Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 8

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

@ Snow with her MP pool Lucia's support isn't all that expensive in general apart from her end game (ultimate - Aurora combinations) and some of the of the Moon X combos (ironically those are her money moves in game though) Oh and oh no I'm not hyping Lucia as having MP Regen yet no (Russia arc is roughly L20+ average to me - at least according to the old file I rummaged the last time this came up - so definite F3 under my dungeon level interps)

**

For future references peeps -

t = Turn -

Ocean + Misty   | Immediate small HP recovery, 20 MP
+ Grass   | Small HP recovery, 1t, 25 MP
        + Night   | Medium HP recovery, 1t, 30 MP
        + Moon    | Small HP recovery, 2t, 30 MP
        + Shining | Medium HP recovery, 2t, 35 MP
        + Sunrise | Immediate medium HP recovery, 25 MP
        + Aurora  | Large HP recovery, 2t, 70 MP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Misty   + Ocean   | Immune to status abnormalities, 1t, 20 MP
        + Grass   | Immune to ring abnormalities, 2t, 25 MP
        + Night   | Immune to status abnormalities, 3t, 30 MP
        + Moon    | Immune to status abnormalities, 2t, 25 MP
        + Shining | Immune to ring abnormalities, 1t, 20 MP
        + Sunrise | Immune to ring abnormalities, 3t, 30 MP
        + Aurora  | Immune to ring&status abnormalities, 3t, 60 MP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grass  + Ocean   | Medium P-DEF increase, 3t, 25 MP
        + Misty   | Medium S-DEF increase, 3t, 25 MP
        + Night   | Small S-DEF increase, 3t, 20 MP
        + Moon    | Small P-DEF increase, 3t, 20 MP
        + Shining | Large P-DEF increase, 3t, 30 MP
        + Sunrise | Large S-DEF increase, 3t, 30 MP
        + Aurora  | Large P-DEF & S-DEF increase, 3t, 60 MP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night  + Ocean   | Small MP recovery, 1t, 25 MP
        + Misty   | Small MP recovery, 2t, 30 MP
        + Grass   | Immediate small MP recovery, 20 MP
        + Moon    | Medium MP recovery, 2t, 35 MP
        + Shining | Immediate medium MP recovery, 25 MP
        + Sunrise | Medium MP recovery, 1t, 30 MP
        + Aurora  | Large MP recovery, 2t, 70 MP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moon+ Ocean   | Strike effect raised by 1,5 times, 1t, 60 MP
        + Misty   | EVA doubled, 1t, 25 MP
        + Grass   | Critical rate raised by 1,5 times, 1t, 30 MP
        + Night   | Critical rate becomes 100%, 1t, 100 MP
        + Shining | Critical rate doubled, 1t, 25 MP
        + Sunrise | EVA raised by 1,5 times, 1t, 20 MP
        + Aurora  | Third Key effect, 1t, 750 MP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shining + Ocean   | Large P-ATK increase, 3t, 30 MP
        + Misty   | Small S-ATK increase, 3t, 20 MP
        + Grass   | Large S-ATK increase, 3t, 30 MP
        + Night   | Small P-ATK increase, 3t, 20 MP
        + Moon    | Medium P-ATK increase, 3t, 25 MP
        + Sunrise | Medium S-ATK increase, 3t, 25 MP
        + Aurora  | Large P-ATK & S-ATK increase, 3t, 60 MP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunrise + Ocean   | Immediate small SP recovery, 20 MP
        + Misty   | Small SP recovery, 2t, 30 MP
        + Grass   | Medium SP recovery, 2t, 35 MP
        + Night   | Small SP recovery, 1t, 25 MP
        + Moon    | Immediate medium SP recovery, 25 MP
        + Shining | Medium SP recovery, 1t, 30 MP
        + Aurora  | Large SP recovery, 2t, 70 MP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aurora  + Ocean   | Medium HP, small MP&SP recovery, 2t, 70 MP
        + Misty   | Small HP&MP&SP recovery, immune to abnormalities, 2t, 70 MP
        + Grass   | Small HP&MP&SP recovery, med. P-DEF & S-DEF inc. 2t, 70 MP
        + Night   | Medium MP, small HP&SP recovery, 2t, 70 MP
        + Moon    | Small HP&MP&SP recovery, Third Key effect, 2t, 900 MP
        + Shining | Small HP&MP&SP recovery, med. P-ATK & S-ATK inc. 2t, 70 MP
        + Sunrise | Medium SP, small HP&MP recovery, 2t, 70 MP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I know this list is hueg liek X Box but it is more relevant to the dungeon than the DL variant. Might be worth having on hand.

Can you add that list to the wiki along with rough areas in the Dungeon where she gets those oils (you may need to poke Neph for that pegging)? It's a useful reference for Lucia, whose worth in the dungeon is incredibly obtuse, and having this list would make things a lot easier.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I suspect Kainazzo nearly doubles average speed, which can be problematic. TL can mitigate those issues, yes... but this ignores the fact that Kai can just forfeit the waves instead and focus on Blue for the stalling. Then Milon and Baigan finish the job and you start having to waste time and resources. Your early fights will be all about trying to stall you down so you can't finish the floor.

Stat topic notes he's just above average speed, not that fast. 

He insta-doubles everybody but Cecil and Yang in his fight, and he does get his fair share of doubles against them. Granted, FF4 speed is a trainwreck, so you could argue differently. Fair enough.

[Clear Tranquil]

Here are some of my concerns for Team Andrew -

vs FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard, FF1 White Wizard - Kneejerking that they can't OHKO all four opponents at once and in the first place they *have* to OHKO the prime target of choice (which in my opinion in this quite specific case is Black Wizard) otherwise he's ripping the team a new one with Blizzard spells due to scoring One!Mores on nailing Yukiko's ice weakness (or the same with Fire spells/Chie) On the other hand White Mage has healing/revival/buffs/status (and I am strick on blockers for the Persona series) ... in general she would be the prime target of choice for most teams as the support of their opponents usually are. Due to Persona weaknesses there are at least two prime choices time at least as far as I'm concerned. Hell even if Knight/Archer have any elemental weapons this is going to be painful.

vs Frog - Ice = Water interps - I dunno what the general concensus on this is though or whether or not I buy it. I buy it sometimes though depends on the game/s or specific situations.

vs Freya - Ice Lance off good speed + while this kind of nerfs Freya's overall ATK/damage it might allow the other two to pile some pressure on Andrew's team. I dunno.

vs. Gilliam, Oswin and Galleon- While I have no clue who the hell these guys are (S5 Galleon?) it wouldn't surprise if they had the ability to hit weakness in there somewhere >_> On the other hand it gives Andrew a breather if they don't.

vs Cecil + Nina4 - Ice Brand + Nina4

Edit: The dungeon wiki Snow? Sure no problem =-) As long as that's ok with Neph (I wasn't sure whether or not non Neph people were able to edit it at random)~

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

vs FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard, FF1 White Wizard - Kneejerking that they can't OHKO all four opponents at once and in the first place they *have* to OHKO the prime target of choice (which in my opinion in this quite specific case is Black Wizard) otherwise he's ripping the team a new one with Blizzard spells due to scoring One!Mores on nailing Yukiko's ice weakness (or the same with Fire spells/Chie) On the other hand White Mage has healing/revival/buffs/status (and I am strick on blockers for the Persona series) ... in general she would be the prime target of choice for most teams as the support of their opponents usually are. Due to Persona weaknesses there are at least two prime choices time at least as far as I'm concerned. Hell even if Knight/Archer have any elemental weapons this is going to be painful.

The ice piling with Ice Brand and Black Wizard magic indeed would be painful, but Black Wizard is a durability failure like few others and is unlikely to get a turn, not to mention his elemental damage is beyond awful (I think BW 4HKOs with his best damage, and the L3s are a ways below Flare to boot. Not enough to down either Yuki or Chie). Only Knight will be able to abuse weaknesses in this case (the only elemental archer weapon I remember is a Lightning Bow. So useful), which is still worrisome, though. I'm actually thinking they'll drop Knight first and worry about BW later.

vs Frog - Ice = Water interps - I dunno what the general concensus on this is though or whether or not I buy it. I buy it sometimes though depends on the game/s or specific situations.

Don't think I'd give it much heed due to flavor concerns here.

vs Freya - Ice Lance off good speed + while this kind of nerfs Freya's overall ATK/damage it might allow the other two to pile some pressure on Andrew's team. I dunno.

Freya isn't bothering to equip an Ice Lance. It loses her a few elemental resists, which are good to nerf Team Andy's damage and she has Luna. Luna is the big reason she's such a threat bar none, given how it makes it impossible for the team to keep the fight's flow under control.

[superaielman]

I'm pretty damn sure Freya isn't living to get a turn. Even with lovelove in play, Chie+two yuris pounding on her is very likely death. (And Yuri2 is definitely faster than Freya at this point).

[Dunefar]

Team Taishyr | Kyogre, Maya, Garnet, Kyra (MT), FFT Priest
[Floor 2a]
Team Taishyr vs. Milon, Baigan and Kainazzo (FF4 SNES)
Team Taishyr vs. Booster
Team Taishyr vs. Scarmiglione-Z (FF4 DS)
Team Taishyr vs. Kary
Team Taishyr vs. Augus and Nimufu - Makes it through okay.

Team Magic | Blue, Timelord, Lilka, Lucia, FFT Priest
[Floor 2a]
[Blue: Realm (Mastered) Light (Storebought)]
Team Magic vs. Milon, Baigan and Kainazzo (FF4 SNES)
Team Magic vs. Booster
Team Magic vs. Scarmiglione-Z (FF4 DS)
Team Magic vs. Kary
Team Magic vs. Augus and Nimufu - Close but I think they pull it off.

Team Andrew | Yuri1, Yuri2, Chie, Yukiko, Ditto (Love Love)
[Floor 2b]
Team Andrew vs. FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard, FF1 White Wizard
Team Andrew vs. Frog and Crono
Team Andrew vs. FF9 Freya, FFT Lancer and FF3 Dragoon
Team Andrew vs. Gilliam, Oswin and Galleon
Team Andrew vs. FF4 DS Cecil and Nina4 - No comment.

[Clear Tranquil]

Oh right ... IX equip cheese. My bad. Right. The Ice Lance thing I was mainly thinking of an alternative for Luna if peeps didn't see that working for whatever reason.

The ice piling with Ice Brand and Black Wizard magic indeed would be painful, but Black Wizard is a durability failure like few others and is unlikely to get a turn, not to mention his elemental damage is beyond awful (I think BW 4HKOs with his best damage, and the L3s are a ways below Flare to boot. Not enough to down either Yuki or Chie).

Fair enough. Yeah I didn't see magic killing Yukiko just perhaps hurting the others if it was MT and mainly One!Mores screwing up Andrew's turn order between Yuki being on her ass and getting up from it :-P

Only Knight will be able to abuse weaknesses in this case (the only elemental archer weapon I remember is a Lightning Bow. So useful), which is still worrisome, though. I'm actually thinking they'll drop Knight first and worry about BW later.

Well I took a look anyway and turns out Archer does get an Ice Bow after all. Problem? Only 5 Attack >_>

Long Bow 4  
Silver Bow 5  
Ice Bow 5 Ice
Lightning Bow 6 Lightning
Mythril Bow 7  
Windslash Bow 8 Wind

Best is Perseus? At 16 Attack.

**

Freya has near game best defence (ousted by Steiner) only and third best/above average HP as well *If* she is going down before a turn then yeah it is taking most of Andrew's team all piling on her.

Edit: Apparently I had it the wrong way round and Chie is fast while Yuki is slow. Yuri2 competes with Blanca, Karin and Kurando for speed ... infact Yuri and Karin have the exact same speed endgame and thus probably more or less earlier on too. So same as Ana/Lucia to me - random variance. Freya ... competes with Zidane + Garnet/Amarant with the latter two being the same as Yuri/Karin.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Chie has an issue in that she -grows- into being fast instead of starting fast (she's actually game-worst speed until like post-Bathhouse? It doesn't take her long to grow, but). Yuki is fairly meh at speed throughout, though. The main issue is that the Yuris have to hit Freya's good defense (they're hitting elemental resistances with magic) at halved damage and Chie is hitting an elemental resistance as well if she goes magic. I'm not sure if Yuri2 is even faster than Freya, nor am I sure Chie is faster than Freya herself at this point. Complicated.

[Yoshiken]

Wait, Chie's game-worst until the bath-house? Seriously?
...That doesn't seem right judging from my experience, at least. But that'd probably tip the fight in the Dungeon's favour..

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

On the first dungeon, she's just that by default due to Yosuke and Chie being better than her at it (and early P4 spreads are very small), and she takes a little bit until she starts getting the Agi points to eke past Yukiko definitely. Yukiko tended to outspeed Chie in the sauna until late in it for me, for an instance. Mind, this is more of a tiebreaker deal, since, as said before, P4 stat spreads only start really showing from floor 3 onwards.

[Yoshiken]

Hmm, fair enough. I think Chie overtook Yukiko early bath-house for me, so... I'm content leaving my vote as it is, yeah.

[SnowFire]

vs Freya - Ice Lance off good speed + while this kind of nerfs Freya's overall ATK/damage it might allow the other two to pile some pressure on Andrew's team. I dunno.

Freya isn't bothering to equip an Ice Lance. It loses her a few elemental resists, which are good to nerf Team Andy's damage and she has Luna. Luna is the big reason she's such a threat bar none, given how it makes it impossible for the team to keep the fight's flow under control.

Does it?  The stat topic and a FAQ I checked didn't say anything about Freya's default weapon giving her a ton of elemental resists... it's mostly an armor that does that, and that requires hosing her physical defense rather notably to get it.

Anyway....  as a few more thoughts...  checked, and Yuri2 can get Raise up at level 3/10 in his Light Fusion.  That's certainly doable by Floor 2 to me, albeit at the cost of having little invested in his other fusions.  It also seems that Yukiko gets revival at around the end of the bathhouse?  So Andrew has two revivers, which is good for avoiding some nasty situations.  Because if he didn't have two revivers...  even if Chie / Yuris kill Freya, FF3 Dragoon / Lancer are still probably killing Yukiko even with her not berserk likely on turn 2 (or killing Yuri2 instead if the Lancer / Dragoons are male), but at least then Team Andrew can revive to get back on their feet.  (Don't forget that, perversely enough, because FFT Lancer is slow he can jump with impunity on turn 1 - no opportunity to move away or anything so the Jump misses.)  (Also, I take this back if Persona 4 has a really awesome defend command, but with Yuki's 85% durability, I don't think a half-damage defend stops the ton of damage headed her way.)

[AndrewRogue]

Kneejerking a loss for me. Will look at it closer later. Abstain on the others until later.

[Clear Tranquil]

Yukiko didn't have revival after I cleared the bathhouse with her in my party. Recarm is L26. Hell no that is F3. Even with being generous with dungeon levels it's still F3 >_>

Indeed I had to *grind* for Agilio even (L21) so I could put a dent in steamy!boss. I didn't have it at first.

Chie has an issue in that she -grows- into being fast instead of starting fast (she's actually game-worst speed until like post-Bathhouse? It doesn't take her long to grow, but). Yuki is fairly meh at speed throughout, though. The main issue is that the Yuris have to hit Freya's good defense (they're hitting elemental resistances with magic) at halved damage and Chie is hitting an elemental resistance as well if she goes magic. I'm not sure if Yuri2 is even faster than Freya, nor am I sure Chie is faster than Freya herself at this point. Complicated

Thanks Jo'ou. Yeah I seem to remember something like that with Yuki having decent speed in the bathhouse. Which is why the stat topic surprised me. Then again I did stop using Yukiko after steamy boss (apart from a one off vs Striptease FRUE boss later) <_<

[Yoshiken]

Yeah, revival is almost certainly not F2. I think a fair interp is to say it's 10 levels to a floor, so even a very generous interp would struggle to see it being available halfway through F2.

[Clear Tranquil]

Yeah even allowing a spread of five extra levels depending isn't cutting it here. That's my max I think.

On the other hand.

Yuri2 can get Raise up at level 3/10 in his Light Fusion.  That's certainly doable by Floor 2 to me, albeit at the cost of having little invested in his other fusions.

This works.

Oh and Freya -

Elemental Protection
Absorb: Shadow (Armor)
Null: Fire (armor), Thunder (Armor)
Halve: Ice/Thunder (weapon), Water, Ice, Thunder (Helms); Wind, Earth, Shadow, Water, Ice, Fire/Ice/Thunder (Armor); Fire/Ice/Thunder, Fire/Earth/Wind/Water (greaves)

I ... am confused.

[Random Consonant]

FF9 equip nonsense.  It rivals SO2 in its absurdity.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

*far surpasses SO2 in its absurdity

[Random Consonant]

Even considering SO2 IC?

[superaielman]

FF9 has more absorbing/nulling stuff than SO2 IC tends to have. For one, there's no way to null Earth damage in SO2 and fire immunity is pretty rare as well.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Meanwhile, in FF9, if you halve all elements in the book but one, you actually sorta suck at elemental walling. It's absolutely appalling how much anti-elemental cheese FF9 has, particularly given it's -storebought-.

[Random Consonant]

*nods, admits that it's been a while*

[superaielman]

I'd definitely argue that the SO2 elemental stuff is far more valuable in game since so much damage is elemental, so I see where you're coming from on that

[SnowFire]

Elemental Protection
Absorb: Shadow (Armor)
Null: Fire (armor), Thunder (Armor)
Halve: Ice/Thunder (weapon), Water, Ice, Thunder (Helms); Wind, Earth, Shadow, Water, Ice, Fire/Ice/Thunder (Armor); Fire/Ice/Thunder, Fire/Earth/Wind/Water (greaves)

I ... am confused.

Those are Freya's options for nulling.  As in, she must pick something divided by a comma, and presumably you have to look up the defense / offense drop as well.  Kneejerk, she wants the Ice / Thunder halving on her weapon (I guess that's the Ice Lance, though the FAQ didn't mention the halving?), and the Fire/Earth/Wind/Water on her greaves.  Shadow is absorbed by her best armor naturally.  Still means that Yuri2 has Light Fusion damage to get at her...  though I'd question letting Yuri1 have it thanks to him having to beat up fairly-rare holy enemies to get soul energy for it.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Dragon’s Hair (77 Attack)
Grand Helm (33 Mdef Defense, 1 Speed)
Venetia Shield (19 Evade, 30 Mdef, 1 Strength, 7 Magic, 1 Mdef) (Gauntlets- 38 Evade,  7 Mevade, 1 Speed, Halve Fire/Wind/Earth/Water)
Grand Armor (59 Defense, 1 Str, Halve Shadow) (Shield Armor- 23 Defense, 5 Mdef, Halves Fire/Ice/Lightning)

Okay, just for clearance, I also pulled up Freya's default DL equipment. She halves six elements off the cusp by using this. And I was mistaken, her default weapon doesn't add resistances. Oh well.