Author Topic: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle  (Read 24709 times)

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2009, 01:53:09 AM »
Eh, a lot of that is because she got this arc's plot equipment.  The full set of War Priest's Equipment, which is all about Lvl 8 gear.  The funny thing is, that shield they looted ended up blocking about a dozen attacks over the course of the night despite it being just a +2 bonus to AC and Reflex.  It was a very popular two numbers for my dice to land on.

Magetastic

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 600
  • Cooler than you.
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2009, 02:08:19 AM »
Don't forget the other popular number for your dice. 4.
<%King_Meepdorah> roll 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"?
* +Hatbot --> "King_Meepdorah rolls 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"? and gets 999."12 [1d999=999]
<%King_Meepdorah> ...
<+superaway> ...Uh oh.
<+RandomConsonant> ...
* +superaway shakes head.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2009, 03:53:40 AM »
Well, to be fair, the shiny new armor + shield + weapon is a big part of that.
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2009, 05:11:38 AM »
Yeah, those are definitely bigger boosts than I'm used to seeing for one level. The equipment is just badass.

I guess this is 4th edition? I'm used to only seeing one stat get raised at level 4.

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2009, 05:40:54 AM »
This is 4E, yes.  The Shield is the big bonus there, and it is a big bonus mostly because Desmond did not carry one before, in spite of having a free hand.  Amazing what +2 to Def/Ref can do for a tank.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2009, 05:43:57 AM »
Desmond lost his in a barfight when he tried to use it as a projectile weapon, what can I say.
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2009, 05:46:26 AM »
Surely there needs to be a feat for shield-throwing. How is one to stat out Captain America?

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2009, 08:06:59 PM »
I was thinking about the optimum paladin with the stat distribution given (17/16/15/13/11/9) and I was reflecting on how STR/CON feel like the weakest stats. You need one of them to ensure that your Fort is good enough, but at the same time, having both feels like a waste if one of them isn't your primary stat.

My issue with Con is that I feel like its effect on HP is overnerfed; just 1 point per stat point period is really bad and, considering that very few if any class powers run off Con, and it only deals with one skill, it seems pretty terrible. It seems like they should try to strike a truce between the hax of Con in 3e and the crappiness of Con in 4e. I designed my character fundamentally based off the rules I remembered about 2e, and Con was much better in that as well IIRC. STR is seems pretty gimpy as well; 1 skill and determines your basic attack (for attacks of opp primarily), except there is a feat that allows you to run it off of your base stat. Which means that, if you do that, STR is pretty strictly worse than Con to raise unless your powers are based on it. As a Paladin I find STR borderline useless (unless my ability to use badass armor depends on it) despite being a clearly physical class, and, if I were trying to play optimized, I would not dump 15/16 into them. Ever.

If I were designing my character optimally, I would do the following distribution, with a human character to add to my saves:

11 STR
15 CON
9 INT
13 DEX
16 WIS
17 CHA (+2)

Invest one of my feats in Melee Proficiency or whatever it is. And bam, STR is basically useless to me.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 08:09:26 PM by Ciato »
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12986
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2009, 09:25:13 PM »
Were Paladins always this CHA-heavy?
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2009, 09:28:42 PM »
Well, they used to need STR for melee damage, but CHA was always the god stat. It buffed all their saving throws, boosted attack rolls for Smite Evil, increased healing for Lay On Hands, gave them more Turn Undead shots...
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12986
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2009, 09:32:30 PM »
I just didn't know much about that, since most of my admittedly scarce DnD knowledge is second-hand and I never played a physical class in DnD to boot (let alone Paladins >_>).
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2204
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2009, 10:00:16 PM »
Were Paladins always this CHA-heavy?

Let's see, 2e Pallies needed a minimum of 17 Charisma for whatever reason, 3e had it apply to a bunch of stuff.  Dunno about 4e, but Pallies needing Charisma there doesn't sound shocking.

Magetastic

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 600
  • Cooler than you.
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2009, 02:49:07 AM »
In 4e, Paladins main attack stat is CHA. You hurt people more by being more appealing/intimidating/whatever.
<%King_Meepdorah> roll 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"?
* +Hatbot --> "King_Meepdorah rolls 1d999 for "It was beauty...that killed the mage"? and gets 999."12 [1d999=999]
<%King_Meepdorah> ...
<+superaway> ...Uh oh.
<+RandomConsonant> ...
* +superaway shakes head.

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2009, 02:53:17 AM »
Basically, in 4E everybody gets to use their primary stat for damage. Barring a bad build, nobody has a low damage mod.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Bobbin Cranbud

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
    • The Writing of Joshua Cole
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2009, 02:58:27 AM »
Paladins have gone from...

AD&D: Must have a CHA of 17+ to enter.  But, it does very little for you.  STR primary, WIS/CON tied for secondary.  Pally spells are actually okay... ish... when the power curve isn't quite so steep.  Also, you have to be human, because...?
D&D 3e: CHA primary, CON secondary, STR tertiary.  And you get crappy spells based off of WIS, but seriously, if you wanted spells you'd be a cleric so you could godmode at higher levels.
D&D 4e: CHA or STR primary, CON secondary for CHA-prime, CHA secondary for STR-prime, with CON tertiary, then either INT or DEX.  The reason CON is still important is Healing Surges, not HP.

EDIT: Stopped to eat dinner while I was posting, so I forgot to mention how much I'm enjoying these Actual Play reports. :)
Read my webnovel, Eye Opener, now available on RoyalRoad.

074

  • Suggests the birth of an abomination
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 920
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2009, 03:15:05 PM »
3e Paladins...get +CHA to all saves.  It's like a better version of the Hexblade's Arcane Resistance, really. (But then again, Hexblade+Blackguard = lol saves).  That aside, they're...not much better than fighters, frankly.  Who in turn are not very good without PrCs.

...welcome to 3e melee.



4e Paladins...well, CHA isn't the main attack stat.  It dovetails as Cranbud states, with CHA or STR being the primary stat depending on your build (and only STR/CHA races can manage a Balanced build easily enough).  CON's importance is...a few things for Paladins.
1: Earlygame HP.  The spread is still quite narrow, though nowhere near as bad as 3e.
2: Healing Surges.  They get an assload to start with.  They typically need that assload.  That aside, they do have powers that burn Surges for extra offense, should they go that route.
3: Axe/Hammer specialization feats.  These tend to be the big weapons one goes for, and as a result, CON is important here, doubly as a HP/surge booster, and for direct access (Hammer more than Axe).

Other classes like extra CON for reasons 1 and 2, but also for armor availability--to be precise, armor heavier than Leather requires 13 STR and CON for proficiency, and don't even look at Plate without either autoprof or 15 in both stats--and you typically want the heaviest you can get without getting in the way of class features; the extra AC matters a decent bit.


...no, armor doesn't get in the way of casting classes' abilities for once.  So if you can manage the stat distribution, go ahead and get a suit of full plate for your Infernal Warlock.  You won't regret it.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2009, 04:29:56 PM »
The CHA abilities on Paladin just seem straight-up better though.
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2009, 11:08:07 PM »
From my understanding (I haven't actually done a close comparison) you are correct, pre-Divine Power. Strength based Paladins are pretty bad in core. That branch (and Paladins on the whole, really) get a pretty beautiful mechanical booster from Divine Power, though.

4[W] + Str Mod Daily with the drawback of taking a meager 5 damage? Stack on Ardent Vow? Thank you very much.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 11:14:07 PM by AndrewRogue »

Bobbin Cranbud

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
    • The Writing of Joshua Cole
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2009, 12:04:20 AM »
I play with a (Dragonborn, but he essentially dumped CHA before racial mods) STRaladin in one campaign, and he was definitely suffering as we advanced in levels... before Divine Power.  STRaladin was definitely one of the setups WotC realized needed a boost from core, and it got one of the biggest boosts out there.

Paladins in general got one of the larger boosts from core, actually.  Most of the classes gained versatility from their respective Power books, without necessarily growing stronger at their core schtick.  Paladins became much, much better at being Defenders.

I suspect that both the Paladin and the Warlock suffered from being tanky classes for their role; their above-the-curve resilience was originally expected to be more important than it turned out to be in actual play, so they needed more help to bring them up to par with the more fragile PHB1 classes and PHB2 classes.
Read my webnovel, Eye Opener, now available on RoyalRoad.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8154
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2009, 01:44:26 AM »
Maybe it depends on the battles your DM throws at you, but our Paladin's tankiness (no Divine Power here) has been really, really valuable.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2009, 05:50:43 AM »
Well, you guys are also still at a level where a vast majority of things target AC, and have few options otherwise.  Those halberdiers Desmond was casually mocking had both more damage and accuracy than the magic missiles the mages were lobbing.  But because they didn't target AC, the mages had you guys panicking.

Higher levels also means more means to attack defenses besides AC, which means Desmond's absurd tankiness also starts to decline a bit.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #71 on: October 21, 2009, 05:52:58 AM »
This is why I am making efforts to raising non-AC saves. And raising my HP. I wanna tank tank tank.
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #72 on: October 21, 2009, 06:47:06 AM »
The main issue with Paladin was that Divine Challenge was pretty mediocre, especially for Strength Paladins. It can be mitigated by DM and party obviously, but, overall, the mark kinda sucked. The addition of the Divine Sanction (as well as a couple options to make Paladins simultaneously offensive/defensive/healer threats) really evened the class out, overall.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #73 on: October 21, 2009, 03:26:45 PM »
I might have to look at the Divine Power book a little bit then. I do want something that makes my mark better. =)
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
Re: Desmond & Dragons - A DnD Chronicle
« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2009, 08:20:25 PM »
Divine Sanction is, essentially, a secondary mark attached to a bunch of Paladin powers. It functions pretty much identically to Divine Challenge but without the same limitations, which allows you to set up multiple marks and be more effective in a general melee since now several people are getting pings in the FACE whenever they opt to not mess with you.

Mighty Challenge also rocks all sorts of socks for Strength Paladins.