Author Topic: The return of Nyarlathotep's Dungeon! (Read 10437 times)

VySaika · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2008, 04:59:08 PM »

Ricardo has MT Healing as well, unless I'm misremembering my initial crests and such. To give you a gauge of his ability, I honestly have no issues with Light Champ Ricardo. He's not an awesome one, but he's not bad at all, and even better in a team setting.

So yeah, Match 4 seems like a solid, but by no means really hard test fight.

The floor in general looks overall fine. Maybe add a support character to Garland and/or Lynx to make things a bit more uncertain or something.

Nephrite · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2008, 05:45:25 PM »

It should be noted that both Lucia and Ricardo have MT Healing in their unique abilities (Aromatherapy and Songs or whatever it was that Ricardo had) it's just MT healing that doesn't, in fact, affect them.

Based on the feedback, let's try this out:

Team Test: Godlike/Heavy/Middle/Light/Capsule

Team Test vs. FF1 Garland and Bowser (Antagonists who kidnapped Princesses)
Team Test vs. Kwanda, Onix, Humphrey (Durable)
Team Test vs. Jogurt, Ramus, Euram Barrows, Big Joe, Gobi, Kelvena (Joke Characters)
Team Test vs. Luna, Ricardo, Lucia (Buffers)
Team Test vs. Lynx and Gaffgarion (Earlygame bosses that are stupid or something)

superaielman · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2008, 05:46:10 PM »

Lynx has the Dark Serge option, which is actually.. really annoying in this format. High 3HKO MT damage.

Yakumo · « **Reply #28 on:** February 27, 2008, 07:36:14 PM »

Super, we're discussing the new scaling idea where Neph will limit the bosses to the point in the game where the PCs are. So, floor one Lynx would be the form that you see at the beginning of the game in Viper Mansion, not Dark Serge or FATE or anything like that.

superaielman · « **Reply #29 on:** February 27, 2008, 07:37:55 PM »

*Smacks forehead* That makes more sense.

Taishyr · « **Reply #30 on:** February 27, 2008, 11:00:00 PM »

Team Test vs. FF1 Garland and Bowser (Bosses who kidnapped Princesses)
Team Test vs. Kwanda, Onix, Humphrey (Durable)
Team Test vs. Jogurt, Ramus, Euram Barrows, Big Joe, Gobi, Kelvena (Joke Characters)
Team Test vs. Luna, Ricardo, Lucia (Buffers)
Team Test vs. Lynx and Gaffgarion (Earlygame bosses that are stupid or something)

Mmm. Lynx and Gafgarion is now a dangerous fight off the one before it, I'm inclined to say. What's Kelvena do?

Also... Hm, Bowser there... well, he should be alright, I'm inclined to say... mmm. Lemme think, but this does look better.

Magic Fanatic · « **Reply #31 on:** February 27, 2008, 11:04:18 PM »

Team Test vs. FF1 Garland and Bowser (Bosses who kidnapped Princesses)
Team Test vs. Kwanda, Onix, Humphrey (Durable)
Team Test vs. Jogurt, Ramus, Euram Barrows, Big Joe, Gobi, Kelvena (Joke Characters)
Team Test vs. Luna, Ricardo, Lucia (Buffers)
Team Test vs. Lynx and Gaffgarion (Earlygame bosses that are stupid or something)

...Battle 1 is scary off the bat with Bowser's Terrorize, unless the team has MT status healing...
...Battle 2 is agreeable, since they don't really have any tricks other than "be tanky" and "hit stuff".
...Battle 3 is awesome as it is.
...Battle 4 can get REALLY hard if the team doesn't have a lot of high MT damage.
...Battle 5 really can turn out not fair, just for Gaff being there.

Nephrite · « **Reply #32 on:** February 27, 2008, 11:32:01 PM »

Quote

Hmm. Lynx and Gafgarion is now a dangerous fight off the one before it, I'm inclined to say. What's Kelvena do?

She has 25% Single Target healing.

Also, I could switch the Buffer Fight and the Joke Fight's places, if that would even things out a bit.

dude789 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 28, 2008, 01:40:56 AM »

I don't think Bowser would be that bad. His status wears off pretty quickly. Gaffgarion shouldn't be a problem if the team can rush him.

Yakumo · « **Reply #34 on:** February 28, 2008, 01:42:50 AM »

Quote from: Magic Fanatic on February 27, 2008, 11:04:18 PM

Team Test vs. FF1 Garland and Bowser (Bosses who kidnapped Princesses)
Team Test vs. Kwanda, Onix, Humphrey (Durable)
Team Test vs. Jogurt, Ramus, Euram Barrows, Big Joe, Gobi, Kelvena (Joke Characters)
Team Test vs. Luna, Ricardo, Lucia (Buffers)
Team Test vs. Lynx and Gaffgarion (Earlygame bosses that are stupid or something)

...Battle 1 is scary off the bat with Bowser's ize, unless the team has MT status healing...
...Battle 2 is agreeable, since they don't really have any tricks other than "be tanky" and "hit stuff".
...Battle 3 is awesome as it is.
...Battle 4 can get REALLY hard if the team doesn't have a lot of high MT damage.
...Battle 5 really can turn out not fair, just for Gaff being there.

Maybe this scaling isn't as easy to understand as I thought. I'm pretty sure boss Bowser at the beginning of his game doesn't have Terr0rize. That move doesn't show up until later in the game, if I'm not mistaken? Correct me if I am, of course.

Gaff... well, I'm not particularly well-versed in FFT, but it seems to me that any boss from that game is very vulnerable to a combined beatdown, being pretty close to PC HP? I don't know how most of you guys scale that stuff, but I mostly consider them as PCs, so he doesn't have a ton of durability respect from me, and his drain, while solid, is a non-factor if he gets piled on. It's a solid fight, but I would kneejerk it as not too hard. Also, I'm not sure what you're getting at with the buffers. Unless a team is very resource reliant, they aren't going to lose a ton there, the buffers need to use turns to buff or heal or die quickly, no? So either they stall and don't do much damage, or they attack, still don't do a ton of damage, and then just die, unless I'm missing something. The problem comes if a team is very reliant on MP to do damage, which earlygame I wouldn't expect them to be, in most cases. Usually mage physicals aren't THAT far behind yet that early, though there are exceptions.

Nephrite · « **Reply #35 on:** February 28, 2008, 02:25:26 AM »

I would probably consider Bowser to be PC Bowser, unless Boss Bowser sucks less than I remember him sucking. (Is there any way to lose? ...granted, the same could be said of Garland... )

Yakumo · « **Reply #36 on:** February 28, 2008, 02:30:48 AM »

Team Test vs. FF1 Garland and Bowser (Bosses who kidnapped Princesses) <- I assumed from the way you worded this that you were considering them both bosses. If not, that's going to need clarification. <_<

Magic Fanatic · « **Reply #37 on:** February 28, 2008, 02:52:28 AM »

Quote from: Nephrite on February 28, 2008, 02:25:26 AM

I would probably consider Bowser to be PC Bowser, unless Boss Bowser sucks less than I remember him sucking. (Is there any way to lose? ...granted, the same could be said of Garland... )

Yeah, you CAN lose to Boss Bowser... If you never attack the chain behind him. So in that case, he kind of acts like Ozzie or something. As I've HEARD about people doing LLG runs (I don't know why, but they exist), Bowser does start with Terrorize, regardless of what level you get him at (even level 3, which is apparently the lowest Mario can be), so... Yeah.

Nephrite · « **Reply #38 on:** February 28, 2008, 02:59:12 AM »

Quote from: Yakumo on February 28, 2008, 02:30:48 AM

Team Test vs. FF1 Garland and Bowser (Bosses who kidnapped Princesses) <- I assumed from the way you worded this that you were considering them both bosses. If not, that's going to need clarification. <_<

It's been fix'ed.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #39 on:** February 28, 2008, 03:35:50 AM »

Bowser starts with Poison Cloud and Terrorize, IIRC, answering to Yakko.

Yakumo · « **Reply #40 on:** February 28, 2008, 03:52:08 AM »

I said BOSS Bowser, Snow. Remember, at the time the description said "bosses that kidnap princesses" so I assumed he meant the Bowser you fight on the chandeliers at the very beginning of the game. >_>

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #41 on:** February 29, 2008, 06:39:08 PM »

... but Bowser's SMRPG boss form is essentially an unrankable plot fight.

Yakumo · « **Reply #42 on:** February 29, 2008, 10:10:07 PM »

Like I remember SMRPG that well. >_> I played the game once. When it was new. I'm surprised I remembered the fight existed at all. <_<

Nephrite · « **Reply #43 on:** March 01, 2008, 04:57:35 PM »

Since it seems most people approve of the first floor (although I may slightly alter it here and there) does anyone have any recommendations on who could be added to the list of picks? In case anyone has forgotten, the link is RIGHT HERE

I could probably take a few of the less chosen or ambiguous people off of there and clean it up a bit... Maybe add some more Capsules and give them a description. I'll see if I can do that today.

Edit: I will be taking Jogurt away, most likely.

Capsule Monsters (Free)

FFT Hyudra

Advantages: Hits really hard, durable.
Disadvantages: Rather one-dimensional and weak to common elements.

Ogre Battle Wizard

Advantages: Can hit a variety of elemental weaknesses. Will eventually become a Lich.
Disadvantages: About as durable as a paper plate until much later.

Ogre Battle Dragon

Advantages: Tough and hits pretty hard. Promotes into Tiamat and Zombie Dragons later.
Disadvantages: Not too accurate at the start and can't really do much besides bite people.

Brigandine Angel

Advantages: Good damage in Divine Ray and can Heal. Becomes Lucifer much later, giving it a variety of abilities.
Disadvantages: Divine Ray is pretty much once per floor until a bit later. Dies when hit with Dark attacks.

FF1 Monk

Advantages: Hits things hard.
Disadvantages: Not durable near the beginning.

Brig Hydra

Advantages: NOM NOM NOM NOM, also counters. Lots of HP at the start.
Disadvantages: Very easily killed with magic.

SoE Dog

Advantages: Durable, high health. Hits hard. Later on it's Toaster Dog!
Disadvantages: Can't use sniff to find alchemy reagents. Kinda slow.

Lucia (Lunar2)

Advantages: OWNS THE FIRST TWO FIGHTS. Lots of helpful buffers, depending on interpretations.
Disadvantages: Interpretation nightmare.

Peter

Advantages: Auto resurrects after battles. Pretty durable.
Disadvantages: Average speed, I guess?

...you know, doing this I've discovered how one-dimensional all the capsules really are. I'll probably scrap most of them and find new ideas.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #44 on:** March 01, 2008, 09:58:05 PM »

Should add the Soul Nomad Pyremage to that list...

OblivionKnight · « **Reply #45 on:** March 01, 2008, 11:02:01 PM »

Assuming this is coming from the standpoint of Lufia 2, Capsule Monsters are there to grow over time, get stronger, and have some use. Usually damage, though some have support skills. They were divided into 6 elements. Mmm...

Fewer ones with more quality that grows over time might work best. Maybe 6 that are very distinct. Like...mmm...

Mint (healer - obviously, take her off the other side)
A status whore (uh...a VP2 archer?)
Pure damage (SAMSON FROM BtB!)

Stuff like that.

dude789 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 02, 2008, 01:47:25 AM »

Mint is way too good to be a capsule. Someone like Ronfar or FF X-2 WM would be better as a capsule.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #47 on:** March 02, 2008, 02:06:17 AM »

I've never really cared for the arbitrary distinction between capsules and non-capsules, since a lot of people (I know I did) ended up voting on them as if they were normal PCs anyway. This is just semantics, though.

Nephrite · « **Reply #48 on:** March 02, 2008, 02:43:49 AM »

Based on the feedback, I've decided to slightly alter how Capsule monsters will work.

*They are still free.
*You can still only choose one.
*Treat them as you would any PC.

The Capsule Monsters (Redeux) are now:

Mint, Tales of Phantasia (Healer)

Monk, Final Fantasy 1 (Physical Damage)

Lemina, Lunar: Eternal Blue (Magical Damage)

Oracle, Final Fantasy Tactics (Status Infliction)

This way, you can freely choose based on what you feel your team could use more of. Although Mint may be considered better than this, all she has for a majority of the game is a single target healing spell, so I believe this to be relatively balanced and fair.

Please do continue to offer feedback, it's very helpful.

EDIT: Changed Genis to Lemina.

superaielman · « **Reply #49 on:** March 02, 2008, 02:55:41 AM »

That looks pretty awesome actually, though I'd pick a better known PC than Genis. Jade maybe, keeping with the Tales theme?

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Author Topic: The return of Nyarlathotep's Dungeon! (Read 10437 times)

Taishyr