Author Topic: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]  (Read 5812 times)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2009, 11:18:39 PM »
Then, he moves up to her and stands at her staring at the sun - or just uses the Hand Axe because this pressures Peppita, she can't have a turn below full HP because this gets her killed on the next turn. She still has to attack him to get -anything- going, and if she attacks or does anything other than standing still, she can't counter anymore. She loses the war there.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2009, 11:21:06 PM »
OK if he's going to play BS with staring competitions then she runs away and uses IBCM (her long range X attack which launches her into S/R where she chains into Panic Dance)!

Also for Handaxe aren't you taking into account that she can *heal* and *attack/do something else* on the same turn?

Edit: Bah I can't find a video of Peppita with her launcher =( Edit: Oh right it's in that second video, the player triggers enemy AAA because he's using it by accident there but Raven doesn't even have AAA so she should be able to chain into the Panic Dance after the launch.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 11:46:44 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2009, 11:29:21 PM »
OK if he's going to play BS with staring competitions then she runs away and uses IBCM (her long range X attack which launches her into S/R where she chains into Panic Dance)!

Peppita is the one playing bullshit first. She is the one who has to stand still -first- for the counters to even happen, and you're also forgetting that those counters are basically her basic physical but with confusion-adding... which, actually, makes things worse for her, because they may get dodged even if Raven triggers them, and she then is -screwed-. But generally, stationary stance counters tend to not be useful at all in most cases, because the enemy doesn't have to trigger them (just don't attack) and the one doing the counterstance doesn't get any headway because he's doing the counterstance instead of attacking or -doing anything useful-. See how far Jane's What Can You Do? gets her.

Quote
Also aren't you taking into account that she can *heal* and *attack* on the same turn?

Um. Peppita has to keep dancing for Healing Dance to not run out - and then, either the healing is going to be poor or the damage will heavily suffer. And it still runs into the original problem of ye ol' one-turning: Raven can swap weapons during his turn. If she tries that after being attacked, Raven pulls out his sword and then finishes the job no matter what. *Shrug.*
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 11:32:47 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2009, 11:53:31 PM »
Sure, but she can just cancel bonus/chain from the end of the dance, she doesn't have to cancel asap and I'm pretty sure you allow Berserk so she has enough Fury for a Healing Dance > Panic Dance/FD > HD > PaD/FD > HD > PaD/FD ... chain. Raven has below AVG Luck/status resist  ... Eh w/e, I go nap now!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 12:32:51 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2009, 11:58:27 PM »
Sure, but she can just cancel bonus/chain from the end of the dance, she doesn't have to cancel asap and I'm pretty sure you allow Berserk so she has enough Fury for a Healing Dance > Panic Dance/FD > HD > PaD/FD > HD > PaD/FD ... chain. Eh w/e, I go nap now!

It doesn't help the whole OHKO matter. If she's not chaining full Panic Dances (also keep in mind that she can't do that entirely from both ranges either, the way you put up your setup more or less means that she's getting into Raven movement range and there's no real way getting around that if Peppita is -to deal damage at all-. And obviously, full Panic Dance also means she -has no offense- and gets back into the former ordeal), the confusion is also not hitting turn one, and it hits the issue I addressed earlier: her offense is awful with that setup and she doesn't -kill him- in one string of confusion damage, thus Raven eventually gets a turn unconfused and OHKOs her. It's a -part- of why trying to heal is pointless, she can't live through a Raven turn even if she's at full HP.

She just can't get around that, because she needs to make him not get a turn -at all-. If she misses Panic Dance first turn (very realistic possibility)? She dies. If she goes last (very realistic possibility, odds are weighed against her for speed concerns), she dies. If she hits Panic Dance first turn, but then misses it the next time she needs to apply it (and she -will-, because Peppita running off basic physicals and Frozen Daggers just -fails- at damage)? She dies. Because all of those entail Raven getting his single turn. She only needs -one- of these to be true to lose unquestionably, and the facts point to the fact she is very poorly equipped to stave off even any one of these three possibilities, let alone all of them at once. To win, she needs to do the latter.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 01:08:20 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2009, 01:38:31 AM »
Bah! *throws a Valkyrie Garb at Snow and in the towel* ;-)

Never noticed this till late -

EDIT: Not really trying to be mean, CT, I know how it's frustrating to see a character you like losing. But the more I look at this fight, the worse it looks for her. Sucks, but it happens.

Oh god don't be nice, ironically that brought me closer to watering than anything else >_> Seriously though, Thanks.

Quote
While you could be insanely generous and assume all of these are true (this match is insanely interp-heavy), this is way too much to ask for me, personally, too many assumptions needed in Peppita's favor when the numbers alone already line up against her in a very powerful, nearly definite way.

Fair enough. Though I feel that I am personally being asked to assume/throw out a lot too, that Peppita is dead slow, dead frail (frailer than Eiko/Yulie even?), that I have to throw out her counters, that she suddenly has sucky status accuracy/Raven has stellar status resist + evade, that her tied for second best HIT doesn't matter, it's bad, that chaining doesn't improve her status/healing. That Peppita has a bad range game and sucky healing >_> Though basically this match turned into something
It kinda is a bitter pill to swallow when that's not my experience in game.

It's more frustrating in general that when it comes to Peppita it seems that everyone just seems to throw everything out yet not the same for all SO3 characters. Having extensively used all the SO3 characters, that's painful. Ok not everyone but yeah.

Basically this match started off in a simple turn based setting for me with a simple turned based interp of you're standing in place till your turn, whoever goes first gets countered - and since it's turn based everyone's still in place for counters when their turn does come round but somehow got endlessly complicated and SRPG/ARPGish xD

Same for the team match, I'm assuming Yulie never ever gets a turn ever but yet I don't really know for sure if that is the case. For all I know she could get a turn after Kanji who irrc goes last after Eiko's revived her.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 02:35:49 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2009, 03:36:33 AM »
Well, FE vs. SO3 = lol interpwars. The main issue with Peppita in the DL is that she has a ton of options, but has to make significant sacrifices to use them due to all of her skillset being lumped within her attack skills, and her money support is very expensive CP-wise and has some interpretation walls on its own. So, you have someone who can deal damage, buff, heal, status... but not all at the same time, and she often needs to do that - off someone who is less than statistically sound. She's a fine Middle, but Raven probably should be a Heavy and this is the kind of fight he trives in: a non-durable, non-fast non-mage.

The team fight also highlights how badly Raven alone mangles your team members: all of them have durability/speed issues off the bat (glaringly, he doubles and one-turns all of them, and while he can only do that to one at a time, shoving off one third of your team off the bat gets you in a delicate position very fast), and can't properly apply pressure. Revival ain't going to help enough when it's hampering the opportunity to make any sort of headway and leaves you open for an assault from people who also have strong offense. If Eiko revives Yulie, she just gets killed again by Kanji and Lavitz and Eiko leaves herself open for being brutalized by Raven - and then, it's Peppita vs. three physical sluggers, two of them being outright powerhouses. Uphill battle there.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2009, 04:16:19 AM »
...I'm thinking Don't Ask Don't Tell could have been a Heavy team. Maybe.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2009, 04:24:54 AM »
Not quite, speed bites it in the ass, it lacks crowd control and physical wallability can be troublesome. Rather scary team to fight in a straight Middle slugfest, though.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2009, 05:18:25 AM »
=-)

*hypes Kanji for Heavy and goes to bed*

Morning.

Quote
The main issue with Peppita in the DL is that she has a ton of options, but has to make significant sacrifices to use them due to all of her skillset being lumped within her attack skills, and her money support is very expensive CP-wise and has some interpretation walls on its own. So, you have someone who can deal damage, buff, heal, status... but not all at the same time, and she often needs to do that - off someone who is less than statistically sound.

*nods* I know she has her flaws yeah but I was kinda hoping/hope that the ARPG average speed interp and that her counter attacking ability would off set her stats somewhat =/ I know some people hold all ARPG characters to average speed and I have no issues working with that but I know you don't so I was trying to work with you on that too. I think allowing her counters Peppita might've had a chance of beating Raven since she'd avoid damage with them and then I'd think she might've been able to defeat him from there with by chaining Panic Dance into Frozen Daggers, she can chain out of that once an enemy is confused, try for the freeze with Frozen Daggers then cancel back into Panic Dance and so on. It isn't default that Chaosed enemies and characters in SO3 needly become unconfused when attacked, what I like to do in vs mode is confuse them with Peppita's counters then will they are vulnerable start up a Faerie Friend. Also it probably doesn't matter but Panic Dance isn't just one hit, it's emanates waves with each wave has the chance of causing teh chaos and it's 20+ticks  at L10 w/th each hit having a 80% chance of inflicting chaos on susceptible enemies.

Quote
The team fight also highlights how badly Raven alone mangles your team members: all of them have durability/speed issues off the bat (glaringly, he doubles and one-turns all of them, and while he can only do that to one at a time, shoving off one third of your team off the bat gets you in a delicate position very fast), and can't properly apply pressure. Revival ain't going to help enough when it's hampering the opportunity to make any sort of headway and leaves you open for an assault from people who also have strong offense. If Eiko revives Yulie, she just gets killed again by Kanji and Lavitz and Eiko leaves herself open for being brutalized by Raven - and then, it's Peppita vs. three physical sluggers, two of them being outright powerhouses. Uphill battle there.

Oh right I forgot Kanji didn't *have* to use his turn on buffing. I was kind of hoping Peppita could take out two for the price of one (Kanji + Lavitz) by chaining Panic Dance into Frozen Daggers. That would just leave us right back where we started though w/th Peppita solo vs Raven. Like I said earlier I'm literally forcing Peppita to wait till turn 2 to inflict the status because honestly my own opinion is that a lot of SO3 status (chaos + freeze especially) hit turn 1 since they are based against SA resist in game and I take that literally in the DL, i.e if you don't have it/have low SA resist you're being turn oned, especially given Berserk and cancel combo chains. I'm the same with Nel, I allow her the turn one freeze. I kinda thought everyone or most people did, guess I was wrong!
  
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 01:16:56 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2009, 12:24:19 PM »
Most people take status against average enemy resistance, and that's generally not 0 outside very, very special cases (and, by special, I mean "someone's taking the short bus to school" special, and it mostly applies to game design >_>). As such, Nel's freeze isn't often seen as turn one, etc. Nel's status also -doesn't- need to be turn one because it is attached to her offense in some manner and is an auto-win when it connects, no questions asked. Other status... yeah, need some more punch.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2009, 01:09:14 PM »
Attached to her offence? Ice Daggers (4)> Divine Wrath (7) or something like that? I take it you mean auto win because Ice Daggers freezes and Divine Wrath shatters or something but Peppita can do that too with Frozen Daggers > Faerie Friend/Dream Hammer in a lot of cases.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 01:15:08 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2009, 01:19:21 PM »
It's an auto-win because Freeze makes the enemy unable to act and a frozen enemy dies when hit. Peppita is capable of doing that as well, but Frozen Daggers inflicts it at lower odds, is a worse skill and Peppita sacrifices a lot more options and damage than Nel does to use it, alongside with her own options being worse and her being worse on the statistical end than Nel. Come to think of it, Nel just loves starting with Healing and Ice Daggers being one of her best skills for a long time.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2009, 01:37:38 PM »
I don't see how Frozen Daggers is a worse skill when it does more damage (Frozen Daggers has higher damage per hit modifiers *and* more hits), has more range and costs less Fury and CP than Ice Daggers does but yeah ... Healing.

*muses*

Frozen Daggers (3)
Faerie Friend (6)/Dream Hammer (5)
CP left - 6/7

Ice Daggers (4)
Divine Wrath (7)/Mirror Slice (8)
CP left - 4/3
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 01:40:51 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2009, 01:43:07 PM »
Well, for status accuracy, Frozen Daggers is obviously worse. 10% against 25% per hit.

Past that, I sorta do penalize Peppita's skills for not having as much time to build as Nel's, and given how Nel's Ice Daggers are crazy good for most of the game and useful for all of it (while Peppita honestly isn't someone I'd use for damage in-game, although that isn't really all that relevant for me, I'd just give her the skill levels for her most useful damage skills), it means I see Ice Daggers dealing substantially more damage than Frozen Daggers via skill level difference (not to mention that I always found Frozen Daggers awkward for some reason, while Ice Daggers are just straightforward and spammably good). I do kneejerk those as relevant for SO3, your mileage may vary.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2009, 02:26:31 PM »
*nods*

Mmmm interesting ... In that case does that mean when it comes to Peppita's case you give her more leniency in support skills rather than offence skills when it comes to skill levels? Given how spammably good Power Dance also .is .. (irrc your Peppita cancel/chained it?) ... and how dances like symbology level up a lot quicker than some offensive skills? Makes sense. I would see where you're coming from there because even though I like to control Peppita or micromanage characters and chain Power Dance into an offensive skill for buffed damage the support skill does tend to level up faster, given how offensive skills take longer to level up in general, esp when it comes to Peppita than symbology and the like (unless you actively train skills/auto level!) I like to control Nel disc one, then Maria when she joins (if I'm going to be using her) and finally Peppita or micromanage between Nel and Peppita when I get to a point. I'm weird like that >_> Maria's AI imo becomes the best in the game so I can rely on her to just leave her to do her own thing. Arrr, it's been fun Snow! See you next weekend~
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 02:31:25 PM by Clear Tranquil »
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2009, 02:31:46 PM »
Most likely, yes. Power Dance was obviously Peppita's most valuable skill to me, and it does get its share of use in the DL regardless, given how the boost is very relevant and chainable. So, it getting a bit better than the stat topic would suggest would be okay with me.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2009, 10:22:27 AM »
Guys Peppita can counter while running. If she's running into range and O is used as she gets into the enemy's attack range and it's attacking she'll go forward in counter animation, countering the enemy. In addition if Peppita is S/R and goes to use her short O but the enemy starts up an attack into the meantime her SO animation will change to that of the counter (though meh the latter is only relevant when she faces another ARPG based character) Probably not going to change anybody's mind here but something to keep in mind for future matches. Also Peppita can use Taunt to force an enemy to target/attack her anyway for those who don't buy Pep just standing there BS though granted she'd need the turn to use Taunt first (unless again vs ARPG and free movement >_>) As for me as it is my vote stands, it's just asking too much for me to throw out a part of Peppita's design that was most likely designed with vs/duelling/soloing in mind. It isn't so easy to build a team around countering in SO3 (other melee characters sometimes get in the way) though it works well enough with LR characters/mages. Soloing is really where it shines but. DL wise she also can't help just standing there anyway if she's forced to turn based, it's not her fault =P

It's obviously been way too long since I've played SO3 that I forgot the forward and counter thing =P Once I remembered and loaded up the game to check, I also remembered that it's a tactic I employ with Super Blair, Peppita's counter O she spins backwards but w/th SB you really want to be in her face all the time ASAP since Eddy of Light and especially Death Howl come out *fast* and you want to be in place to counter fast. So use I use forward (D stick) + counter.

Quote
Most likely, yes. Power Dance was obviously Peppita's most valuable skill to me, and it does get its share of use in the DL regardless, given how the boost is very relevant and chainable. So, it getting a bit better than the stat topic would suggest would be okay with me

Yaay. Hrnns. Well it takes just 104 uses to get to L4 (nearly within the 100 proficiences) Dunno where your Power Dance ended up but irrc Tonfa used to cancel Power Dance to 300% then switched to Maria for Scatter Beamed death. If one did that in every single battle since Peppita gained Power Dance due to dances levelling up quicker than offensive moves it might hit L10. I forget, you allow Maria the L10 Scatter Beams in the DL?

*Hypothesis* Under the most generous interp, L10 Power Dance > Faerie Friend chaining with Faerie Friend not being L10 obviously I wonder how long Peppita would take to kill these tanks or if she could use it and Eiko could finish off Lavitz at least w/th elementally boosted Phoenix, reviving Yulie in the process. I know Phoenix is crappy damage ... but it is Lavitz vs magic. Faerie Friend is GT/MT, maybe it probably still doesn't help!

Edit: What if Eiko uses MT Carbuncle Vanish on herself + Peppita lolol?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 12:05:38 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2009, 06:07:34 PM »
Then wouldn't Raven just one-turn Eiko first in that case? Yulie actually isn't the optimal character to kill in the team match.

EDIT: Regarding the counter, I guess that -is- a point. On the other hand, I still have no idea on -how- to take it, since it still seems to require setup of some manner (Peppita certainly wasn't countering things on AI, for an example), and I'd definitely take some measure to account for that in some way.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 06:34:20 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2009, 10:00:52 AM »
Team- Eiko dies ... Crisis Speed triggers. Quicken + Crisis Speed not enough to buy Yulie a double?

**

She wasn't? *Ever*? That's odd.  Edit: Her short X counter where she flips things up in the air is relatively fast and not that much different from her short X normal so I could see that escaping notice I guess. AI Peppita actually *can* counter but yeah it does depend somewhat on what else she actually has to do. Another thing of note is that enemy variation of Peppita can *also* counter (in the Ursa Cave Temple) and it's evil. Her skill set is also all over the place (Faerie Friend, Dream Hammer, Instanto Blast, Kaboom) Thank god she doesn't use Power/Panic Dance though. PC Peppita ... the set up I usually play when using her on the AI is -

Long X - Instanto Blast
Long O - Power Dance
Short O - Increase HP damage or Increase MP damage/Stun
Support - Critical Hit MP or Common Support Symbols (if using Stun) or Standby Healing

Instanto can be subbed for Magic Hook if the team is focused heavily on HP damage and frees up CPs (obviously she can't use CSS/Healing in the DL ... *plots*) ...  Post game ... while Dream Hammer on long O does bring her into short range she can still hammer away with it (this is actually a good way of finishing of Lenneth fast, since Loot Item can be used w/th Peppita's counter X and I like me some moar Valkyrie Garbs~)

Formation - Escape

What usually happens is Peppita starts up Power Dance or a IB > PD cancel and then Maria runs forward and kills things dead but if that doesn't happen and Peppita does find herself in short range she'll start using her physicals which will change to the counter animation if enemies are attacking in the meantime. There's variance obviously such as Pep might decide it's fun to use her physicals from behind the enemy instead in the front but eh.

There was a youtube video showing AI Peppita countering but I can't find it now =-( Someone was doing a P/N path rotating low level challenge, maybe they delketed it =-(

Basically the premise is that Peppita will use her counters if she's nothing else to do in short range or she may use them if the enemy starts up an attack and she hasn't started using battle skills of her own yet. YMMV but again Peppita hasn't started doing anything for DL matches where she's forced to turned based so I'm not sure if I'd limited her skill set myself or by how much if so but if do then there my set up above =-) It ... hits her damage w/th a giant nerf stick if you force her to Magic Hook/Instanto Blast but the counter chaos and obviously the invincibility frames are good. Magic Hook can also inflict chaos and perhaps the counter chaos would give her enough time for Instanto Blast's ID to actually trigger. Oh right she could actually use Frozen Daggers instead of MH and IB as well.


« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 01:32:13 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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alanna82

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2009, 08:34:54 PM »
Kratos Aurion -v- Guy (FE7)
Kain Highwind -v- Guy Cecil
Jill Fizzart -v- Guy (L2) Dont allow Guy Tough hide healing, since thats a 3 person skill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cress Albane -v- Florina
Max -v- Virginia Maxwell
Locke Cole -v- White Rose
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lezard Valeth -v- Worker 8 LOL Mage vs magic immune
Melbu Frahma -v- Aigis
Borgan -v- Gadget Z
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kanji Tatsumi -v- Eiko Carol
Lavitz Slambert -v- Yulie Ahtreide
Raven -v- Peppita Rosetti Raven is very vulnerable to status. Has one of the lowest magic resistances in the game (Magic resistance affects status hit rates). Peppita confuses him. I also take FE averages at 20/20, thus Raven is not doubling. (26 speed cap. I think average speed at 20/20 is higher than 22)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2009, 08:40:08 PM »
 
Team- Eiko dies ... Crisis Speed triggers. Quicken + Crisis Speed not enough to buy Yulie a double?

Oh, it does. Just... what is Yulie doing with that double? <_< Reviving Eiko just so she dies again? Poking non-Raven people for awful damage? Quickening/Protecting people to get them killed before they can benefit from it (because buffing a single PC means you're putting a giant "Kick Me" sign on their forehead)? By that point, Kanji and Lavitz also had their go to boot and someone else is dead -or- the team just got Mataru'd. That's just death, Yulie can't be kept on revival duties forever that way. Someone has to make real headway on the fight, and that's not your team against that level of pressure.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 08:42:58 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2009, 04:21:17 AM »
Huh, that's odd, my post must have been eaten when I originally made it.

Dragoons -v- Team Guy - Jump makes this interesting, but leaning on team Guy anyway.
Team "Votesplit!" -v- Team 01001001 01110010 01101111 01101110 - Boss Lezard has decent physical damage too, right?  I peg Lezard's effective durability at approximately 1.3 PCHP (takes 3 PWS chains to take him down, setting those up can be a bit difficult) and that's not going down in time against Worker 8 assuming Lezard's physical damage is at all worthwhile.  Aigis presumably can't block ID, Gadget Z sucks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kratos Aurion -v- Guy (FE7) - Ugly.
Kain Highwind -v- Guy Cecil
Jill Fizzart -v- Guy (L2) - This is case of zugzwang where neither wants to move at a certain point - Jill for fear of giving Guy a good IP, Guy for fear of getting countered and then hit back for the win.  I suspect that Jill has more breadth in when this happens, though, and she might randomly get a critical and win immediately.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lezard Valeth -v- Worker 8 - See team match.
Borgan -v- Gadget Z
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lavitz Slambert -v- Yulie Ahtreide
Raven -v- Peppita Rosetti

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2009, 04:37:16 AM »
Team "Votesplit!" -v- Team 01001001 01110010 01101111 01101110 - Boss Lezard has decent physical damage too, right? 

Iunno, his only physical damage is Gungnir, and that's a 5HKO. He also can't use his ID at full HP. Also, Elfboy's Valkyrie (and to a lesser extent, mine) wants a word with you about needing three chains to kill him. I think the 100-hit Nibelung Valesti I hit him with was capable of OHKOing him by itself. >_> But transfer abuse, YMMV, etc.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 04:39:09 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Middle]
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2009, 05:32:46 AM »
Lezard has no true physical attack. It's all Flame Shot-like nonsense... a mix of physical and magic. IIRC the best the "pure physical" part manages is about 2000-2500 damage, and that's the limit damage. So 5-6HKOing average, about 9-10HKO on Worker 8.

Not seeing him win that slugfest ever.

EDIT: To be precise, the physical part of Gungnir does 1995 damage, and the physical part of Indifferent Judgement does 2394 (below 60% HP only). The physical part of his "physical attack" does 998, for those curious.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 05:38:30 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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