Season 55, Week 4 - When Ninja girls turn lesbian out of despair.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC)
Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) vs Brahms (VPs)

Heavy

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kasumi (Suikos)
Lyon (S5) vs Rayquaza (PKMN)

Middle

Miakis (S5) vs Elhaym van Houten (XG)
Dekar (Lufia 2) vs Massimo (MMXCM)

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Colette Brunel (ToS)

[Ultradude]

...well, if Edge, Rayquaza, Zhuzhen, and Colette all win, I can vote on two finals matches at least.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC): Ryu has no lightning resistance? Well then. FA is faster and that's that. FA for Godlike champ? Maybe.
Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) vs Brahms (VPs): For a third week in a row, easy win for Brahms if I still voted on VP1! In fact, the easiest yet!

Heavy

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kasumi (Suikos): Like with Ho-oh, Edge barely can't kill with a single sleep blitz. Kasumi goes first, Shrikes him. She... is barely put to sleep, evade shouldn't be over 25% and Edge can sleep that turn 1. So she'll get 2 attacks total. Two Shrikes is... just baaarely not enough to kill Edge. It's frightening. Each does 580, two of those, multiplied by Edge's pdur, comes out at over 1280, just under the kill point. She's so close on two accounts that I could see voting for her anyway, here, but... nah.
Lyon (S5) vs Rayquaza (PKMN): Pretty surprising result, but clear enough. Ray is faster, 2HKOs, and has enough MDef to avoid a one-turn Setting Sun. Another match which has a few close calls.

Middle

Miakis (S5) vs Elhaym van Houten (XG): Merely resisting sleep does nothing!
Dekar (Lufia 2) vs Massimo (MMXCM): If Berserk Charge's damage after some light chipping doesn't do it, the status will. Dekar isn't blitzing Massimo's impressive HP multipled by 1.5, given the speed disadvantage.

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1): Block paralysis, then Healing Star until Zhuzhen loses. Doesn't help that she can probably put on some pressure with attacking to buy herself even more time.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC) - Don't really think Protectors are enough to buy Ryu a win against basically perfect fatal status here.
Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) vs Brahms (VPs) - Honestly, I think NEB's argument for not voting on VP1 Brahms is convincing. But I started the season voting for that form, so I'll finish it that way. Next time, Brahms for Heavy hype, but not now.

Heavy

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kasumi (Suikos) - Fail.
Lyon (S5) vs Rayquaza (PKMN) - Yeah, calcing this yesterday made Ray's victory clear enough to me. If you respect Setting Sun enough, Lyon wins, but I sorta don't.

Middle

Miakis (S5) vs Elhaym van Houten (XG) - Broked Lunar Rod.
Dekar (Lufia 2) vs Massimo (MMXCM) - Yeah, don't think this is even worth thinking about. Berserk+Blind alone make Dekar utterly fail, and given how Massimo's faster to begin with and two physicals+100 WE BC off Glint Armor = over 1.4x PC HP and Dekar quite likely didn't even get the IP to get his healing, feels pretty clear-cut.

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) - Lower-end SH stallers are really good at getting owned by shoddy healing.

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC)
Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) vs Brahms (VPs)

Heavy

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kasumi (Suikos)
Lyon (S5) vs Rayquaza (PKMN)- Actually, did Poke ID check speed, or was that ditched by the time Rayquaza came around?

Middle

Miakis (S5) vs Elhaym van Houten (XG)
Dekar (Lufia 2) vs Massimo (MMXCM)

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Colette Brunel (ToS)- Cinnamon doesn't 3HKO to me, but still manages with a shot of full healing.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Lyon (S5) vs Rayquaza (PKMN)- Actually, did Poke ID check speed, or was that ditched by the time Rayquaza came around

The ID I remember (Guillotine) mostly checks level. I don't remember other ID skills -mechanically-, which may function differently, though. And I have no idea why should that be relevant, given Lyon's own ID checks Magic/MDef, not Speed.

[Dhyerwolf]

Because I take status checks at defender's versions, not attacker's.

[Bardiche]

Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC) - FA champ? ;_;
Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) vs Brahms (VPs) - VP2 Brahms.

Heavy

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kasumi (Suikos) - Ninja fail-off. Gotta check. >_>
Lyon (S5) vs Rayquaza (PKMN) - Kneejerk goes to Lyon's ID. But, huh, I should probably check the stat topics later. Mrf.

Middle

Miakis (S5) vs Elhaym van Houten (XG) - I'm going to lust after Elhaym victories like Djinn lusts after Dhyer.
Dekar (Lufia 2) vs Massimo (MMXCM) - Stupid Hyper Mode blasting right past an IP.

Light

Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Colette Brunel (ToS) - I think? Colette isn't that strong iirc, and Cinnamon's got solid healing.

[Monkeyfinger]

Not much to say other than that in all pokemon generations after the first, ID is a level vs. level check.

[superaielman]

Godlike

Ryu (BoF3) vs False Althena (Lunar:EBC)
Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) vs Brahms (VPs)

Heavy

Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) vs Kasumi (Suikos)
Lyon (S5) vs Rayquaza (PKMN)

Middle

Miakis (S5) vs Elhaym van Houten (XG)
Dekar (Lufia 2) vs Massimo (MMXCM)- Just to check, Massimo's status is 100% or turn one? I'm pretty damn sure it is but it's worth checking.

Light

Opera Vectra (SO2) vs Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)- Opera also walls Zhuzhen's best elements. IIRC his best damage ends up being his physical here.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

At 100% WE, Berserk Charge should be turn one at worst alright. Tended to see those things hit really often when I used Massimo, although, admittedly, wasn't very often against randoms. >_>

[Dark Holy Elf]

Because I take status checks at defender's versions, not attacker's.

The problem with doing that is that some games use multiple ways to check status (PS4 being an iconic example). This strongly suggests that the attacker's definition is what is at play, since it's a property of the move, not a defender.

I could see considering BOTH, though... that actually may be the best way to do things.

[Pyro]

Attacker's stat check in the event that it has a specific check, defender's definition in the event it doesn't?

[Dark Holy Elf]

That is in fact what I do, typically.

[Dhyerwolf]

PS 4 is a such a rare example. On the other hand, take a game where they use a rare stat to check status resistance (Let's say P4 and Luck?). Certainly not going to say that people there who are status resistant don't need with the variety of DL status well. Flip side, any status weakness Kanji has in game should be maintain DL wise. Part of this is that I have slight trouble believing that S5 has status checks. I feel like that's been said about almost all Suikodens, but S1, S3, S4, and ST are already off that list.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Oh, if the game checks a stat like Luck or a "status resistance" like WA games, I am fine with overwriting that with the defender's stat, too. Granted, I am firmly of the opinion that, when in doubt, the stats of each dueller should have more of a say on the match, rather than less, so status should basically always have some sort of check.

[Dhyerwolf]

And then what if neither games have any check? And hopefully if a game does things right, it makes the attacker's stats effect the status! Granted, Suikoden didn't really like to do that either (at least, not to notable degrees).

[superaielman]

Oh, if the game checks a stat like Luck or a "status resistance" like WA games, I am fine with overwriting that with the defender's stat, too. Granted, I am firmly of the opinion that, when in doubt, the stats of each dueller should have more of a say on the match, rather than less, so status should basically always have some sort of check.

I know where you're coming from on this. LoD mdef and Lufia 2 Mdef have the same effect on status in game, but one is infinitely superior to the other for it's actual purposes. I can see kneejerking or seeing Meru and Shana as heavily status resistant thanks to that logic, but anything that would make Artea's mighty 8% reduction vs Guy's incredible 8% weakness to magic suddenly mattering for status blocking in the DL is blah.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Then, why not have the reduction work proportionally to the in-game effectiveness of the stat? I end up doing that as a kneejerk myself - i.e. I mock WA2 mdef even for magical status resistance, because the stat is just worthless (so fuck Tim for magical status spoiler hype in the eye under that logic). Saying Artea gets to reduce status odds by an amount similar to 8% wouldn't be unreasonable under that, so to speak in a cursory manner.

[alanna82]

Is there a reason people arnt voting on VP1 Brahms anymore? Because thats the only form I can vote on.

VP 1 Brahms wins

Edge beats Kasumi (I dont allow Edge stat claws, so he is robbing people, but Kasumi is bad)
Rayquazza beats Lyon, ID checks for level in Pokemon, Ray starts at a high level. Same reason I voted for Ray vs Cristo

Elly beats Miakis, Elly in middle finals is just wrong....

No light votes

[superaielman]

Then, why not have the reduction work proportionally to the in-game effectiveness of the stat? I end up doing that as a kneejerk myself - i.e. I mock WA2 mdef even for magical status resistance, because the stat is just worthless (so fuck Tim for magical status spoiler hype in the eye under that logic). Saying Artea gets to reduce status odds by an amount similar to 8% wouldn't be unreasonable under that, so to speak in a cursory manner.

Because Mdef is worthless in Lufia 2 by endgame and making it matter for status defense in the DL in any way when it doesn't in game is something I don't buy. Shana resisting say a 70% status makes perfect sense to me, whereas Artea doing so wouldn't.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Resisting a status by 8% is also pretty worthless, so I don't see much wrong with it (also sorta helps that, in cases such as this, I would make the effect a multiplier rather than subtractive, since subtractive inflates low-end resistance against borderline status). But I apply arbitrary discretion there and tiebreak against the stat -anyway- if it's bad at what it's supposed to do.

[Dhyerwolf]

LoD Mdef and Lufia 2 Mdef have the same effect on status in game: None! Although I can certainly see why one might want to try to extend some extra benefit of LoD Mdef given the massive, massive DL raping it takes. Which is why say that I'm not inclined to take Kongol as generally weak to status because of his horrid Mdef (Although again, LoD DL wise is so off balance, I could understand the want to. But it feels incredibly special in that regards).

[Talaysen]

Attacker's stat check in the event that it has a specific check, defender's definition in the event it doesn't?

This is generally what I do as well.

Alanna: Because VP1 Brahms is an optional boss you don't have to beat nor are you even SUPPOSED to beat him.  It's essentially an optional plot fight.

[OblivionKnight]

And I, on the other hand, being so literal, assume that status from the attacking side hits what it hits in-game.  I don't make magical resilience double as status defense and have never really been a fan of this in general, unless that's how it works in-game.  See Persona 4, I guess - I can't see taking those attacks hitting magical defenses for status accuracy, since they don't touch END in-game.  If they don't have the respective stat (such as luck)?  Then so be it - they're average.