Author Topic: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]  (Read 5673 times)

Yoshiken

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Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« on: July 23, 2009, 01:32:12 AM »
The results from last week, first off. Votesplit, typically for something designed by OK, did nothing as it was supposed to and was the only team to perfectly sweep its opponents in both tournaments.

***Team Tournament***
Team Boom -[0:6]- Team "Votesplit!"
Blonde-Haired Healing Archer-Princesses -[2:4]- Team 01001001 01110010 01101111 01101110
Team My Chemical Romantic Dream -[1:5]- Team "Don't Ask Don't Tell"
Team CT Bait -[5:0]- Team "Butt Monkey"
***Singles Tournament***
Team Boom -v- Team "Votesplit!"
 - Jeff -[0:3]- Lezard Valeth
 - Margarete Zelle -[0:4]- Melbu Frahma
 - Alfred Schrodinger -[0:5]- Borgan
Blonde-Haired Healing Archer-Princesses -v- Team 01001001 01110010 01101111 01101110
 - Marle (Nadia Guardia) -[1:4]- Worker 8
 - Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear -[0:4]- Aigis
 - Flare -[4:0]- Gadget Z
Team My Chemical Romantic Dream -v- Team "Don't Ask Don't Tell"
 - Fujin -[4:0]- Kanji Tatsumi
 - Seifer -[0:5]- Lavitz Slambert
 - Raijin -[0:6]- Raven
Team CT Bait -v- Team "Butt Monkey"
 - Eiko Carol -[4:1]- Yosuke Hanamura
 - Yulie Ahtreide -[5:0]- Junpei
 - Peppita Rosetti -[3:0]- Tink


Seeing as Light didn't have it, I'll explain here about the singles tournament. In Week 1, Dragoons won the Team Tournament while Flying Traitors won the Singles Tournament. Those teams progressed in their own respective tournaments so, if anyone's wondering, the teams in the Singles Tournament are -not- the teams in the Team Tournament. (IOW, make sure to check those before voting if you aren't sure on the teams~)
So, for this round:


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dragoons -v- Team Guy
Team Headband -v- The Other Kind of Yuri
Team "Votesplit!" -v- Team 01001001 01110010 01101111 01101110
Team "Don't Ask Don't Tell" -v- Team CT Bait

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kratos Aurion -v- Guy (FE7)
Kain Highwind -v- Guy Cecil
Jill Fizzart -v- Guy (L2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cress Albane -v- Florina
Max -v- Virginia Maxwell
Locke Cole -v- White Rose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lezard Valeth -v- Worker 8
Melbu Frahma -v- Aigis
Borgan -v- Gadget Z
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kanji Tatsumi -v- Eiko Carol
Lavitz Slambert -v- Yulie Ahtreide
Raven -v- Peppita Rosetti
----------------------------------------------------------------------


The Team-only team:
superaielman - Dragoons - Middle
 - Freya Crescent (FF9 - Heavy/3.74)
 - Karsh (CC - Middle/3.67)
 - Kain Highwind (FF4 - Middle/2.78)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 02:21:16 AM by Yoshiken »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 01:38:48 AM »
So, if the teams in the singles aren't the teams in the team battles, couldn't you put who are the members of the teams in the team battles, then? Looking for team members in older topics is very cumbersome and voter-unfriendly.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Yoshiken

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 02:21:28 AM »
Added here. Will go add elsewhere now~

superaielman

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 02:23:16 AM »
Seconding Snow.

Kain Highwind -v- Guy Cecil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Max -v- Virginia Maxwell
Locke Cole -v- White Rose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lezard Valeth -v- Worker 8- Can he damage W8 in any of his forms?
Borgan -v- Gadget Z
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kanji Tatsumi -v- Eiko Carol- Bet he just OHKOs.
Lavitz Slambert -v- Yulie Ahtreide- Lavitz speed.

Dragoons -v- Team Guy- Too much firepowre. FREYA COULD BERSERK THE OTHER TEAM... this would not be a wise choice.
Team Headband -v- The Other Kind of Yuri- Virginia's a nonfactor and Florina's not much better.
Team "Votesplit!" -v- Team 01001001 01110010 01101111 01101110- Going to assume Aigis can do something to annoy Melbu/Borgan.
Team "Don't Ask Don't Tell" -v- Team CT Bait- Way too much physical firepower. Raven is going first and killing Yulie. Eiko can revive but they still have to deal with Kanji's turn (pain) and Lavitz can keep the pressure up and make the team near impossible to kill with Rose storm.  If Peppita has revival this gets a little more interesting, but... Kanji has a MT str buffer. I fear for the other team when that happens.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 02:28:53 AM by superaielman »
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 10:03:51 AM »
***

Team "Don't Ask Don't Tell" -v- Team CT Bait-Peppita gets at least two turns to do horrible things to the opposing team while they are having fun crushing Eiko + Yulie. Yay for MT. Someone gets killed by Raven but the other mage has some leeway before Kanji/Lavitz get to go and I guess it's probably just better to go for broke and compound on Pep's L10 Power Dance > FF assault w/th Fenrir or earth elemental material (if possible) to take out Lavitz turn 1 before he even gets a turn. How is Kanji's MDur? If he isn't done, Raven has to use his turn to take out the remaining mage and I see Peppita countering Kanji, if not he probably doesn't OHKO her and she gets another turn to use another PD > FF chain. This probably finishes him off due to suffering through one already and Fenrir/we from Eiko/Yulie. Then it's Peppita solo vs Raven and I've already throughly defended my stance on that! >_> Edit: Having played P4/used Kanji-kun quite a fair bit now yeah I can say with certainty Peppita counters his base physical and physical techs no problem like she can counter battle skills in SO3 =-) She can't counter his magic but yeah.
Team "Votesplit!" -v- Team 01001001 01110010 01101111 01101110 - Leaning for the bots but can they all block Lezard's powerful name or w/e? If not that could lead to trouble. I don't remember if Aegis could block ID but I think the others on Lezard's team might have status as well =/

Edit: Team bots now definitely.

***

Melbu Frahma -v- Aigis- I think Melbu has a thunder attack magic! Don't care though as I hold him to his AI pattern. Aegis. Defence buffs. Offense buffs. Melbu damage. Full healing. Yeah I think Aegis can take this.
***
Lavitz Slambert -v- Yulie Ahtreide- Protect/Quicken. FP building. Material abuse. Lavitz. Magic damage. Ouch. Pain.
Raven vs Peppita - Edit: Definite win for Peppita now given Ultradude's + NEB's input. Statuses him out. I'm quite sure her healing lasts long enough for her to get a status out, especially given his terrible susceptibility to status and his damage decreasing from range. From what I gather Raven is short range melee with melee weapons (sword!) Peppita's counters easily deal with short range melee physicals (if I'm missing something just say) She takes no damage due to counter invincibility frames and perhaps causes teh evil SO3 chaos on Raven in the process. If she can confuse Raven then she gets the leeway to play around at will. < Edit 2: Yes I'm sticking to what I said here, see later in the thread for reasoning on the legality of Peppita's counters.  Even throwing her counters out Raven is only hitting near OHKO on her, he's not going first and actually killing her and once she gets a turn she wins, due to how good Panic Dance actually is. Basically Peppita only loses if you ignore/throw out her stuff and why would you do that? That's mean, meaan ;_;
See these posts for details -

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=3743.msg69342#msg69342

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=3743.msg69469#msg69469



**

Hrnn ... need to look into other parts of the match a bit more but me thinks Peppita wants to chain Frozen Daggers on Lavitz before that happens. Lavitz speed. Plus she is ranged with FD. I take SO3 status literally i.e if you're very susceptible to it then it hits and Lavitz doesn't have a SA resist stat so. There should be no problems scoring a freeze in a full chain especially with Berserk. Say Lavitz gets a a turn, he's also a short range meleer so I think Peppita can counter and knock him out of his addition. He probably doesn't want to attack her. Neither does Raven as far as I know.

Or alternatively Eiko can Mini Lavitz, I think even she gets a turn here. Peppita might want to try for a MT confuse on Raven/Kanji in that case if possible with Panic Dance chains.

Granted if my team does manage to take Lavitz out and Peppita's counters prevent Raven from really bothering her, it all depends on whether or not Eiko gets a turn to revive Yulie. Are Kanji/Raven fast enough to gang up and take out Eiko? If both my revivers go down I may very well be snookered, even if Peppita can counter Raven *checks to see if Kanji's a Heavy* Edit: Elven Cloak, iirc SO3 sees Thunder and Wind as the same thing, wind immunity/absorb gets both. Counters the physical. Yes I may very well be taking liberties here ;)

That said I'm sure Eiko probably has Thunder protection lying around somewhere (it is FF9 after all!) and I forgot Raven already had his turn to take out Yulie. If Eiko can just get Yulie back on her feet with Full Life and Lavitz gets statused out then I think my team has a fighting chance. Chances are Lavitz *is* getting statused sooner or later, he doesn't have the SP moves for extended Dragoon form.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 04:06:43 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 01:04:25 AM »
Dragoons -v- Team Guy - Iunno. Also dunno if I care.
Team Headband -v- The Other Kind of Yuri - Virginia is sorta awful, WR is sorta frail and Florina is sorta outmatched.
Team "Votesplit!" -v- Team 01001001 01110010 01101111 01101110 - Um, yeah.
Team "Don't Ask Don't Tell" -v- Team CT Bait - Raven one-turns Yulie without any sort of fuss (actually, he one-turns everybody in the opposing team. This ain't pretty). Eiko and Peppitta are unable to stop either Kanji or Lavitz from getting a turn to boot, and Lavitz and Kanji are going to do ugly things to the rest of the party in the meantime. The minute Kanji drops Matarukaja, the girls are set for unending suffering, since Raven now one-rounds all of them and the rest of them 2HKO with minimal fuss. Peppitta isn't -touching- Raven unless she wants to die, and Eiko gets 2HKOed by Lavitz+Kanji to boot. Just not happening.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kain Highwind -v- Guy Cecil - Kain is awful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cress Albane -v- Florina - Cress sorta doesn't OHKO, has to hack through Florina evade and counters are ugly against him. Spoilage.
Max -v- Virginia Maxwell - Ugly.
Locke Cole -v- White Rose - About as ugly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lezard Valeth -v- Worker 8 - lol
Melbu Frahma -v- Aigis - Melbu is trash.
Borgan -v- Gadget Z - GADGET Z
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kanji Tatsumi -v- Eiko Carol - On the other hand, Eiko wins the duel because stupid status.
Lavitz Slambert -v- Yulie Ahtreide - Yulie -goes first and doesn't get OHKOed-. This is a great way to get her winning.
Raven -v- Peppita Rosetti - EDIT: Man, he more or less one-rounds. That's just horrible.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 01:15:34 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 09:41:43 AM »
What about Peppita's *own* counters? (Edit: Ok yeah I've now saw Raven attacking and wut I see absolutely no reason why Peppita shouldn't be unable to evade counter *that* with her invincibility frames. It's just a wee sword poke (again I may be missing something) She doesn't have to attack Raven on her own turn, just use some sort of combination of Panic/Healing/Magical Dance into Panic/Healing/Magical Dance >_> Granted I don't know that much about Fire Emblem counters but her dances aren't physical. Also can Raven counter L/R? Peppita has Frozen Daggers, Instanto Blast and Magic Hook for range. Plus if Raven can't counter L/R but you somehow see him countering S/R dances she can still set her restorative dances to long to help her stay alive.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 10:22:42 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 10:25:04 AM »
Raven has fairly effective long range with Hand Axes, though it's a hit to his damage and AS to use them.

Never sure how I feel about Peppita's counters myself. She pretty much has to stand there ready to use them which seems like it'd just end in the two duellers staring at each other blankly.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2009, 10:41:30 AM »
Well wouldn't that kind of be like an opponent with FFX characters knowing one has Evade + Counter and not physically attacking them? >_> Granted you might not buy FFX Evade + Counter hype either, I dunno. Fair enough NEB.

I always thought that in the DL a character was *forced/had* to attack/do something on their turn. Hrnn Peppita would be standing there anyway but wouldn't the counter actually be her "turn"?

Thanks for the input =-)

*muses moar on team match* Doesn't my Yulie ever get a turn? I did some more research and from what I found it looks like Kanji is god awful slow (game worst speed?), perhaps even slower than Lavitz, i.e Kongol speed. Urgh why is Eiko's status so crappy, she could've statused Kanji out with Mini/Silence since it looks like she and Peppita go before him both. Peppita's Panic Dance is 100% at L10! >_> <_< <_< Seriously though 60% at 100 Proficiency uses (L3) and she can chain it for extra chances to status. Plus it's MT. Won't this work to save me? ;_; I think it's vital to know here whether or not Raven can block confusion, for all my searching I couldn't find anything on FE accessories/status blockers.

Scenario A

Say you don't allow even Frozen Dagger chains w/th or w/o Berserk to score a turn 1 freeze (I don't know why!)
and Yulie doesn't get a turn.

Raven OHKOs Yulie > Peppita does something > Eiko revives Yulie > Lavitz attacks for SPs > Kanji Matarukaja  - Raven kills Yulie again > Peppita freezes out Lavitz > Eiko revives Yulie > Kanji attacks Eiko (Eiko dead?) > Raven kills Yulie again ... Peppita does something ... ok so yeah looks like this boils down to solo Peppita respect. YMMV but I allow the girl her counters and let Adray/Peppita block wind/thunder/lighting with the Elven Cloak.

... but Peppita has healing/can chain Healing Dance into Frozen Daggers ... so Eiko maybe doesn't die ...


« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 02:30:04 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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superaielman

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2009, 02:45:42 PM »
Kanji can outright OHKO anyone on the team besides maybe Peppita. His damage is really nasty.
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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2009, 02:59:31 PM »
Fire emblem has no PC status protection anywhere ever. In fact, accessories are almost nonexistent. Mostly just 'flyers are neutral against bows' and 'you can't be critted', though FE9/10 added a few specific to the Laguz/Beorc thing.
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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2009, 05:39:12 PM »
Thanks very much Ultradude. Makes sense I couldn't find anything then.

*EYES super*

These videos might give people more of an idea of how Peppita's status works -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PjQoJqTNdY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFYNbCAdI24

It's a bit hard to make out because of angles but I think the devil childs take 5 x 5% HP damage after Peppita's confused them with her counters/Panic Dance, I 'unno if that translates into five turns confused in a turn based setting though. I think Peppita wants to use Panic Dance > Frozen Dagger chains anyway, she might take out two PCs that way. She has enough CP for Panic Dance (6) > Frozen Daggers (3) and Healing Dance (6) She can chain the status or she can chain the dances and turn 2 w/th FD on long O or whatever.

Edit: Solidifying Team Bots vote.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 08:52:37 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2009, 09:57:15 PM »
I'll be frank with you, how does Peppita's -clearly physical and hard to justify as not evadable- status hit turn one against Raven unless it's perfect base? His evasion isn't awesome or anything (awful Luck), but it should be at least acceptable enough to make the non-accurate at base status not hit turn one on average, and then there's the fact that Peppita is trying to physical Raven for that and I find her hard to justify as even average speed if she's using anything that involves her moving, since her running speed is second-worst and her attacks aren't blitzkrieg fast or anything. Given how she's even easily arguable as below average speed, Raven quite possibly doubles with a Hand Axe, which means she's just utterly screwed, since she should be frail enough to get two-rounded by doubled Hand Axes and Raven goes first... and he can possibly avoid her counters (which I honestly see doing nothing due to the stalemate situation NEB gave. Both duellers just stare blankly at space if she tries to set up for them, thus it's entirely useless) with Hand Axes while she can avoid his own counters with nothing. Peppita just sorta can't deal with Raven's offense given how she has to eat counters with nearly whatever she does.
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2009, 10:08:30 PM »
Actually I'm trying to be good here and forcing Peppita to turn 2 status, granted with the healing. Don't see Raven as doubling because those speeds are based on characters running around the arena several times. Without that Peppita *does not* have game worst movement rate. By defaut both Adray and Maria's are god awful and I'm pretty sure Sophia's is too. I see the arena scenario as perhaps meaning a character gets faster or slower as time goes by but yeah Peppita "feels" faster at the start just as then Nel would feel ever faster if I switched from Adray/Maria to Peppita to Nel/Fayt. Plus Adray, Maria and Sophia are all still frailer than her as well.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 10:19:02 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2009, 10:19:54 PM »
Actually I'm trying to be good here and forcing Peppita to turn 2 status, granted with the healing. Don't see Raven as doubling because those speeds are based on characters running around the arena several times. Without that Peppita *does not* have game worst movement rate. By defaut both Adray and Maria's are god awful and I'm pretty sure Sophia's is too. Plus Adray, Maria and Sophia are all still frailer than her as well.

He still doubles her with a Silver Sword, though. He does that to -average-, and you're out of your mind if you're hyping Peppita as fast. And being less frail than someone doesn't mean you're not frail. Peppita is below average durability rather unquestionably (below average in both HP and Defense), and Raven has a strong 2HKO to average with doubles. Regardless, I can't see how a combo of bad running speed+non-fast attacks can be seen as fast - maybe as average at best if you're being generous, but for Peppita to have a chance, you already need to be rather generous.

*Checks numbers.* Actually, Raven deals 88.7% PC HP in damage with a Silver Sword double. Peppita has 90% PC HP and noticeably below average defense (268 to a 315 average). Now, I know SO3 defense isn't a huge stat by endgame, but it's not useless like Tales defense, and that... probably would be enough to drop her into one-rounding range (she only needs to take hits about 5% worse than average? That's hard to not manage even with something like WA2 defense), and it's hard to justify him as not going first. Wow, underrated Raven's damage. This... makes the fight even harder for Peppita, come to think of it.

EDIT: Not really trying to be mean, CT, I know how it's frustrating to see a character you like losing. But the more I look at this fight, the worse it looks for her. Sucks, but it happens.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 10:25:50 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2009, 10:25:42 PM »
Mrffs.

If he's using a sword then isn't he at S/R? If people aren't buying counters then Peppita is staying at L/R. Doesn't he have to move?
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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2009, 10:29:48 PM »
He can move and attack, and as far as I know, Peppita's ranged game is underwhelming. As far as I know, to boot, kiting games aren't really seen as legal by most (I certainly don't see them as legal at al), so that won't work. And, well... if he's going first (average losing tiebreaks still > below average), it doesn't really matter. Peppita doesn't get to start playing distance, and he can win the range tiebreak still, since Hand Axes, although those cost him the doubles (and OHKO. He just 3HKOs her with Hand Axe, methinks). HOWEVER, they still keep pressure, since now Peppita is -forced- to heal or die, since he's getting in her face next turn and she gets killed in the next attack if she tries to hit him due to his counters (and even so, he just swaps to that sword next turn for the lol ohko). It's... pretty brutal, when you think about it. 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 10:32:31 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Ultradude

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2009, 10:32:38 PM »
Dragoons -v- Team Guy
Team "Don't Ask Don't Tell" -v- Team CT Bait
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kratos Aurion -v- Guy (FE7) - Slaughtered.
Kain Highwind -v- Guy Cecil
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cress Albane -v- Florina
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kanji Tatsumi -v- Eiko Carol
Raven -v- Peppita Rosetti
"Turning into bats? Laughable!" says sparkly telepathic Volvo-driving vampire who spent century in high school.

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2009, 10:35:02 PM »
Cress Albane -v- Florina - Sounds rightish.
Locke Cole -v- White Rose - Locke can do... what here, exactly?

Lezard Valeth -v- Worker 8 - oh god

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2009, 10:37:10 PM »
Yeah no I'm not buying Fire Emblem counter hype if Peppita's being forced to throw out her own counters as with everything else.

I'm also not buying Panic Dance is "physical" lol.

Well -

*Kaboom ignores evade. Solon has 9999 AGL. It hits. Kaboom also knocks the enemy around and can knock them away. Raven's not countering if he gets knocked away. If we are taking into ARPG mechanics like moving around into account then I see this happening as well. Healing Dance into Kaboom chains?

*Peppita can start in Escape formation. Her range is as good as Nel's anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXOVzy3ldgc

Frozen Daggers has more range than Nel's Ice Daggers irrc and I wouldn't say Peppita's movement rate is god awful when she can out run and range Lenneth/her Nibelung Valesti who *is* fast.

*Instanto Blast is fast enough. It's called "Instanto" for a reason. It can also hit an enemy anywhere on the field and Peppita can choose where she uses it from. Granted w/o FAM she has to run forward to use it from there but it *does not* take her into S/R.

Actually Peppita has infinite range with FAM IB, hitting the enemy anywhere on the field, from anywhere on the field w/o moving! *is shot*

*All SO3 attacks ignore evade if you hit the enemy from behind
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 01:59:24 PM by Clear Tranquil »
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2009, 10:56:55 PM »
* Jo'ou Ranbu actually checks Panic Dance.

Wait, you're hyping she gets to do -that- to Raven when he goes first and he OHKOs her? Also, Panic Dance being physical actually isn't relevant here: FE evasion is fairly encompassing and universal, it hits both physicals and magic - counters -also- only depend on range, not on type.

Also, the reason why Raven's counters have a better case than Peppita's is quite simple: they don't require setup. If Peppita is even -moving-, whoopsie, no counters for you. Meanwhile, Raven's are innate. You attack him while he's alive and in range, he counters. When you're going for setup vs. non-setup, non-setup wins in the assumption war. I just realized how irrelevant they are for this fight, though.

Tangentially, what is Panic Dance's CP? She -will- have to sacrifice offense to equip it if it's as expensive as any of the other dances, and she obviously can't win a fight with just confuse if her offense fails, as far as I know SO3 confuse runs out fairly quickly and Raven has the aforementioned issue of chippershredding her.

EDIT: Instanto Blast is also absolutely awful damage and is getting her killed if she even dreams of using that. She doesn't want Raven to get a turn, period.

It's what I'm trying to get. She has some evasion-ignoring tools, some weird shit here and there... but you're just listing them without telling me how they decisively make Peppy win. She can ignore evasion? Sure, but unless she's OHKOing with that (and she's not), how does it help? How does it mitigate the fact she just gets one-rounded by Raven and oh she also goes last unless she gets into counter range and she doesn't OHKO with them anyway? Her best shot actually -is- Confuse Dance, and that not being turn one in addition to having Dance issues is... well, damning.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 11:05:32 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2009, 11:08:26 PM »
6 CP. Panic Dance (6) > Healing Dance (6), Frozen Daggers (3 CP)

SO3 confusion is five ticks of 5% HP/MP damage per tick at least *if* she's not just constantly chaining it, dunno how you see that in turns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PjQoJqTNdY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFYNbCAdI24 < You can see the damage per chaosed tick/thingy here.
What's to stop her doing this to Raven? >_>

Edit: Oh yeah forgot she can chain into battle skills from her "Short X" counter.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 11:13:14 PM by Clear Tranquil »
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2009, 11:11:36 PM »
The thing that's stopping her is the potential OHKO I think >_>
"Turning into bats? Laughable!" says sparkly telepathic Volvo-driving vampire who spent century in high school.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2009, 11:14:58 PM »
Her not -getting- to do it. Didn't you said that it would be turn two yourself? She shouldn't be going first with it, and if it doesn't hit, she's -dead-. Raven only needs one turn to kill her (and she obviously can't get to do -anything- if he goes first). Also, that's... a huge hit to her offense. I dunno, she'd need to: go first. Hit first turn with Panic Dance. Then manage to hit it again (because she's dealing rather awful damage with Frozen Daggers and -that- one is hitting Raven evasion <_<) to finish off the job, even considering the mHP% damage. All this while she gets OHKOed if Raven gets -a single turn and he has a better argument for going first than she does-. The argument is very fragile there. While you could be insanely generous and assume all of these are true (this match is insanely interp-heavy), this is way too much to ask for me, personally, too many assumptions needed in Peppita's favor when the numbers alone already line up against her in a very powerful, nearly definite way.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 11:16:56 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2009, 11:15:35 PM »
Well I got the impression he only OHKOs with sword. If he goes first then she *isn't* moving because she didn't have a turn yet, he walks right up to her and she's in position to counter.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 11:18:14 PM by Clear Tranquil »
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"