Author Topic: [Game Over] Worms Armageddon Mafia  (Read 60264 times)

Ranmilia

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #175 on: August 23, 2009, 06:20:41 AM »
Not to answer for Kilga, but he DID replace in rather late in the day.  I like him better than the other people who wanted to (or did) vote me.  Definitely seconding comments on the Excal train -  I count myself and Soppy as legit votes on him, and then wham,  I wake up and he's lynched.  Mystery.

Kilgamayan

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #176 on: August 23, 2009, 07:43:22 AM »
I can see the case on Bard and agree with it for the most part. Bandwagon-hopping is certainly a severe no-no. The one thing that gives me pause, however, is how, with the way Page 4 played out, ScumBard heavily suggests ScumTonfa, and I don't think I'm ready to believe that. As such, Bard stays below Yoshi for me.

---

On Glen: Coaching is a problem? I'd rather see him re-read the topic and make a helpful contribution than play badly.

And I'd rather see him re-read the topic and make a helpful (even if misguided) contribution than just blindly follow directions. Telling a newbie what to do and then watching them go "Okay!" and doing it tells us nothing about them and doesn't give us many meaningful opinions.

On Tonfa: That was "He's still suspicious, but not as much." I figured I didn't need to spell everything out for it to be understood, though.

This boils down to non-commitment because it allows you to escape the Tonfa dilemma in whichever direction is more convenient for you.

On Alex: So, him not reading the topic = him not helping Town = bad reasoning? Uhh. Sorry, but not Town means one thing and one thing only.

Where did you get the idea that he was not reading the topic? He said several topic-relevant things. I don't see how this absolves the chain of "Yoshi votes Alex for not contributing" -> "Alex contributes opinions" -> "Yoshi doesn't move his vote" either.

Now, if you'd kindly read my post just before yours... 10x ninja before deadline as I was posting, I was about to flip my vote over.

Easy excuse. Glen's switch to Tonfa with about a half hour to go (which could use a spotlight or two given the awful awful reasoning that accompanied it btw) basically sealed the Alex train, and the only reason I didn't move immediately was because I wasn't done discussing it. What was stopping you from dropping the post you were working on and blurting something out in the last 30 minutes?

And I doubt my current vote on Alex is going to be problematic with 7 to lynch, so I'd rather have my vote in place now than be accused of jumping onto a train.

What train would you be accused of jumping on? You were the first freakin' post of Day 2 and everyone saw you end Day 1 with your vote on Alex so no one would hold a Day 2 Bandwagon charge against you if you continued down that path (Day 1 Bandwagon charges are a different story).

---

Still want Soppy to address this. It's a minor concern but it's still a concern.

Are we reading the same post? To me, it looks like he's saying "Well, it would've looked bad if I changed my vote, but I did it anyway." Which.. was what I was saying at the time.

Who did he change it to that wasn't Rat or Excal? I'm not seeing anything in the vote-count until his 30-minutes-to-go flop onto Tonfa, which was well after your post. Are you completely missing the "changing my case from either of you to someone else" part or what? (Bolding mine, it's in reference to Rat and Excal). It says that he's afraid to switch off of both Rat and Excal to pursue someone not named Rat or Excal.

---

Kilga leaps out as the most suspicious there. Really now, pressure voting Alex at dayend? Did you really think he was the most lynchworthy candidate if the whole time you're going "ready to switch at any second", you left it really late, given the way things were going.

I left the switch as late as I did because I was hoping for further discussion about why I was voting Alex since multiple other people misunderstood me and (possibly even a vote or two). I didn't get anything outside of Xanth's one-liner, and thus the switch.

In terms of feeling him as the most lynchworthy candidate, as much as I hate to hide behind replacing in, I couldn't really get a feel for how the first 4 pages had really played out since I popped up and holy shit Wall of Text Level 30. With a ton of reading in front of me and not a whole lot of time left in the day, I fell back onto concrete things I felt comfortable arguing - Alex's lack of decent explanation for his votes, and, later, Excal not mentioning Tonfa once before voting him and then not explaining the vote afterward. So, while I realized there may very well have been better cases available to me, I knew I wouldn't have been able to argue them as well as I could argue the ones I did.

This is why I didn't pursue Alex further today - I now have a couple of trains, two flips and some experience with the flow of the topic to work with.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Alice

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #177 on: August 23, 2009, 08:20:09 AM »
Pretty exhausted right now and after Firefucks just decided to swallow the reply I was working on I'm kind of annoyed and will finish typing that up after I get some actual sleep. What I do want to do is clarify at the day's end: how am I supposed to somehow communicate with Kilga to move to Glen when deadline is approaching in like 10 minutes? My options were either to stay on Glen and hope Kilga read my post in the five minutes before the deadline hit, or switch to one of the two active wagons that day, and I had a slight preference to Excal over Tonfa. Granted, both of the Excal AND Tonfa trains seemed a bit weird, and closer reading is warranted for both. Bleh.

Smodge13

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #178 on: August 23, 2009, 01:06:01 PM »
Day 2,
Read the whole thread several times and no clue where to begin.

wait yes i do
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=3833.msg72263#msg72263

##Vote Yoshi

Yoshi first you begin the hard push against Tonfa for his comment on bad players not helping in lylo, and you later place a vote on him after glen posts as glen seemed "less suspicious" to you.

However we then have
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=3833.msg72263#msg72263

your vote against Alex for not posting and not contributing.

Explain how is it scummy to vote a bad player if there are no other cases
yet not scummy when you vote Alex when there is cases and all he does is say he's not going to contribute (he does if you read over the text there isn't much but he does at least contribute)

Throwing this out now have a fair bit more to type still.
Have to go to work will post alot more a in 5 hours or so while at work.

Smodge13

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #179 on: August 23, 2009, 01:07:02 PM »
Forgot to bold it
##Vote: Yoshi
just in case mod didnt see it

Carthrat

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #180 on: August 23, 2009, 01:22:21 PM »
I get that replacement could've had something to do with it, but there's no way to distinguish "I was in anguish over my choices" with "I was waiting to see what should be done," and it's kinda frustrating. I don't really see how Excal could look worse than Tonfa at a cursory glance, apart from possibly the fact that he was actually there to look at in the second half of the day. Checking back, he did actually give a reason for his vote, although since it wasn't really borne of thinking someone is scum, it's pretty easy to discount. Hmm.

I don't like the emphasis Kilga has on one thing, actually, it's kinda been a theme and I'm seeing it in his last post as well. If someone hasn't contributed opinions, and you poke them, and then they do... does that absolve them of their earlier failure to participate? If so, what was the point of voting them in the first place, really, when you aren't actually making a judgement on their scumminess? What's going on there is not scumhunting, it's the appearance of putting pressure on people. It's way more telling to let people go on their own way and see what they do when people aren't badgering them every second to contribute something; finding out what they try to accomplish on their own is heaps more helpful in determining alignment.

Not saying that you shouldn't question people, you can and should- but if you call someone out for what amounts to lurking, they shouldn't be able to just instantly de-lurk and reclaim credit unless they something really cool.

It's not just Kilga who's done this though, most obvious other candidate for doing that is Yoshi. I mean-

Quote from: Kilga
I don't see how this absolves the chain of "Yoshi votes Alex for not contributing" -> "Alex contributes opinions" -> "Yoshi doesn't move his vote" either.

This line is what triggered my whole above rant, but judging by Yoshi's earlier post today he does indeed seem to think it's a viable way to go about lynching people. It's really not. It's unlikely both Kilga and Yoshi are scum given what's going on today, but this reasoning screams badness.

Alex... I'm concuring with Kilga on him being a lazy bastard on day one, was kinda expecting him to only start really trying after that. His vote on Excal is a bit scummy, and I'm having trouble taking him seriously when he goes 'but I woke up and wowed at his lynch'. The train was odd, but I do have to wonder if he had any expectations of his vote taking hold when he placed it. Given the scarcity of his posts, I doubt it.

I'm not seeing the inherent scumminess in Bard's switching, although he's kind of a hypocrite (he managed it twice, it's hilarious, he swung at Alex for 'only having three serious posts' when the same thing was true of him, down to the number). Don't think that's horrible enough to warrant a vote.

Lots of the game isn't actually around or saying who they think is scummy. Day's almost half over. What's going on?

NINJA SMODGE, with that line of questioning there... Are you voting yoshi because he said it's scummy to vote for bad players on the grounds of badness, and then did the same thing by voting for.. Alex? Insinuating that Alex is bad? ummmmmmm please explain this, I'm lost.
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Magetastic

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #181 on: August 23, 2009, 02:07:23 PM »
##Unvote

##Vote Kilga


Looking back on it, Kilga went from having no read on the Excal train

Quote
Excal's arguments have seemed clearly defined to me. Do you (or anyone else since you're not actually voting for him) have concrete examples of this "sloppiness"?

To this.

Quote
Okay I can see that argument against Excal a bit more. I would understand Excal's position if he had ever actually said what made the Baton look less good in his eyes than Glen, but...he didn't, so.

And what changed his mind? Well, nobody addressed his question before this, and it was purely Alice and Glen there, Alice saying Kilga's vote was crap, and Glen flopping over onto Excal train. (Which, on re-read, is seriously giving me the heeby-jeebies) And then Kilga continues by playing the safe card and saying he'll vote for either Glen or Excal. (also saying he'll actively vote against a Tonfa lynch, which sticks out to me, though that means nothing when we don't know what Tonfa is) On re-read, though, this really bugs me, especially after his goings on about Excal.

Quote
Xanth: That's still a problem. Finding scum is only half the game, the other half is communicating it. Alex being vague in his accusations does not help anyone and only makes him look bad.

Time is short, though, so:

##Unvote: SirAlex
##Vote: Excal

Will switch to Glen at the last second if Excal doesn't get enough votes to overtake Tonfa

Note that when he says 'time is short' he votes for the only other person in the minority train, and that he's gone from having no case to having case enough to push a lynch on Excal? Hmm.


Well, kids, that's all the time I have for today. Going on a trip to see step-family. Will hopefully be back tonight, so I can post either in the night or morning, but if not, uhm, yeah. Won't be back in time to post before deadline I don't think. I'll try to sneak on if I can though.
<%King_Meepdorah> roll 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"?
* +Hatbot --> "King_Meepdorah rolls 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"? and gets 999."12 [1d999=999]
<%King_Meepdorah> ...
<+superaway> ...Uh oh.
<+RandomConsonant> ...
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Magetastic

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #182 on: August 23, 2009, 03:19:26 PM »
Turns out I actually have 2-3 hours left before I leave. And even then, it's only for the day.
<%King_Meepdorah> roll 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"?
* +Hatbot --> "King_Meepdorah rolls 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"? and gets 999."12 [1d999=999]
<%King_Meepdorah> ...
<+superaway> ...Uh oh.
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Smodge13

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2009, 03:28:25 PM »
First of all to answer Rats Q
NINJA SMODGE, with that line of questioning there... Are you voting yoshi because he said it's scummy to vote for bad players on the grounds of badness, and then did the same thing by voting for.. Alex? Insinuating that Alex is bad? ummmmmmm please explain this, I'm lost.
I'm not insinuating Alex is bad.
More his action of not taking part and saying he won't take part is considered bad town.

So on one hand Yoshi votes Tonfa for voting bad town
but then votes for someone based on bad town play

This combined with earlier Case day 1 is reason for the vote.

Now To Addresss something else
Mage Kilga stated Earlier he would Vote AGAINST the Tonfa train, his switch from Alex to Excal pushed Excal and Tonfa to a tie which was doing exactly what he said he would.

Now looking at glen there is one thing i have realised, although it seemed like he was newbtown the one thing that gets to me, generally newbtown when pressured OMGus and get distracted defending themselves, yet Glen still contributed (if only minorly)
Also throughtout his posts you see him mention minor suspicion of Tonfa and how the Tonfa case is interesting but he never elaborates on this.
Finally what sticks out to me most
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=3833.msg72159#msg72159
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=3833.msg72189#msg72189
It may be nothing but glen constantly refers to cases and the making of cases and tearing apart cases.
However at the end of the day cases don't matter its who you think is scum and why sure you then have to relay this to the rest of the player but it jsut seems glen focuses a bit much on "cases" and less on scumhunting

Also Glen was very vocal day 1, but now that no votes are on him he's gone (and we're approaching the 24 hour mark with nothing from him)

As such i am less inclined to Think of Glen as newbtown however there are other more suspicious now

More Coming just breaking it down so theres less wall of text

Magetastic

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #184 on: August 23, 2009, 03:36:41 PM »
Actually it took Alice jumping off the Glen train onto the Excal train to create the tie. At the time, It was Glen4, Excal3, Alex3, and Tonfa5. If he were to actively vote against Tonfa lynch, why wouldn't the vote go to Glen, creating an actual tie?

Also, you're right about Glen. That does seem odd. I'll have to re-look at what he's said, because the possibility of Glen and Kilga both being scum might be supported by the voting record and what Kilga said D1.
<%King_Meepdorah> roll 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"?
* +Hatbot --> "King_Meepdorah rolls 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"? and gets 999."12 [1d999=999]
<%King_Meepdorah> ...
<+superaway> ...Uh oh.
<+RandomConsonant> ...
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Smodge13

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #185 on: August 23, 2009, 03:44:51 PM »
Your right it was Alice that Tied it.
Kilga does mention he will switch to Glen last minute if not enough votes went on Excal.

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #186 on: August 23, 2009, 03:52:10 PM »
But that just reaffirms what I was saying about how it's suspicious he went from no case to 'LYNCH EXCAL.' If it was simply a "Tonfa shouldn't die!" then he would've voted Glen to tie it. And there were plenty of people ready to take Glen down, too. I guess you could say that what everyone else was saying about Excal might've influenced him, but really, your post #138 was a good summary of the whole case aganst Excal. And that was well before he'd made up his mind.

To me, it seems like Glen and Kilga are scumchums, (I still say Tonfa's suspicious, but these two REALLY climbed the ladder) and Kilga used the chainsaw defense for Glen, taking out Excal, Glen's #1 Antagonist.
<%King_Meepdorah> roll 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"?
* +Hatbot --> "King_Meepdorah rolls 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"? and gets 999."12 [1d999=999]
<%King_Meepdorah> ...
<+superaway> ...Uh oh.
<+RandomConsonant> ...
* +superaway shakes head.

Kilgamayan

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #187 on: August 23, 2009, 04:14:36 PM »
I get that replacement could've had something to do with it, but there's no way to distinguish "I was in anguish over my choices" with "I was waiting to see what should be done," and it's kinda frustrating. I don't really see how Excal could look worse than Tonfa at a cursory glance, apart from possibly the fact that he was actually there to look at in the second half of the day.

What did Tonfa do to look so bad? Seriously, I don't get this at all. He posted a personal game theory opinion - when you have no suspicions, vote for the player most likely to be a detriment to town (a theory I subscribe to, in fact!) - and then BOOM four/five votes out of fucking nowhere. Is that really worth that many votes? Is that really worth any votes at all?

Checking back, he did actually give a reason for his vote, although since it wasn't really borne of thinking someone is scum, it's pretty easy to discount. Hmm.

His reason was "I think Glen is likelier to be town than Tonfa". This is hard to take seriously when he had never provided a single comment on Tonfa's behavior in either direction.

I don't like the emphasis Kilga has on one thing, actually, it's kinda been a theme and I'm seeing it in his last post as well. If someone hasn't contributed opinions, and you poke them, and then they do... does that absolve them of their earlier failure to participate?

Only if their opinions are good. If the opinions I get from a prod suck then no I'm going to move my vote.

Looking back on it, Kilga went from having no read on the Excal train

Quote
Excal's arguments have seemed clearly defined to me. Do you (or anyone else since you're not actually voting for him) have concrete examples of this "sloppiness"?

To this.

Quote
Okay I can see that argument against Excal a bit more. I would understand Excal's position if he had ever actually said what made the Baton look less good in his eyes than Glen, but...he didn't, so.

And what changed his mind? Well, nobody addressed his question before this, and it was purely Alice and Glen there, Alice saying Kilga's vote was crap, and Glen flopping over onto Excal train. (Which, on re-read, is seriously giving me the heeby-jeebies) And then Kilga continues by playing the safe card and saying he'll vote for either Glen or Excal. (also saying he'll actively vote against a Tonfa lynch, which sticks out to me, though that means nothing when we don't know what Tonfa is) On re-read, though, this really bugs me, especially after his goings on about Excal.

What changed my mind was what Smodge presented, which I can be seen acknowledging here:

Ninja by Smodge, will look into what he's saying momentarily.

Note that when he says 'time is short' he votes for the only other person in the minority train, and that he's gone from having no case to having case enough to push a lynch on Excal? Hmm.

Combined seeing a case on Excal with not believing Tonfa should be lynched. I made my feelings about the latter there pretty obvious throughout the day, I think, and I'm surprised you didn't make the connection on your own to the first half of what you said here.

But that just reaffirms what I was saying about how it's suspicious he went from no case to 'LYNCH EXCAL.' If it was simply a "Tonfa shouldn't die!" then he would've voted Glen to tie it.

Vote out of necessity only as a last resort. There was still time for more people to vote Excal (as evidenced by two people doing it after I did), so I went with the guy I thought likelier to be scum.

Definitely not feeling very good about Mage after this. I would still be willing to chalk it up to newbtown but he pretty blatantly cherrypicks my comment about his assessment of the Excal case away from my affirmation that I'm going to read and consider what Smodge had presented and tries to spin it against me. Again newbtown could potentially chalk it up to him not knowing what "ninja" means but I think newbtown would have asked before making such a mistake.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Yoshiken

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #188 on: August 23, 2009, 04:31:41 PM »
Okay, I'm not gonna quote the whole thing, but I'm referring to the quotes of mine here.
1. And the directions I gave him were... to re-read the topic. Right.
2. No, what it comes down to is "Tonfa is still suspicious. Alex is more."
3. From the fact that he said he wasn't even gonna bother reading any of the Walls of Text? Maybe him saying he wasn't gonna read part of the topic implied that he wasn't gonna be reading parts of the topic. Maybe.
4. I checked the topic about 15 minutes from deadline. I started writing up a post, previewed, and added a bit for the next 5 posts. I then changed my post to vote Glen, then previewed to find he was down to 3 votes against two 5s. Went to switch vote to Tonfa and the deadline post hit.
5. I meant later in the day there. If the train on Alex were to build, and then I voted him, I'd be accused of train-hopping. It's already happened a few times in this game, no reason it wouldn't happen again.
Smodge: Alex was openly stating that he wasn't co-operating at all, which to me seems anti-Town, not bad-Town.
Sopko: I personally don't see it as train-hopping when there's a good case against that person. Each time, I've had and presented reasons for voting for those people, which are the reasons those trains have started in the first place. (Also, as was previously said, when I initially voted Alex, there was one vote, which is definitely not a train.)

Right. Time for today's actions.

##Unvote: Sir Alex.
##Vote: Smodge13.


Smodge starts off making some very questionable arguments on the first few days, as Excal pointed out - but in response to Glen, not at Smodge. Hops around between two cases - starts with Rat, moves to me, then goes to Excal (due to deadline, claims Rat is scummiest here), and then back to me.
Re-reading the Tonfa case... I'm not seeing it as half as bad as I did at the time. It started out badly, with flailing and bad logic, but he explained those away. Past that, outside of some semantics, seems like a mostly neutral read on him from Day1.
Glen suspicions peak on Page 3 with the "It's not my argument, I'm not gonna respond to it" thing. That still looks very suspicious to me, especially seeing as he never actually defended his interpretation of that post. I don't like the idea that he seemed to stick to the Rat/Excal path solely because he thought it'd be seen as a Scumtell if he switched - the scumtell would be narrow-mindedly following a dead case, if you ask me.
Alex has already started strongly with Day2, with a good case on Bard. Seems quite similar to this post's case on Smodge, but.. Bard's posts seem much more Town in style than Smodge's, and the logic is better, hence the vote. Gonna keep an eye on Bard, though.
Those not mentioned... Rat strikes me as slightly Town, but I don't like the style. Kiro's practically impossible to read for me. Tom seems likely to be Town, Sopko too, to a lesser extent. Mage is still as suspicious as he was Day1, I'm not getting much from his Day2 posts yet. Alice is too low-profile to get a read.

In all honesty, this case against me seems to be badly argued at the start, and now it just seems like they're going about this backwards - look for who could be Mafia, not how one person could be.
Except for this reporter thing people keep commenting on. I'm actually not too sure where or how I've done this, other than the occasional snarky remark. Can someone point out a post in particular for me..?

And Smodge: Cases mean nothing? Cases are pretty much everything. If you can't present your case well, nobody will follow it. If you can defend your case, you're not likely to fall. Cases lead to scum-hunting, so saying scum-hunting is important and cases aren't is ridiculous.

(Apologies for the Wall of Text. I'll try to avoid making another any time soon...)

Laggy

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #189 on: August 23, 2009, 05:48:31 PM »
Votecount

Rat (0):
Glen (0):
Bard (2): Alex, Soppy
Alex (0): Yoshi
Tonfa (0): Mage
Soppy (1): Kiro
Smodge (1): Yoshi
Tom (0):
Mage (0):
Kilga (1): Rat, Mage
Yoshi (2): Kilga, Smodge
Alice (0):
Kiro (0): Alex

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 2 ends in 24 hours.

Mod note: Tonfa, Bard, and Glen have all not posted for over 24 hours. Please rectify this.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 05:59:01 PM by Laggy »
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Smodge13

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #190 on: August 23, 2009, 05:52:47 PM »
Yet Laggy doesn't mention Glen.
Am i missing something?

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #191 on: August 23, 2009, 05:58:41 PM »
Nope, I totally missed his inactivity too. Noted.
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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #192 on: August 23, 2009, 08:30:52 PM »
Sorry, something came up, and family > MAFIA.

I'm catching up with the thread now so expect a proper response momentarily.

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #193 on: August 23, 2009, 08:36:20 PM »
At his request, Tonfa will be modkilled at the end of the day and his flip revealed then. All votes on him will be cleared.
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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #194 on: August 23, 2009, 08:49:01 PM »
Right, so let's handle matters in chronological order.

Quote
Hey guy hows about that thing where he jumps straight from Glen to Tonfa to me, accusing Tonfa of jumping trains willy-nilly (which in fact is what he is doing!) and then accusing me for only having a few content posts (which in fact describes him!)  Opportunistic much?  Each of his posts is "Oh yeah eh my previous case whatever LET'S GO NEW TARGET BLAM!" ... with nothing on anything other than past target/new target.

If you'd note, I accused Glen of it much, and mostly on him jumping between the same two targets. And do you disagree that you only have a few content posts (and how about your blatant DON'T FEEL LIKE PARTICIPATING IN DAY 1 statement)? This reeks of OMGUS.

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His blatant language in "I want to lynch X" seems more telling now than it was then. It wasn't "I think X is scum." He just wanted them lynched.

Semantics. Good grief, my man, do I honestly have to literally lay out in every post that I think my suspect is scum when I voted on him saying, "I think Alex is scum and this takes priority over all else". Do you really think my not wording it exactly as "I want him lynched because he is scum" is a scumtell? Because honestly, not stating the obvious hardly seems like a valid charge to me.

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Bandwagon-hopping is certainly a severe no-no.

When reading others' posts and they highlight Alex, it is only natural that I check whether their accusations towards him were valid. I found them valid, agreed with them and decided to pursue his lynch as his non-participation to town was more scumlike to me than the other cases at that moment. I do not feel I was bandwagon-hopping, but apparently we disagree on this matter.

----

As for the matter of the day, certainly not happy with Alex's lack of participation Day 1. His comment about being... surprised someone got lynched baffle me. It does irk me that, apparently, you placed that vote with no meaning to it, then, if your goal wasn't a lynch, and you never really still participated in the Day.

Coupled with what I feel is an OMGUS vote against me, I'm pretty content with picking up where yesterday left off and ##VOTE: SirAlex.

Ranmilia

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #195 on: August 23, 2009, 10:50:20 PM »
My goal was a lynch!  I just didn't really expect it to take, because this game is full of players who do not realize the value of not drowning the town and I knew they'd be all over me with "WHAT!!  ALEX SAID HE ISN'T READING OMG!"  I expected to see Glen lynched, which I'd consider standard, or Tonfa lynched, which I'd consider sad and have to yell at people about.  Call me a pessimist.  I'm not displeased at Excal going out, I thought he was scummy, but the way in which it happened is very surprising.

As for Bard...  uh, no, my vote on Bard is for crazy train hopping with crowd-stirring hypocritical accusations.  As Rat pointed out.  But Rat apparently does not feel trainhopping is inherently scummy?  I would posit that it is very much inherently scummy, when done in this fashion.  Rat's also doing reporter style to a pretty big extent and concentrating on issues that I think aren't too aboveboard.  Willing to vote him today.  I'd say he jumped up to my second candidate with all that except where the heck are Kiro, Tom, Glen, Alice, etc?

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #196 on: August 23, 2009, 10:50:37 PM »
Sorry for my lack of presence for the first 24 hours, went to visit my dad and it turned out his computer was fried from one of the storms we've been having in the area, reading over things now...

Kilgamayan

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #197 on: August 24, 2009, 12:23:46 AM »
I like how Bard accuses Alex of OMGUSing...and then OMGUSes Alex. Everyone knows that hypocrisy is the best way to dissuade accusations of hypocrisy :V

Bard why are you voting Alex for not participating on Day 1 when he's participating now on a day that actually matters? Rat will probably get all over me for this but seriously you have two flips to work with and that's all you can point at? I call weaksauce.

Will address Yoshi in a moment.

I wouldn't mind seeing a real post from Glen soon.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Glen Veil

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #198 on: August 24, 2009, 12:36:18 AM »
Alright, read over the stuff, I'll answer some things then touch on the few things I have in mind.

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It's not scummy, just stupid; I'm not sure if that should make me rethink his previous actions as "noob town" rather than scummy, but eh. I don't know what to think when it comes to giving noobs free passes anymore. I might leave that one for metagame thread after this game is over. For now though, time to try and make my brain do things, hard things, like thinking.

At the time I wrote that argument, I was under the impression that it would take 8 votes to lynch, and that any less on someone would just have meant that no lynch would happen, I hope that clarifies the basis behind it.

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Easy excuse. Glen's switch to Tonfa with about a half hour to go (which could use a spotlight or two given the awful awful reasoning that accompanied it btw) basically sealed the Alex train.

Pretty much the same answer for this as my previous one, though could you clarify how my vote switch killed the Alex train?

As for my thoughts.  Right now I'm kind of suspicious of Alex, but probably not for the reasons that everyone else is.  If possible, I would like to get clarification on this sentence:

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Town quality low enough in this game that lynching scum today very unlikely

I'm also somewhat confused about the lack of discussion regarding Xanth's murder.  Is trying to discuss the possibilities of why he was picked too theoretical and futile?

I'm not really sure where I want to pin some people at the moment, and since people were complaining about my posts being too wall of textish, I'll end this post for now and in the meantime just reread the day 2 posts again to see if I can get a better understanding of what people are feeling about each other, I also hope I can't get Alex's clarification before I take a side so quickly again, definitely feel like I was too quick to jump the gun day 1.

Yoshiken

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Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia
« Reply #199 on: August 24, 2009, 12:40:15 AM »
Trying to predict why someone was killed generally leads into a whole bunch of WIFOM. It's probably best for Town to avoid that, as it just leads to circular arguments mostly.