Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Monado Mandala Week 13

[superaielman]

Team Piggyman vs, FFT Squire 5x (Nagrarock (25% Frog))- Good at annoying, but yeah.
Team Piggyman vs. Kanji and Yosuke- Can be overwhelmed. Yosuke's MT confuse is annoying, but both are mostly ST focused for damage.
Team Piggyman vs. Chie and Yukiko- Doubt Yukiko gets a turn, Chie isn't much by herself.
Team Piggyman vs. Nel, Fayt and Cliff- Cid goes straight for the MP kill on Cliff. don't think Nel/Fayt can overwhelm them after that. Freeze isn't a concern, Piggy can just kill whoever gets frozen after killing Nel and revive/heal up.
Team Piggyman vs. Genevieve- Genevieve can't overwhelm a mostly full strength team by herself.

Tenative pass on Yoshiken's team. Need to FAQ Cielo.

Team Talaysen vs, FFT Squire 5x (Nagrarock (25% Frog))- The fight's annoying, but yeah provoke counters until everyone isn't frogged. Shouldn't be too hard.
Team Talaysen vs. Kanji and Yosuke- Jude does something, Yosuke OHKOs Yulie. Arnaud Illusions Kanji, who is still faster than Raquel and Ziodynes her to minor effect. Raquel ... I think needs to OHKO Yosuke, or Raquel could be facing getting wiped out. Do I buy that? Sure. Yosuke's losing HP from using Brave Blade. Raquel very likely gets killed this fight, but Jude/Arnaud should win it.
Team Talaysen vs. Chie and Yukiko[/b]-  Arnaud's faster than the field. Illusion kills Chie's offense. Yukiko+Chie have an excellent chance of killing Raquel, but doesn't matter.
Team Talaysen vs. Nel, Fayt and Cliff- Jude does something useless, Arnaud illusions... Cliff? We'll go with Cliff. Nel OHKOs Yulie, Cliff fails. Raquel OHKOs Nel.
Team Talaysen vs. Genevieve- Genevieve OHKOs every single person here besides for Jude and still burns horribly. That auto revival skill is very neat. Jude shoots- Gen counters with CE, Arnaud Illusions and that's fight.

[Clear Tranquil]

Cliff's Hammer of Might and Aerial Assault ignore Evade/aren't based off HIT.

Garnet is above average speed, but... FF9 speed spread isn't that significant. And if I'm recalling correctly, summons are slow to cast. I just don't see 27 speed to a 25 average as beating out Nel, who's noticeably faster than most of the cast at this stage.

Yeah that's what I was thinking ... but I don't remember if Garnet/Eiko have any actual "stuck in casting pose" for summons or if it's just summon animation time. That could be used for tie breaks I guess or if you're not forcing Nel to turn based she could smack Garnet before the summon hits yeah. I don't know what other way to see it, the screen fills during summoning and the only things that act during that time are things like Regen/Auto Regen >_>

Adray has Cure Condition, which removes ALL negative SO3 status ailments, Freeze included.

Uhhh .... are you sure about that? The description says cures poison, paralysis and petrification not cures all status ailments. I tried to test Cure Condition vs freeze in case it just wasn't listed with the other three but Nel kept getting shattered by enemy physicals and dying before Adray could finish casting <_<

[Monkeyfinger]

Garnet's summons don't have an added charge time. You're thinking of FF8 and the SRPGs.

[Clear Tranquil]

*Clear Tranquil nods*

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Cliff's Hammer of Might and Aerial Assault ignore Evade/aren't based off HIT.

Much like damn near any attack in SO3 for all practical purposes. Accuracy and evade are basically irrelevant stats in SO3, but you don't see people hyping basically everything in SO3 as ITE. Quite the contrary, actually: often people tend to mock quite a few attacks against evade in it (ahahahahaha insanity prelude), much like it happens in TotA (ahahahahaha largo mystic artes). There is a blocking thing that only happens ever if you have an egregious level/stat advantage over the enemies, but that is nigh-impossible to take seriously.

[ThePiggyman]

Adray has Cure Condition, which removes ALL negative SO3 status ailments, Freeze included.

Uhhh .... are you sure about that? The description says cures poison, paralysis and petrification not cures all status ailments. I tried to test Cure Condition vs freeze in case it just wasn't listed with the other three but Nel kept getting shattered by enemy physicals and dying before Adray could finish casting <_<

Didn't test it, but that's how GameFAQs described it.

[Clear Tranquil]

...  why are you yelling? ;_;
=P

Hammer of Might/Aerial Assault/Kaboom/Air Raid etc are all type attacks that ignore whether or not enemies have egregious level/stat advantages or vice versa. You can't even -get- 9999 HIT to vs Solon's 9999 AGL but those skills bypass that whereas say Scatter Beam doesn't and that parry thing is a lot more noticable in general on Universe/4D even early on. Why should it be for all practical purposes when it's something that's being directly brought up? I just think it's perfectly viable that accuracy effecting skills don't effect Cliff when he still owns Solon w/th nerfed HIT. It's not just a HIT/AGL thing, those skills -ignore- parry. Hell I could in there and own Solon w/th L1 stats because Cliff's HIT is irrellevant. Well if Cliff had Hammer of Might at L1 >_> On the other hand I'd see Illusion working on Scatter Beam sure.

but you don't see people hyping basically everything in SO3 as ITE.

I don't either.

[ThePiggyman]

Turn order is looking like this; Cray > Orlandu > Garnet > Nel > Cliff > Fayt > Adray > Chemist.

Yeah, LOL at Garnet casting Bahamut being faster than Nel. Also, while I could buy a Cray-speeded Adray as faster than Cliff and Fayt, I don't think he's going before Nel.

The way I would see that strategy going down is: Cray speeds Adray, Orlandu attacks Nel, gets Frozen, Nel Freezes Adray, Garnet does her Bahamut thing, gets killed by Fayt/Cliff counter. Fayt/Cliff kill Chemist on their turns. Now the only one left moving is CRAY. And he's now suffering the speed 'penalty' from his sealstone.

It's close, though

See what Monkey said. FF9 summons don't have a speed penalty. Nel's not getting a turn if you take ARPG characters at average speed, and even then, Garnet likely goes first. She's not overly speedy, but she's above average by a fair enough margin.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

...  why are you yelling? ;_;

Hammer of Might/Aerial Assault/Kaboom/Air Raid etc are all type attacks that ignore whether or not enemies have egregious level/stat advantages or vice versa. You can't even -get- 9999 HIT to vs Solon's 9999 AGL but those skills bypass that whereas say Scatter Beams doesn't and that parry thing is a lot more noticable in general on Universe/4D even early on. Why should it be for all practical purposes when it's something that's being directly brought up? I just think it's perfectly viable that accuracy effecting skills don't effect Cliff when he still owns Solon w/th nerfed HIT. It's not just a HIT/AGL thing, those skills -ignore- parry. Hell I could in there and own Solon w/th L1 stats because Cliff's HIT is irrellevant. Well if Cliff had Hammer of Might at L1 >_>

What I mean is that it doesn't matter, because, effectively, SO3 skills can still be dodged or miss - just because they happen outside the utter failure that pass for accuracy/evade stats in the game (and honestly L4D/Universe are poor standards to take the stats against anyway), it doesn't mean they get a free ITE pass, especially when they can whiff in-game just fine - and I'd definitely see accuracy debuffs that are -actually good- hurting accuracy on those attacks as well, because the stronger, more useful effect gets precedence to me. TotA also has a similar issue, where things that cannot be blocked still are seen as getting owned by evasion, and TotA's block/accuracy stats don't fail nearly as hard as SO3's. I could even see Cliff's skills bypassing, say, Raquel's Blocker, but asking it to ignore evasion is plainly ridiculous to me when it's hardly pinpoint accuracy as it is.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Garnet's summons don't have an added charge time. You're thinking of FF8 and the SRPGs.

See what Monkey said. FF9 summons don't have a speed penalty. Nel's not getting a turn if you take ARPG characters at average speed, and even then, Garnet likely goes first. She's not overly speedy, but she's above average by a fair enough margin.

Garnet is above average speed, but... FF9 speed spread isn't that significant. And if I'm recalling correctly, summons are slow to cast. I just don't see 27 speed to a 25 average as beating out Nel, who's noticeably faster than most of the cast at this stage.

I was thinking that summons slowed down turns as is standard for ATB systems, but regardless I don't see Garnet as faster than Nel. I also don't hold ARPG characters to strictly average speed.

[ThePiggyman]

Oh, and my other votes.

Tal and Yoshi both pass. Arguments sound solid on both.

[Clear Tranquil]

Fair/Truth Snow. I just had my reasonings for saying they ignored evade due to my experiences, wasn't trying to force it on anyone. Sorry if it came across that way. There was reasoning in my mind for them to bypass evade since it was a direct HIT vs AGL thing with them ignoring it in game but yeah now that you've explained pitting them vs blockers but not evade works.

Eh everything and their dog is liable to whiff in SO3 sooner or later though, I didn't know people weighed that vs the actual blue parry shield thing but yeah. It is a very PC skill dependant game with every character.

TotA also has a similar issue, where things that cannot be blocked still are seen as getting owned by evasion, and TotA's block/accuracy stats don't fail nearly as hard as SO3's.

Ohhhh.

**

Piggy eh I dunno about that. There are two versions of Cure Condition, one is the spell Adray/Sophia learns and the other is a tactical skill picked up from a tome from Writing (auto blocks the majority of status effects but lowers DEF) Maybe that was the version you stumbled across? I'm not 100% sure that helps with freeze either though I'd have to check. I'll buy Nel as being Charmed though (according to the guys it's 100% *eyes Djinn*) but Fayt also has freeze. Admittedly character menu symbology isn't like battle skill chaining for statusing but Deep Freeze as a counter ... and it's one of those spells where if an enemy uses it and you're stuck it's like oh crap.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Fair/Truth Snow. I just had my reasonings for saying they ignored evade due to my experiences, wasn't trying to force it on anyone. Sorry if it came across that way. There was reasoning in my mind for them to bypass evade since it was a direct HIT vs AGL thing with them ignoring it in game but yeah now that you've explained pitting them vs blockers but not evade works.

No need to apologize, I wasn't yelling at you. I just come across as blunter than I need to be at times.

[Clear Tranquil]

I'm more sensitive/naive/fragile/pushable than I should be too. You'd think I would have learned by now after all I've been through in life but oh well >_>

I know, every time I see Dojima I see you and I feel like Nanako/Souji <_<

Team Yoshi vs Dungeon - Sure, I'll buy Geno/Juan/Cielo respect. Rosa and Yukiko are the weakest links but meh.

Team Piggy passes assuming -

* Adray is equipped with Anti Freezing Amulet + Amulet of Freedom (anti paralysis)

* Garnet w/th Body Temp

* Nel is Charmed ASAP

* Garnet casts Reflect to nerf Deep Freeze on Cray/Chemist/Cid (forgot about that)

* Cid nukes Cliff's MP. According to super he does have the MP busting skill now so yeah. For curiousity does he start with it or what?

*Garnet Blinds/Confuses someone? I might be imagining things but I think she has those stati.

Hnnmm. This team has the resources if allowed but it's calling for a lot in the team's favour. YMMV depending on Nel freeze/chaos/poison and Fayt freeze/paralysis respect though. At least Cliff is relatively easy to deal with as a dueller though.

Nel has chaos from her Special (variation of her physical like Peppita's counters and Maria's sidestep shot) but I'd understand if peeps didn't have respect for that.

Still this is an evil, evil floor Neph!

[ThePiggyman]

* Adray is equipped with Anti Freezing Amulet + Amulet of Freedom (anti paralysis)

My SO3 knowledge isn't vast, so I'll leave this one to your interpretation.

* Garnet w/th Body Temp

Garnet's got Body Temp via a Jade Armlet or a Maiden's Ring, both of which can realistically be obtained by now (maybe less so the Jade Armlet - Esto Gaza, but I recall it being obtained somewhere before, maybe through an ATE). If she's equipped with either, I'd allow Body Temp.

* Nel is Charmed ASAP

If you see Cray's Speed boost as working immediately, Chemist can get a turn before any of the SO3 characters do, and Charm Nel before she gets a turn. Otherwise, two of them (Cliff and Nel likely could) can probably kill Chemist, but that's taking away from their other priorities, and letting Cid do evil things to them, while Adray and Garnet can just pick up and heal Chemist. It also gives Garnet time to use status.

* Garnet casts Reflect to nerf Deep Freeze on Cray/Chemist/Cid (forgot about that)

Keep in mind, Reflect is ST, so she can't spend too, too much time using it on them. Although my guess is Cid and Chemist are the most likely targets, if you think Reflect is vital here.

* Cid nukes Cliff's MP. According to super he does have the MP busting skill now so yeah. For curiousity does he start with it or what?

I'm pretty sure Orlandu starts with just about all his Sword Skills. Whatever he didn't learn, he'd quickly learn on F2 or F3, so yes to MP busting.

*Garnet Blinds/Confuses someone? I might be imagining things but I think she has those stati.

Garnet has Blind, Confuse, Mini, Silence and Berserk to meddle with opponents.

Still this is an evil, evil floor Neph!

=)

[Clear Tranquil]

My SO3 knowledge isn't vast, so I'll leave this one to your interpretation.

Oh he has them, it's just a question of whether or not peeps allow multiple stati blockers or not. Personally I fall into the school if they have the slots for 'em they can equip 'em.

Garnet's got Body Temp via a Jade Armlet or a Maiden's Ring, both of which can realistically be obtained by now (maybe less so the Jade Armlet - Esto Gaza, but I recall it being obtained somewhere before, maybe through an ATE). If she's equipped with either, I'd allow Body Temp.

Thanks *nods* Niether of those significantly dent her defences? Probably doesn't matter but it might worth taking a look at how stati blockers work with Garnet/Eiko's defences for future references. I know there are peeps that don't allow the FF9 blockers even with the equips but yeah.

If you see Cray's Speed boost as working immediately, Chemist can get a turn before any of the SO3 characters do, and Charm Nel before she gets a turn. Otherwise, two of them (Cliff and Nel likely could) can probably kill Chemist, but that's taking away from their other priorities, and letting Cid do evil things to them, while Adray and Garnet can just pick up and heal Chemist. It also gives Garnet time to use status.

Yeah I'm seeing the versatility in your team now. Having three w/th support/revival helps a lot. All the arguments from both you and the guys in chat for Charm triggering on Nel have convinced me. With that and/or Cid ... yeah. Allowing Garnet room to mock them with status just isn't nice! =-)

Keep in mind, Reflect is ST, so she can't spend too, too much time using it on them. Although my guess is Cid and Chemist are the most likely targets, if you think Reflect is vital here.

Yeah that's what I was thinking.

I'm pretty sure Orlandu starts with just about all his Sword Skills. Whatever he didn't learn, he'd quickly learn on F2 or F3, so yes to MP busting.

All which is good to know. Thanks.

Having MP busting for SO3 characters completely turns the fight on it's ass. Fayt's MP ain't that hot either and Cliff is like the worst MP in the game w/th Roger. Nel has above average MP but she can't restore/regen it for herself or others and niether does she have revival so yeah.

Garnet has Blind, Confuse, Mini, Silence and Berserk to meddle with opponents.

That's quite a selection. Huh looks like Garnet is more of a status whore than Eiko >_>

=)

Oh god don't smile at me. It completely shattered my resolve when I saw that smile! =P

Ok there are enough checkpoints in your favour what w/th Cid and everything ...

Adray just waits for freeze/paralysis to wear off on allies in the event that anyone is nerfed with stati or Garnet pokes 'em. Yeah that works.

Team Piggy vs Dungeon

[DjinnAndTonic]

Oh yeah, before I forget to vote. Yoshiken passes.

[Nephrite]

Speaking of forgetting to vote, I'll be updating this tomorrow, so make sure you do vote.

[Taishyr]

Abstain on Tal's team, might change this vote but I need to math a fight out.

Piggy and Yoshiken both pass.