Season 54, Week 5

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike:
Loki (VP1) vs Ryu (BoF3)- Curses, didn't think Ryu would actually win. Not like that changes my vote here, because I sure as hell respect Loki going first in VP a lot more than Ryu being marginally above average speed (Especially since I waffle on whether Garr even wants that 15 weight spear. The damage is a good boost, but at the cost of 9 speed and the HP eating...well, that's another story. But it ties into the fact that even if Ryu wants to say ditch all his equipment, BoF 3 is just too much a game where you'd say that the DL's emphasis on speed likely wants everyone to ditch a lot of equipment to ensure better damage, completely warping averages. Ergo, I just kind of toss it out).

Heavy:
Fei Wong Fong (XG) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4)

Middle:
Kanji Tatsumi (P4) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4)- Auto Suku...I think. Kanji does OHKO, but he needs to do it twice. Granted, he could just live past it and still have the HP anyways (Especially with a Silence blocker to block Yukiko's Silence)...Hmm...

Light:
Landis (S3) vs Serph (DDS)

[Yoshiken]

Kanji Tatsumi (P4) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4) - I.. think he can get the two hits in before Yukiko takes him out. Auto-Suku lasts for three of Yukiko's turns, during which he can easily defend and take minimal damage, with a Silence blocker... Then, he'll probably get another few turns with which to kill, and I'd definitely see him pulling it off.
Yeah, he's definitely too tanky for Middle, especially with Endure. >.>

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Loki (VP) - Being marginally above average speed > not having a speed stat and winning tiebreaks to me.

Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs. Naoto Shirogane (P4) - Hilariously spoils: not only Fei is ID-vulnerable, Naoto immunes both his highest damage skills, and without those, he risks not even 2HKOing through evade, and that's a great way to get yourself owned by Naoto when you don't immune ID. Somewhere, Wugui smiles wickedly and Fei curses splattering most of the people who could stop Naoto's rampage. gj, Heavy.

Kanji Tatsumi (P4) vs. Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Kanji doesn't OHKO Yukiko even under Tarukaja unless you don't take Souji in the averages (and there's no reason for that when he's rankable). Given how limited his 2HKO to her is, that's a great way for him to lose. She probably doesn't even bother with Miori Shirt here. Yukiko even has good Luck, which should keep Kanji's crit chances down, and she has some evade even without Miori, which drags the odds of crit hype down further.

Landis (S3) vs. Serph (DDS) - Serph curses Landis' magical tankishness and gets stunned to oblivion.

[superaielman]

Ryu- Thank god I was spared Loki/Kefka finals.
Naoto- Spoiling. Fei is the strongest dueller she can beat in the DL and she draws him in the finals. Freak luck.
Kanji- See his physical OHKOing Yukiko.
Landis- Magic tankiness.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Naoto- Spoiling. Fei is the strongest dueller she can beat in the DL and she draws him in the finals. Freak luck.

Ted/Riou want to argue that with you, and so does S2 Tir.

... although dear god Ted vs. Naoto is a failfest like few others.

[superaielman]

Strongest heavy, I should say.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Hm, probably. Although there could be an argument for Ness, but not even sure if Ness, even if he beats him, is as good as Fei.

[DjinnAndTonic]

XG doesn't have any ID blockers?

Oh wait, I think those only exist for the Gear version of ID... something like "Destroy Cockpit" or whatever they call it. I think there's some kind of common Gear part like "Engine Guard" or whatever that blocks it?

Hmm... might be a good time to finish that Gear stat comparison. Fei might care about his Gear form if it gets him ID protection... >.>;;

[superaielman]

Hm, probably. Although there could be an argument for Ness, but not even sure if Ness, even if he beats him, is as good as Fei.

Ness's durability game feels overrated in practice. Godlike blitzers (Rashidi, Loki) can overwhelm him regardless, and he's not great on damage.  Status is too common at that point as well. Like Maxim with spells, he doesn't translate as well as you'd expect to the format.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Yeah, that's my kneejerk as well, super. I think Ness' loss to Nina1 is pretty telling, and it's also telling that he'd lose to Nina4 as well due to the GODLY ID STAFF.

XG doesn't have any ID blockers?

Oh wait, I think those only exist for the Gear version of ID... something like "Destroy Cockpit" or whatever they call it. I think there's some kind of common Gear part like "Engine Guard" or whatever that blocks it?

Hmm... might be a good time to finish that Gear stat comparison. Fei might care about his Gear form if it gets him ID protection... >.>;;

No. Just no. <_<

[074]

There's no Gear ID in the game as far as I'm aware.  Overkill damage (hi, Alpha Weltall!), sure, but no Gear ID.


Anyway, actual votes.


Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs. Naoto Shirogane (P4) - Fei hates this matchup.  Kokei and Yamikei utterly fail against Light and Dark nulling.  His other HDBs don't do nearly as much damage.  And there's no ID protection in Xenogears.

Fei hates this matchup.

Kanji Tatsumi (P4) vs. Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Yeah.  Sure, I can see Kanji OHKOing under Taru(Assuming the value on the stat topic was base value).  He's got to do it twice, though.  And he goes second.  Even worse, he's burning a good bit of HP on those starting Primal Force attempts.  ...and Yukiko's getting at least two Agidynes in before Kanji gets a Primal Force to land.  Which means...Kanji runs out of offense well before Yukiko does and has to resort to ZIODYNE to try to get damage in while he gets pasted with Agidyne after healing to full once.  Yukiko wins, clearly.

[OblivionKnight]

Godlike:
Loki (VP1) vs Ryu (BoF3) - Ryu...probably shouldn't be here >_>  Nonetheless, Loki smash, so some things do work out in the end!  Ryu can't kill him in time at all.  Indiscriminate still eats through dragons fine.

Heavy:
Fei Wong Fong (XG) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4) - Naoto.  Don't see her immuning Fei's elemental deathblows.  On the other hand, I do see him dying to a Mudoon/Hamaon, and Naoto gets two shots of it, and is faster, so...

Middle:
Kanji Tatsumi (P4) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Man, poor Kanji.  Yukiko wins this....well...mmm...yeah.  Praying for a critical is a bit too much here - he needs it, which helps him eat her Endure.  GRANTED...he might make it....except Auto-Suku nukes his game too much for him to make up for it.  Even Auto-Raku or Auto-Taru can't catch up enough.  Poor guy. 

Light:
Landis (S3) vs Serph (DDS) - ...

[Nephrite]

Loki vs. Ryu3 - Uh... yeah, Ryu probably.

Kanji vs. Yukiko - Hashed this out a bit with Snow. Kanji has a 20% Fire reduction weapon. If Yukiko opens with the Miori shirt, Kanji just defends until the turn before it wears off, casts Tarukaja and then probably easily 2HKOs her even with the reduced damage of the weapon. If she doesn't go for the Miori shirt, I think Rakukaja and then Tarukaja put her too much on the defensive to do anything. It's a fun match though!

[James_xeno]

Heavy:
Fei Wong Fong (XG) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4) - Naoto.  Don't see her immuning Fei's elemental deathblows.  On the other hand, I do see him dying to a Mudoon/Hamaon, and Naoto gets two shots of it, and is faster, so...

If you don't see her immuning elemental DBs, then how does she get two shots? She's only like 106% speed, and best case with equipment, for her only, still doesn't make her fast enough (115%) to outspeed Fei. (120%) As for her ID. An Ether Veiler takes care of Mudoon/Hamaon for at least one turn.

[Sei]

Loki (VP1) vs Ryu (BoF3) - Basically a quick-draw match. I see Loki going first in VP as going first against Ryu.

[Paltheos]

Godlike:
Loki (VP1) vs Ryu (BoF3): I thought about this one for a while. If Loki's faster, he wins. Maybe not on turn one, since Ryu can tweak his equipment to soften the blows, but he won't hold out against Loki. If Ryu's faster, he can cut through Loki's poor magic defense with something like Thunder+Eldritch and spam Mjollnir, and Eldritch's INT boost makes surviving a turn of Loki's magic attacks plausible. Thunder+Fire+Eldritch might be better. I don't know if he'd survive Extension Force otherwise and gives him better chances against Indiscriminate. At first I was gonna give it to Loki hands down but Indiscriminate being magic damage (and random elemental) makes me think again. Most of Loki's best attacks being magical or elemental work against him here. I don't remember how high chances of KOing are from his regular physicals, but if it's respectable, he can stop Ryu that way since all dragons bar Kaiser and Tiamat (which won't be seeing play) have no ID immunity and don't retain defensive properties from Ryu's equips.

Haven't played P4 or DDS.

EDIT: Wow, you're right. Thanks, Pyro. I didn't know Kaiser Breath ignored defense. Yeah, Ryu wins this one.

[Pyro]

If Ryu gets a turn, he should be able to turn into Kaiser and laugh off any of Loki's elemental/physical attempts to hurt Kaiser's elemental/physical mocking self. Loki might have some problems mocking Ryu when he gets hit with the ITD Kaiserbreath, though.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Ryu is faster than Loki to me, and Landis is a damn good magical tank who reduces even 99 Magic Serph to a 5HKO. On average, unevasive fighters get 3 attacks before Landis freezes them forever (2 if they're slow) so yeah. Pretty much confirmed what I suspected but never got numbers for, Landis >> mages who don't spoil his game.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Ryu is faster than Loki to me, and Landis is a damn good magical tank who reduces even 99 Magic Serph to a 5HKO. On average, unevasive fighters get 3 attacks before Landis freezes them forever (2 if they're slow) so yeah. Pretty much confirmed what I suspected but never got numbers for, Landis >> mages who don't spoil his game.

I'm confused... if Serph has 3 turns against Landis, what's stopping him from using his turn 2 Charm status to shut down Landis?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Serph needs to transform back to human form to be able to use it and then has to transform back to capitalize on it (because the damage he deals with human form physicals is like 8% PC HP). Given how Landis also can't hit himself when he's charmed and Charm usually lasts three turns at most, that's just delaying the inevitable. And there's the fact that, while Landis' evade sucks, he still has some, and that may well put that Charm rate below turn two to boot.

[DjinnAndTonic]

*nods* Okay. Just checking on this since I can't remember, but can DDS Charm be reapplied while the status is active? If so, then I'd kneejerk that Serph just uses his awesome 8% physical to eventually wear down a Charm-locked Landis.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Don't think it does. That's more typical of older SMT games.

EDIT: Not to mention a charm-lock that lasts that long off a status that inaccurate is just unlikely, odds are bound to go against Serph more often than not, particularly given how by the time it hits on average, Landis is likely to have hit Serph for three turns (one for the turn wasted transforming, one for the stun, one for a presumably missed charm attempt).

[Dark Holy Elf]

Too late to matter, but I don't consider gun status legal for the same reason I don't consider the entire FFX cast to have Sleepstrike and Silencestrike. Non-unique status weapons are no go.

[SageAcrin]

As for me, I forgot them.

But the ridiculously big book(s) of japanese DDS mechanics I got from Djinn at DLC4(these things are handy and cool!) peg those status rates at 40% anyways, and I tend to trust the books more than the stat topic, as they fit my memories closer in general(Luck seems to play a major factor in DDS status, though, so I suppose if you saw Serph's luck as high it would matter.). So Jo'ou's assessment (That he'd transform, get a stun, and get a status miss, or two stuns, or two status misses) is about right based on 66% odds needed to be successful(Since the stuns would lower that).

Results may vary a lot there. But yeah, I just forgot. >_>