The return of Nyarlathotep's Dungeon!

[Grefter]

I thought ToS had better market penetration than TotA though.

[superaielman]

This isn't board 8 or even the DL, TotA's got better internal among the typical voter's and Jade's a better fighter to boot.

[Yakumo]

That "better fighter" thing is a good reason for him NOT to be a capsule.  If the capsules are free, they shouldn't be all that good. <_<

[superaielman]

Genis feels pretty underpowered for a capsule monster. Jade's roughly comparable to the rest of the options, which is to say useful but doesn't really pick up steam till late.

[Yakumo]

I like Neph's new idea better than both anyway. >_>

[superaielman]

Oh. yeah, Lemina was my suggestion as well.

[VySaika]

Aw, no more toaster dog? ;_;

[Nephrite]

Here's a basic rundown of what I have so far in terms of choices for the Dungeon, I've removed a few people and added others--I'll bold the additions. If anyone has any other thoughts, feel free to let me know.

Godlike (4): Athos, Cecilia, Rika, T.G. Cid, Tir, Yuri1, Zerase

Borderline (3.5): Aeonless Yuna, Angelo, Benjamin, Citan, Deis1, Deis2, Demi, Guv, Jessica, KOS-MOS, Purim, Ryu4, Ted, Terra,Yuri2, Zemeckis

Heavy (3): Alakazam, Alena, Alex, Alys, Angela, Billy, Cecil, Chris, Edgar, Emily, Ephraim, FFT Chemist, Gau, Geddoe, Geno, Hiro, Hugo, Jerin, Magus, Momo, Nate (P2), Nel, Ness, Nina1, Nina4, Raquel, Riou, Rune, Ryu1, Tidus, Toadstool, Wren

Borderline: (2.5): Arnaud, Carlie, Claude, Crono, Eileen, FF1 Knight, FF5 Mystic Knight, FFT Ninja, Garnet, Karn, Jean (Lunar2), Lexis Shaia, Lyn, Lyon(S5), Max (ShF), Millenia, Nash (Lunar), Popoi, Quina, Rei(BoF3), Robo, Rose, Rudy (WA1), Rydia, Ursula, Zozma

Middle (2): Aika, Beowulf, Bow, Duran, Eiko, FF5 Red Mage, Hawk, Hellion, Jane (ACF), Lilka, Lucca, Marisa, Marle, Nina2, Philia, Prince (S5), Rutee, Selan, Snorlax (FRLG), Tengaar, White Rose, Yulie, Ziggy

Borderline (1.5) Bernadette, Blanca, Cray, FF1 DoS White Wizard, Jean (BoF2), Juan, Marcus, Pikachu (FRLG), Rena, Ricardo, Rikku, Sarah (ShF2), Virginia

Light (1): Aeris (w/ Restore Materia), Banon, Beecham, DW1 Hero, Erk, FF5 Mime, Lucia, Mallow, Mia, Moulder, Nei, Palom, Porom, Raja, Rand, Rennac,  Zhuzhen,

Puny (.5): Malak, FFT Time Mage, FFT Priest, Nina3, Onix

Capsules (Free / 1): FF1 Monk, Mint, Lemina, FFT Oracle

[superaielman]

Hawk in 2.5 range? Am I forgetting something about him? He doesn't really get a skillset or anything of note till midgame and isn't overwhelmingly good till his final transformation.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Three Dragon Quest healers (Guv, Angelo, Cristo) feels like overkill to me.

Overall roster looks pretty good.

[Nephrite]

Hawk in 2.5 range? Am I forgetting something about him? He doesn't really get a skillset or anything of note till midgame and isn't overwhelmingly good till his final transformation.

His stat downs seem pretty useful, at least in a team setting like this. They were MT, if I'm not mistaken.

Three Dragon Quest healers (Guv, Angelo, Cristo) feels like overkill to me.

Overall roster looks pretty good.

You're right, I'll ditch Cristo. I can't remember what I was thinking, hah.

[Yakumo]

They were MT in one of his final classes, yes, but if I'm not mistaken the last class change is pretty much endgame?  I never did manage to get an emulator to hold together long enough and my interest high enough to finish that game. <_<  I'm pretty sure he's just physicals until the first and ST stat downs until the second change, though.

Ask Meep, he'll know.

[Nephrite]

Hmm, you're right. I'll put him down at 2, then.

[074]

Wasn't Carlie already there, or does she just get a shift in division?

Not getting the increase of FE characters myself, and not quite getting how Athos gets Godlike (What with only being Heavy in DL, and FE not being too big of a game when it comes to team-player types), but then again, more of opinion or something.


Also, Hawk gets a MT tech on his Light path first classchange, but, uh, yeah.  Dark Path tends to be liked more for statdowns anyway.  2 sounds right.

[OblivionKnight]

Would people just...assume whatever class SD3/FE8 people might want?  I guess that's for the best.

Athos in Godlike...does feel a bit odd.  Early on he's got...Forblaze and Aureola (and Armads/Sol Katti/Durandal!), though limited charges will hurt.  Outside of that...dark magic...don't know if you'd allow or consider how he gets it in-game, since he's the end person.  Mmm...

I'd probably say drop him a bit (3.5 or even 3.0).

In the dungeon team setting, Yuri2 feels better than Yuri1 to me, but meh, no a huge enough difference for me to care to really push to change them.

FE characters are easy to do - healers do healing well enough (if ST), and the damage adds up if they don't suck.  Decent enough overall, usually.

Though, P2 Nate...damn, need to finish getting stats on him now.

[074]

Athos getting Forblaze and Aureola early?  That sounds like giving Orlandu Excalibur early on--which, note, he doesn't.  I'm not sure Athos would get such a concession either.

[OblivionKnight]

To be fair, Forblaze is unique to him, but yeah, I can see not doing that early.

Which means he's...all magic with staves.  Decent enough, at least.  Not a Godlike, though.

[Dark Holy Elf]

The problem with Athos is he has no growth rates, so it's kinda difficult to say how good he'd be early on. I guess you can extrapolate back linearly easily enough, in which case... yeah, good but definitely not Godlike. Maybe if Fortify became legal for him, but FE7 Fortify is super-late anyway, so it's still not going to fly.

I think Nailah is the best choice for an uber FE character in this format, since she's actually around from near the start of the game. This ignores that FE10 has playership issues, though (though, it's vaguely in sight of FFMQ!). <_< Also I am totally unbiased here obviously.

[Nephrite]

My apologies, I didn't explain Athos, Super suggested the idea to me and I completely forgot to explain it.

I would be using him as kind of a test PC, a guinea pig, of sorts. He'd retain the stats he has at endgame and be given certain things to balance him. For example, on Floor 1, he'd have a Heal Staff and Bolting. (Thus limiting his damage to 5 shots) and on the second floor he'd have something else added onto him, eventually obtaining his unique spells around floor 6 or 7, probably.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[Dark Holy Elf]

That's a pretty neat idea, although what he gets when should probably be spelled out (at least, the important details - in particular, the floor on which he gets Fire, or whatever his first spammable spell is) before he is picked.

[Taishyr]

Yeah. One thing that'd probably help is going through the group and saying who gets what when, or a decent approximation thereof. You could easily whip people into doing that for you, I'd think. (For example you also want to define what personas Nate gets, and probably provide a general idea of what they can do. >_> I'm willing to help in this, but it'll take me a bit longer to get that far.)

[Nephrite]

Yeah, I think I might say on 3 or 4. Maybe he'll get a SLEEP STAFF too.

As for your comment, Tai, I could probably do that for more obscure things without a problem. Who else would you recommend I do it with?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Hmm, I dunno. Arguably part of the fun of the game is getting to decide who gets what when. e.g. you can debate whether Wren gets Positron Bolt on floor 5 or floor 6, or whatever. Generally I'd frown on setting that in stone. If we do spell some of these things out, it should be to help people who might not know the character vote (Nate sounds like a good example, since he's a lower vote draw and when he gets which Persona makes a huge difference). And I'd put in a statement that if you want to vote on Nate getting a particular Persona later/earlier than the "official" way (because you disagree with it), that's cool.


This obviously doesn't apply to Guinea-Pig-Athos, since when he gets each equip is completely arbitrary; the whole point is that it's up to the dungeon master. As a result, his upgrades should definitely be spelled out, and generally adhered to. (Though possibly exception for fluidity can exist, e.g. "Floor 6: Athos gets Nosferatu, if you normally allow it to him in the DL.")

[Nephrite]

I agree with that. I'll look through the list and pick out some more obscure things--I'd like to leave it generally up to people to decide.

Do you think it'd be worth it to make a chart with a "general" idea of where various games are in terms of the floor, to give people some guidance, or just leave it up to everyone on their own?

[Taishyr]

Okay. Looking straight at the list and eying possible interpbait people...


Godlike (4): Athos

Borderline (3.5):  Purim - Purim spell timing; that's pretty much her entire worth and since she's this high up.... Applies to Popoi to a lesser extent.

Heavy (3): Angela, Nate (P2) - Mainly thinking of when Angela/Carlie get formchanges (My question re: Yuri1 applies especially to SD3 members early on as well - they badly want Light as soon as they can get it, I feel), you've heard me out on Nate.

Borderline: (2.5): Carlie - See above. Lexis, you may want to say whether or not he gets that MT physical early.

Middle (2): --- Well, there's Hawk, but he mainly just wants to know when he changes jobs.

Looking at the rest, there's nothing as big. These are just the main problems I remember from previous incarnations.

Ninja Monkey Edit: The chart may be cool, yeah, but I'm pretty sure I'm more concerned about timing than most.