Author Topic: Season 55, Week 1 - Elc/Naoto WAFF fanfic is the most notable thing this week.  (Read 5725 times)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs Sierra Mikain (S2)
Elc (AtLC) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4)
Fereydoon (WA5) vs Dhaos (ToP)
X (MMXCM) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC)

Heavy

Saturos (GS) vs Ho-Oh (PKMN)
Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kaus Debonair (OB)
Emelia (SaGa) vs Nina Wyndia (BoF4)
Kasumi (Suikos) vs Zelos Wilder (ToS)

Middle

Ryudo (G2) vs Maya (LoL2)
Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC)
Elhaym van Houten (XG) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4)
Rikku (FFX) vs Nightburn Acklund (WA5)

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC)
Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT)
Leena (CC) vs Flonne (Disgaea)
Augst Henriksen (WA4) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dhyerwolf

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Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs Sierra Mikain (S2)
Elc (AtLC) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4)- Notably faster...even if I halved the effects of ATL 2 SDs, I think?
Fereydoon (WA5) vs Dhaos (ToP)
X (MMXCM) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC)

Heavy

Saturos (GS) vs Ho-Oh (PKMN)
Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kaus Debonair (OB)
Emelia (SaGa) vs Nina Wyndia (BoF4)
Kasumi (Suikos) vs Zelos Wilder (ToS)- No clue here. Zelos 2HKOs, but Kasumi is a lot faster, evasive. Gut says Zelos, but not cleanly enough to vote.

Middle

Ryudo (G2) vs Maya (LoL2)- Ryudo is MP intensive and not much faster.
Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC)- Luna has awesome defense buffing.
Elhaym van Houten (XG) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4)
Rikku (FFX) vs Nightburn Acklund (WA5)- Oh my braaaaaaain.

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC)
Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT)- Okay, let's say Cid 5HKOs Miluda just for random placing. Miluda...7HKOs him? Maybe 8? But she counters 70% of the time, 25% evasion=he 6HKOs (And if he 4HKOs, he 5HKOs, and no way does he 3HKO). Counter+Doubles+Evasion should mean she kills first.
Leena (CC) vs Flonne (Disgaea)- Leena's L7 might be auto-revive. Also, Flonne is Flonne.
Augst Henriksen (WA4) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Ryu (BoF3) vs Sierra Mikain (S2) - Thoughtless.
Elc (AtLC) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4) - Burn, Naoto.
X (MMXCM) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC) - Not as thoughtless to me, but I trust the initial kneejerk.

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kaus Debonair (OB) - This is horrible.
Emelia (SaGa) vs Nina Wyndia (BoF4) - Um yeah.

Ryudo (G2) vs Maya (LoL2) - Ryudo shouldn't 1.5HKO.
Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Not terribly fond of Luna being immune to physicals hype. Miakis can buff her offense and a good lucky string of crits+swings should be enough. Luna damage is terrible enough for this to happen.
Elhaym van Houten (XG) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Go to sleep. Elfboy smiles in his sleep from his deep underwater lair.

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC) - lol
Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT) - I like Dhyer's explanation and I'm sure as hell not mathing this fail-off out myself.
Augst Henriksen (WA4) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) - Screw you, Zhuzhen. ;_;
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dhyerwolf

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Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Not terribly fond of Luna being immune to physicals hype. Miakis can buff her offense and a good lucky string of crits+swings should be enough. Luna damage is terrible enough for this to happen.

Luna doesn't immune physicals, but about halves them after two turns. Granted, I didn't realize her healing was so bad! Vote could flip, but was that buffing like a 40% or something? Or was it bumped up to 50% in S5 (at least giving the turn 1 argument)? Still, might be worth it to math this one out.
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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I'm not sure how accurate Battlefield is, since in-game I never bothered with Shield Rune junk. Granted, given how Miakis is sensibly faster and Luna's damage is still poor, I think it's not too much of an issue to think she could get it off in time, particularly given how Miakis has both solid MDef and Mag (one of which at least should affect magical status accuracy in S5) and Yellow Scarf is nerfing the sleep odds there to begin with.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs Sierra Mikain (S2): Chomp chomp.
Elc (AtLC) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4): Invincible shuts her down. Extract kills her. Or Mind Buster works too probably.
Fereydoon (WA5) vs Dhaos (ToP): Big huge nontyped damage. Yes.

Heavy

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kaus Debonair (OB): Image? Image.
Emelia (SaGa) vs Nina Wyndia (BoF4): Isn't 2HKO'd?
Kasumi (Suikos) vs Zelos Wilder (ToS): Probably has evade or just 3-2s or something. Top tier suikospeed is nutty.

Middle

Ryudo (G2) vs Maya (LoL2): Not too sure here. Just kind of going with the flow.
Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC): I think? I'm not sure here either. She would lose without blocking sleep.
Elhaym van Houten (XG) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4): Perfect sleep.
Rikku (FFX) vs Nightburn Acklund (WA5): Rikku is really badass. Get up to Godlike!

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC): Free win!
Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT): She 3HKO's him and is 2HKO'd right back?
Leena (CC) vs Flonne (Disgaea): Not thinking too hard. I have seen a form of Flonne that wins this though!
Augst Henriksen (WA4) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1): Healing. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO saved by that healing.

Clear Tranquil

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Yellow Scarf hype? Baad!
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"

Jo'ou Ranbu

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If I allow BoF3 Protectors, S5 Yellow Scarves feel like a natural extension.

EDIT:

For a few relevant numbers on Kasumi:

S1 Kasumi has 195 speed to a 124.5 average, standard deviation of 30.6 (so, 2.3x SDs above average. To me, that's a pretty easy 3-2 to average, but how you see SDs can cleanly vary, and if you take TB speed literally, that's over 150% average speed anyway), deals 530 damage to a 520 average. Her Skill (a.k.a. evasion) is 157 to a 132 average. She is roughly Tir/Cleo-level evasion, which is solid enough but not amazing. Durability, she probably ends up averagish (574 HP to a 557 average, 217 defense to a 231 average).

S2 Kasumi has: 191 speed untwinked to a 130 average, 28.7 SD (2.12x SD above average), 231 speed twinked (which admittedly crushes her defense like a little bug), 512 damage to a 492 average and 148 Tech to a 132 average. 186 defense to a 216 average, 517 HP to a 551 average. She generally doesn't want this form, given how it's frailer than S1 Kas and loses the ITE, and the damage/speed gains are pointless and negligible in practice.

On both forms, she's just okay at evading instead of downright good, but the speed is simply insane. If you see her 3-2ing, I don't think Zelos even has a shot unless he's above 120% PC HP durability-wise, particularly off S1: Shrike ignores evade and his healing can't even undo a single Kas turn. Otherwise, it's a respect check on evade.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 12:39:37 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Clear Tranquil

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Just teasing ^_^

Though auto revival hype for Leena is baad too!  ;-)

*CT approves
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"

superaielman

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Ryu (BoF3) vs Sierra Mikain (S2)- Welp.
Elc (AtLC) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4)- GET OUT OF GODLIKE NAOTO
X (MMXCM) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC)

Heavy

Saturos (GS) vs Ho-Oh (PKMN)- Go away Saturos.
Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kaus Debonair (OB)- Textbook spoiling.
Emelia (SaGa) vs Nina Wyndia (BoF4)


Middle

Ryudo (G2) vs Maya (LoL2)- Don't think two Sky Dragon Slashes do it.
Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC)- Just infinitely better on offense.
Elhaym van Houten (XG) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4)- I think. Really close fight.

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC)
Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT)- Leaning Cid, but evasion could tip it. Mmm.
Leena (CC) vs Flonne (Disgaea)- Frying pan>Love angels.
Augst Henriksen (WA4) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)- Augst.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Sei

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Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs Sierra Mikain (S2) - Immunes both Sierra's ID and draining tricks.
X (MMXCM) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC) - Zaps X dead too quickly before he could even do any significant damage.

Heavy

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kaus Debonair (OB) - Image makes Debonair weep.
Emelia (SaGa) vs Nina Wyndia (BoF4) - Damage reduction makes Emelia miss a 2HKO on Nina. This is a bad thing.

Middle

Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Mmm... thinking.  By how much did Fury status increase damage again?
Rikku (FFX) vs Nightburn Acklund (WA5) - Funny thing. Even with just storeboughts, Rikku completely heals away Nightburn's damage so she could smack him on doubles.

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC) - Not Ramus
Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT) - Mmm... yeah, thinking evasion and counters should tip this towards her.
Augst Henriksen (WA4) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) - Accursed healing

OblivionKnight

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Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs Sierra Mikain (S2) - Ryu can get full ID immunity, right?  He wins, sadly ;_;
Elc (AtLC) vs Naoto Shirogane (P4) - Mmm...Elc is 28 to a 24 (23.6) average with Bravery Wings and Choko+Diekbeck in the averages.  That's faster than Naoto without Soji in the averages (assuming Rune Dresses on the Girls, Sleipnir on Chie, Algernon on Naoto - 65 to a 57 average).  So yeah...Go Elc.
Fereydoon (WA5) vs Dhaos (ToP) - Dhaos has GOD'S BREATH!!!!!  HITS WEAKNESS!!!!!  Combined with his physical resilience and GODLY SPEED AND EVASION, and NOTHING can stop him!
X (MMXCM) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC) - X probably wants lightning resistance Force Metals with X-Heart.  Which works, as he has 4 slots.  Still...mmm...yeah, think that's enough.  FA has crappy defense, so X does pretty awesome damage here.

Heavy

Saturos (GS) vs Ho-Oh (PKMN) - Saturos.  Godly healing for the win on a boss
Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kaus Debonair (OB) - Edge.  
Emelia (SaGa) vs Nina Wyndia (BoF4) - Nina.
Kasumi (Suikos) vs Zelos Wilder (ToS) - Zelos.  Back to Godlike, Zelos!

Middle

Ryudo (G2) vs Maya (LoL2) - Maya.  Status hype gets blocked
Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Luna
Elhaym van Houten (XG) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Yukiko, I think.  Elly's sleep was 100% if it connected?  Or was it just a high chance if it connected?  Can't hype blockers for it, sadly ;_;  If not...3 turns of good enough evasion might do it?  Persona checks evasion for the whole string of multi-hit attacks, so...
Rikku (FFX) vs Nightburn Acklund (WA5) - Damn.  Rikku has to pick up a fight she loses to ;_;

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC) - Opera
Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT) - Cid.  FFT character with 0 defense vs. random Flare castings from at least an average damage attack.  Yay FF4a!
Leena (CC) vs Flonne (Disgaea) - Flonne.  PB boss form for the win!
Augst Henriksen (WA4) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) - Zhuzhen.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Bardiche

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Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs Sierra Mikain (S2) - Sierra is Godlike?
Fereydoon (WA5) vs Dhaos (ToP) - Sigh, Dhaos, you loser.
X (MMXCM) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC) - False Althena respect.

Heavy

Saturos (GS) vs Ho-Oh (PKMN) - This season is :psyduck:
Kasumi (Suikos) vs Zelos Wilder (ToS) - Doesn't Zelos have hea--oh, wait.

Middle

Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Snow means Battle Oath here. Battlefield just raises Magic damage. Battle Oath is about 40% chance to Fury, so it's... t2 or t3? Still, faster than Luna, can heal herself, takes initiative and probably doubles somewhere along the road. Then again, apparently Luna dodges 25%? I should probably math this out...
Elhaym van Houten (XG) vs Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Elhaym should champ. Probably won't. *sigh*
Rikku (FFX) vs Nightburn Acklund (WA5) - Nightburn respect > Rikku.

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC) - Ramus isn't a Puny?
Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT) - Buying Dhyer's arguments here.
Leena (CC) vs Flonne (Disgaea) - Isn't Flonne.
Augst Henriksen (WA4) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) - I actually mathed this out, I just can't see any Augst hype winning this. Shame, since I'd like seeing Augst champ. Oh well. Another season...


Quote
If not...3 turns of good enough evasion might do it?  Persona checks evasion for the whole string of multi-hit attacks, so...

Regardless, Xenogears checks accuracy with each hit iirc. I'd... think it a bit unfair to discard Xenogears mechanics and hold them against Persona mechanics.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 02:36:57 PM by Bardiche »

OblivionKnight

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To be fair, you can go either way with that!  You can call it unfair either way. 
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Ultradude

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Saturos (GS) vs Ho-Oh (PKMN) - Safeguard stops Saturos' best bet here.

Rikku (FFX) vs Nightburn Acklund (WA5) - WA5 bosses don't like being outsped.

Cid Pollendina (FF4) vs Miluda Folles (FFT) - Dhyer works unless those random Flares OK brought up kick in before, since I vote FF4a.
"Turning into bats? Laughable!" says sparkly telepathic Volvo-driving vampire who spent century in high school.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Miakis (S5) vs Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Snow means Battle Oath here. Battlefield just raises Magic damage. Battle Oath is about 40% chance to Fury, so it's... t2 or t3? Still, faster than Luna, can heal herself, takes initiative and probably doubles somewhere along the road. Then again, apparently Luna dodges 25%? I should probably math this out...

Miakis is awesomely accurate. Don't think Luna's modest evasion will be an issue here.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

OblivionKnight

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There isn't any official FF4a topic with some of those equips in, but I think they were 25% based on casual observation and what others said.  Forget the damage...want to say it was 2000-3000 or so?   
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Bardiche

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To be fair, you can go either way with that!  You can call it unfair either way. 

Not really. Persona 4 multi-hit attacks check evasion once, Xenogears multi-hit regular attacks check evasion for each seperate hit in the chain.

Also:
Quote
Psycho Rod  (Lunar Rod- 100% Chance of Sleep on All Physicals, Reapplicable, Applies even if all hits miss, Broken, Damage in Brackets Below)

Them hype's not flying.

OblivionKnight

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...it works if it doesn't connect?  What?

It can be unfair for P4 in the sense that it's an in-game advantage for them (I.e., dodge all hits of Akasha Arts instead of randomly getting hit or criticalled on hit out of 3) that their evasion hits everything at once.  Probably makes more sense to make them have to evade each individual hit...on the other hand, what will you say if the situation was reversed?  I can see going either way for that reason
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

superaielman

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Flare is on Cid's final hammer, and it's still below average damage since 4a aftergame curve.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

OblivionKnight

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It really shouldn't change by that much, overall.  The Flares should boost the damage above average (bleh, need actual numbers for this...maybe I'll go do that).  Everyone gains a boost in weapon power.  Cecil gets random Whites, Cid Flares, Kain's damage is high for jumps but crappy otherwise, Yang's stays the same it usually is, the magic damages already kind of capped out...it should be average at worst.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Bardiche

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It can be unfair for P4 in the sense that it's an in-game advantage for them (I.e., dodge all hits of Akasha Arts instead of randomly getting hit or criticalled on hit out of 3) that their evasion hits everything at once.  Probably makes more sense to make them have to evade each individual hit...on the other hand, what will you say if the situation was reversed?  I can see going either way for that reason

I just see it as an attribute of an attack. Like Soul Nomad's Demon Blast checks Evasion/Critical once for all hits in the chain, or like many games check evasion once for each hit in a chain...

Whereas Xenogears does the same for multi-hit attacks, just not for their basic physicals, iirc. I could be wrong.

So I don't see it as "P4 evasion checks evasion once for each string of attacks", but more "P4 multi-hit attacks check evasion once".

I'd say we have to agree to disagree here. This is different interpretations stuff, and while I can see where you're coming from, I just don't agree with that view.

OblivionKnight

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Oh, I don't disagree.  I'm just saying you could see it any way (and I even did point to it makes more sense to take it the way you mentioned).

Besides, I vote for the cuter person anyway. 
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Bardiche

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oh, so you're voting Elhaym after all. Good OK, you're redeemed a little.

OblivionKnight

  • Boom! Big reveal: I'm a pickle. What do you think about that?
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Fuck no.  Her name is stupid and her face is ugly, AND we don't get to see any good stuff in her naked scene (plus, hell, her clothes are so UNREVEALING). 
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory