[Day 3] Candystore Mafia, formerly Generic Boring Mafia

[Bardiche]

So, I was gone for a day yesterday. Sorry, I had not thought the new dawn would break as early as this.

Vanilla town. No surprises here. With the exception of Yoshiken, everyone has claimed Vanilla now. Granted, Yoshi implied things, but he never outright says he is a roleblocked Vanilla town.

--->

People racking up suspicion on me (or, more accurately, acting on their earlier suspicions) was rather expected for the day. If Sopko failed to be scum, I expected this, especially because people (read: Alex) were already trying to tie me to Sopko as being a member of scum, or otherwise as this. You've been stubbornly suspicious of me, and yet supported the lynch of Sopko I propagated.

Laggy, you're inconsistent.

Bard doesn't just rehash what he's been gunning on Soppy, so I don't find him particularly scummy for doing so. The fact that everyone is more or less agreeing that Soppy looks bad only supports this.

You've seem to have gone back on this. Whatever, I'll live with it.

I am curious how I went from 'neutral' to 'highest scum possible!!', though.

--->

Deltaflyer, your above post is worthless yet again. Can you stop jumping on bandwagons as you've done Day 1 and 2 both?

Stating I am 'trynig to buddy up' with you is laughable at best, because your play has been textbook 'unsupportive of town' play. You've done nothing to aid the town effort to hunt scum, jumping only on convenient cases others were on while propagating that everyone else is "not scummy".

If you're town, you're worthless. If you're scum, you've been banking on the fact that everyone auto-assumes you're worthless at scumhunting. Construing my sentiment that your play should improve over time and wanting to give you the chance to prove that as a 'buddy up' attempt is the final straw that makes me stop wanting to give you chances.

--->

As far as the rest; Yes, I've made a mistake on Sopko. This is apparent, but the majority agreed with me so I doubt you'll fault me for that mistake.

Regardless, it seems I've made too big a mistake to correct so easily. I have, however, no intention to hang today, as that would definitely cost town the win.

Yoshiken:

Bard, I'm also interested in hearing your views of Laggy/Alex. The hivemind seems to have broken down, and you said you were suspicious of it before, so.. what's your opinion on these two now?

I remain of the belief that the hivemind itself was just so damn coincidental it deserves scrutiny, but neither feel as particular scum to me. I'm more willing to buy that Laggy is scum than Alex.

--->

To summarise what we can glean from Sopko's lynch:

- There's definitely a roleblocker.
- Interaction with Sopko to see who is genuinely accusing him of being scum (HINT: ME), and who are jumping on a convenient bandwagon (HINT: DELTAFLYER)

Hell, I'd have hoped there to be more, but we can now look at interaction data more extensively than from Day 1 and find something there.

With Sopko not being scum, I must admit I am slightly off-balance now, but I am leaning in Deltaflyer's direction as a possible scum, with Laggy/Yoshiken tailing behind the ladder of suspicion and Alex being bottom.

[Deltaflyer]

If I am jumping on a convienient bandwagon, then why haven't I voted, and why have I provided my thoughts and arguement against you like that? (same as I would have done with Sopko, had the post not been lost.

[Bardiche]

Are you being serious with that question? Because the answer seems to be elementary: because that's the game. If you hadn't posted thoughts and arguments you would be too obviously jumping on a bandwagon. You've re-used arguments others have used, or used non-arguments to lynch someone. There are far better things to use to jump against me other than 'HEY HE SAYS HE WASN'T TUNNEL VISIONING BUT I THINK HE IS'.

If that is honestly the biggest scumtell you can come up with on Day 3, I'm sorely disappointed in you as town.

Tell me then, how are your 'cases' on Magetastic, Sopko and now me not convenient bandwagons?

Imagine me as not being an option, who of Alex, Yoshiken and Laggy would you think to be the scum, and who would you vote on? If ever there was a time to write lists, now is that time, because a misstep will cost town victory. Prove to me you are town and start being constructive to the scumhunt effort. Jumping on Laggy/Alex's suspicions does not constitute being constructive.

[Laggy]

Laggy, you're inconsistent.

Bard doesn't just rehash what he's been gunning on Soppy, so I don't find him particularly scummy for doing so. The fact that everyone is more or less agreeing that Soppy looks bad only supports this.

You've seem to have gone back on this. Whatever, I'll live with it.

I am curious how I went from 'neutral' to 'highest scum possible!!', though.

Um. Did you not read my post at all?

Your case on Soppy in general was never the issue, and it's why you stayed neutral throughout the game all this time. But those last Day 2 posts just completely don't sound like they're coming from a townie who, up to that point, was crusading the virtues of sticking to one case you strongly believed in. There are pros and cons to that approach and I'm not getting into a playstyle argument on Day 3 but what set off alarm bells was your inconsistency. Going from "I am confident Sopko is scum, and that is why I am focusing entirely on him!" to "Yeah look Soppy's flip is going to be educational either way for better or worse" looks waaaay too defensive for someone whose pressed case looked dead certain for the entire day, and out of character for you.

Why did you feel the need to backpedal there?

Your Day 3 post consists of varying "Look you can't get on my case because you agreed with me about Soppy" when really, that wasn't my objection at all. It was your inconsistency about the whole ordeal. Then you voice suspicion on Delta again (again, justified, but thoroughly convenient - a barrel of WIFOM he is), vaguely think I am scummier than Alex and list pretty much no reasons. Hmm.

Re: Delta's last line. Um... I really have no words there. Ayup.

[Bardiche]

Why did you feel the need to backpedal there?

I can't say Sopko's last moments did not make me a little uncertain.

[Laggy]

Yeah, see, the issue I have is that the way those posts were made... they don't read like that at all. They look much more like "Here, I am actually going to accuse some people not named Soppy and then praise the benefits of lynching someone regardless of what alignment they flip for educational purposes". This looks incredibly convenient as a followup to Day 3 after Soppy, y'know, flips town. Especially since you hardly could have been the only one that read off Soppy's last posts looking more and more like a sincere townie's last words (hell, even Delta mentioned that! Yoshi and I mentioned it!)

Kinda makes me wonder why if you felt uncertain, you didn't just say you were feeling uncertain... and follow it up with a "but, even so, I think Soppy's lynch is the best thing to do today because..." The likelihood of it happening at that point of the day was all but certain. Tonfa was completely on the case, and Alex was being pretty strong about it too. There had been little discussion about anything else the entire day. Instead, you seemed to avoid, as much as possible, actually implying that you had any doubts about the Soppycase seemingly out of fear that there was the slightest possibility the train could be moved, and used superficial flips-are-good lines. That state of cautious in-between is what's pinging my scumdar here.

[Bardiche]

Wishy-washiness in Mafiagames cost me my head before; I wanted to exercise caution with my doubts this time, and was still more convinced he was scum than I was worried he could be town.

Others were saying that day, "Hey, I think Bard/Sopko scumteam is likely!", "Oh, Bard is suspicious!" In a case where the train could still head my way, why should I not ensure it does not likely go that way? Especially given that I still mostly expected Sopko to flip scum, I felt it would make the battle easier on Day 3 than it would've been Day 2.

[Ranmilia]

Awake again.

So what we got.

- Yoshi:  Still Yoshi, still newbie, but is sane given that, and claimed roleblocked.  Gonna say town on him. 
- Laggy:  A little passive for my tastes, but the main reason I think that is because he didn't aggressively press Soppy.  Which... likely would have been overkill given the situation.  He HAS been asking people to contribute, and been generally level-headed.

- Bard and Delta.  These two are definitely my main suspicions.  And...  Delta is actually making a coherent case on Bard (the obvious one, but still), while Bard is making a case on *no one* and only defending himself.  I have to say that's not really what I expected to wake up to, I was hoping/expecting both of them to be really scummy so I could sigh in relief.  It seems like everyone is on Bard here, so either he's scum and his buddy is bussing him, or the scumteam is 2/3 of Yoshi/Laggy/Delta.  I guess I could see Laggy/Delta but... I could see a bus from anyone at this point too, even Delta/Bard.

Fact of the matter is, though, Bard shutting down and having no case while Delta of all people does?  Makes this an easy call for me.  I was inches away from voting Bard yesterday and am now really regretting not having gone with my gut then.  See my previous thought experiment post.

Huge FoS Bard and declaration of willingness to vote him.  I'll wait a few hours for more posts if anyone has more to add, though.

[Yoshiken]

Okay, I'm at a friend's house, so won't be able to get on often tonight, I'm afraid. I'll try to get on at least twice more tonight if I can, just so we can actually get some stuff done.

Firstly, Bard, I think I implied strongly enough that I'm Vanilla Townie and was roleblocked yesterday. If you need clarification: I am Vanilla Town, I was roleblocked last night.

Bard, you're definitely not in a good position here. You've suggested Delta as the prime suspect, with your only reasoning being that he's been hopping onto previous lynchtrains. Yet, as has been said several times, the majority of those left were in favour of both Mage & Sopko lynches, so I'm really not surprised to see this. It doesn't come across well that he's not trying to present any new cases, but at the same time, it's not as suspicious as you see to be making it seem.  Is there some other reason you think Delta's our prime suspect?

I'm still reluctant to cast a vote now, solely because of the LYLO situation. Alex has definitely looked much better in my eyes these last couple of days, and is now the most likely Town to me, with Laggy as a second behind him. However, Laggy's concise nature is not helpful at this point - Laggy, I'd like to know your current views on the other players here, and also if you actually think Bard is particularly Mafia-like, or if he's just the most likely of the remaining players at this stage.

FoS remains on Bard, but I'm not voting right yet, not in a situation like this.

[Laggy]

Uh, didn't I in the only big post I made this game?

As far as potential scumBard partners and everyone else goes...

Alex: His poke at Bard at Day 2 end (along with me) is what raises him the most in my eyes to not being scumBard's buddy. Unlike Bard, I find his arguments to be convincing (like Alex normally is) and he actually looks at other people while remaining focused on being productive. He did accuse me of coasting and my jab back at him was more in response to that than any real criticism, but he wasn't nearly as narrow-minded about Soppy as Bard was.

Yoshi: Agreed with me about how the Day 2 trainwreck was possibly running afoul, the first thing I think we've agreed on the entire game. I still think he needs to go after people harder, but he's been active enough that I'm willing to chalk this up in just playstyle difference. Find it hard to see him partnered with Bard, since their playstyles are so opposing.

Delta: The obvious scumbuddy partner, which leads me into a perpetual state of WIFOM. The guy's lay-back-and-fire-lists posts just rubs me absolutely the wrong way, and he takes easy obvious stances... they're bad by itself, but it provided Bard an excuse to raise his hackles at Delta (possibly in an attempt to build cred?) and a way out when Soppy inevitably flips town and gives him a Day 3 lynch possibility. Getting on Delta's case is valid, but that's awful convenient.

\

[Laggy]

As far as my certainty as to Bard being scum - it's possible he really is just a superaggro townie that went completely off the wrong way, and because of his poor judgment is now shaping up to look really bad. I would have bought into this more if I still wasn't irked majorly by Day 2's events, and his responses have done little to ease me of my concerns in that regard.

I presume your inquiry about "is Bard being Mafia-like or do you think he is scum" is actually asking "do you think Bard is being a bad townie or scum", because the first question is slightly oxymoronic. The answer is that both are certainly possible, but you can't excuse bad townie-behavior forever, or else scum will just ride on it by acting detrimental to town and pulling that card. Otherwise uh we would be lynching Delta right now who has consistently looked scummy and given relatively poor contribution the entire game. But he doesn't have that one, singular issue that jumped out at me like Bard's behavior did.

At this point I feel more confident about Bard being scum than taking the crapshoot with Delta, in all essence, unless another really compelling case comes out that isn't just going over old territory.

[Laggy]

*wouldn't be lynching Delta. I can type today.

[Yoshiken]

What I asked was if he looks Mafia-like or if he's just the worst of the available cases. So, not so much "Is he scum or just bad townie?" but more "Is he scum or just the scummiest of a non-scumlike group?" I'm guessing it's the former, though, judging from your response.


Alright. If nothing else, I'm fairly sure we're agreed that Bard's gonna be our eventual target in all of this. Unless he does something to convince me he's Town (or someone convinces me not to), my next post (when I next come back to check) will almost certainly be a vote.

[Ranmilia]

I have... nothing more to say to that, no.

[Ranmilia]

Actually we're all just going around with the "I'm going to vote Bard but not yet" and nothing is changing so... I'll go ahead and do it.

##Vote: Bardiche

[Bardiche]

Eh, guess that's it then. With entiriety of the remainer fine with voting me, I see little possibility of making a desperation call to turn the tides.

I'm going to weep if Delta turns out to be scum, though. >_>

[Laggy]

Well.

If you know you are town and basically are saying "okay lynch me already" in LYLO then um. Yeah.

##Vote: Bardiche

[Yoshiken]

Alright, yeah, my net was down for a while there. I'm gonna slap myself if it turns out Alex was Mafia the entire time, but...

##Vote: Bardiche

[Carthrat]

SCUM WINS

IT WAS LAGGYALEX

BAD LUCK

[Carthrat]

Laggy- Roleblocker
Alex - Vanilla Scum
Tonfa - Town Watcher

Everyone else - Vanilla town

Tonfa watched Laggy and then Bardiche and then died.
Laggy blocked Sopko and then Yoshi.

[Laggy]

[09:13] <RichardHawk> hey
[09:13] <RichardHawk> hey
[09:13] <RichardHawk> hey
[09:13] <RichardHawk> SCREW YOU

[Bardiche]

Well done. The hivemind thing made me think, "That could be an elaborate scumploy!" then I thought it was too obvious. When Alex tossed that first vote down I expected he was scum, but uhhh, yeah, I gave up there since I had to fight DELTAFLYER LOGIC.

[Ranmilia]

Good game, fun times.  We did buddy gambit, it worked pretty well, mostly because this game had a lot of new players (and we were able to buy a lot of town cred on the cheap by helping them out with basic gameplay.)  

I think we could have pulled it out even without that, though - the real turning point of the game was when we woke up on day 2 to see Bard and Tonfa attacking Soppy and Soppy getting distracted from me to fire back at Tonfa.  Rest of the game was coasting that three way town feud to victory.

Knowing there was a watcher now has me terrified in retrospect - Excal is scary enough to almost always be the first nightkill in DL games, and had Tonfa watched him.... well.

For the newer players, you might be thinking "Awww man I need to be more suspicious of buddy gambits!"  but in fact the real way to find us out would be by noticing that neither I nor Laggy really took any hard stances all game.  Especially day 2.

[Tonfa]

Too bad I don't know DL mafia metagame, thus didn't watch Excal.

I was keeping an eye on Laggy/Alex interactions but thought to save criminal analysis of it for day 3. >_> Yeah. Went for the two scummiest people on days 1 and 2, plain and simple - Mislynches aren't fatal. Town not posting or making cases on the final day is.

[Shale]

The real problem is that when Excal dies night 1, the proper solution in the DL metagame is to lynch Ciato. But she wasn't playing! Clearly, the scum thought of everything.