DLC 5 Main Topic

[Luther Lansfeld]

I was gauging off of "places I am interested in travelling" not practical things. I plan to travel to both Australia and Britain in the next, say, five years, but I will likely... I won't say never, but I have far less interest in Japan and would not fork out the same money to go there for a DLC as I would the other places.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I'm not going to question your taste in foreign locations... well, okay, that's exactly what I'm doing, I guess. It's just... I mean, you've never been here and you're ostensibly an RPG fan, you're not curious?

Anyway, my incredulousness aside, this came up in chat.

Yukari-sama>   Most international destinations will be at or over $1000 for most folks in the US, more so if you don't live near a major international airport to begin with.
   <Yukari-sama>   And spending that much money on a weekend is a bit of a waste.
   <Djinn>   Yep, but you can get $500-$600 tickets online.
   <Yukari-sama>   I call BS on that.
   <Laggy>   ...to Japan? Bullshit.
   <Laggy>   Roundtrip is not that low.
   <Yukari-sama>   Show me these $500 tickets and we'll talk.
   <ErikoKirishima>   If we were going to do DLCon in Japan, I'd say we'd need to do it for at least two weeks to get the money's worth out of it.
   <ErikoKirishima>   And I don't know how many people can take off two weeks.
   <Laggy>   If it costs less for me to go to Japan than it does to go to Halifax, that's just utterly inane.
   <Yukari-sama>   I've heard that super-bargain tickets can be gotten to Japan for under $1000, but not significantly less than that.
   <Laggy>   Just saying that international travel is 500-600 is ridiculous.
   <Laggy>   Overseas even.
   <Laggy>   That's the price just to fly across to the continent.
   <Djinn>   The last time I looked, I found a roundtrip package for two people to Japan for $1100 when booking 5 months in advance.
   <Laggy>   Find it
   <Laggy>   Show us it
   <Yukari-sama>   Yeah, definite case of "pics or it didn't happen".
   <Laggy>   Cause -I- would be interested in going to Japan at that price.
   <Djinn>   Okay, I'll do a search, but I kind of needing a starting point, not just a destination.
   <Laggy>   SF
   <Laggy>   I'm on the west coast, that is as close to Japan as you can get in the states.
   <Laggy>   It should be *cheapest* here.
   <Yakumo>   Even if you do find that, a full DLCon in Japan is not feasible.
   <superaway>   What Yakko said.
   <Laggy>   Housing is the issue past tickets.
   <Yukari-sama>   Yes.
   <Yukari-sama>   Anyone who would travel overseas to stay for three days is, bluntly, an idiot.
   <Gateguard>   maybe a Japan mini-meet sometime, but not a full DLC
   <superaway>   The logicstics of DLC is hard enough with three-four drivers.
   <Yukari-sama>   And housing for a week or more is NOT cheap.
   <Yakumo>   Getting tickets five months in advance is asking a lot from people who often can't commit that far ahead due to jobs or whatever.
   <Yukari-sama>   Super: in fairness, you can MUCH more easily get away without having drivers in a lot of countries that aren't the US.
   <Yakumo>   Plus housing costs, I doubt you can fit all of a Con in your house for nights.
   <superaway>   Oh right.
   <Yukari-sama>   Europe and Japan both have excellent pubtrans.
   <superaway>   Japan's cheap for me because DC is a direct flight there.
   <Djinn>   http://www.vayama.com/flights-san_francisco-japan
   <Yakumo>   Then there's what Hal said, a three day trip is too little but getting this many people to coordinate vacation time? Hell no.
   * Laggy   looks.
   <Laggy>   ...okay, that is retardedly low. What the hell.
   <Yukari-sama>   Yeah, something seriously fishy about that.
   <Laggy>   Is this a site you buy tickets from frequently?
   <Djinn>   I don't buy tickets frequently period.
   <Gateguard>   first off, I note those dates are not for the usual DLC times
   <Djinn>   It's just the first thing I found.
   <Gateguard>   so that might change things alot
   <Laggy>   How do I.. actually view the flight info.
   <Laggy>   I see a price and text
   <Laggy>   But no link
   <superaway>   Yeah, summer prices are generally higher.
   <Yukari-sama>   No mentions of flight numbers either.
   <Laggy>   That's what I meant about flight info.
   * Yukari-sama   nods.
   <Djinn>   input the information into the find-a-flight box.
   <Yukari-sama>   it's claiming Houston to Japan is $770.
   <Yukari-sama>   ...on United.
   * Yakumo   runs a search on Air Canada's website, gets around 6-700 for the same timeframe.
   * Yakumo   facepalms at the fact one of these searched flights has a layover in Chicago. <_<
   <Yukari-sama>   Just pulling third week in July from next summer, I get one lowball for $624 from Air Canada and everything else is over $1k.
   <Djinn>   Hey, I didn't say the flight was convenient, just that I'd seen them for cheap

Summary - Tickets to Japan can be found relatively cheaply (~$500-$600). But there are plenty of other obstacles to a full DLCon Japan. I could host a week-long DL meeting for a small number of people (probably no more than 10 if we all stay in my apartment like illegal immigrants), so we could at least get around the housing problems. Transportation is nicely covered by Japan's public transportation system. It's still costly, but honestly, I would have never expected the DL to provide me with an excuse to travel. So it's worth thinking about, even if ultimately people can't afford it/don't have time.

[Ultradude]

...you know, my dad would probably try to physically bar me from traveling internationally with people I haven't met in person at least once, so it'd probably have to either wait until I've moved out or until I've gone to a DLcon anyways >_>

[Taishyr]

Djinn: Interest in RPGs != interest in Japan. I like my shoes, but I don't have an interest in going to the sweatshop they were made in (unless I have the capability onhand to improve the lives of people working there).

This being said, if I actually had money I'd consider it.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Djinn: Interest in RPGs != interest in Japan. I like my shoes, but I don't have an interest in going to the sweatshop they were made in (unless I have the capability onhand to improve the lives of people working there).

This being said, if I actually had money I'd consider it.

Right right, I know that. Even as I was asking that, I knew that it was an obvious answer... just... I didn't quite know how to ask for clarification on 'why aren't you interested?'

[metroid composite]

Djinn: Interest in RPGs != interest in Japan. I like my shoes, but I don't have an interest in going to the sweatshop they were made in (unless I have the capability onhand to improve the lives of people working there).

There's a difference between RPGs and shoes.  RPGs are cultural, and have cultural imprints all over them.  To use a book analogy...I am mildly curious to visit King's Cross station in London just because of Harry Potter.  I am mildly interested in trying "treacle tart" and other food I've read about in those books.  Similarly, in Japan I imagine I'd be able to wander into a store, and buy figurines for RPGs and Touhou games that I'd never find outside of Japan.

For me, these aren't huge factors in where I'd like to travel, but they do exist.

Yukari-sama>   Most international destinations will be at or over $1000 for most folks in the US, more so if you don't live near a major international airport to begin with.

Well, not counting Canada, you mean.  The problems that even Canada would face still nicely illustrate the problems with any international DLC.  Most Canadians have passports because there's not very many places you can go without a passport.  Many Americans do not have passports due to not needing them, which would be an extra hurdle to attendance.  Most Canadian cities are not massive flight hubs, certainly not on the same level that San Francisco or Newark are, generally meaning that tickets will be a bit more expensive even for similar distances.

[Dhyerwolf]

Definitely in.

And RPGs (and video games) are completely Japan's saving grace to me. If I wanted to feel like I was in an RPG, I'd go to Europe and visit a lot of old forts and out of the way places honestly (Or various Ghost towns across America for Wild Arms).

[Bardiche]

I'd want to visit Japan, but moreso to see the shrines than go otaku-wild or videogame wild. Of course, I want to go to shrines because I'd like to see how they are and do that entire "buy a charm for good luck" thing they do in anime, so it's probably otaku-wild anyway.

'fraid I can't attend to DLcons in America, but then you guys probably know of my latest rage project and the money woes. :-) I'd love to see an account of this when you get 'ir done!

When's the last possible date you can 'sign up', tentatively? In case one of my uncles turns out to secretely be a tsundere sugar uncle who actually really wants to part with his money but hides it behind, "No way, maybe if you were fifteen still."?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I'm not going to question your taste in foreign locations... well, okay, that's exactly what I'm doing, I guess. It's just... I mean, you've never been here and you're ostensibly an RPG fan, you're not curious?

Just to keep the mildly poisonous tongue-in-cheek dead horse running, the things RPGs "taught" me are one of the reasons Japan ranks only slightly above China, India and Tibunktu for places I'm interested in visiting. And I'd only visit those places if I were interested in blowing up my brains mid-flight. >_>

In all seriousness, though, an international DLC at all would be a really onerous, difficult affair for all the involved, and most of us can ill afford to make that level of financial and management commitment. Excal put it best: even a Vancouver DLC would be highly problematic, and that has a slew of central DLers that could properly organize the whole thing. A Japan DLC would have you as the only in-person organizer, who would also have to cope with the vast majority of the housing expenses, and helping a host of 20+ people through a place that is, distance and culturally-wise, an ocean away from what all of us are used to. I appreciate your excitement, but you seem to be hugely underestimating the level of the challenge you'd be putting onto your back for even that theoretic proposal. Maybe when we're better established in our lives, it might be more feasible - and heck, that quite possibly applies even to you, as you're still going through the JET motions.

[superaielman]

Yeah, no real interest in going to Japan myself. If I want xenophobia and racism I'll go ask to marry a black woman in Louisiana.

[OblivionKnight]

...dude, harsh.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Huh... such negative comments about Japan. That's a really good reason in general I'd want you guys to come visit it. Japan has flaws to be sure, but it's a really great place overall. I do a poor job hyping it because I tend to forget all the good things and focus on the 'strange terrifyingly different' way they do some things here.

But if nothing else, Japan is an amazing tourist spot. Man, there are so many places I'd want to show you guys.

As for organization difficulties, yeah, I understand that international travel is a pain. Trust me, I do. But the idea for this Japan meeting isn't supposed to be a full-blown DLC, I know there aren't that many DLers who can just pick up and travel to Japan. But if just a few of us could be coordinated (or are at least really interested), I could put it together.

[Ultradude]

Honestly, given some time to put away some money, get things in order, and convince the family that it's not a bad idea, I'd be all for taking a trip to Japan. It's one of my top countries I'd like to visit someday, but it'll almost definitely not be within the next year.

Still, I'll look into some long-term planning for what I'd need and put down some notes now.

[Dark Holy Elf]

People should totally go and see Japan sometime in their lives (and not for the fact it has video game stuff. You can get that at the right places in North America).

That said, DLCon is not the time for do it. Guys, we just went to New York City. How many of you even visited the Statue of Liberty or Central Park? Similarly, in San Francisco, we did... what there? Oh yeah, never even visited the city proper. DLCon turns people into non-tourists, for whatever reason - we're so overjoyed at meeting a bunch of internet nerds we've known for years that we forget about doing touristy things. That's fine.

But it damn well means we shouldn't make the journey much more costly and fraught with logistic problems (and believe me, Japan would have plenty).

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

DLCon turns people into non-tourists, for whatever reason - we're so overjoyed at meeting a bunch of internet nerds we've known for years that we forget about doing touristy things.

And that is basically the reason I want to go, because goddamn if I'd waste an opportunity to actually be able to geekteract. Nobody I currently know outside the internets is even a nerd!

[VySaika]

Well, you're planning on staying a couple weeks anyway, right?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Well, you're planning on staying a couple weeks anyway, right?

Definitely, yeah. Even if it's mainly for the con, it'd be a waste of four-digits cash to stay for three days and flee, but even staying the extra days would be for the compound nerdery. You alone would respond for like 400% more geekteraction than what I have IRL.

[Xeroma]

DLCon is just not the time to do a big trip to japan. Everyone would have to get passports and those are hard to get now :/ Not to mention things like money, hosting, and other related things. Pacifica seems like the best bet right now.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

You mean getting passports wasn't always akin to having your teeth surgically removed with a golf club?

[Idun]

CA? :| Can't make it. Enjoy peeps. At least I'm not sure I can make it as I'll have just graduated and am more interested in having some kinda firm footing to stand on. >.>

[DjinnAndTonic]

Well, I'll stop cluttering up the DLC5 topic with this then.

If anyone is interested in actually trying to set up some sort of group tourism outing to Japan together, though, THAT can still be done. PM me if this sounds in any way appealing. If there's no interest, then I don't want to do the research to work out the logistics.

[ThePiggyman]

Y'know, I would, but being 16, not having a license, much less a car, nor a job, and having only actually obtained an official passport about a month ago...
Maybe in two years or so, I'll consider dropping by. ^^;

[Talaysen]

Pfft, not like I have a licence either.

Anyway, count me for maybe.

[Grefter]

Few things. 

If I wanted to feel like I was in an RPG, I'd go to Europe and visit a lot of old forts and out of the way places honestly

Bruges.  It's like a fairy tale city.

DL Con is not a time for tourism.  DL Con is a time for awesome things.  Times around DL Con are the time to be a tourist.

And actually I probably should check tickets to Japan sometime, they can go for criminally cheap from here (Know someone that like got some for a couple of hundred during last year's ridiculous lows.  Could just fuck about for a weekend or something maybe.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Cool. The Grefter is always welcome in my home if you need a place to stay. But only if you bring enough snark for 2 DL members. There's a criminally low shortage of snark in Japan.