Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 9

[superaielman]

Fielding a team with an actual ability to do direct damage.  Little late to do that though. I'm going to look through the floor again, but fists were a really poor choice. You *have* to get more value out of a 4.0 thanyou are getting from Blue, period.

[Magic Fanatic]

Lucia can toss a recovery oil while dead?

When is she dying if GlassShield goes up?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

When Earthquake goes off, because Glass Shield does nothing against it? You're assuming I'm buying your idea of TimeLeaping during OverDrive, which I honestly find vaguely preposterous. A turnskip at 0CT should do nothing.

[Magic Fanatic]

When Earthquake goes off, because Glass Shield does nothing against it? You're assuming I'm buying your idea of TimeLeaping during OverDrive.

Lucia still has some awesome MDEF, so I can argue she survives the EQ thanks to that.

[superaielman]

Huh? Time leap does absolutely nothing in OverDrive. he can lower the other team's speed, but that is it.

Edit: Blue can use Jet boots as well. Don't think that changes anything though, team still needs to use overdrive at first.

EDIT: Lucia HP likely offsets her special defense score. Shouldn't be massively notable either way.  Your only prayer of winning this floor is to have OD for the boss, and I don't see that happening.

[Nephrite]

Gale Slash, Haze-to-Wheel and... probably another sword tech that are MT do not trigger the Glass Shield counter, just sayin'.

[superaielman]

It does break the glass though. I would definitely see it working differently on this floor regardless.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

When Earthquake goes off, because Glass Shield does nothing against it? You're assuming I'm buying your idea of TimeLeaping during OverDrive.

Lucia still has some awesome MDEF, so I can argue she survives the EQ thanks to that.

The defense.... uh exactly cancels out the HP. So, yeah, she survives. And then, she does what now that the rest of the party died? You're hyping TimeLord and Lucia soloing the FFT fight that comes next when they can't break through Auto-Potion counters by themselves? That's pretty awesome.

[superaielman]

Blue doesn't give a flying fuck about Earthquake. And Mdefup is 400 JP, you can mostly master priest by the time floor 3 is. (Late C2 I'd say? At least get the money skills.) So it isn't Earthquake that's the problem, as it is only killing one person. Georg is and remains a pain in the ass for his team to deal with in general.

EDIT: TL is bringing OverDrive, Time Eclipse, Time Leap. He has one more spot for Time Twister (2x turns), Glass Shield, or Phantasm Shot.

Definitely going to look at the fights again real fast to make sure I'm not missing anything.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Right, Jet Boots.

Blue doesn't give a flying fuck about Earthquake. And Mdefup is 400 JP, you can mostly master priest by the time floor 3 is. (Late C2 I'd say? At least get the money skills.)

That -and- Holy (which you noted being quite possibly necessary in this floor)? I think that totals well over 1000 JP (Holy and MDef UP alone are close to that amount of JP), and a value above 1000 JP feels unreasonable to give to the FFTers at floor 3.

EDIT: I have no idea why I'm still trying to think about an approach that still forces Magic to blow an OD in the Georg/Tengaar fight.

[superaielman]

Again, floor 3 isn't far from midgame. You start off with 150 and if you're just staying in one class you move up through the tree quickly enough if you aren't switching jobs.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I guess. That borderline just feels unintuitive to me on many levels compared to in-game, where I had to beeline a Priest to get -Holy- by the save Agrias fight while not even having anything past Cure 2. MDef Up was a distant idea for me. But that's probably not relevant.

I still can't believe I'm wasting brain matter on an approach to a fight that doesn't save Magic from getting pasted later.

[superaielman]

Team Magic | Blue, Timelord, Lilka, Lucia, FFT Priest
[Floor 3b]
[Blue: Realm (Gift), Light (Gift), Fists]
*All ST is MT
Team Magic vs. Augst and Scythe- Basically a free win, Scythe has no durability and goes last. Team has to go into the next fight at full HP or relse.
Team Magic vs. Georg (S5) and Tengaar

Georg>TL/Lilka/Priest>Tengaar>Lucia>Blue

If TL doesn't OD, Georg brings the pain and that is pretty much that; Blue/Priest/TL are dead at the least and Lucia is in bad shape. I'd bet on Lilka being dead as well. Even if she isn't, you won't be able to recover in time from this.

So TL overdrives. He can status out either Georg or Tengaar. One one doesn't matter, since both are effectively neutered once they're slower. Priest/Lucia sort of rebuild resources, move on to next floor.

Team Magic vs. FFT Chemist, FFT Priest, FFT Samurai and FFT Knight- Turn skip nonsense, I covered this already.  It's very possible that they can get away with not having Priest with Holy, but it does simplify things.
*Full Heal
Team Magic vs. Nina4, Jessica Philomele and Yulie- Nina 4 offense ,etc.
Team Magic vs. Alma, Ramza and Dycedarg- Same problem applies. Your team loses if we are ignoring turn charging. Mbarrier's haste makes time leap suck, and Ramza's scream is now MTed and you start worrying about Dycedarg's speed. You have almost no way to directly damage the team, thanks to all three of them having so much Mevade and Mbarrier in play as well.

Assuming charging is in play, Alma charges Mbarrier, Ramza screams , TL uses Time Leap, Lilka does something, Lucia uses Gale, Priest either heals or buffs, Blue Pyschic prisons Alma. Alma charges a spell to counter act that, Ramza physicals, Lilka  heals, TL has to time leap Dycedarg again (Or else equipment starts breaking). Lucia does whatever, probably restores MP. FFT priest can heal, buff, or go for damage. Blue has to PP Alma or worry about more Mbarrier spam. You're not making any headway at -all-. You barely have the damage to break regen on Alma/Dycedarg and thanks to your wonderful selection of damage dealers, can't do much more than that. You need to have Overdrive so you can at least kill Ramza ahead of time and lower the other team's speed, otherwise you are screwed.

Give it up, man. You're toast.

[Magic Fanatic]

Assuming charging is in play, Alma charges Mbarrier, Ramza screams , TL uses Time Leap, Lilka does something, Lucia uses Gale, Priest either heals or buffs, Blue Pyschic prisons Alma. Alma charges a spell to counter act that, Ramza physicals, Lilka  heals, TL has to time leap Dycedarg again (Or else equipment starts breaking). Lucia does whatever, probably restores MP. FFT priest can heal, buff, or go for damage. Blue has to PP Alma or worry about more Mbarrier spam. You're not making any headway at -all-. You barely have the damage to break regen on Alma/Dycedarg and thanks to your wonderful selection of damage dealers, can't do much more than that. You need to have Overdrive so you can at least kill Ramza ahead of time and lower the other team's speed, otherwise you are screwed.

While it's bad, I'm gonna go ahead and hype Lilka's Dispel hitting Ramza's Yell, since that's specifically what it does in-game.  So if Ramza uses Yell, it gets dispelled, and if he physicals, it gets healed, and if he uses Ultima...  That gets TimeLeap'd.  Blue can cast LightSword for a SaGa +10 to all stats (including QUI, which is what this team needs), Lucia uses Gale on the first turn instead of an MP recovery Oil, and...  I don't think Priest has anything to do at this point except benefit from the MP recovery towards the Holy that's hyped as being there...  'Cause while Ramza can get that Yell off, I have Lilka to cast Quick to counter that.

[Random Consonant]

FFT stat buffs cannot be dispelled.  I thought this was covered well enough last time.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Assuming charging is in play, Alma charges Mbarrier, Ramza screams , TL uses Time Leap, Lilka does something, Lucia uses Gale, Priest either heals or buffs, Blue Pyschic prisons Alma. Alma charges a spell to counter act that, Ramza physicals, Lilka  heals, TL has to time leap Dycedarg again (Or else equipment starts breaking). Lucia does whatever, probably restores MP. FFT priest can heal, buff, or go for damage. Blue has to PP Alma or worry about more Mbarrier spam. You're not making any headway at -all-. You barely have the damage to break regen on Alma/Dycedarg and thanks to your wonderful selection of damage dealers, can't do much more than that. You need to have Overdrive so you can at least kill Ramza ahead of time and lower the other team's speed, otherwise you are screwed.

While it's bad, I'm gonna go ahead and hype Lilka's Dispel hitting Ramza's Yell, since that's specifically what it does in-game.

Yes, hype a shitty dispel that can even miss against a buff and can't undo a bunch of its own buffs in-game against a uber buff that can't be dispelled in-game by -any dispelling measure-. If you're going to hype dispelling there, don't hype one that's worse than FFT Dispel. If you're going to argue that WA2 Dispel is somehow better than FFT Dispel -again-, you might as well suck on your thumb, because it's less of a waste of saliva.

[superaielman]

What they said. No. FFT stat buffs can't be dispelled. Light sword's +10 speed boost does nothing of note, and you're putting yourself in the wonderful position to get your team one rounded from Ramza/Alma damage.

[Magic Fanatic]

FFT stat buffs cannot be dispelled.  I thought this was covered well enough last time.

I believe I argued that FFT stat buffs can be dispelled, there was just nothing that specifically targeted them in-game other than stat debuffs, making buff type 1, buff type 2, debuff type 1, and debuff type 2, where Lilka's Dispel specifically hits the stat-altering things, lacking the hype that it hits anything else.

Does it matter, anyway?  I've already detailed how my team's speed buffs can FAR outpace what Ramza can do, and even arguably, TimeLord goes before Alma starts charging.  Alma takes 10 CTs to get a turn making her average speed (same as Ramza).  Even under the HARSHEST interpretations, TimeLord has at least 105% average speed, going before they can do anything.

EDIT:  Dur-hur, me having a momentary lapse in judgment after not having enough sleep.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

FFT stat buffs cannot be dispelled.  I thought this was covered well enough last time.

I believe I argued that FFT stat buffs can be dispelled, there was just nothing that specifically targeted them in-game other than stat debuffs, making buff type 1, buff type 2, debuff type 1, and debuff type 2, where Lilka's Dispel specifically hits the stat-altering things, lacking the hype that it hits anything else.

Yes, and it totally convinced people last time you did it - oh wait it didn't. That argument didn't fly back here and it won't fly here. I could even see hyping a dispel against Scream assuming it was a very, very good spell that hit every buff and debuff in-game without fail. But you're hyping WA2 Dispel, which is dreck and works in less things than FFT Dispel does. No.

Does it matter, anyway?  I've already detailed how my team's speed buffs can FAR outpace what Ramza can do, and even arguably, TimeLord goes before Alma starts charging.  Alma takes 10 CTs to get a turn making her average speed (same as Ramza).  Even under the HARSHEST interpretations, TimeLord has at least 105% average speed, going before they can do anything.

You mean how your entire interp depends on how you're stealthily subtracting speed from Ramza and Alma while putting that speed on TL's score? Fuck, you're making up shit worse than last time.

[Magic Fanatic]

You mean how your entire interp depends on how you're stealthily subtracting speed from Ramza and Alma while putting that speed on TL's score? Fuck, you're making up shit worse than last time.

Okay, I suppose I'm missing something.  How do FFT CTs work, then?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

For starters, you're subtracting 1 speed from Ramza and Alma. They're 11 Speed, not 10 Speed at their overall best setup. This isn't about how CT works in FFT, it's about blatantly using incorrect numbers.

[superaielman]

I believe I argued that FFT stat buffs can be dispelled, there was just nothing that specifically targeted them in-game other than stat debuffs, making buff type 1, buff type 2, debuff type 1, and debuff type 2, where Lilka's Dispel specifically hits the stat-altering things, lacking the hype that it hits anything else.

You are seriously surprised that people are getting annoyed when you are making the exact same argument that got you yelled at in this topic last time and the same passive-aggressive complaining? Again, I know it sucks to lose a team you like in the dungeon but if you can't handle it you need to stop posting here.

On the flip side, take your midol and stop baiting him Snow.

[Magic Fanatic]

For starters, you're subtracting 1 speed from Ramza and Alma. They're 11 Speed, not 10 Speed at their overall best setup. This isn't about how CT works in FFT, it's about blatantly using incorrect numbers.

9 CTs at 11 speed make 99, not 100, so Alma and Ramza still need 10 CTs to get 100 on the gauge.  Am I still misunderstanding something here?



Team Magic | Blue, Timelord, Lilka, Lucia, FFT Priest
[Floor 3b]
[Blue: Realm (Gift), Light (Gift), Fists]
*All ST is MT
Team Magic vs. Augst and Scythe - While the fight is a bit long, my team really doesn't have any problems beating these guys down.
Team Magic vs. Georg (S5) and Tengaar - TimeLord is faster than George, and throws up GlassShield.  Georg attacks, and there's a GlassShield counter x5, killing Tengaar in the process.  Lilka casts quick, and now no one on the team has to fear Georg.

Alternately, TimeLord is forced to Overdrive on this floor.  GlassShield is still a top priority, as well as maybe Flash from the Frillneck absorption.  Now Georg is barely hitting things ever, Lilka STILL gets a Quick off to TimeLord before getting hit with EQ, which is even arguable now, since Georg may have missed her shield.  Stalling ensues for TimeLord's JP, and then a quick slaughter.
Team Magic vs. FFT Chemist, FFT Priest, FFT Samurai and FFT Knight - TimeLeap cheese.  Next.
*Full Heal
Team Magicvs. Nina4, Jessica Philomele and Yulie - TimeLeap cheese.  Next.
Team Magic vs. Alma, Ramza and Dycedarg - TimeLord beats out everyone here on speed, and TimeLeap cheese ensues.  If it wasn't for Judo Outfits/Chameleon Robes/Jade Armlets, this would be over a lot faster.   FlashFire can inflict Blind, either killing enemy accuracy or forcing Ramza to waste turns, and if they try to immune Blind with Angel Rings, they're missing Petrify with what the Jade Armlets give.

EDIT:  Granted, this is just my views.  Views will vary, so take things as you will.

[superaielman]

Team Magic vs. Georg (S5) and Tengaar - TimeLord is faster than George, and throws up GlassShield.  Georg attacks, and there's a GlassShield counter x5, killing Tengaar in the process.  Lilka casts quick, and now no one on the team has to fear Georg.

You... do understand how saga mechanics work, right? Glass shield only breaks on the target who attacks it. If you want to say that the MT floor makes it trigger the counter five times, cool. But you're out of your  mind if you are going to say that it triggers said counters on everyone. Glass shield doesn't -ever- hit anyone who isn't at short range (One of the many reasons it sucks and sucks bad) and Tengaar's a long ranged fighter to boot. No to Glass shield's awful damage killing, even 5xed. It's pretty bad early on, and it's damage is suffering here since TL's stats aren't as good as they are endgame.

If TL -is- faster he is using time leap regardless, so I don't know what you're arguing here. But he's not.  Mystic stats aren't as good relatively in the early/mid game as they are late game, absorbs aren't as strong overall. 

Your best bet for the boss fight is Delayorder. This isn't as strong as Time Eclipse's speed down since it hits MDef (So largely useless) but it does have first strike.  It just doesn't do enough, as Mbarrier offsets the slowdown effect and Alma's turn is right on the heels of TL's at worst. Once Mbarrier goes up it probably won't have any kind of impact thanks to the innate defenses of Alma/Dycedarg plus shell.  Delay order sucks, etc.

[Clear Tranquil]

To be fair, Garnet -doesn't- have decent speed

What Snow said. She is buying herself + the other girls time w/th One!More too.

Re: Lulu your comment earlier. Lu is getting the three turns because she gets her first turn, One!Mores Chie/Yuki to buy a second turn and buys a second One!More thus a third turn by switching targets to the other girl (like you buy more one mores by switching target in game P4) Lulu can Firaga combo on Chie or Bizzaga combo on Yuki and all sorts of evil things. She's rattling off like six spells w/th Double Cast. That is *evil*