Trinity Limit - The Second Act [Heavy]

[Yoshiken]

For the results from last week, Hatbot got to choose his first match, and chose it to tie in with the Singles Results. Doesn't stop a mismatch of results, though.

***Team Tournament***
Team Darkness and Light -[1:6]- Team Earth Rune Fangirlism
Team Charming Lesbian Princesses -[4:1]- Team "Come, my backup Einherjar!"
All Them Smash Bros. -[0:5]- Team Twin Tails
Team Cat-Girl -[2:2]- Team Nina - [Hatbot]
***Singles Tournament***
Team Darkness and Light -v- Team Earth Rune Fangirlism
 - Miguel -[5:0]- Tengaar
 - Cecil Harvey -[0:5]- Eileen
 - Gares -[1:3]- Warlock
Team Charming Lesbian Princesses -v- Team "Come, my backup Einherjar!"
 - Lyn -[4:0]- Hrist Valkyrie
 - Noa -[0:3]- Pamela Ibis
 - White Rose -[4:0]- Auron
All Them Smash Bros. -v- Team Twin Tails
 - Ness -[2:0]- Raquel Applegate
 - Ike -[2:0]- Philia Felice
 - Charizard -[0:4]- Aika
Team Cat-Girl -v- Team Nina
 - Nicole Mimi Tithel (Nikki) -[4:0]- Nina4
 - Lin -[2:1]- Nina1
 - Katt -[0:5]- Nina2


And for this week? A lot of teams that are different from Team/Singles, thanks to the Week 1 mismatch of the results. :/

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Priests -v- Blue-Haired Goddesses
Flames of Desire -v- Traitors
Team Earth Rune Fangirlism -v- Team Charming Lesbian Princesses
Team Twin Tails -v- Team Cat-Girl
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Ash Lambert -v- Billy Lee Black
Menardi -v- Jr.
Joachim Valentine -v- Gilder
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Zelos Wilder -v- Celes Chere
Gilder -v- Cait Sith
Kyle -v- Sialeeds Falenas
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Tengaar -v- Lyn
Eileen -v- Noa
Warlock -v- White Rose
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Ness -v- Nicole Mimi Tithel (Nikki)
Ike -v- Lin
Charizard -v- Katt
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Team-only Teams are as follows:

superaielman - Priests - Heavy
 - Billy Lee Black (XG - Heavy/4.18)
 - Sasarai (S3 - Heavy/3.79)
 - Cristo/Kiryl (DW4 - Heavy/3.72)

Hunter Sopko - Blue Haired Goddesses - Heavy
 - Lenneth (VPs - Godlike/4.45)
 - Anastasia Valeria (WA2 - Heavy/4.27)
 - Luna (Lunar1 - Middle/2.72)

Rozalia - Flames of Desire - Heavy
 - Anastasia Valeria (WA2 - Heavy/4.27)
 - Boomerang (WA - Heavy/3.90)
 - Lucied (WAs - Light/2.57)

Ultradude - Team Twin Tails - Heavy
 - Raquel Applegate (WA4 - Godlike/4.50)
 - Philia Felice (ToD - Middle/3.61)
 - Aika (SoA - Middle/3.28)

[superaielman]

Priests -v- Blue-Haired Goddesses- Status spam should do the trick.
Flames of Desire -v- Traitors- Status.
Team Earth Rune Fangirlism -v- Team Charming Lesbian Princesses- Noa charms Elieen. That's fight.


Ash Lambert -v- Billy Lee Black- Splat.
Menardi -v- Jr.- Misty shuts down her skillset.
Joachim Valentine -v- Gilder- Not Gilder.
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Tengaar -v- Lyn- She had some physical immunity skill.
Eileen -v- Noa- Charm!
Warlock -v- White Rose- Floats!
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Charizard -v- Katt- Not 2HKOed.
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[Yoshiken]

Zelos Wilder -v- Celes Chere - Goes first, hits for weakness, kills. Ouch.

Ike -v- Lin - Stays out of counter-range, spams Go on! + Kidding! for eventual ID. Doesn't die before it hits.

[SnowFire]

Priests -v- Blue-Haired Goddesses - Kneejerk.
Flames of Desire -v- Traitors - Status.
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Joachim Valentine -v- Gilder - ID?
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Zelos Wilder -v- Celes Chere - Zelos is going first, sure, but I usually peg Zelos & Kratos at roughly at OHKO to human average.  Celes has above average defense.  Granted, you could argue that Imp Zelos finishes the job on round 2!  But not buying the OHKO.
Gilder -v- Cait Sith
Kyle -v- Sialeeds Falenas - 2 Funeral Winds.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

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Priests -v- Blue-Haired Goddesses - Okay. Lenneth probably misses the OHKO on -everybody- if Sasarai opens with Eartquake - he should, since this is MT 2HKO off above average speed - and she will probably have to kill him first if he opens with LoE, because that's going to be -ugly- on her team if it goes off. This means Cristo opens with Beat on Ana, and Billy gets a turn to Haste, lapping and getting to live. Since another Earthquake finishes the job nicely to boot on non-Lenneth people, the opposing team is just screwed, since Lenneth can't block both Silence and ID to me, and she can't handle a full team by herself that way. She alone makes this quite a fight, though.
Flames of Desire -v- Traitors - EDIT: Status on Ana. Boomerang is underwhelming, can't chip past limits and Lucied just fails.
Team Earth Rune Fangirlism -v- Team Charming Lesbian Princesses - I guess. Eileen getting charmed is ugly here, given this team also has competent MT offense and is mostly faster.
Team Twin Tails -v- Team Cat-Girl - Nikki and Katt maul Philia and I'm guessing the team can overwhelm the rest from there.
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Ash Lambert -v- Billy Lee Black - hr.
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Kyle -v- Sialeeds Falenas - Kneejerking her as less slow if 2HKOed and not 2HKOed if Kyle tries to be faster, which just gives her enough time.
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Tengaar -v- Lyn - lol revenge earth.
Eileen -v- Noa - lol tough love.
Warlock -v- White Rose - lol stone.
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Ness -v- Nicole Mimi Tithel (Nikki) - mutter mutter stupid eb status
Charizard -v- Katt - I... guess? Just kneejerking against Katt 2HKOing, but obviously could be very wrong.

[Ultradude]

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Flames of Desire -v- Traitors
Team Twin Tails -v- Team Cat-Girl - Ugh. Not sure on speed of Time Stop.
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Menardi -v- Jr. - Not... sure that Phantom Fly saves him from being 3HKOd by Supernova with his crappy HP. But apparently she can be silenced?
Joachim Valentine -v- Gilder
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Zelos Wilder -v- Celes Chere - Zelos really wishes I gave him his boss form.
Gilder -v- Cait Sith

[Random Consonant]

Flames of Desire -v- Traitors - Oh right I can actually vote on this.  Team FoD kinda blows.

Ash Lambert -v- Billy Lee Black - No Vandalier makes Ash an unhappy camper.
Menardi -v- Jr. - Menardi is awful.
Tengaar -v- Lyn - Har.
Eileen -v- Noa - Again!

[Rozalia]

Priests -v- Blue-Haired Goddesses - Not sure. I'm leaning towards BHG but I'm not fully sure.
Flames of Desire -v- Traitors - Really not seeing how status wins here. Celes is made useless by boomerang, meaning traitors only chance is Cait's Frog (whats the % on it anyway?) as Sialeeds is OHKO'ed by Lucied. If we assume Frog lands that leaves Cait vs Lucied. However Lucied can't be killed while Boomerang is out meaning Cait has to kill Boomerang which isn't happening considering Lucied gets him first.
Unless I'm missing something really important in this fight I think FOD take it.
Team Earth Rune Fangirlism -v- Team Charming Lesbian Princesses
Team Twin Tails -v- Team Cat-Girl

Menardi -v- Jr - Easy.
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Zelos Wilder -v- Celes Chere
Gilder -v- Cait Sith
Kyle -v- Sialeeds Falenas - Sialeeds fails hard.
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[Ultradude]

If it comes down to Cait vs. Luceid, it's Luceid damage vs. Mog Dance on the slots. If anything, Luceid should be abusing Celes' massive resists, which ACF should overkill horribly unless she drops Minerva. Shadow Stitch might have to deal with Celes' M Block on top of that. Which Black Renegade most certainly has to, though it probably lands first turn for a kill.

Of course, I can't actually vote ACF, so this isn't changing my vote really, but if I did I'd probably vote Flames of Desire.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

If it comes down to Cait vs. Luceid, it's Luceid damage vs. Mog Dance on the slots. If anything, Luceid should be abusing Celes' massive resists, which ACF should overkill horribly unless she drops Minerva.

Why wouldn't she drop Minerva in that case, then? The opposing team obviously can't punish the elemental damage walling loss and the menial durability drop well. Not to mention ACF Lucied -gets OHKOed by everything and only 3HKOs- (so, no, no dumb Lucied OHKOs Sialeeds hype in that case either, her MDef is ridiculous and she doesn't have enough resists to make Dark Lucied notable anyway). Boomy reviving Lucied is also pointless because she loses her turn anyway (and no Lucied revival hype if you see other forms of Lucied in that fight either to me), so dropping her dead is a good way to keep the team's actually sorta lacking pressure a non-factor in the fight if you're having him get her back. Feels like an utter waste of time to me.

That said, I vote on WA3 Lucied, whose damage utterly fails and gets manhandled by Celes healing alone. Just looks like the team cannot handle the sheer amount of healing there.

[Ultradude]

If it comes down to Cait vs. Luceid, it's Luceid damage vs. Mog Dance on the slots. If anything, Luceid should be abusing Celes' massive resists, which ACF should overkill horribly unless she drops Minerva.

Why wouldn't she drop Minerva in that case, then? The opposing team obviously can't punish the elemental damage walling loss and the probably somewhat menial durability drop well.

True, but I'm not sure how much of her M. Block is from it, which leaves her Stitchable. If not, uh, then just go with the strongest armor with few resists... then Luceid still kills Sialeeds, but Boom is probably failing to Stitch often enough and Anastasia probably gets statused too early to matter. Then Boom goes to damage I guess? Except it takes the whole team to keep Cait from getting Mog Dance, so they target Celes. If Sialeeds can get off some damage on Boom faster than Luceid can kill her, I guess an Ice 3 and a Cait physical could finish him off, which would do it.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Shadow Stitch also only cancels a single turn of a single PC, and, as I said, any of Sialeeds and Cait can OHKO Lucied because her HP is just that awful. And that's a turn where Boomy isn't trying to get past the limit, or nobody is getting any offense in at all. Also, ACF Lucied OHKOs -nothing- with zomg 3HKO damage (WA1 Lucied may not even do it itself, Big Moon is a move I find hard to hype as non-OPB, and WA1 Lucied -also- has the horrible durability issue, it's just "probably OHKOed by average damage" rather than "Jogurt", but this just means that Cait and Sia kill WA1 Lucied instead, Ana is utterly awful turn one, not much better turn two and Lucied is even slower than Sial in that form. And, as said before, I'm sooooooo not buying ACF Boomerang reviving non-ACF Lucied), and Ana goes after Cait, who statuses her just fine. I just don't see why Shadow Stitch matters when it means that nobody is making any headway for Boomy's team.

[Ultradude]

Like I said, having not played ACF makes arguing about it more difficult. So if Luceid's durability is really that incredibly awful, then I guess Flames of Desire just dies - Boom can't afford to waste turns resing Luceid who'll just die again anyways.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

... um. If you haven't even played ACF, then it's not a factor for you, is it? WAo Boomy doesn't even have Shadow Stitch and WAo Lucied, in addition to being very slow, doesn't have Mad Lucied for elemental resist exploitation, so Celes gets them turns and goes for Minerva regardless (also, Big Moon is a middling 2HKO [about 60% to average]? Fail, it quite possibly fails to handle Sialeeds. -_-). It probably matters for Rozalia in that case, but if he's seeing ACF Lucied/Boomy, they just blow up because ACF Lucied dies to soft spring breezes and Ana is a non-factor in this fight.

[Ultradude]

I was just reading the stat topic and reacting to Rozalia.

Of course, I can't actually vote ACF, so this isn't changing my vote really, but if I did I'd probably vote Flames of Desire.

Except now I'm convinced that they'd lose anyways so it matters even less.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

* Jo'ou Ranbu nods.

Sorry if I sound pushy when I start arguing those matters, but I sorta get carried away. Also, it's nice to refresh people that ACF Boomy/Lucied aren't necessarily better than original (Boomy is very similar in both forms, solid stats but has the issue of not quite 2HKOing - EDIT: Actually, Boomy in ACF -does- 2HKO! Just the durability kinda uh blows. - and Lucied is so awful at taking hits that this form is a straight downgrade from WAo).

[Rozalia]

It probably matters for Rozalia in that case, but if he's seeing ACF Lucied/Boomy, they just blow up because ACF Lucied dies to soft spring breezes and Ana is a non-factor in this fight.

The whole enemy team is average speed so it doesn't really matter. If Lucied dies s/he'll just get a turn before the traitors anyway.
I remember Sialeeds (and well most bosses in S5) being OHKO'ed turn one and while Lucied doesn't have great damage its enough to take out such crappy hp.
All that remains is essentually take out cait and that should easily be done when boomerang reachs a doubleturn (I'm aware due to the system he can't in game but I don't see why he can't here) if theres any issue with Lucied doing the job itself.

Boom can't afford to waste turns resing Luceid who'll just die again anyways

Its a counter used whenever Lucied dies.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It probably matters for Rozalia in that case, but if he's seeing ACF Lucied/Boomy, they just blow up because ACF Lucied dies to soft spring breezes and Ana is a non-factor in this fight.

The whole enemy team is average speed so it doesn't really matter. If Lucied dies s/he'll just get a turn before the traitors anyway.
I remember Sialeeds (and well most bosses in S5) being OHKO'ed turn one and while Lucied doesn't have great damage its enough to take out such crappy hp.

She has a PC form that doesn't die to Yulie damage and has no reason to be forced into the boss form. Also, they have to chip around Cait's limit (Zeik himself can't do it at all, neither can Lucied with her 3HKO damage), and, as far as I know, Lucied doesn't get a turn when revived. And given how, as said before, Anastasia is a non-factor, it's not really happening. Not to mention Celes quite possibly solos the team by herself with Vanish if they let either Celes or Cait Sith get a turn (you're not forgetting Anastasia is below average speed herself, right?). If Lucied's doing all the attacking while Zeik SACRIFICES HIS ENTIRE OFFENSE to spam Shadow Stitch, that's happening. And Zeik isn't even all that fast, although he's pretty decent. And someone -will have- to kill Sialeeds even if you force her to the boss form even so, resulting in someone else getting turns to boot, and Shadow Stitch can and will miss. They're not making real headway, and Boomerang himself should get 3HKOed at worst by the opposing party's offense regardless (which is mostly MT, Cait aside). His HP is terrible, something like 0.7x PC HP off a cursory glance.

EDIT: Actually, off my scaling, his HP is 0.62x PC HP. Okay, that gets Boomerang 2HKOed pretty fast.

[Rozalia]

She has a PC form that doesn't die to Yulie damage and has no reason to be forced into the boss form.

I force her to it for the simple reason its meant to be her strongest form plotwise regardless of how much it fails in game.

and, as far as I know, Lucied doesn't get a turn when revived

But has the speed to overcome this. If Cait kills Lucied who is then revived, Lucied will beat Cait to the next turn as s/he's faster. If keeping to the turn based combat of the home game then you're right but that isn't exactly fair when theres being who use action bars.

(you're not forgetting Anastasia is below average speed herself, right?)

Not at a single point have I said Anastasia would play any part in this fight whatsoever. Unless her speed is above Caits (Which I don't think it is) she plays no part except hitting for very weak physical damage.

(Zeik himself can't do it at all, neither can Lucied with her 3HKO damage),

Boomerang 2HKO's cleanly enough. That would mean for him to kill Cait he'd have to wait until he double turns which would take what 3 or so turns.

And someone -will have- to kill Sialeeds even if you force her to the boss form even so

Lucied gets the first turn and pastes Sialeeds into the ground, so its not really an issue.

and Boomerang himself should get 3HKOed at worst by the opposing party's offense regardless (which is mostly MT, Cait aside)

Doesn't matter much if Cait is the only one who can attack.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Problem is Cait's limit doesn't work like that. You hit the range, the gauge fills up at lightspeed and he gets the turn to use the limit at top priority. A double can't overwhelm that, not when Boomy can't chip. And ACF revival does not let you be revived and get your turn in the same turn in-game, certainly shouldn't happen in the DL. If she gets revived, the CTB gauge for her should be reset. And keep in mind that Lucied -herself- can't chip Cait because she 3HKOs, and Zeik's double comes -after- Lucied's gotten a second turn. And if Celes gets even one turn (which she will by turn two or so - before Zeik doubles - Shadow Stitch is evadable and Celes has decent MBlock), that's the end to boot, because now they lose the damage war.

[Clear Tranquil]

xD

You have way too much fun with this  

[Rozalia]

And keep in mind that Lucied -herself- can't chip Cait because she 3HKOs, and Zeik's double comes -after- Lucied's gotten a second turn

Why is that a problem exactly. If you don't allow Lucied to wait (I don't so I'm not going to argue this) then s/he can always attack Celes with black fang to avoid putting Cait in limit range, Boomerang kills Cait after one of Lucied's attacks. The only reason he'd have to wait for a double to do so is to avoid Celes getting a turn and unleashing hell.

The thing about this match is I don't exactly see Celes dodging SS at all as I don't think SS is physical or magical in nature. Unless she can block unlisted attacks in game I'm not going to allow it (Not to mention that if the stat becomes worthless then her effective evade against SS becomes 0% thus giving boomerang all the time he needs).

And ACF revival does not let you be revived and get your turn in the same turn in-game, certainly shouldn't happen in the DL

 

When did I say s/he'd keeps the turn it was about to get? The reason Lucied gets a turn is due to the revival being instant. If Cait kills Lucied then they're both at the start of their bar. Lucied being faster nabs the next turn before Cait.

You hit the range, the gauge fills up at lightspeed and he gets the turn to use the limit at top priority

Forgotten about that but I still stand by what I said.

A double can't overwhelm that, not when Boomy can't chip

Cait isn't some kind of hp god (Barely above average). Boomerang has enough damage to kill Cait after 1 of Lucieds attacks. If you don't see it then Ana can chip with her frog damage (I really don't remember but I I think its mini that reduces damage to 1. Frog just lowers it to a 10th or something)  for two or so turns.
Unless of course Cait uses Mini turn 1 but that might allow Ana to get an inpulse off considering Mini doesn't stop you from using Magic or limits and that could be bad.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

And keep in mind that Lucied -herself- can't chip Cait because she 3HKOs, and Zeik's double comes -after- Lucied's gotten a second turn

Why is that a problem exactly. If you don't allow Lucied to wait (I don't so I'm not going to argue this) then s/he can always attack Celes with black fang to avoid putting Cait in limit range, Boomerang kills Cait after one of Lucied's attacks. The only reason he'd have to wait for a double to do so is to avoid Celes getting a turn and unleashing hell.

That is a point. Issue is that this is not only still running into Celes defense/evade, Boomy attacking Cait means Celes is getting a turn, and means she finishes off what Cait Sith started (Boomy gets 2HKOed by Cait+Celes), and Lucied is so winning the match by herself with her sub-10% PC HP.

The thing about this match is I don't exactly see Celes dodging SS at all as I don't think SS is physical or magical in nature. Unless she can block unlisted attacks in game I'm not going to allow it (Not to mention that if the stat becomes worthless then her effective evade against SS becomes 0% thus giving boomerang all the time he needs).

Now this just doesn't make any sense. Shadow Stitch is evadable in-game. Not allowing it to be dodged is letting it do something it can't do.

And ACF revival does not let you be revived and get your turn in the same turn in-game, certainly shouldn't happen in the DL

 

When did I say s/he'd keeps the turn it was about to get? The reason Lucied gets a turn is due to the revival being instant. If Cait kills Lucied then they're both at the start of their bar. Lucied being faster nabs the next turn before Cait.

Her CTB gauge still resets. At worst, it nullifies the doubles she could get otherwise.

You hit the range, the gauge fills up at lightspeed and he gets the turn to use the limit at top priority

Forgotten about that but I still stand by what I said.

A double can't overwhelm that, not when Boomy can't chip

Cait isn't some kind of hp god (Barely above average). Boomerang has enough damage to kill Cait after 1 of Lucieds attacks. If you don't see it then Ana can chip with her frog damage (I really don't remember but I I think its mini that reduces damage to 1. Frog just lowers it to a 10th or something)  for two or so turns.

Cait isn't, but, as I said, letting Celes get a turn is just asking for trouble (and they actually can afford to let Ana get a turn, because, as said before, she -is- worthless turn one because Impulse sucks -ass- at starting FP), she borderline solos the team. And Frog reduces the only damage she can do to 1/10th, sure. Given how this is a basic WA2 physical, this is something within the realm of Jogurt damage.

Unless of course Cait uses Mini turn 1 but that might allow Ana to get an inpulse off considering Mini doesn't stop you from using Magic or limits and that could be bad.

Frog... doesn't? News to me in FF7. The only magic it allows you to use is Frog/Frog Song from what I know (and none in the opposition -has- that). Mini is the one that lets the statused one use spells, and Cait obviously has no reason to use it.

[Tide]

The thing about this match is I don't exactly see Celes dodging SS at all as I don't think SS is physical or magical in nature.

Even if Celes has no evade versus Shadow Stitch, it CAN miss - it's not a particularly accurate move. Just as a heads up, I've seen it miss against Jack myself. So Boomerang can constantly hit Celes with Shadow Stitch to me is a not a relevant argument. If Celes even gets one turn, that whole strategy falls to pieces.

The other thing is, Ana is a complete non factor. Cait can stack Mini with Frog. If Luceid can't deal more than 3HKO damage (which he SHOULDN'T. Low levelled ACF Cecilia gets 2HKO'd by it. Someone like Cait who has solid HP certainly should be at least 3HKO'd), then Cait will inevitably get a limit. And that's lights out.

Note that any other interpretation of Sialeeds (which you discount in fairness) makes this match completely impossible for Team FoD to win >_>. Just checked Boomerang's immunities and he's vulernable to SLEEP. Failure.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

In fairness, the other team actually has a chance now that I look a bit closer at the match if you're forcing Sialeeds to her horribly useless boss form. But... that's the -only chance- it has and it's still reliant on things not getting screwed up on their side. One dodge from the opposing team and they're sinking. And there's the chance Sialeeds -doesn't get OHKOed by Lucied with the MT- because of massive MDef. Granted, elemental resists probably eke it back into OHKO territory. Past that, though, it's an uphill battle.

EDIT to Tide: WoS is still useless there. He resists the status and uh S5 Wind of Sleep is 20% HIT RATE YESIU.JPG. Sialeeds not being OHKOed by Lucied is a good start to make things horrible for the opposing team, though.

EDIT: ACTUALLY... hm. Lucied goes first. OHKOs Sialeeds, damages the entire party with Black Renegade. Boomy kills Cait (Boomerang's 2HKO is rather solid). Celes gets a turn and 2HKOs Boomy while OHKOing Lucied. Hm, think this ends up putting too much pressure on Celes. Keep in mind, however, that this only holds true if you force Sialeeds to the boss form (which I still find rather arbitrary a nerf, but it's not like the form is illegal or anything). If Sialeeds gets turns, she finishes the 2HKO with Celes and Ana is completely screwed. If Boomy tries to kill Sialeeds, Cait finishes off the job instead. Pathetic.