to me (hi Minerva) and the fact that the statuses -will- miss now and then will bring problems this team will regret later, and this is a non-trivial resource drain. This is bad, because most of the team's fights are a battle of attrition here, and trying to stall things out to get mileage out of Monk is unwise: Monk's HP/MP healing is awful, his revival and status healing are unreliable and all of the girls here have "fuck you" status. Given how long they can keep afloat, the team is in trouble if they let this keep up long enough for Zozma to die before a Rydia turn, and avoiding that takes lots of resources.
Team Dude vs. Geddoe and Hugo - First problem: Geddoe OHKOs Zozma, no questions asked, and off above average speed. Second problem: Sharp Pain isn't turn one on him. This won't be much more than an annoyance in practice, but it's more resource draining that they can't afford too well. My respect for Glass Shield against magic is nil.
Team Dude vs. Lulu and Nina1 - And this is where things start getting really ugly. Team Dude -fails- at handling Lulu. Nina opens with Wall/Dispel on Lulu, which has initiative, and I kneejerk her as faster than Zozma at this juncture (at this point, stat junctions on Mystics are -trash- and his bases fail to impress). So, Zozma does that, he eats Stun. Blue is even worse off than Lulu for speed, and Lulu has Confuse resistance. Lulu getting a turn = there is a very realistic risk of two people dying that turn. Nina probably gets handled on the second turn, but given how much resources have been taken from the party at this point, this isn't good for them.   
Team Dude vs. Demi and Wren - Demi and Wren just point and laugh at dude's trickery. They have to blitz this out. Given how I find his Bolt2 assumption quite questionable (grinding? Seriously, man?) - and I personally don't give Relm magic on the floor she gets the Espers at all - yeah no. And Wren goes before non-Relm/Zozma people. Demi and Wren just slowly drain the party out of resources, which they were having trouble with from the get-go. Monk can't even begin to cover those resource woes by himself. No dice.

Team Snowfire | Purim, Jessica (Firefly), Garnet, Lyn, Rena
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Snowfire vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia - Jessica has TDL to me! That's great. However, the fact that, besides Jessica, everybody goes before Snowfire's team here is problematic. Jess probably OHKOs Rydia, though, which actually is a nice breather. Due to being endgame instead of earlygame, I give enemy Garnet the speed tiebreak, so she goes before the rest of the party, but she either uses unreliable status or revives Rydia here, which obviously has issues, since Rydia is still below average speed even with Minerva IIRC unless you don't factor her speed boost into speed-twinked averages (ahahahano). If Rydia gets a turn, troubles may abound, since nobody outside Purim has full status healing right now - and that would spell doom for the team eventually, since Rydia has multiple fatal statuses and Garnet has ID. But. Jess OHKOing Rydia solves -so many issues- it's not even funny. Good thing TDL doesn't have to fight with Dragon Soul right now.
Team Snowfire vs. Geddoe and Hugo - Jessica eats it once here (WoS+HoR = buhbye), but Garnet has revival and Snowfire counts his lucky stars here. I think Salamando is floor 3 to boot, which means Hugo won't get a second turn, and Lyn can deal with Geddoe. I worry about Purim's resources, though.
Team Snowfire vs. Lulu and Nina1 - EDIT: Sylphid comes earlier than Salamando. Yeah, that's game for Lulu.
Team Snowfire vs. Demi and Wren - Here, I'll just give Snowfire the benefit of doubt for resources, since Jess+Lyn should be able to do the job against Demi at least. Wren+Demi... will keep casting Recover forever, but hey.
Team Snowfire vs. Super Magus Brothers - This one, I'm honestly not sure on, since, while boss Magus has supreme suck as damage and PC Magus only gets one turn, not enough to make waves with 50% ID, it's a long haul and Demi/Wren take tons of resources if nothing else. This -is- a fight that the team can realistically lose, though, and they will if I feel tempted to give Demi/Wren the defensive benefit of doubt. I'm just being lenient here.

Team Glen | Cecilia, Raquel, Lilka, Jane (Firefly)
[Floor 3a]
*All MT is ST and targetable
Team Glen vs. Eiko, Garnet and Rydia - Very ugly. They leave the statusin' for Rydia and buff themselves with Reflect to avoid Ceci status themselves (or, say, Eiko Vanishes or some shit). Fortunately, Glen's team was banking on that and Jane is worthless right now (not to mention this takes the pressure out of Raquel's ass). So, Ceci prisons Garnet, Lilka drops Quicken on Ceci and Raquel blows Rydia up. With Ceci lapping Eiko next, she Prisons again and now they can afford to breathe, alongside reviving Jane.
Team Glen vs. Geddoe and Hugo - Don't see the fight as particularly tough myself. Prison > Hugo. Jane dies, but with fast infinite revival, this is something the team can afford.
Team Glen vs. Lulu and Nina1 - This one, however, is amazingly ugly. Lulu is always the big wall those teams have to surpass. Lulu's MDef honestly should be able to ward one turn of Prison here (and Nina1 can just lolwall Lulu for greatness here, so Prison becomes bad and now the team has to PHYSICAL LULU OR EAT A REFLECTED SPELL. Wasted turn at worst, which is very bad when Lulu is capable of dropping a PC per turn). WCYD? hype for me is a no-go due to not having it concerns (hate Firefly so much, tangentially). I'm honestly not sure if they can make it here, because Lulu kills one reviver and now they are suffering, because she can off two people per turn and they can only revive one. And they also want to revive Jane as much as they can. Problematic here, any mistake costs them the entire floor (even with doubles... where are they inching in offensively? Lulu's ID can and will miss now and then, but whenever it doesn't, they're scrambling out hard, and they have damage woes as it stands). Which is a pity, because they will very slowly mangle the rest of the floor if they make it past here. But, as it stands, I honestly can't give them the nod with this level of pressure. Doesn't help that I think I see Hold as "fatal" enough to bypass Firefly, but I consider original Firefly amazingly dumb and take a harsh view on it. Neph did well in dropping a nerf bat on it due to the amounts of colossally stupid.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 03:02:10 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Taishyr

  • Guest
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2009, 09:55:37 PM »
Snow: Suction on Jane makes all of Lulu/Nina1's offensive attempts fail massively, though, I'd think?

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2009, 10:04:32 PM »
Snow: Suction on Jane makes all of Lulu/Nina1's offensive attempts fail massively, though, I'd think?

Suction is terrible, particularly at this point. And Lulu/Nina1 are whoring the hell out. Suction works as MP healing in the DL because the WA MP curve isn't huge and Ceci's spells are mad cheap. As actual MP busting, though? It deserves no respect. Particularly when you consider Nina/Lulu MP pools and how much MP they consume. It's basically a turn wasted, and they can -not- afford to play games there.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Taishyr

  • Guest
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2009, 10:10:42 PM »
Uhhhh

...isn't suction the spell where magic attacks are negated and turned to MP, not the one where she actually stole MP?

If I'm recalling incorrectly, still, Ceci has Reflect too. Use that instead, most of the skillset of both would get shot to hell to me, phys rush on Nina1 kills her and that ends that.

EDIT:
Suction- Absorb magic as MP / single                                  3

FAQ gives that. This seems right, by my recollection, so.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 10:15:48 PM by Taitoro »

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2009, 10:16:45 PM »
Uhhhh

...isn't suction the spell where magic attacks are negated and turned to MP, not the one where she actually stole magic?

Wait, -that-? I don't think that spell even nulled the magic, only gave the MP it spent as MP to the person hit by it, and the FAQ I checked notes that the effect hits attack spells - which may be -only- attack spells. The effect you described is basically what the Magic Parasol does.

EDIT:

Description: Absorb magic as MP/ally
Name: Suction
Use: Cast this upon an ally. Whenever this ally is attacked with a magic spell from the enemy whilst the spell is still active, the damage received will be converted into MPs for your ally, which will then go into his or her MP meter for use on your own spells.

Description, taken verbatim from CMoriarty's FAQ. That could stand to see some testing, but I think it means the spell deals damage, -then- gets the damage converted into MP, which would be a lot less useful.

EDIT #2: Reflect seems to be a L2 from what I checked on the FAQ. No dice for it to be this early (ninth spell on the grid, you get eight L1s per magic type a level from my recollection, and I certainly don't remember Reflect being available on the L1 crests a couple years ago. Could be wrong, though).

« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 10:25:09 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Taishyr

  • Guest
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2009, 10:24:08 PM »
I can't test it, don't have the game handy. I'll poke in chat later, though.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2009, 10:33:05 PM »
The main issue with Reflect, to me, is... who would they target? Everybody wants to be saved by Reflect, and I'm pretty sure Ceci would be the first one to die in that case if she didn't cast it on herself (and she is constantly reviving if she -does- cast it herself. Eventually, she runs out, and Ceci won't win the next couple fights if she drops in there alone. Demi and Wren 2HKO her with physicals and go first >_>). Since Lulu can kill -both revivers-... it gets ugly. If they come out with no revivers, they -are- losing the long haul as well.

... and... shit, this would boil down to OVERDRIVE LULU ZOMG if they even have a chance. I love you, toro, this is awesomely pathetic.

EDIT: Which still says that the team with the best odds of making past this floor is Glen. The other ones I'd hardly give a second glance.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 10:37:22 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Taishyr

  • Guest
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2009, 10:40:35 PM »
Uh, Snow? Firefly. They cast it on Jane. Unless I'm missing a reason it doesn't work here?

If I am, then uh yeah. But I'd think that Jane forcing everything to reflect back onto them makes them emo.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12988
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 3
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2009, 10:42:14 PM »
Uh, Snow? Firefly. They cast it on Jane. Unless I'm missing a reason it doesn't work here?

If I am, then uh yeah. But I'd think that Jane forcing everything to reflect back onto them makes them emo.

I consider Hold as fatal for Firefly purposes (I said I took a harsh view on it) and Nina1 is faster than Ceci.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....