[Day 3] Candystore Mafia, formerly Generic Boring Mafia

[Laggy]

That said, this day's... really not consisted of all that much.

You know I was trying to avoid using quotes at all costs this game but this really sums up how I feel about matters at this very moment.

The Soppy case is just... too damn easy as a train. And that is what bothers me more than anything else. In fact, with the way Bard's been responding and basically setting up his arguments and defenses before the flip even comes makes him start looking extra suspicious to me. He hasn't really been on any other case, the little spat with Tonfa is just so trivial. And now he's saying that the flip will be educational either way while still being absolutely adamant that Soppy will be scum. Reaaaaaally? Well, I'd be extremely interested in hearing Bard's thoughts tomorrow.

Alex too, while not as one-minded as Bard, has been pushing Soppy pretty hard the whole game. I find myself in agreement with Yoshi for once in that there's not a whole lot of discussion otherwise and this has the huge potential to bite town in the ass. And now Alex's getting on my case saying that I'm coasting and basically not inputting myself, like anyone who isn't obviously agreeing with the train's out of touch and looks scummy. Not liking that. It isn't so much that the case on Soppy isn't valid as how it's been set up to be potentially a free ride for scum. And if the case turns out to be a bust, we're facing LYLO tomorrow.

One thing remains true, though; none of this is going to be resolved without a flip. Unless Soppy or someone else has something to say on the matter, I'll go ahead and announce intent to hammer within the hour.

[Ranmilia]

Why do you hold it against me when you do something largely the same yourself?

Question...

In fact, you do it more extensively than I did with my single 'for good or for bad'.

Answer.

I'm gettin paranoid and thinking a lot of things out, you were all gung ho at the beginning of the day but now you're all "Oh yeah uh Soppy's probably scum but maybe not so for good or bad let's see what happens, but if he's town don't worry, we'll get information!"

Yeah I painted it a little there but I find it odd that you're kinda pedaling back.

Delta's questions and Yoshi's response are... welll... it's like they're not really following the game.  Delta's questions aren't really productive and have mostly been covered before and Yoshi... I'm not even sure how scummy that is here.  This is driving me crazy here having a game where there isn't someone really raising my hackles.  Except Soppy kind of is. 

Man, I almost want to go to Yoshi for that.  How do you miss Soppy roleclaiming AND declaration of intent to hammer AND people discussing imminent hammer?

Laggy ninjas me again.  Hammer within the hour is... fine with me, I need to stop second guessing and go with something and Soppy's the best bet.  Actually most of my thoughts at this point are "Who is Soppy's partner?" so...yeah.

[Yoshiken]

Laggy: I'd like to get some discussion out of people while we still can, even if that's just "Everyone who's alive talks for a bit longer, then we drop the hammer."
Because, as you've said, if we don't get anything here and Soppy flips Town, we'll be at something that'd closely represent a Day 1 LYLO - no clue as to who's what, with any mistakes seriously costing us.

Alex!Ninja: Huhwaitwhat? Where the hell did you read that in my post? I know people said they were going to hammer, and didn't even -mention- that in my post.
Second guessing isn't that big a problem when -there are still two Mafia-. You said yourself, you're wondering who his partner could be. I'd like to get some people talking while we've got people around to talk and see if we can actually find out.
Also, you're getting paranoid? Judging from that post, you're certain Sopko's Mafia and that would leave us with two days to catch the last Mafia. What's there to be paranoid -about- exactly?

[Laggy]

Yosh: Yeah, that was my intent, hence "within the hour" and not immediately. I think Soppy's still active right now, so I'm hoping at the very least to get another post from him.

[Ranmilia]

if it wasn't LYLO tomorrow if we lynch Town, I might be inclined to just ask for a roleclaim and then (probably) lynch.

Why would you post this when a roleclaim has already happened and a lynch is imminent?  The day's already passed that point.  It certainly makes it seem like you haven't even been reading. 

I'm NOT certain of Soppy being scum and I'm paranoid it's Delta/Yoshi.  Or something crazy like Tonfa/Laggy. (But if the latter is true we've probably lost already.)  Seems like every mini that comes up I lose to some pair like that where one was ambiguous and I never suspected the other.  At least El Cid isn't in this game.

[Hunter Sopko]

If my lynch helps town, then fine. As long as people don't just write off everything I've said. Alex, if you're town, continue playing as you have. If you're scum, the rest of town, please don't let him lead you around by your noses.

I'll admit that maybe my play hasn't been tops this game, but while metagaming is usually bad, Alex seeing me as scum with Bard, which he says is setting off the biggest alarm bells to him, would basically be me handing the game to town. It's way too convenient a scenario. I play a bad scum game, but give me a little credit.

Re: Delta- Don't talk hypocracy until you take a firm stance on anyone other than who is being trained at the moment. As per your questions, I thought my explanation for my switch to Mage was fine at the moment. When asked, I clarified it further. Nothing more to it than that. If Laggy was lynched and ended up scum, Alex would be my next target. If Alex was lynched and ended up scum, we would still be in the same boat as I described. Could go either way with Laggy. No, I honestly feel like Tonfa's been lurking, using being concise to hide real involvement. If he's scum, he's doing a very good job of lurking. Coming out when called, sitting back and being "concise" when not. I never said scummy townies are good. I said that I won't hesitate to bring forth an argument if I deem it prudent to do so and townies should never be afraid of this.

Before hammer, I would at least suggest people who've been on me the most (who haven't already done so) get their thoughts on who the most scummy person/people are other than me. That'd be Bard especially. Delta too.

[Yoshiken]

Yeah, the roleclaim (or, technically, lack thereof) was something I admittedly forgot about. Stupid mistake there. (Apparently I deleted the part where I blamed tiredness from my last post? Dammit. I -really- shouldn't play when tired, then. >_>)
As for saying I'd be happy to lynch, I'm just stating my intent. Sopko is far and away the most suspicious to me still, and I'd be happy to drop the hammer... if people spoke more.

Sopko Ninja! Finally, we have signs of life! Your lynch won't help town if you flip town. As for Alex, he's still high on my list of suspicion, and I'm gonna make sure to take a nice, long look over the rest of the topic in the morning to check a few things. His recent posts, at least, reek of WIFOM and wordplay, as opposed to finding actual scummy behaviour. Really doesn't ring well with me.

Bard.. Fairly sure he's gone already. Delta probably has too, I'm afraid. (That said, I'm guessing a quick read through Delta's list would help? Looks like it was Laggy/Bard there.)

[Deltaflyer]

Re: Delta- Don't talk hypocracy until you take a firm stance on anyone other than who is being trained at the moment.

Before hammer, I would at least suggest people who've been on me the most (who haven't already done so) get their thoughts on who the most scummy person/people are other than me. That'd be Bard especially. Delta too.

Firstly, I was outlining my stances on other people in that post that I lost, and seeing as it is now 2AM, this will be my last post of the day, most likely.

I dont know about Firm Stances, since I really -do- need sleep, but I'll be thinking it over until I fall asleep.

Sopko's last post is quite intresting to be honest. Im having second thoughts. Is it a convincing last stand or an honest post? I just don't know. Taking my vote off Sopko seems wrong, since my gut says yes but my brain says no. I really just don't know anymore. Sorry if this is a bad last day post, but I'll be better tommorow, or whenever the night ends or whatever.

Yoshininja'd.

Ah feck it. Sleep.

[Hunter Sopko]

Firstly, I was outlining my stances on other people in that post that I lost, and seeing as it is now 2AM, this will be my last post of the day, most likely.

I dont know about Firm Stances, since I really -do- need sleep, but I'll be thinking it over until I fall asleep.

Sopko's last post is quite intresting to be honest. Im having second thoughts. Is it a convincing last stand or an honest post? I just don't know. Taking my vote off Sopko seems wrong, since my gut says yes but my brain says no. I really just don't know anymore. Sorry if this is a bad last day post, but I'll be better tommorow, or whenever the night ends or whatever.

Yoshininja'd.

Ah feck it. Sleep.

...

Dear god, screw convictions. Not only does it completely ignore what I asked of him, it says absolutely nothing. If he had just not posted, that'd be one thing, but this is just willful anti-town behavior. Just posting to go "Hey, I saw! I'm active but am too lazy to help town!" at this point is just... argh.

##Unvote: Tonfa
##Vote: Delta

[Laggy]

I think it's painfully obvious nothing else productive will come out of this day.

##Unvote: Yoshiken, ##Vote: Soppy

[Carthrat]

Sopko (4): Bardiche, Tonfa, Delta, Laggy
Bardiche (0): Alex
Yoshiken (0): Laggy
Tonfa: (0) Sopko
Delta (1): Sopko


Hammer!

Sopko was lynched! He was VANILLA TOWN!

It is night 3, actions!

[Carthrat]

IT IS DAY THREE, POSSIBLY THE LAST DAY

TONFA, TOWN VOYEUR WATCHER, WAS CAUGHT PEEPING AND EXECUTED BY EVIL

It is LYNCH or be REDUCED TO YOUR COMPONENT CANDIES

1. Bardiche
4. Yoshiken
6. DELTAAAAAAAAAAA
7. Laggy
9. SirAlex

With 5 people alive, it takes three to go to the chocolate store.

You have 48 hours! Go! Fulfill your delicious destiny!

[Ranmilia]

Nuts

I am about to sleep and playing the heck out of the new Touhou game and really not in any coherent shape to analyze things right now, will have to wait till after sleep. 

HOWEVER

Claim time
I'm vanilla townie.  Sad day.

HOWEVER

We know from Soppy there is a roleblocker and even vanillas are told if they are blocked!  I was not blocked.  Was anyone else?

I wanna kneejerk Bard/Yoshi or Bard/Delta at this point but mrf.  Basically not considering Laggy, he's the most townish to me and I have to start somewhere today.  Mrf.

[Yoshiken]

Yeah, I'm not gonna be here for a good part of the day, I'm afraid. Got a friend's birthday later from about 7.30-3.30 (GMT, so starting in about 3 hours 30) and I'm gonna be sleeping when I get back from that... Also need to get ready, so... activity post here. And yeah, definitely claim time. Although this is somewhat confusing.

What -is- interesting is that our roleblocker seems to keep picking targets who don't have powers. Guess who got roleblocked yesterday~

I... yeah, like I said yesterday. Without extra discussion, I wasn't gonna have much of a clue today past "maybe Alex and/or Delta, but only maybe". Guess what? Not much more discussion after that yesterday.

Right. Seeing as I'm not gonna be around much for much of the first half of this day, my sole request is that we do -NOT- end this day early. I -will- be back, and I plan to make an extensive post looking into everyone in detail to see what the hell we can draw from this. There are 4 players other than me, and I know two are Mafia, it's just a 'simple' case of finding them. At this stage, though... Finger of Suspicion on Delta, primarily. The lost post isn't your fault. The fact that you seem to throw some light accusations around and then vote for whichever one everyone else is voting for -is-, however. We need an early post from Delta here to clarify -his- thoughts on the matter, not just reiterate everyone else's.

[Yoshiken]

Hmm. Apparently my Maths is quite awful. I somehow took 1400 as 4pm. Anyways, seeing as I've got a bit of spare time now, I'm gonna take a quick look through each potential scumteam. Expect a very long post from me soon~
(And, if you guys feel like adding some more stuff for me to comment on... y'know.. that'd be good. <3)

Also, I'd just like to say that I'm currently ruling out -nobody- completely. I'm strangely suspicious of a very well-played Bard/Laggy team here, and that's why I'm gonna go back and look at -each- possible team.

[Yoshiken]

Delta: Avoids commentary on SirLaggy hivemind for Day1. Day2... No read on Alex/Bard. Laggy is apparently more suspicious than Alex.

Laggy: Starts with vote on Delta because Delta. Day2: (scum first) Delta > Yoshi > Bard/Alex. Suspicion of Bard and (slightly) Alex builds at end Day2 due to SopkoTrain.

Alex: Starts with vote on Delta because Delta. Day1 case on him, he attributes to "I walked into Sopko's trap. Very suspicious of Bard from the start of Day2, comes off later in the day due to posting style. Can't read Delta for shit. End of Day2, apparently has next-to-no clue as to who's Mafia.

Bard: Suspicious of SirLaggy hivemind. Late Day2, suspicion of Delta grows -very- quickly.


There we go. That's my quick summary of everyone's interactions with each other over the last days.

Now here's something interesting. I know Alex said he trusts Laggy's Town, but Laggy seems to have changed his opinions quite quickly at several different points throughout this game. So, my question now is... Laggy, who do you actually see as Mafia now?
Bard, I'm also interested in hearing your views of Laggy/Alex. The hivemind seems to have broken down, and you said you were suspicious of it before, so.. what's your opinion on these two now?
And Delta... Okay, seriously? What the hell. We need opinions in general from you. Who do you see as the most Mafia-like and why? Preferably in some detail, and I'd prefer not to have a list post this time, methinks. (I don't mind the lists, but I'd definitely much prefer a specific argument at this stage.)

Triple-posting over the course of a few hours. Hopefully that'll make up for my absence during the active times. (Also, sorry about that guys, real-life and all that.)

[Laggy]

So!

Probably the first and only big post I will make this game. Apologies.

##Giant Shining FoS: Bardiche

For good or for bad is what it is. I doubt he'll flip as town, but even if he does, we'll learn new things.

As I have said (and Yoshi batted around earlier), I am most curious to hear Bard's thoughts on this right now. Because Bard currently leads the scumdar by leagues. The actions at the end of Day 2 were just beyond what.

Bard has pursued Soppy pretty much relentlessly since the start of Day 1. It's an all-out no-holds-barred aggro tactic, and if there's one thing you can't blame him for, it's being consistent in his reasoning. That is, until he starts backpedaling when I (and Yoshi) start mentioning that if the Soppy train goes bust on Day 2 we got a whole lot of nothin'. Alex has already somewhat called him out for doing this as well, but he never responded adequately. Things like

His lynch, for good or for bad, will teach us more about the other people, and in turn speculating about the scant possibilities of all others being scum is not going to be enlightening.

followed by

I doubt he'll flip as town, but even if he does, we'll learn new things. I see no problem with this statement in any way whatsoever, unless perhaps being lightly in doubt of your choices is a scummy thing.

I see problems. Just exactly what will we learn? Just exactly what HAVE we learned? At least Alex went into a fair degree of detail and speculation as to the possibilities we'd be facing tomorrow on Soppy's flip (albeit I was not exactly thrilled with the amount of detail on the scenario that actually happened.) Bard basically handwaves this, insinuates SOPPY'S FLIP WILL BE ENLIGHTENING and ... elaborates no further. Yeah, this argument could've worked for Day 1 when there was absolutely zilch else to go on.

And then Bard claims he's not having tunnel vision, having done a weak jab at Tonfa (who flipped town) and then Delta, backing up and trying to not look as bad if Soppy, in fact, doesn't end up being scum. It is convenient that Soppy's last line is a call-out to those biggest on his case to voice their suspicions on non-Soppy people, making me half-wish I had waited for Bard to get back on and reply. Ah well. Now he can do that.

Now, how does this look to scumBard? On Day 1, Bard was remarkable in that he actually stayed out of the obvious Mage train and kept on Soppy; on Day 2 he capitalized on this (on what I felt was a poor case and argument, as opposed to Tonfa's which actually convinced me to look harder at Soppy). In return he doesn't really have to voice his thoughts on anyone else and in fact complained about being requested to do so. In fact he really could've pulled the "aggro but misguided townie" card well (convinced Soppy even) as a defense if he hadn't pulled that stunt at the end of the day. And it gets us into LYLO.

As far as potential scumBard partners and everyone else goes...

Alex: His poke at Bard at Day 2 end (along with me) is what raises him the most in my eyes to not being scumBard's buddy. Unlike Bard, I find his arguments to be convincing (like Alex normally is) and he actually looks at other people while remaining focused on being productive. He did accuse me of coasting and my jab back at him was more in response to that than any real criticism, but he wasn't nearly as narrow-minded about Soppy as Bard was.

Yoshi: Agreed with me about how the Day 2 trainwreck was possibly running afoul, the first thing I think we've agreed on the entire game. I still think he needs to go after people harder, but he's been active enough that I'm willing to chalk this up in just playstyle difference. Find it hard to see him partnered with Bard, since their playstyles are so opposing.

Delta: The obvious scumbuddy partner, which leads me into a perpetual state of WIFOM. The guy's lay-back-and-fire-lists posts just rubs me absolutely the wrong way, and he takes easy obvious stances... they're bad by itself, but it provided Bard an excuse to raise his hackles at Delta (possibly in an attempt to build cred?) and a way out when Soppy inevitably flips town and gives him a Day 3 lynch possibility. Getting on Delta's case is valid, but that's awful convenient.

Yeah I can definitely see Bard/Delta. Can't really see Bard/Yoshi. Bard/Alex is somewhere in the middle but it would basically mean Alex told his scumbuddy to go hang and NOT stop him from catching himself from end of Day 2 slipup. Somehow I can't see Alex doing that.

Non-Bard possibilities are just an enigma to me. Delta/Yoshi, Delta/Alex, Yoshi/Alex... well Delta is a giant cluster of wtf so the first two are in that field of "yes this could happen but hell if I can pin it down" and, given the interaction between the two, not really buying into the third one. So, yes, this roughly correlates to a suspicion scale of Bard > Delta > Alex/Yoshi.

[Laggy]

Also in the midst of that I read backlog again and totally forgot to claim.

Unfortunately, I am an unexciting (non-French) Vanilla Townie.

[Yoshiken]

See, this is usually the stage of Mafia where Delta's list posts come in really handy - he comments on everyone, not just the lynchtrain, making it quite easy to see where he's stood with everyone left. Except... this game, it's just been a lot of "I'll comment later" on all of those. I'm definitely seeing Bard/Delta as possible, although I'd like to hear their defences (re: roleclaims) and answers to the previous questions before I start pushing that through.
If previous games have taught me anything, it's that I should remain suspicious of everyone, though. I'm sort of considering an Alex/Bard team and... that push against Bard doesn't really tell me much, because by the end of the day, he was saying he was "paranoid it's Delta/Yoshi.  Or something crazy like Tonfa/Laggy." As far as I could tell, his Day2 end came down to "Kill Sopko!" (although not quite as much as Bard's did.)

[Yoshiken]

And that's me gone for the next 18 hours, at least, I'm afraid. Hopefully I'll return to enough conversation to generate an actual idea. ;_; *hates that he's here while everyone except him & Laggy is gone, but will be gone while everyone else is here*

[Ranmilia]

Back for just a brief moment, then heading out for a while.

If Bard and Delta don't claim to be roleblocked I'm willing to accept that as proof of Yoshi's towniness, I really don't think scum would try to pull a gambit by not using it when no power roles had flipped before Tonfa. 

So that narrows it to Bard/Delta for me - Laggy may be scum but I can't build a better case on him than one of them, and even if he is, one of those two is scum with him. 

But Bard and Delta aren't here so uh yeah.  Out till evening, laters.

[Carthrat]

Votecount..

..nobody's voting!

34 hours remaining!

[Yoshiken]

Okay... Seriously? I expected more than -one- post while I was gone. We're getting nowhere at all at this rate, and really need Bard/Delta to post. A post a day tends to suffice on earlier days, but not really at this stage, I'm afraid.

[Carthrat]

Votecount...

...you all suck!

26 hours remaining.

[Deltaflyer]

My role is Vanilla Townie.

Current status on events:

Bardiche: He is pinging quite a few scumdars, based on a re-read of the thread. Page 4:

What? So uh, I need to look at people other than Sopko?Well, yeah. Obviously.

Making a list is worthless, but alright, let's see what I think of others.

I'm slightly wary of Laggy/Alex. Not because of their content, because I find their participation to be solid and benevolent. But the fact they keep hiveminding/ninjaposting eachother? >_> It's just too coincidental and things that are coincidental deserve scrutiny. Otherwise neither strike me particularly as people I want to pursue as possible scum.See third Bold.

Delta is like he always is. Nothing he says is new to me, and overall while he's trying to be of use he doesn't bring anything new to the table. This is nothing different from his usual conduit. I get why people want to lynch him, but I have never-ending faith in people not screwing up constantly.Trying to buddy up here?

Actually, the only other person I'm specifically wary of other than Sopko is Tonfa. I'm afraid I can't really explain my suspicions for Tonfa rationally, but he rubs me the wrong way in that it seems he's... not really presenting new cases? He jumps on Sopko when I did, and jumped on Magetastic when everyone else did. His only other vote was a prod vote on Sopko Day 1, then an ultimate switch for hammer on Mage?Ah, so this is everyone else, and you claim not to be tunnel visioned.

I'm not a massive proponent of lists as all it does is usually provide various shades of "I don't distrust these people" making up most the members and "I distrust these people". Here, you appear to simply be deflecting an arguement made by Yoshi. You state that you dislike lists as an excuse for tunnel-visioning. It's just as well they tunnel-visioned, because in the end there's just about no one you can trust unless you have specific roles. We're not getting into that discussion though.

Also, he attempts to counter my thoughts against him by explaining what I mean:

Deltaflyer, what are you trying to get at with your paragraph re: me? You're climbing my ladder of suspicion at a very rapid pace, and unless you're volunteering yourself to be the next lynch target, I suggest you start making sense.
All your bit about me does is parroting Alex, accusing me of looking only at Sopko.

This remains to be untrue. I've voiced my suspicions of Tonfa, I simply see no reason to deviate from my present course since I feel Sopko is scummiest among those alive today. His lynch, for good or for bad, will teach us more about the other people, and in turn speculating about the scant possibilities of all others being scum is not going to be enlightening. There has not been much material to work with today, or the day before. I grasp what reaches out to me most strongly.

Deltaflyer. Please provide your thoughts, rather than quoting others and banking off of what they have said. You are painting yourself a grim future like this.

I'll quote it again:

What? So uh, I need to look at people other than Sopko?Well, yeah. Obviously.

Making a list is worthless, but alright, let's see what I think of others.

I'm slightly wary of Laggy/Alex. Not because of their content, because I find their participation to be solid and benevolent. But the fact they keep hiveminding/ninjaposting eachother? >_> It's just too coincidental and things that are coincidental deserve scrutiny. Otherwise neither strike me particularly as people I want to pursue as possible scum.
Actually, the only other person I'm specifically wary of other than Sopko is Tonfa. I'm afraid I can't really explain my suspicions for Tonfa rationally, but he rubs me the wrong way in that it seems he's... not really presenting new cases? He jumps on Sopko when I did, and jumped on Magetastic when everyone else did. His only other vote was a prod vote on Sopko Day 1, then an ultimate switch for hammer on Mage?

You state that making a list is worthless, and then proceed to do it anyway. What? You say that you have voiced your suspicions of Tonfa. However, your suspicions are simply feelings.

I'm afraid I can't really explain my suspicions for Tonfa rationally, but he rubs me the wrong way

What? You think that is a suspicion? Where was your evidence of a suspicion, hmm? You stated that he wasnt makng new cases. No, but he contributed lots, and he provided different views on said cases. I am really suspicious of you now though. However, I am nervous incase these signs are bad townie play. Of course, one misplaced vote and scum could both jump on the bandwagon and win. Holding my vote for now, but seconding Laggy in ##FoS:Bardiche

Ive done enough lists. Here's my suspicion.