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Author Topic: List topic: Season 55  (Read 3136 times)

superaielman

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List topic: Season 55
« on: October 31, 2009, 02:41:04 PM »
This season's had some rather fluky runs. Brahms to the Godlike finals, Edge/Kasumi tearing up Heavy, Elly having success while Maya and Nightburn get spoiled.. it makes for some intersting speculation. List topic's cool in that it lets you see how people on average respect fighters. I'm certainly curious about the results.

For those that don't know, the list topic is where you are given 16 fighters to list in order from strongest to weakest. Say:

Ryu 3
Malak
Nina 1
Jogurt

Would be listed as (by 99.99999% of the universe)

1. Ryu3
2. Nina 1
3. Malak
4. Jogurt

It's a pretty neat format.  You need seven fighters for your list to count towards the weighted average, but feel free to do divisions where you have six or less. It'll be cool to see how our champs match up with the people in downgrade pools this season.


Godlike:

Ryu (BoF3)
Sierra Mikain (S2)
Naoto Shirogane (Pers4)
Elc (AtLC)
Dhaos (ToP)
Fereydoon (WA5)
X (MMXCM)
Nate Nanjo (Pers)
False Althena (Lunar:EBC)
Lugia (PKMN)
Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT)
Dhoulmagus (DQ8)
Brahms (VPs)
Yunalesca (FFX)
Empyrea (DQ8)
Kurando Inugami (SH2)

Heavy:

Saturos (GS)
Ho-Oh (PKMN)
Edge Gereldine (FF4)
Kaus Debonair (OB)
Kasumi (Suikos)
Zelos Wilder (ToS)
Barubary (BoF2)
Lyon (S5)
Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)
Joshua (FE8)
Tony Eisler (MK)
Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
Emelia (Saga)
Nina (BoF4)
Kiryl/Cristo (DQ4)
Rayquaza (PKMN)

Middle

Ryudo (G2)
Maya (LoL2)
Miakis (S5)
Luna (Lunar:SSSC)
Elly van Houten (XG)
Yukiko Amagi (P4)
Rikku (FFX)
Nightburn Auckland (WA5)
Nanaki/Red XIII (FF7)
Sharmista (S5)
Dekar (Lufia 2)
Landis (S3)
Massimo (MMXCM)
Tear Grants (TotA)
Elaine (S3)
Nergal (FE7)

Light:

Opera Vectra (SO2)
Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC)
Cid (FF4)
Miluda Folles (FFT)
Leena (CC)
Flonne (Disgaea)
Augst Henriksen (WA4)
Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
Cinnamon (MMXCM)
Steena (CC)
Soren (FE9)
Irvine Kinneas (FF8)
Rebecca Streisand (WA5)
Relm Arrowny (FF6)
Colette Brunell (ToS)
Dominia (XG)

« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 09:56:31 PM by superaielman »
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Yoshiken

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 02:46:07 PM »
Only one where I can get 7+ characters is Heavy. I really need to play more games. :v

1. Zelos Wilder (ToS)
2. Rayquaza (PKMN)
3. Ho-Oh (PKMN)
4. Edge Gereldine (FF4)
5. Joshua (FE8)
6. Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
7. Saturos (GS)
8. Nina (BoF4)

This pool really shows why the list idea is interesting. I'd say Zelos has a lot of trouble against Rayquaza and Ho-oh, but a lot of his strength comes from hitting weakness against 99% of the DL. Edge statuses out the Pokemon, but would otherwise lose horribly to those, methinks. Nina, I feel is over-rated, and so manages the grand achievement of being lower than Saturos. gj.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 10:14:14 PM by Yoshiken »

superaielman

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 03:07:55 PM »
It's more a measurement of how they do in the DL period than how they fight against each other. Edge may spoil Ho-Oh but he's probably not better than him as an overall fighter.
Godlike:

1. Ryu 3 (Proven winner)
2.  False Althena (I think? Godlike is surprisingly light on elemental resistances and fighters.)
3. Orlandu
*Drop*
4.  Nate Nanjo (Nasty spoiler)
5. Elc (Solid Godlike)
6. Empyrea (Just not enough raw HP)
*Drop*
7.  Yunalesca (Status)
8. Brahms (Good spoiler)
*drop*
9. Kurando Inugami (Borderliner)
10. Dhoulmagus (Borderliner)
11. X (Just not impressed with him)
12. Sierra
13.  Lugia (Blah. He's going to do worse than Naoto in a pool. That, that fails.)
14. Naoto

Heavy:

1. Lyon (Just a really high Heavy)
2. Ho-Oh
3. Rayquaza
*Drop*
4. Debonair (Too fast/strong, had the bad luck to draw freaking Edge in round 1)
5. Edge
6. Cristo
7. Tony
*drop*
8. Toadstool (Solid healer)
9. Nina 4 (Hurt by that Pdef mattering)
10. Yosuke
11. Joshua
12. Emelia (Fast 2HKO and nothing else.)
13. Saturos (Scrub boss)
14. Barubary
15. Kasumi (Probably a Heavy after all, but she got very lucky this season.)
 

Middle

1. Red (Fast 2HKO+limit usually works in Middle.
2.  Maya (Weird. She's very good but the existance of FE fighters and counters in general gives her serious trouble.)
3. Yukiko (Evasion!)
4. Dekar (Tank! But so slow.)
5. Massimo (Solid Middle.)
6.  Nergal (Speed hurts him too much, but he's solid)
*drop*
7. Elly (One trick wonder, but it works)
8.Elaine (Stays in Middle based on healing.)
9. Miakis (Healing rarely matters and the damage is meh. Just doesn't translate.)
10. Landis (Strictly a spoiler)
11. Ryudo (Get more damage)
12. Tear (Too damn slow)
13. Sharmista (Get more speed)
14. Rikku (Get out)
15. Luna (Not a Middle. Damage just isn't good enough.)

This is not a strong Middle group at all.


Light:

1. Opera (Better than I thought, she spoils a fair bit of status and most elements. Bad damage holds her back.)
2. Zhuzhen (Very solid fighter. Feels like a classic M/L.)
3. Cinnamon
*DROP*
4.  Steena- Has a damage tech that's good! That's something.)
5. Dominia (I have no HP respect for her at ALL. It's a comment on the rest of this field that she's this high.)
6. Cid (Spoiler)
7. Miluda (3HKO of some type and weak counters, but below average speed/durability. Eh.)
*Drop*
8.  Relm (Elemental spoiler)
9.  Irvine (Bad even by FF8 standards.)
10.  Leena (Half average damage, weak to fire, has literally nothing else going for her.)
11. Flonne (Somehow worse than Leena)
12. Ramus (Ramus)
13. Augst (Apparently can't kill. So yeah, ninja edit time.)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 08:33:30 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Ultradude

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 03:19:14 PM »
EDIT: DERP numbers.
EDIT 2: Moved some Lights around, didn't change my analysis writeup and probably won't bother.

Godlike:

1 Fereydoon (WA5)
2 Yunalesca (FFX)
3 Lugia (PKMN)
4 Naoto Shirogane (Pers4)

Fereydoon at the top of this is pretty obvious to me, with as often as he can get off Laser Silhouette. Not respecting 'lesca's Absorb against bosses is what keeps her behind him, but that and her status, speed, and durability trump Lugia pretty clearly. Naoto is not Godlike.

Heavy:

1 Rayquaza (PKMN)
2 Zelos Wilder (ToS)
3 Ho-Oh (PKMN)
4 Edge Gereldine (FF4)
5 Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)
6 Joshua (FE8)
7 Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
8 Saturos (GS)

I'd say Zelos probably runs into too many enemies that aren't human or beast in Heavy to outdo Rayquaza. Rayquaza's ability to splatter people in different ways has been impressive... ice and perfect status are its only real fears in heavy. Ho-Oh is fire reliant, which hurts - burn odds on Sacred Fire are nasty though, and the raw stats along with Safeguard and Recover make it a bitch to kill. Edge is slightly better at being a sleep user than Toadstool simply because of the speed, though it's close. Joshua has all the good points of a FE Swordmaster with a bit more damage and durability - and I give him Audhumla, so he has a lot of spoiling potential, but still suffers from being a one-trick pony like most of FE. Yosuke is solid all around with lots of options, but nothing stands out enough to consider him a really nasty heavy. Saturos... I probably respect more than most, and he still bottoms the list. His only good status is just a mild fighter killer, and his damage has issues - especially being fire reliant. He's fairly fast and durable, but lots of PCs outslug him anyways.

Middle

1 Rikku (FFX)
2 Nightburn Auckland (WA5)
3 Yukiko Amagi (P4)
4 Nergal (FE7)
5 Nanaki/Red XIII (FF7)
6 Landis (S3)
7 Tear Grants (TotA)
8 Elaine (S3)

Common steals and storebought items for Rikku. Try not to get statused twice before getting your first turn anyone in Middle! Nightburn may not seem like much with that damage and durability, but the speed means that the damage racks up FAST, and gravity is always nice to have. Yukiko showed how awesome she can be - Miori Shirt, awesome fire magic, healing, and status weapons make a mean combo, especially with that extra life, but she's too slow and frail to go above Nightburn. Nergal... I respect FE boss defenses (and HP, though only slightly in that cast) more than most, and Nergal nearly one-shots. Counters mean that he's effectively trading blows with people who double (everyone) anyways. Nanaki has solid damage, some backup magic, and useful limit breaks. Simple but effective. Landis tanks magic nicely and doesn't mind sleep that gets negated by damage. Then he just starts freezing you. Lack of speed and damage leave him screwed against high-damage physical attackers and status immunity. Tear has decent damage and magical durability, but her best healing is a noticeable resource drain, and she's pretty slow. Elaine... has a water rune and is crappy in pretty much every other way.

Light:

1 Colette Brunell (ToS)
2 Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
3 Rebecca Streisand (WA5)
4 Relm Arrowny (FF6)
5 Cid (FF4)
6 Irvine Kinneas (FF8)
7 Flonne (Disgaea)
8 Miluda Folles (FFT)

Zhuzhen has healing, decent damage, and status. Slow and frail don't matter quite as much here. Being from Shadow Hearts with all its SP issues does, but that's only to keep him from being way ahead of the pack. Colette 2HKOs the frail, can resist a few elements, and Holy Song is a decent buff (if only it lasted longer), though she is a tad slow and definitely not durable. Cid on the other hand is SLOW but his damage could fail a lot more, and he's one of the better light tanks. Rebecca has above average speed, and fires multiple shots every few turns. The low odds and that being everything she's got make it iffy though. Relm can handle elements and magic nicely, and her damage doesn't miserably fail. Frail and slow like crazy. Irvine... uh... he has some status effects in his Limit Break selections. That's literally all that keeps him from the bottom. Miluda is OHKO bait in even middle and has, like, no damage, but an inkling of evade and speed go well with equipment breaking. Flonne is Flonne.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 08:07:54 PM by Ultradude »
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superaielman

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 03:21:28 PM »
Oh. Please number your lists, it makes it easier to count. Thanks.

Edit:

Quote
Miluda is OHKO bait in even middle and has, like, no damage, but an inkling of evade and speed go well with equipment breaking.

Miluda doesn't usually have equip breaks learned when you fight her; battle skill is useless for her in the DL for that reason.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 03:43:43 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 03:47:31 PM »
super, there are two Toadstools in different positions in your Heavy list. >_>

Godlike:

1. Ryu (BoF3) - Yeah, proven winner works.
2. False Althena (Lunar:EBC) - Shockingly covers her bases well even in EBO. While she's not the overkilling monstrosity from EBC, crazy accurate I win status+crazy accurate crippling status+ridiculous MP-busting+good damage of both varieties that mocks evade, elements+speed+okay durability. Just has everything she needs, although the PC-killing synergy needs work (confuse+MP busting? It's an often wasted combo. On the other hand, EBO paralysis is just killer).
3. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) - I feel he's sorta overrated, but he covers his bases well too. The magical durability against things he can't equip cheese and the physical reliance bite him when they matter, and sometimes they matter big.
4. Yunalesca (FFX) - I respect Absorb, which makes 'lesca pretty scary. 50% PC HP doesn't seem that much, but it matters when you have a good durability+speed combo, and the auto-PC ownage is useful.
5. Empyrea (DQ8) - Wall with overkill offense. Wallable herself, but hey. The dispelling and anti-physical/elemental game are neat enough.
6. Dhaos (ToP) - Eh. The spoiling is still respectable due to being so insanely comprehensive (PC-killing, spoils most physicals, spoils most magic). Rather underwhelming outside it, though (damage? Needs work. HP? DEFINITELY needs work. God help him if he meets past OHKO-level physicals, his regen just doesn't go that far).
7. Elc (AtLC) - Whores pretty well. Getting the first turn most of the time is great when you're so reliant on getting a buff game going, and he's awfully difficult to take down with damage before that to boot. On the other hand, he has issues making damage stick and being average after the first turn just sucks when you enjoy a good speed advantage on initiative, especially in a fast division like Godlike.
8. X (MMXCM) - Hmmm, I guess. Honestly, the gap between the people above and the people from here on is really huge. But X still feels a Godlike to me.
9. Lugia (PKMN) - I honestly tossup between Lugia and Sierra. While Sierra spoils better and has stronger offense, the durability gap just makes a lot of difference to me.
10. Sierra Mikain (S2) - Needs better speed and durability to make waves in Godlike. The skillset is crazy neat for the division in a very simple and elegant way, but while her stats are salvageable (speed is solid, mdur is okay), the physical durability failure and status vulnerability are terribly crippling.
11. Brahms (VPs) - Now to the Heavies. Remember when I said I'd be taking VP2 Brahms instead? Feel like List is distinct enough. Good Heavy slugger, but has the typical failings (entirely evadable, average speed, partly elementally reliant to boot, and even has some elemental weakness issues). VP2 equips help, as does the status immunity, at least.
12. Dhoulmagus (DQ8) - Underwhelms me in all respects. His truly good damage is actually a limit (if probably accessible and he has enough durability to see it often)? When it's already an evadable physical that spreads itself through a lot of hits (so, more vulnerable to lower-end evasion than usual)? Bad start. His status is a joke and the backup when his physical fails him is both terrible and easily wallable to boot, and he's lacking in speed. All he really has is the physical 2HKOing, solid durability and Dispel, and that doesn't make a Godlike with those failings saddled.
13. Naoto Shirogane (Pers4) - Yeah no. Waffled between her and Dhouly for the last spot, but Dhouly at least doesn't get hilariously owned by SH3 Lights, though Naoto does handle the likes of Lugia and Sierra, who eat Dhoul for breakfast. But this is the way of the spoiler, and Naoto's spoiling holes are just too glaring.


Heavy:

1. Ho-Oh (PKMN) - Honestly, the spoilability only hurts so much. Past that, the combo of good stats+healing+status immunity methods+good damage is just excellent, and Burn can handle people who hit his worse durability to boot.
2. Rayquaza (PKMN) - Brutal. Fairly fast, pretty durable and tends to just murder healers and sluggers. Doesn't handle the truly durable Heavy-type sluggers all that well, since he's barely within the range where he avoids being 3HKOed by average damage, but the blitz is quality, and having non-typed ITD 2HKO damage for backup only helps.
3. Lyon (S5) - ID+solid speed+non-elemental high 2HKO+acceptable physical+elemental walling nonsense. As an offensive fighter, Lyon covers her bases very well.
4. Kaus Debonair (OB) - More limited a slugger as the above, but just about as good as them otherwise.
5. Nina (BoF4) - Mulling over Nina's actual pdur, it honestly hit me that it matters less than you'd think: you need to at least both 2HKO -and- outspeed her if you're beating her with straight damage. Doing both things at once is ridiculously hard because she's like 140% average speed, and she has enough resources to outlast the vast majority of people who 2HKO her and are slower. And if you're trying to status or whore her out, you're just plain out of luck. Kasumi just spoils due to actually being one of the very few PCs in Heavy faster than her (see how well Emelia 2HKOing Nina went for her, and she's actually fast. Just lol resources - and Emelia's isn't even bad at resources! -, and Nina's faster after the first turn).
6. Joshua (FE8) - Beats Nina, but is basically just a typical evasive FE Heavy who doubles a lot of things. Those are usually above average Heavies, though, so it's fine.
7. Emelia (Saga) - Fast 2HKO that isn't too bad on resources is solid. She sorta lacks much else, though, and is sorta frail. Joshua's better performance against melee fighters, arguably better anti-healer methods and notable evade put him above Emelia pretty clearly. I think the notable speed difference against Tony matters more than the better damage and durability (since both have status immunity holes and Tony struggles more against evade), even though she loses to him in a duel.
8. Tony Eisler (MK) - Durable, damaging. His speed is slightly poor, but nothing too glaring. The status immunity holes, though, are sorta glaring for a boss.
9. Princess Toadstool (SMRPG) - Sleep really needed to be better at locking enemies down, and being average speed after the first turn sorta sucks. She has notably better offense, status blockers and elemental resistances than Cristo, though, and it hit me that, while she is notably less capable against physical fighters than him, the wider methods for shutting down mages, not fearing status nearly as much and the ability to 3HKO just matter too much.
10. Kiryl/Cristo (DQ4) - It's funny. Cristo beats a bunch of duellers who I put above him, but actually ends up being less than the sum of his parts. As a staller, he relies too much on the enemy being physical or an easily silenceable mage, and he's way too vulnerable to status himself. Spoils well and is an above average Heavy to me, but he has glaring holes against status whores and stronger blitzers (since he has to contend often against mages 2HKOing him or fighters just overwhelming his defenses if they're faster). The ID itself being very borderline on accuracy and his difficulties against the silence and ID-immune (he's not necessarily lost against them, but he struggles often against those issues) compound this further.
11. Edward "Edge" Geraldine (FF4) - Eh. He's just a fast status whore with a ghetto anti-physical trick (sorta like... yeah, he's actually sorta like less capable variation on Arnaud). Spoils often enough, but isn't too impressive as a Heavy.
12. Kasumi (Suikos) - She's not... THAT bad a Heavy, if only because ITE 3HKO off over 150% average speed is pretty good offense. Not great, though.
13. Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4) - Barely Heavy. P4 equips and elemental nonsense help, as well as the evade tricks, but he just doesn't have that much punch.
14. Barubary (BoF2) - Sort of a high Middle, quite frankly. An easily resisted 2HKO that above average magical durability of any sort turns into a 3HKO, 4-3'd by average speed, poor damage backup that is bound by a limit range and all that running off 1.5x PC HP. Basically, a character who has average damage, average speed and a bit above average magical durability beats him in a straight slugfest, and I'm not even considering how easily spoiled his damage is. This ain't impressing me in Heavy.


Middle

1. Massimo (MMXCM) - I'm damn near convinced Massimo is actually a Heavy now. Really underrated how brutal his durability/damage bursting game is, and the speed is less of an issue than I previously thought. Stopping him from getting the turns he needs to turn most PCs into mush is surprisingly difficult with the impressive durability. The elemental weakness does keep him in check -some-, but it also isn't that bad an issue with the Hyper Mode mending that problem. Good 2HKOers eat him for breakfast, but he doesn't meet -those- in Middle.
2. Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Tons of spoiling, solid enough damage, excellent equip options to back up her plentiful resources. Spoilable herself, but she's annoying enough to handle in Middle that I could see her working in Heavy.
3. Elly van Houten (XG) - One-trick pony, sure. But goddamn, is this one trick broken when it works. If you're not sleep-immune, you have to fatally disable Elly or die, and while she isn't great at durability, she has great statusblockers and isn't OHKOed very often. And there are enough sleep-vulnerable people to make this awesome.
4. Maya (LoL2) - Overrated but decently strong. Maya is really vulnerable to being 1.5HKOed, which makes her not like a lot of physical fighters (she gets 2HKOed through Gospel by like 48% PC HP damage), especially given the somewhat lacking speed. However, it's hard to ignore Legaia 2 equipment cheese and how good she gets when she's not getting 2HKOed through Gospel. She really wishes she had a speed buff, though, since this is what makes Yulie a superior dueller to Maya: Yulie very rarely has to worry about being 1.5HKOed with the speed game, and having to worry only against OHKOs is less problematic (Yulie and Maya being pretty similar on physical durability and all).
5. Dekar (Lufia 2) - Durable, good damage, IPs are a neat option. Problem is he's saddled with pretty awful speed. Utterly lost against status, and honestly the IP healing is overrated to boot (limit healing in general has issues, especially off the crap speed).
6. Landis (S3) - The freeze game is surprisingly brutal, actually, and the magic spoiling is neat.
7. Nanaki/Red XIII (FF7) - Solid limits, solid enough slugging for Middle, FF7 statusblocking. Works.
8. Elaine (S3) - Okay enough. Being generally above average speed doesn't hurt and S3 Water Rune is neat.
9. Miakis (S5) - Miakis has a bit better damage, far better equips and a bit more speed than Elaine. However, the healing worth difference is just too vast (and both have similar durability), and Elaine also gets Silent Lake as a neat niche option to boot, which should balance the elemental nonsense enough.
10. Ryudo (G2) - Is not a Middle I'd call good. The low end of this pool is pretty pathetic, though. Okay stats and ITE have niches, but the resource failure is really egregious - Ryudo gets reamed by healers almost as badly as Kain does.
11. Nergal (FE7) - Good 2HKO damage! Counters against both melee and range! This sounds great until you realize Nergal has terrible FE speed (halving his effective durability against a goddamned lot of people), horrible HP, is vulnerable to ID and loses initiative pretty much always. This leads to a "gets owned by average everything" machine, which is pretty shitty. He has issues.
12. Rikku (FFX) - Resource depth and better stalling abilities put Rikku above Tear to me. Damage is magnitudes worse, but at least she beats Middle PCs by stalling until a status Overdrive and is really quick.
13. Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - The defensive game, in theory, is pretty great. Problem is Luna's healing is trashy and her stats aren't great either, so her spoiling is rather limited. Sleep -does- help getting the defenses going, at least, and she's got more of a niche and spoils better than, say, Tear, who just universally underwhelms.
14. Tear Grants (TotA) - Eh. Poor resources, poor damage, poor speed, healing itself has issues. Also gets some inane hype that makes me want to rip people's arms in order to bludgeon them with their limbs.
15. Sharmista (S5) - God, Sharmista is like pre-Copper Flesh Hellion-lite. Really shitty stats across the board, the 2HKO doesn't nearly make up for the statstical failure. To add insult to injury, she doesn't even get S5's good elemental nonsense options. Just go to Light, where you don't totally suck.


Light:

1. Cinnamon (MMXCM) - Yeah, she's the closest one to Middle in this pool, which honestly isn't great. At least, Cinnamon is someone I could see in Middle.
2. Opera Vectra (SO2) - And the more I think about it, the more borderliner Opera feels. Man, SO2 equipment nonsense is kinda ridiculous.
3. Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) - Dhyer's assessment works. Zhuzhen has a few options, but none of them are good, and vague status failure+SH stalling having very fundamental issues if you're not named Hilda or Shania makes him really unlikely to win against way too many forms of healing.
4. Steena (CC) - Solid CCer, I guess. CC PCs tend to not -utterly suck ass- in the division outside really egregious cases.
5. Miluda Folles (FFT) - 3HKOs and counters. Works for the division.
6. Relm Arrowny (FF6) - 5HKOs! The durability and speed and elemental spoiling are pretty solid, though, so she could be worse as a Light.
7. Leena (CC) - Really not terribly inclined to give Leena a whole lot of credit even with zomg Auto-Life hype. I'll give it dues when I see it being awesome.
8. Cid Pollendina (FF4) - DURABILITY! Oh and a poor 4HKO of the worst damage type off crappy speed and bad MDef makes him status-bait. He actually deserved losing to Miluda there.
9. Irvine Kinneas (FF8) - FF8's suckass limit range isn't difficult to avoid even in Light, and Irvine is -worthless beyond belief- without that.
10. Dominia (XG) - No elemental cheese, no spoiling, nothing other than a crappy 2HKO at best running off XG lategame human boss HP (she's like what, 0.3x PC HP to me? You can't go anywhere with that durability if you're not running off WA4 boss speed and offense). Dominia just sorta doesn't win much at all ever off the sub-Nara survivability, and curses me not giving her support credit.
11. Augst Henriksen (WA4) - Really, really awful. Dhyer is wrong about VP mages without Heal having cases against Augst - they just beat him period if you allow them Wait Reaction. However, the elemental spoiling and me allowing damage tiebreaks - *Sticks tongue at Tally-chu.* - still makes him better than uh Ramus.
12. Ramus Farmain (L:SSSC) - Horrible.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 05:23:09 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Ultradude

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 07:41:11 PM »
Oh. Please number your lists, it makes it easier to count. Thanks.

Edit:

Quote
Miluda is OHKO bait in even middle and has, like, no damage, but an inkling of evade and speed go well with equipment breaking.

Miluda doesn't usually have equip breaks learned when you fight her; battle skill is useless for her in the DL for that reason.

...hm. I guess there is that...
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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2009, 09:05:25 PM »
Soren cries bitter tearz (Votes soon).

Godlike:
1. Ryu 3. Blocks all his otherwise awesome spoiler types minus going first and just smashing him to bits, and he even deals with some of those.
2. False Althena- Fast, damaging, durable. Somewhat wallable though.
3. Orlandu. Smashes things with crazy speed.
(3.5 Rikku! Might be higher though. At least here though)
4. Yunalesca- Yeah, I suppose
5. Nate- Status, healing, HolyAll, and laughs at the elements.
6. Elc- Another unique tank type PC.
7. Empyrea. Solid, damaging wall…although she tends to have a few gaps.
8. Dhaos. Duel spoiler with solid damage
9. Fereydoon. The charge time hurts. Not that durable (for a boss either. Although maybe for a boss in this field?!)
10. Brahms- Spoils some people well.
11. X- Better transformation than Kurando for pumping out damage quickly and for…well, physical durability at least. X heart is worth a bit though.
12. Dhoulmagus. Guess 12-14 is all rather close (but not moving on either way anyways, so don’t think to analyze too hard)
13. Kurando. Speed after turn 1 is vicious. Could switch with Sierra.
14. Sierra. At least has draining to get above Lugia.
15. Lugia.
16. Naoto. Pure ID whore.

Middle
1. Rikku. This bitch is a top tier Godlike.
2. Maya. Yeah, some people eat her alive, but the status/elemental walling/Gospel make her rather solid.
3. Yukiko- Doesn’t like the Ice weakness, but Auto-Suku+Damage+Think that Silence Weapon is about 50% accuracy too helps.
4. Massimo- His status being good gets him this high.
5. Dekar- Smashes. Doesn’t like status, and probably could be argued lower because of that.
6. Elly- Honestly, yeah, she got a lucky string this season, but ridiculous accuracy sleep that ignores evasion is pretty awesome.
7. Nanaki- I think his evasion limit was pretty solid? Basing this off that. Otherwise fast with average damage and evil potential later.
8. Landis. Gut of respecting tricks.
9. Nergal. Uh…kind of gut here. Defenses helps, but apparentally those weren’t as great as I thought. Could be notably lower.
10. Miakis- Walls decently, although she wants far better to complement that.
11. Elaine- Healing+Fast Physical+SL
12. Nightburn- Not having any respect for his HP doesn’t help him much.
13. Luna- She can grab some wins in Middle
14. Ryudo. Eh
15. Sharmista. Slow, undurable, wallable 2HKO. Unless unbalance has a turn 1 kick in rate, this works.
 Not truly solid enough on: Tear

Light:
1. Cinnamon. 4HKOs, but with above average speed, and solid durability during those 4 turns as well as status immunity, she’s the one in the pool that I best can see as a Middle overall.
2. Colette- Better speed, damage, and HP (not to mention slightly more thorough resists) should get her above Zhuzhen. Sure, he has better blockers, but those don’t matter much in a Light list.
3. Leena- This is under the assumption that Auto-Revive works and is awesome. Should test that.
4. Soren. Yeah, Astras on turn 2 to me, and that turn 2 is often a counter. Just always isn’t, and that PDur still hurts.
5. Zhuzhen- Decent variety, although not good at any one thing and poor HP and speed. Still, the 3HKO+decent physical back up+some status+some elemental resist+some healing cover him decently.
6. Irvine- I guess Limits are hard to avoid in Light. Could even be higher.
7. Opera- Having some respect for her healing (relative respect…) helps.
8. Steena- 3HKO with a decent punch, but 1D/slightly wallable.
9. Rebecca- Some speed with passable damage with a anti-healer move. Works.
10. Relm. Defensivish or something.
11. Dominia. Yeah, she can spoil some mages kind of. That HP though. Less speed ensures she’s no Tony.
12. Miluda- Well, she does beat Cid!
13. Cid. Spoilable, but he can spoil too. Guess that gets him over Flonne. Whatever, neither are moving on! Pdur would be something valid, but 50% Pdur kind of gets mitigated by 2/3 average damage and 2/3 average speed.
14. Flonne. Damage is okay maybe. Durability isn’t.
15. Augst. May lose to VP mages without Heal. WITHOUT.
16. Ramus.

Heavy is boring.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 09:12:56 PM by Dhyerwolf »
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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 09:20:25 PM »
Godlike:

1. Ryu 3
2. Empyrea
3. Brahms (still allow VP1 form since he is ranked as VP's, not VP2 like Hrist is!)
4. Cid Orlandu
5. Elc
6. Yunalesca
7. Lugia (Pretty sure at least one generation is godlike)
8. Kurando
9. Dhoulmagus (not godlike)
10. Sierra (Not Godlike)

Heavy:

1. Rayquaza
2. Lyon
3. Ho-oh
4. Barubary (Always had difficulty with him in game, and not impressed with the rest of these heavies)
5. Princess Toadstool
6. Joshua (Allow Audlahuma)
7. Nina 4
8. Kiryl/Cristo
9. Saturos
10. Emelia
11. Zelos (not seeing the hype for him at all)
12. Edge (not heavy if you dont allow Cat claws)
13. Kasumi (Not Heavy, just a strong Middle)
14. Tony (Really? He was really easy! I kind of understand Renee in heavy due to her mana which I dont allow, but Tony was kind of bad)

Middle

1. Rikku (allow common mixes and stuff)
2. Dekar (This pool sucks)
3. Nanaki (I underestimated him before)
4. Elly (Elly this high shows how weak this pool is)
5. Elaine (not horrible)
6. Nergal (at least has damage)
7. Ryudo
8. Tear
9. Miakis (Shes good, but not in the DL)
10. Sharmista (her rune is pretty good)
11. Landis (Spoils Mages... LOL at Freeze Hype)
12. Luna (NOT a Middle. Worse than Landis)

Light:

1. Opera (really a pretty good light)
2. Soren (why does he cry bitter tears Dhyer? Soren rocks this field! Except Opera)
3. Colette (general Colette respect)
4. Dominia (just average all around, but this light is weak)
5. Relm (Man Eater helps her here)
6. Steena
7. Miluda
8. Cid
9. Leena
10. Irvine
11. Flonne
12. Ramus (puny mc Punyson)

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 09:27:09 PM »
11. Zelos (not seeing the hype for him at all)

Good HP, excellent defense, a little healing, tons of elemental resist options, and high 2HKO damage against humans and beasts due to hitting a weakness with his weapons - Last Fencer against humans, Crystal Dagger against beasts.
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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 11:08:26 PM »
Sure, why the hell not.

Godlike:

1: Ryu (BoF3)
2: False Althena (Lunar:EBC)
3: Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT)
*Drop*
4: Nate Nanjo (Pers)
5: Empyrea (DQ8)
6: Brahms (VPs)
7: Kurando Inugami (SH2) - High respect kicking in, but I respect SH2 speed a bit more than most and he's pretty solid statwise.
8: Yunalesca (FFX)
9: Lugia (PKMN)
10: X (MMXCM)
11: Dhoulmagus (DQ8)
12: Naoto Shirogane (Pers4)


Heavy: Uh wow this is kinda close all told to me.

1: Rayquaza (PKMN) - Just solid.
2: Tony Eisler (MK)
3: Kaus Debonair (OB)
4: Edge Gereldine (FF4)
5: Princess Toadstool (SMRPG) - I think?
6: Ho-Oh (PKMN)
7: Nina (BoF4) - ahaha 84% durability or so physically doesn't cut it with that little damage. Oof.
8: Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
9: Kiryl/Cristo (DQ4)
10: Emelia (Saga)
11: Joshua (FE8)
*DROP*
12: Saturos (GS) - Yet I'd still see him as a Heavy, yeah.
*DROP*
13: Barubary (BoF2) - Borderline.


Middle

1: Rikku (FFX) - Godlike.
2: Maya (LoL2) - LoL2 equips and her own versatility offset the crummy durability - but she wouldn't cut it at all in Heavy.
3: Nanaki/Red XIII (FF7) - Overall solid package.
4: Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Wishes I allowed Miori Shirts!
5: Massimo (MMXCM) - Durability saves him.
6: Dekar (Lufia 2) - As it does him.
7: Elaine (S3) - Silent Lake Middle.
8: Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Meanwhile I definitely respect her. Accurate Sleep and the buffing makes her pretty scary for a Middle... but the rest of the group has more going for them, I think.
9: Ryudo (G2) - Okay, nothing special.
10: Nergal (FE7) - Insert Nergal respect here.
11: Landis (S3) - Insert Tai permastun respect here.

Light:

1: Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Control.
2: Flonne (Disgaea) - PB form.
3: Steena (CC) - Think I allow elements?
4: Leena (CC) - See above.
5: Miluda Folles (FFT) - LFT form.
6: Cinnamon (MMXCM)
7: Opera Vectra (SO2) - Spoiler potential.
8: Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
9: Irvine Kinneas (FF8)
10: Cid (FF4)
11: Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC)
12: Augst Henriksen (WA4)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 12:38:14 AM by Taitoro »

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2009, 01:21:00 AM »
Godlike:

1 Ryu (BoF3) - I think he's the only high Godlike here.
2 Dhaos (ToP) - He gets all kinds of favorable ARPG interp calls from me...
3 False Althena (Lunar2) - Good stats, good skillset, wants a real name.
4 Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) - Awesome, but physical reliance puts him at merely #4
5 Nate Nanjo (Pers) - Oh the spoiling!
6 Fereydoon (WA5)
7 Brahams (VPs) - Good spoiling, form choice, this high is fine.
8 Empyrea (DQ8) - DQ stats mattering.
9 Elc (AtLC) - Fun spoiler in Godlike. Standing up for PCs.
10 Yunalesca (FFX) - I guess I respect her Absorb this much.
11 Kurando Inugami (SH2)
12 X (MMXCM) - Toss up between him and Kurando.
13 Sierra Mikain (S2) - Good skillset wins her points here.
14 Lugia (PKMN) - Heavy is scared that she'll downgrade one day.
15 Dhoulmagus (DQ8) - Better than Naoto!
16 Naoto Shirogane (Pers4) - Well, at least she proved she can -get- this far.

Heavy:

1. Lyon (S5) - OHKOs things quickly to me.
2. Zelos Wilder (ToS) - OHKOs human things quickly to me.
3. Kaus Debonair (OB) - Wins if not spoiled.
4. Edge (FF4) - Lots of spoiling!
5. Rayquaza (PKMN) - Should probably be higher.
6. Ho-Oh (PKMN)
7. Emelia (SaGaF) - Initiative Two Gun damage is ridiculous. Arguably has claim to DSC thanks to costume switching.
8. Nina (BoF4) - Things are getting more ambiguous here. Winning Resource wars probably works here.
9. Joshua (FE8) - Audhulma hype (Not even mildly questionable by my equipment rules)
10. Toadstool (SMRPG) - Healer time!
11. Cristo (DQ4) - Hea~ling...
12. Yosuke Hanamura (P4) - Hea~ Well, he -can- heal. Solid P4-er.
13. Saturos
14. Tony Eisler (MK)
15. Kasumi (Suikos) - Still think she's a Middle.

Middle

1 Rikku (FFX) - All items and mixes! Godlike!
2 Yukiko Amagi (P4) - Cool healer-type, Endure + Miori spoils a lot of Middles.
3 Dekar (L2) - Being DEKAR spoils a lot of Middles.
4 Nightburn (WA5) - Solid Middle boss.
5. Elly van Houten (XG) - Lunar Rod, plus might have decent backup damage with Ethers if Sleep is blocked.
6. Nergal (FE7) - Does a few things right.
7. Miakis (S5)
8. Nanaki (FF7)
9. Ryudo (G2) - Solid Middle-types with decent stats.
10. Massimo (MMXCM) - Ugh the speed.
11. Elaine (S3) - Silent Lake in Middle is too good for her to be bottom tier.
12. Tear Grants (TotA) - Stats are good, but she wants to be in Light to get wins. Tales spell-casting speed anti-hype.
13. Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Hey there, status! Temp form isn't complete suck thanks to Ramus!
14. Sharmista (S5) - Bad. Why are you even ranked.
15. Landis (S3) - I'm still angry you upgraded.

Light:

1. Opera Vectra (SO2) - Could be a Middle, but likes hanging out with her friends in Light.
2. Cinnamon (MMXCM) - Could be a Middle, but somebody's gotta be a multi-time Light champ.
3. Soren (FE9) - Awesome + counters!
4. Colette Brunel (ToP) - Solid, which is saying a lot for Light.
5. Zhuzhen Liu (SH1) - Same here, but with more debilitating drawback (SP).
6. Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Guess what! Djinn hands out skillsets! Relm gets Starlet/Lakshmi and all the healing she'll ever need! Also, Control at least allows her to force her opponent to physical itself to me.
7. Rebecca Streisand (WA5) - Sky Medium~
8. Leena (CC) - Sure. Maiden Prayer.
9. Flonne (Dis) - Decent damage for Light. Also, I allow her to opt for Bow skills for some status. enough to buy some wins in Light.
10. Irvine Kinneas (FF8) - Probably allow him Ifrit, which gives him some meh Fire damage and Mad Rush. If I allow FF8 characters to start battles at 33% HP, he gets first-turn status, but he's slow and made of glass.
11. Steena (CC) - Holy-reliance may be worse than Water-reliance.
12. Cid (FF4) - Not really that bad.
13. Dominia (XG) - Could be worse. Might be higher if I ever start allowing XG characters to opt for their Gear forms.
14. Miluda Folles (FFT) - Really bad, but the next two barely count.
15. Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC) - Not quite Jogurt-level! Probably beats Shiho!
16. Augst Henriksen (WA4) - I didn't think he could get worse, but apparently his damage doesn't even kill. Fail.

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2009, 02:55:38 AM »
Godlike:

1. Ryu (BoF3)
2. False Althena (Lunar:EBC)
3. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT)
4. Empyrea (DQ8)
5. Yunalesca (FFX)
6. Fereydoon (WA5)
7. Brahms (VPs)
8. Dhaos (ToP)
9. X (MMXCM)
10. Dhoulmagus (DQ8)
11. Lugia (PKMN)
12. Sierra Mikain (S2)
13. Kurando Inugami (SH2)
14. Naoto Shirogane (Pers4)
15. Nate Nanjo (Pers)


Heavy: Hard pool.  Many Heavies I just never really think about in this group.

1. Rayquaza (PKMN)
2. Lyon (S5)
3. Nina (BoF4)
4. Tony Eisler (MK)
5. Zelos Wilder (ToS)
6. Ho-Oh (PKMN)
7. Barubary (BoF2)
8. Saturos (GS)
9. Kiryl/Cristo (DQ4)
10. Emelia (Saga)
11. Edge Gereldine (FF4)
12. Joshua (FE8)
13. Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)
14. Yosuke Hanamura (Pers4)
15. Kasumi (Suikos)

Middle

1. Rikku (FFX)
2. Nightburn Auckland (WA5)
3. Maya (LoL2)
4. Yukiko Amagi (P4)- Kneejerk.  Hax equips offset her poor speed a bit I think.
5. Nergal (FE7)
6. Nanaki/Red XIII (FF7)
7. Sharmista (S5)
8. Massimo (MMXCM)
9. Elly van Houten (XG)- I think a month ago she'd have been several spots down even!
10. Landis (S3)- Kinda slow but... tanky magically and remember, all those stuns are just a prelude to a fatal status.  Little weirded out at just how low he's being put honestly.
11. Dekar (Lufia 2)
12. Miakis (S5)
13. Elaine (S3)
14. Ryudo (G2)
15. Luna (Lunar:SSSC)
16. Tear Grants (TotA)

Light:

1. Cinnamon (MMXCM)
2. Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
3. Leena (CC)
4. Soren (FE9)
5. Irvine Kinneas (FF8)
6. Relm Arrowny (FF6)
7. Colette Brunell (ToS)
8. Steena (CC)
9. Miluda Folles (FFT)
10. Rebecca Streisand (WA5)
11. Cid (FF4)
12. Augst Henriksen (WA4)
13. Dominia (XG)- Uh Domina doesn't have the same "null a bunch of elements" trait as the other Elements.  And... you have to kill the others first to make her a legit fight, so they get support credit and she doesn't to my mind.  And... yeah, ends badly for her.
14. Flonne (Disgaea)
15. Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC)
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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 09:30:16 PM »
*Whips slackers* more votes!
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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 05:03:41 PM »
Godlike:

1. Ryu3
2. False Althena
3. Cidolfus Orlandu
4. Brahms
5. Yunalesca
6. Nate Nanjo
7. Dhaos
8. Kurando Inugami
9. Sierra Mikain
10. Lugia
11. Naoto

Heavy:

1. Lyon
2. Zelos Wilder
3. Rayquaza
4. Edge Gereldine
5. Nina4
6. Ho-Oh
7. Joshua
8. Cristo
9. Emelia
10. Princess Toadstool
11. Yosuke Hanamura
12. Kasumi

Middle

1. Rikku
2. Yukiko Amagi
3. Nanaki
4. Elaine
5. Elly van Houten
6. Ryudo
7. Nergal
8. Miakis
9. Tear Grants
10. Landis
11. Luna
12. Sharmista

...I'll do Light later.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 06:41:59 PM by ThePiggyman »
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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2009, 06:07:37 PM »
Godlike:

1. Yunalesca (FFX)
2 .Empyrea (DQ8)
3.Brahms (VPs)
4. Kurando Inugami (SH2)
5.Dhoulmagus (DQ8)
6.Naoto Shirogane (Pers4)


Heavy:

1.Lyon (S5)
2.Yosuke Hanamura w/th stuffs(Pers4)
3.Nina (BoF4)
4.Edge Gereldine (FF4)
5.Tony Eisler (MK)


Middle

1 - Rikku w/th stuffs
2 - Yukiko w/th stuffs
3 - Miakis (S5)
4 - Nanaki
4 - Rikku w/o stuffs (storeboughts only)
5 - Ryudo
6 - Yukiko w/o stuffs
6 - Sharmista

Light:

1. Opera Vectra (SO2)
2. Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
3. Relm Arrowny (FF6)
4. Leena (CC)
5.Steena (CC)
6. Cid (FF4)
7.Irvine Kinneas (FF8)
8.Augst Henriksen (WA4)


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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2009, 06:31:50 PM »
Godlike:

1. Ryu (BoF3) - Yeah, can't really be argued.
2. False Althena (Lunar:EBC) - Brutal.
3. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) - Also brutal.
4. Nate Nanjo (Pers) - Magic?  What is this thing you call magic?
5. Elc (AtLC) - Solid.
6. Lugia (PKMN) - Tank.
7. Sierra Mikain (S2) - Deathwhore.  Doesn't really have the stats to back it up in Godlike, though.

Brahms (VPs) - VP1 Brahms is so not legal to me.  Pity that's the only form I know.
Dhaos (ToP) - Headache

Heavy:

1. Ho-Oh (PKMN)
2. Rayquaza (PKMN) - Legendaries are brutal
3. Nina (BoF4) - Yeah, outspeeding her generally doesn't happen unless you're a freak.
4. Edge Gereldine (FF4) - Status is fun.
5. Joshua (FE8) - Typical FE swordfighter
6. Kaus Debonair (OB) - Would probably be higher if I voted on MotBQ.
7. Emelia (Saga) - Hard to argue with fast 2HKOers
8. Kiryl/Cristo (DQ4) - Eh, sure, I respect his stuff enough to put him here.
9. Princess Toadstool (SMRPG) - Solid enough.
10. Saturos (GS) - Not a good heavy.
11. Kasumi (Suikos) - Also not a good heavy.

Middle

1. Dekar (Lufia 2) - Hard to kill.  Status vulnerability sucks, though.
2. Elly van Houten (XG) - Lunar Rod spoiling
3. Nanaki/Red XIII (FF7) - Has some cool limits
4. Nergal (FE7) - I respect the defenses more than some.  HP is dogshit, though.
5. Ryudo (G2) - Completely unspectacular middle with resource issues.
6. Luna (Lunar:SSSC) - Meh.

Light:

1. Opera Vectra (SO2) - Generally good for Light.
*drop*
2. Steena (CC) - Generally competent CCer
*drop*
3. Cid (FF4) - Works
4. Miluda Folles (FFT) - Meh.  Wants LFT form badly.
5. Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Meh.
6. Flonne (Disgaea) - Has average damage, at least!
7. Leena (CC) - *punts Maiden Prayer hype* I've used that move.  It is shit.  Nothing she has is worth caring about.
8. Irvine Kinneas (FF8) - Uh might be troublesome if you hit him into limit range?
9. Dominia (XG) - Shit.
10. Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC) - Ramus.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 06:36:25 PM by Random Consonant »

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2009, 06:36:40 PM »
Nostalgia.

Godlike:

1. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT)
2. Ryu (BoF3)
3. Brahms (VPs)
4. Elc (AtLC)
4. Dhoulmagus (DQ8)
5. Sierra Mikain (S2)
6. Empyrea (DQ8)
7. Kurando Inugami (SH2)
8. Fereydoon (WA5)
9. False Althena (Lunar:EBC)
10. Yunalesca (FFX)

Heavy:

1. Kaus Debonair (OB)
2. Barubary (BoF2)
3. Kiryl/Cristo (DQ4)
4. Zelos Wilder (ToS)
5. Emelia (Saga)
6. Edge Geraldine (FF4)
7. Kasumi (Suikos)
8. Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)
9. Joshua (FE8)
10. Tony Eisler (MK)
11. Nina (BoF4)

* Infinite_Ko_Loop is now known as Ko-CidisnotaPrincess
<Nephrite> That is depressing.
<CmdrKing> I know.  Cid would makea  great princess.

Clear Tranquil

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2009, 07:16:31 PM »
Eh P4's Endure is only survive w/th 1HP so even if Leena's revival is shit or just a % of revival I'd probably afford it around the same level of respect Endure is afforded >_>
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Random Consonant

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2009, 07:55:46 PM »
Leena doesn't have Auto-Revival.  Or at least nothing I've seen indicates that she does.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2009, 10:39:39 PM »
There's the -possibility- that her L7 casts Auto-Life on her. And there's a vast difference between have a passive, automatic HP-1 Auto-Life that requires no commitment and having to cast a shoddy Auto-Life that's only usable OPB -and- turn two that also massively delays your next turn.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2009, 12:50:11 AM »
 ... Endure's also OPB I thought? >_>
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2009, 12:59:31 AM »
It is. It also matters a lot less when you don't have to commit at least two of your turns to cast it, and quite possibly letting the enemy get three turns on you.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Lance

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2009, 01:17:59 AM »
Godlike
1.) Ryu (BoF3)
2.) False Althena (Lunar:EBC)
3.) Dhaos (ToP)
4.) Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT)
5.) Yunalesca (FFX)
6.) Empyrea (DQ8)
7.) Dhoulmagus (DQ8)
8.) Brahms (VPs)
9.) X (MMXCM)
10.) Fereydoon (WA5)
11.) Lugia (PKMN)
12.) Sierra Mikain (S2)
13.) Kurando Inugami (SH2)

Heavy
1.) Zelos Wilder (ToS)
2.) Barubary (BoF2)
3.) Nina (BoF4)
4.) Lyon (S5)
5.) Ho-Oh (PKMN)
6.) Edge (FF4)
7.) Joshua (FE8)
8.) Princess Toadstool (SMRPG)
9.) Kiryl (DQ4)
10.) Kaus Debonair (OB)
11.) Emelia (Saga)
12.) Kasumi (Suikos)

Middle
1.) Massimo (MMXCM)
2.) Nergal (FE7)
3.) Rikku (FFX)
4.) Tear Grants (TotA)
5.) Nanaki (FF7)
6.) Dekar (Lufia 2)
7.) Nightburn Auckland (WA5)
8.) Ryudo (G2)
9.) Miakis (S5)
10.) Elaine (S3)
11.) Sharmista (S5)
12.) Landis (S3)
13.) Elly van Houten (XG)
14.) Luna (Lunar:SSSC)

Light
1.) Opera Vectra (SO2)
2.) Colette Brunell (ToS)
3.) Soren (FE9)
4.) Steena (CC)
5.) Relm Arrowny (FF6)
6.) Zhuzhen Liu (SH1)
7.) Irvine Kinneas (FF8)
8.) Cinnamon (MMXCM)
9.) Leena (CC)
10.) Rebecca Streisand (WA5)
11.) Cid (FF4)
12.) Miluda Folles (FFT)
13.) Dominia (XG)
14.) Augst Henriksen (WA4)
15.) Flonne (Disgaea)
16.) Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: List topic: Season 55
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2009, 05:18:45 AM »
Godlike:

---High---
1. Ryu (BoF3): It's Ryu 3.
---Near-High---
2. False Althena (Lunar:EBC): I'm not sure how Cid and FA compare to me. Cid beats Yuna, FA beats Ryu. FA probably outslugs some other High Godlikes, but Cid seems more solid at avoiding spoilers from below? Hmm, maybe. Ultimately, though, I think physical walls are a touch too common in Godlike for Cid's taste, but... very close.
3. Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT): See above.
---Mid---
4. Yunalesca (FFX): Durability made better by a few tricks, unavoidable damage, PC slaying of doom. Good all-round package, but the raw offence isn't what a High Godlike wants.
5. Empyrea (DQ8): She's pretty weak as far as Godlike champs go. Needs more raw HP, needs not to be spoiled by physicals... but OHKO damage off good speed can go reasonably far.
6. Fereydoon (WA5): Kicks ass unless you're in a certain speed zone, then he's Low Godlike. And even if you're not in that zone... his overall offence is good but not incredible, same with the durability. Not High or anything. So this works.
7. Lugia (PKMN): Wishes that healing were full, but otherwise, spoils many things well.
8. X (MMXCM): Competent in the lower end of the division as a raw slugger.
---Low-
9. Kurando Inugami (SH2): SH statusblockers and haste-healing off decent (but certainly not amazing) resources is nice. Wishes he had some buffs or standout offence to seal the deal.
10. Sierra Mikain (S2): Instant death and draining are both good, but nothing about the stats or optoins is Godlike. Sierra is pretty much the defining 4.5 to me, these days.
11. Brahms (VPs): Hilariously, I think VP1 Brahms is only around #9 for me. He just had a dream season. A Heavy, a near-pure fighter, and a pure fighter? Yeah. Of course, I vote on VP2, who is a tanky, 2HKOing PC with good statusblockers, and can do well around the 4.3 mark.
12. Dhoulmagus (DQ8): Brahms2 and Dhouly are close, I just never end up kneejerking for the latter for some reason. His PC spoiling doesn't really work well in practice, and slow low 2HKOers don't scar much unless their HP is crazy like Zog.

Heavy:

1. Lyon (S5): I don't think she' squite borderline, but she is good.
2. Ho-Oh (PKMN): He feels like he should be better, but fire reliance does hurt.
3. Nina (BoF4): Wishes she had more pdur, but it matters less often than you might think. Unless she's OHKOed or outsped, she's faster than almost everyone + evades + heals. Status immunity and element blocking is all there for serious spoiling.
4. Rayquaza (PKMN): He's got a super-fast turn 2 kill, but it's not a great kill and he has nothing against status besides maybe some berry hype maybe. Still, good enough here.
5. Tony Eisler (MK): Competent 2HKOing boss with some HP. Actually he's not terribly different from Dhoulmagus overall. (Less backup optoins, but his best option has Break attached.)
6. Edge Gereldine (FF4): Status claws off that speed work well enough, and Image adds some extra spoiling.
7. Princess Toadstool (SMRPG): Elementally resistant healer with solid stats and some blockers.
8. Kasumi (Suikos): Insane speed 2HKOer works well enough.
9. Joshua (FE8): Good, but in a 3.8ish way.
10. Barubary (BoF2): Middle!

Abstain: Kiryl, currently undecided how I treat DQ4 PCs, leaning towards switching to DS since it isn't AI, but we don't have ID tests for Kiryl there, and.. yeah, they kinda matter for him!

Middle

1. Massimo (MMXCM): Yeah, very overall impressed with him too now. He has options against status, busts healers unlike Axl, and is a mean slugger with the high HP + Hyper Mode boosts.
2. Nanaki/Red XIII (FF7): Increasingly impressed with his options.
3. Nightburn Auckland (WA5): Maybe a bit shy of the border, but good.
4. Elly van Houten (XG): "I almost always win if you don't immune Sleep". People tend to underrate one-status types, myself included. This week I'm compensating and may be overrating her, but eh.
5. Maya (LoL2): Bad pdur hoses her some, but... this isn't an incredible Middle, so this works.
6. Dekar (Lufia 2): Wants some statusblockers or wishes his healing were a bit more reliable. Still, it was good enough against Red, and that's something.
7. Elaine (S3): Quick healing and the SL option.
8. Miakis (S5): She's okay.
9. Nergal (FE7): Get some durability.
10. Landis (S3): Good against mages but pretty bad against fighters.
11. Tear Grants (TotA): Needed that speed.
12. Luna (Lunar:SSSC): Yeah, I went there. Luna > Ryudo, bitches. Sleep on the physicals and a good anti-physical buff means she can hang around 3.1 or so.
13. Ryudo (G2): Is barely a Middle at all. Fairly average with an "auto-loses to healers" caveat. Come back when you can beat the average Light Suiko Water Rune user kthx.
14. Rikku (FFX): Decent Light. Heal until weak overdrive.
15. Sharmista (S5): Wow did we misjudge her.

Light:

1. Opera Vectra (SO2): Her damage is better than I thought (says little, but) and she spoils a lot between her modest healing and element/status stuff. Won't go far in Middle, but...
2. Cinnamon (MMXCM): MMXCM dueller, Light version. Still, solid there, as this season showed.
3. Zhuzhen Liu (SH1): Zhuzhen's light status keeps healers from auto-beating him though he still hates them, and he has a fair amount of his own spoiling. He's kinda like Opera with more limitations.
4. Steena (CC): One of the best CCers in Light, apparently. Has a high 3HKO which 2HKOs a lot of Light and can heal-lock effectively, along with decent speed.
5. Dominia (XG): Has a pretty decent 3-2 3HKO strategy (fast 2HKO the frail) along with awesome mdur. However, I think she baaarely loses to the pure average fighter (barely 2HKOed, barely doesn't 3-2). Kinda Tony-ish, but a bit worse due to being merely fast.
6. Soren (FE9): Counters and regular hits add up, and mdur is respectable. Pdur sucks (both evade and concrete), of course... he's a lot like Lucius, but with more elements!
7. Rebecca Streisand (WA5): Slightly below average slugger with some speed.
8. Relm Arrowny (FF6): Considerably below average slugger with some speed and elemental/status blocking.
9. Miluda Folles (FFT): Wishes her durability didn't suck.
10. Cid (FF4): Wishes his speed didn't suck, and the damage doesn't help.
11, Irvine Kinneas (FF8): FF8 is rarely any good to me, and Irvine is probably the worst of the bunch. (Could also be Quistis, but her limits are better.)
12. Leena (CC): Steena ended up better than I expected when I looked at the numbers. Leena ended up much worse. 4HKO? Get some real techs, woman.
13. Ramus Farmain (Lunar:SSSC): Has HP! He's Ramus, otherwise.
14. Flonne (Disgaea): And despite that, the only thing she beats Ramus in is speed.
15. Augst Henriksen (WA4): RANK SINSPAWN AMMES.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 12:44:38 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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