[Day 3] Candystore Mafia, formerly Generic Boring Mafia

[Deltaflyer]

Apologies for lateness people.

Current view on people:

Alex:

SOMEWHERE OFF IN OUTER SPACE
Delta.  Honestly, asking Delta his thoughts on things never helps, I can't read him.  Instead I'd like to see everyone else say what they think about Delta.  For my part to start off, I think he's been a little more lucid this game, but also more in the background than I would expect for two people voting him immediately, even as jokes.  I could definitely see him as scum being told to sit quietly. 

Or a normal human who requires Sleep once in a while. :/. Coincidentally, why are you saying that you could 'Definatly' see me as scum, and yet in the same paragraph you state that you cannot read me? Surely that means that you have a neutral view of me until you can read me? Because if I am not wrong, that's a self-contradiction.

Anyway. In all honesty, I cannot see Alex as scum right now. Appears to be contributing well, even if he seems to have a grudge against me and my 'new-ness' to the game.

Bardiche: To be honest, I cannot get a read. Seems to be focusing solely on Sopko, which is alarming. However,

What? So uh, I need to look at people other than Sopko?

I'm slightly wary of Laggy/Alex. Not because of their content, because I find their participation to be solid and benevolent. But the fact they keep hiveminding/ninjaposting eachother? >_> It's just too coincidental and things that are coincidental deserve scrutiny. Otherwise neither strike me particularly as people I want to pursue as possible scum.

Appears indeicisive here, like he does not wish to  make a strong arguement against anyone but Sopko. I can definatly agree with Sir Alex here:

Bardiche, who has extremely aggressively pushed Soppy both days and... not said too much about anyone else.

Sopko: Pushes Laggy around Day one, but not Alex? Completely ignores Alex, saying that it is 'because Laggy was first to respond'. Hmmph. Strong scummy feeling, so Im going with my gut here:

##VOTE: Hunter Sopko That's L-1.

Laggy: Has been interwined with Alex in thought patterns all game until just now, but even so, coincidence? Laggy appears to have denied any collaboration here:

(People who keep bringing up LagAlex hivemind... man, what do you want me to tell you >_>)

I don't know. I still think that one is buddying up to the other, and I am feeling that Laggy would be a stronger suspect for this, but just barely.

Tonfa- Makes a good point in counter-arguement of Sopko here:

I'll bite.

absent for long stretches of time

Oh. Yes, like that one I time I slept. Lovely use of plural here when plural cases do not exist. Unless 4 hours counts as a long absence somehow. Funny that you would bring it up though considering you were absent for over a 23 hour period during a 48 hour day though!

Yes Sopko, please, do explain.

As per your question: Whom do I think is scum now?

In all honesty, you.

Yoshiken: Looks better today than he did yesterday, contributing more, and I find myself oddly agreeing with much of what he has to say.

More at some point tonight.

[Bardiche]

I take back my earlier comments re: Deltaflyer.

[Tonfa]

So all the Soul Keys have gathered! A'ight, this is a Delta post I can actually get a read on. Yet another list format with extremely superficial things to say about people. It's an extremely safe way to play and honestly not looking very good. Day 1 posts were just incomprehensible with way too literal reads of posts on his part.

LagAlex(sorry, lumping you in as one because of being almost completely similar in my head for the purposes of this game.) I cannot make a judgment on, other than they are not a scumteam.

Not seeing the Yosh case at least yet, personally. He's looking a fair stretch better then Delta and Soppy at any rate.

Sticking to my guns, ayup.

[Tonfa]

Oh, yes. Delta also nails the "vague promises of more analysis, LATER" card.

[Yoshiken]

Okay. Seriously. We need more consistency here. Reading Delta's post has just confirmed this for me, so this is primarily directed at him, but also somewhat at a few others - should be fairly obvious who's said what from a quick re-read.

I've seen people complaining about a one-track mind (like Bard's) and about list posts (like Delta's). So, uhh, which should it be? 'Cause those two are polar opposites, and everyone's gonna be doing one of them to -some extent- (most have, naturally, been going for the former.)

[Tonfa]

I have no problem with either type as long as it doesn't only tread old ground.

[Bardiche]

Everyone has their personal likes and dislikes. Some like lists, some don't. You have to learn to deal with this, Yoshiken.

I'm not a massive proponent of lists as all it does is usually provide various shades of "I don't distrust these people" making up most the members and "I distrust these people". It's just as well they tunnel-visioned, because in the end there's just about no one you can trust unless you have specific roles. We're not getting into that discussion though.

[Laggy]

List posts are not bad if they have good and solid content and pursue an obvious direction in which you state the case you're on. However when you make vague and generally weak-sounding posts that try to just look like you're covering all bases, the content is poor.

There's also a difference between one-track mind and sticking to a case you feel strongly about. Bard doesn't just rehash what he's been gunning on Soppy, so I don't find him particularly scummy for doing so. The fact that everyone is more or less agreeing that Soppy looks bad only supports this.

But y'know, Alex kinda brought a good point up in that I don't really want to dwell so much more on the discussion with Mafia tactics and post style. That was adequate for Day 1. Day 2, after a mislynch, we need to be focused on looking for scumtells, especially since a screwup will lead to LYLO tomorrow.

Delta! Posted. I... yeah. Not really offering any new insight, but he posted. Everyone is aiming at Soppy, and at this point I would be vaguely comfortable with a Soppy lynch but he really does need to respond to all of this. On account of this vagueness Delta would be next on my "would lynch" list. I think I'm going to chalk up to simple disagreement between me and Yoshi; he still has been more productive and more responsive than Delta has been by a good margin.

Alex/Bard are still neutrals to me.

[Yoshiken]

Well, uhh, this all got quiet all of a sudden. Are we all just waiting for Sopko to show up, or... have I missed something?

Random flick of a card and... Tonfa! What is your view on... Laggy and Alex outside of "keep agreeing"? (I picked a random person to ask something to, it turned out to be you. This seemed to be about the only thing I could think of that you hadn't really commented on already.)

[Ranmilia]

Waiting for Soppy to show up.  He was in IRC a while ago, not sure what the dealio is. 

Since you mention it though I don't think Laggy and I have agreed since the beginning of the day and I'm a little disturbed people keep saying we are.  I think he's been kinda coasting and dismissing the Soppy issues with "it's all been discussed already" and "Soppy needs to show up" while poking at Yoshi and now Delta.  Even in his last post there he goes "Yeah let's look for scumtells" and then... doesn't actually do so.  Mmmmm.

But where is Soppy.

[Bardiche]

I agree that Sopko needs to show again. This disappearing randomly act of his is seriously debilitating our ability to act, since we're stuck here waiting on him. Of course, this only strengthens my belief that he is scum and deserves to be axed.

An idle thought while re-reading posts: Delta, bolding and increasing the size of your misspelling of "definitely" isn't actually smart. >_> Spell definitely as definitely, not definatly.

[Yoshiken]

Alex, I think today's been about half and half? You keep doing the whole "Hey, look, ninja again with the same sort of post!", but then there has been that one disagreement starting... the bottom of Page 4. That said, this day's... really not consisted of all that much.

[Hunter Sopko]

H'okay. First off, since I'm -1. Vanilla town. I also was roleblocked last night apparantly.

I don't really know what to say. Maybe I'm just incredibly rusty on scumhunting or whathaveyou, but I'm not just gonna give up.

Tonfa's play is still irking me. He definitely gives a good defense and I appreciate responding to my question, even if it was mostly deflection. But he's mostly shut up after that again. He's made a few quips, but I can't help but feel that he's just being incredibly dodgy. Bard seems to get part of what I mean.

And before anyone says anything else about it, yes. I know I've been absent. But just because I've been absent doesn't mean I can't call out someone else's. If you want to say there are only certain, limited ways I can look for scum due to how the day's played out, then I'd call you abstructionist and scummy.

Alex still gets to me. when the Alex/Laggy hivemind forms, it's always been Alex following Laggy. When it finally broke, it was Alex posting on his own before Laggy. It feels like Alex as scum trying to link himself to a townie. And I think thats why my gut has been saying this the whole time.

Delta could go two ways. It could be a townie thats being opportunistic to vote someone else because there's heat on him as well. However, his response to my question was lackluster and he has constantly talked about who he DOESN'T think is scum. His going after me (the easy target) in which he parrots others arguments adds nothing, and the Yoshiken bit for my question is also a tepid and weak girly slap to try to avoid drawing attention.

Bard is a null to me still. I think he's just a townie convinced of my scumitude and I can't really fault him for it.

Laggy is also someone that could go vastly two ways to me. If his stuff with Alex is not an insanely good scum gambit where he and Alex are working together, which I still see as possible at this point, he's pretty golden. He is the loudest with trying to get people to not focus solely on one person for today and at least posits cases on others.

Yoshiken is... I guess I've completely not been paying attention to him. Probably more my fault than his, but people can be their own judges on whether he's successfully flying under peoples' radars or not.

Tonfa and Alex are my two main people that I think at this point, with Delta alternate and outside chance of Laggy. So I'll stick to my conviction.

##Vote: Tonfa

[Laggy]

Soppy, I can't help but wonder: why exactly does Tonfa feel the scummiest to you? He responded pretty much perfectly to your initial case on him, and he's laid a pretty damn thorough case on you yourself. I'm definitely not getting the feeling that he's "dodgy" about anything at all, if anything I think he's been the most concise townie this game with plenty of good points in general. He's also not afflicted with tunnel vision re: Bard. So... unless you're going on something here that's not just gut/feeling, I am just not seeing it.

[Yoshiken]

Alex still gets to me. when the Alex/Laggy hivemind forms, it's always been Alex following Laggy. When it finally broke, it was Alex posting on his own before Laggy. It feels like Alex as scum trying to link himself to a townie. And I think thats why my gut has been saying this the whole time.

I think it comes to no surprise to everyone that I've been suspicious of Alex? Yeah. Bu~ut, I took a look through the previous posts when I considered the Laggy/Alex "One must be scum" thing. I think all but the first post, Alex posted first. That was up until the end of Day 1, IIRC.
And the way you've phrased that really bothers me. "It was Alex posting on his own before Laggy." ...What else was it gonna be? You've basically said "The one time Alex posted his opinions first, Alex posted his opinions first!"  Can you elaborate on what you mean here? 'Cause that last post really isn't doing anything to shift my suspicion elsewhere.

On that note... Alex has definitely had a much better day today, in my eyes. His Day 1 behaviour really had me eyeing him a little, but today he's been a lot more... Hmm. I want to say 'helpful', but there hasn't been much to help -with-. A lot more... insightful? I think that works.
This day's not really been helpful for much, to be honest. Delta's gone down in my estimation, and I'm not sure what I'm gonna be going with tomorrow if Sopko gets lynched and flips Town. It's between Alex and Delta for me -so far-.

[Bardiche]

Yoshiken's post above me makes me headdesk. Yoshiken, why does Sopko's phrasing of things 'bother you'? Or rather, 'how' does it bother you? Does it make him more scummy to you, does it make it hard to understand for you? Please specify this, I am intrigued.

Deltaflyer, what are you trying to get at with your paragraph re: me? You're climbing my ladder of suspicion at a very rapid pace, and unless you're volunteering yourself to be the next lynch target, I suggest you start making sense.
All your bit about me does is parroting Alex, accusing me of looking only at Sopko.

This remains to be untrue. I've voiced my suspicions of Tonfa, I simply see no reason to deviate from my present course since I feel Sopko is scummiest among those alive today. His lynch, for good or for bad, will teach us more about the other people, and in turn speculating about the scant possibilities of all others being scum is not going to be enlightening. There has not been much material to work with today, or the day before. I grasp what reaches out to me most strongly.

Deltaflyer. Please provide your thoughts, rather than quoting others and banking off of what they have said. You are painting yourself a grim future like this.

[Ranmilia]

I'm... not sure what to say to Soppypost. 

Thought experiment
IF Soppy is town THEN
- He's played rather poorly, was off on Mage, is off on me... not sure what to say about his thoughts on Tonfa.  I still read a very forthright town tone in Tonfa's posts and think Soppy may be getting sucked into some OMGUS here.  OR he could be right... but that would make Tonfa scum.  Then we're looking at ScumTonfa interacting on day 1, and interacting with TownSoppy today. 

I... don't think I can see ScumTonfa making that "all right, I'll bite" post and getting into the slapfight with TownSoppy.  With Soppy already being pushed on by Bard, and me and others trusting Tonfa, it'd be too good of a situation for ScumTonfa.  Why get into a fight like that rather than capitalize?  So if Soppy is town then he's been wildly wrong on all cases.

IF Soppy is scum THEN
- I was possibly right about earlygame baiting, which Yoshi took.  He tossed some jabs at me, moved to Mage at convenience, found himself under fire and heavier fire day 2 from Bard.  Rather than confront Bard, puts suspicion on Tonfa, who would be either his scumbuddy or very townie, and moves from there, seeming more or less resigned to being lynched today in order to presumably give his buddy armor for endgame.  This... could work with Tonfa or Bard as his buddy, yes.  Could also work with Delta as his buddy.  Yoshi... less likely but still possible as Yoshi's kind of coasting and interacting on and off with me.  Laggy... ugh.  Same thing as Yoshi in my eyes.  Yeah, I can definitely see this going down.

Half his tone comes off very townie, the other half... not so much, particularly some anger at Tonfa.  I'm just not seeing a REASON for that anger, though.  Mrf.

Yeah, this is all coming back to bad vibes and... things just make more sense strategically, pieces fall into place if Soppy is scum.  And I can't see a better candidate arising here.  I'm gonna say I'm down with the Soppy lynch here.  It'd be great if Delta could post more, but honestly I'm not waiting up for him to provide anything of real use.  Tonfa's gone, Laggy and Yoshi I've no questions for.  One thing for Bard, though, why are you saying things like "for good or bad" and talking about reaching out and putting suspicion on Tonfa... okay yeah reading that ninja really sets off alarm bells for Bard/Soppy.  Mrf.

[Yoshiken]

Yoshiken's post above me makes me headdesk. Yoshiken, why does Sopko's phrasing of things 'bother you'? Or rather, 'how' does it bother you? Does it make him more scummy to you, does it make it hard to understand for you? Please specify this, I am intrigued.

Both of them, as highlighted in the post. Maybe that wasn't too clear.
The section I quoted makes little-to-no sense to me. He basically stated the obvious as a reason for Alex looking suspicious with the "it's always been Alex following Laggy. When it finally broke, it was Alex posting on his own before Laggy." I'm not sure what exactly this is supposed to tell us, past Alex/Laggy posted together a lot, and the first poster changed a bit.
The part that makes him seem more Mafia-like here is that Laggy only posted before Alex once on the first few pages, and Alex got the first post every time after that, IIRC. This kind of misguided analysis is a major scumtell for leading Town astray.

[Deltaflyer]

I SPENT TWO FUCKING HOURS ON THIS FUCKING POST, NINJA'D FOUR TIMES, AND THE INTERNET HANDS ME A CUP OF FAIL ON A SILVER PLATTER.

Ill try to type it all up again now if people want, or in the morning as soon as I wake if not. Sorry guys.

I hate this computer.

[Ranmilia]

Can you at least give us the bullet points or something?  Odds are hammer will fall before tomorrow morning.

[Bardiche]

I already put suspicion on Tonfa earlier this Day, Alex, and have maintained my view of him as confusing me because of his initial desire for me to defend against jokevotes. An act like that was waved off by me at first because I believed it would be distracting, or otherwise a catalyst for scum to attack me on: I went on with it for the sake of snarking and any discussion would be good discussion, as silence profits only scum.

For good or for bad is what it is. I doubt he'll flip as town, but even if he does, we'll learn new things. I see no problem with this statement in any way whatsoever, unless perhaps being lightly in doubt of your choices is a scummy thing. If so, you are being awfully indecisive now, too, painting various scenarios. In fact, you do it more extensively than I did with my single 'for good or for bad'.

Why do you hold it against me when you do something largely the same yourself?



Delta, bravo, you said something moderately cool.

[Deltaflyer]

Basically, as concisely as possible.

Okay:

1.Sopko began by being suspicious of both Laggy and Alex. Then focused exclusively on Laggy without being one Alex.

2.He slips off them onto the Mage Train, then only explains after being pressed for it.

3.He accuses Tonfa of long absences, and is then refuted. He is hypocritical here.

4.He simply states that he is 'irking' him. Sopko,

5.Does a list stating no real strong feelings, and the ones that are he puts down to 'gut feeling'

Sopko Questions:

On Tonfa, is it scum-irk or confused-irk?

On Alex/Lag, if one of them was hammered today, not you, what would be your view on the other? Gambit theory or Golden town? As they appear to be the extremes that you set out.

Why did you wait until pressured to state your reasons for Magevote?

Why did you attempt to accuse Tonfa of 'long absences'? Were you trying to draw attention away from yourself?

Why were you attempting to say that scummy townies is a good thing, when it obviously isnt. To me that seems like an excuse for your earlier scummy actions.

I had quotes to go with this, and answers to Bard/Yoshi posts. I might do them now or in morning. Just want to fire this post off and make sure of it.

[Yoshiken]

I wouldn't say this is a situation where we'll learn a lot if he flips Town, personally. Since the start of the day, pretty much everyone's been on him, and his contributions have been somewhat lacking, meaning we're not gonna get much of a read if he does flip Town. Which, as it happens, is the only reason I'm slightly reluctant to drop the hammer now - I'd much rather try to get some more discussion, but we're going nowhere with the current conversations. If I had a better read on a few other players -or- if it wasn't LYLO tomorrow if we lynch Town, I might be inclined to just ask for a roleclaim and then (probably) lynch.

Delta!Ninja: Pretty much clarification of the case, yeah. That second question there is interesting - I wouldn't mind seeing a few answers to that from other people as well.

[Deltaflyer]

He already claimed Vanilla Town.

H'okay. First off, since I'm -1. Vanilla town. I also was roleblocked last night apparantly.

[Deltaflyer]

Also, sorry for my outburst earlier. If a moderator or whatever would like to edit the swearing out or delete the post, that's cool.