FF8 Proving Grounds Knock-off!

[DjinnAndTonic]

Because I find the Junctioned set-ups I have for the FF8 characters to be extremely interesting, but I know they'll never see use in the DL by most of you, I wanted to set this up to see how these forms would do if everyone voted on them for fun.

Set up in the same format as super's Proving Grounds tourney. In fact, the opponents were just blatantly copied from super's most recent M/H/G Proving Grounds matches. (Speaking of which, super - revive those!)

Here are the forms, based on GF base compatibility.

Junctioned Damage Average: 2270.5 (2764.5 w/ Zell's Str Bonus)
(7022 Zell's Physical w/ Str Bonus)
4058 Zell's Physical
2235 Squall's Darkside
2185 Rinoa's Leviathan summon
1897 Quistis' Shiva summon
1892 Irvine's Quezacotl summon
1356 Selphie's Siren summon

Junctioned averages!
Average HP: 5673
Average VIT: 40
Average SPR: 61
Average SPD: 36


Squall:
Diablos
HP: 3000
Summon: Dark Messenger - Gravity-based percentage damage, MT Percentage based on level (50% mHP damage at L50, 100% mHP damage at L100) Damage cannot exceed 9999 cap.
Mug: Physical + Steal
Darkside : 3x Physical damage (2235), costs 10% mHP

Innate boosts: (Can only equip 3, stackable)
Mag+20%,40%  
HP+20%,40%,80%  
GFHP+10%,20%,30%  
Ability x3 – can equip up to 3 innate boosts.

Menu abilities:
Time Magic Refine -Slow, Haste, Stop, Quake, Demi, Double, Triple
Status Magic Refine - Silence, Berserk, Bio, Blind, Confuse, Sleep, Break, Pain, Meltdown
Junctions: Mag, HP, Hit

Squall's stats [with Junctions] (Junctioned spells/abilities)
HP - 4187 [9999] (PainX100) (HP+80%, HP+40%)
STR - 47
VIT - 41
MAG - 45 [115] (TripleX100)
SPR - 36
SPD - 37
LUK - 22
Hit - 255 [255] (DoubleX100 for a +40 boost! Yes!)

Squall's physical: 745 (1117 with/ critical trigger)

Squall can increase his Hit, too, but his weapon is already a 255 (max) Hit weapon. With Diablo, Squall gets access to a summoning meatshield that deals cHP damage against anything that doesn't resist Gravity. He also gets Darkside to deal 3x his normal (already game-best) physical for the minor cost of 10% mHP. Oh, and he hits the HP cap easily with HP+80% and +40%, which stack. He even has room left over for another innate boost thanks to Ability x3. If you allow the PCs to actually -cast- their refined spells and not simply equip them (I don't), then Squall is also a nasty status whore.


Rinoa:
Leviathan  
HP: 3550
Summon: Tsunami – 2185 MT Water magic damage
Recover - Heals at no MP cost!

Innate boosts: (Can only equip two, stackable)
Spr+20%,40%  
SumMag+10%,20%,30%  
GFHP+10%,20%,30%  
Boost 230%

Menu commands:
Support Magic Refine - Esuna, Dispel, Protect, Shell, Reflect, Drain, Aura

Junctions: Spr, Mag, Elem DefX2, Elem Atk

Rinoa's stats [w/ Junctions] (Junctioned spells/abilities)
HP - 4181
STR - 67
VIT - 31
MAG - 63 [87] (AuraX100)
SPR - 39 [111 (177 w/ Spr+40%,20%)] (ReflectX100)
SPD - 36
LUK – 22

Fire, Ice, Thunder Def: 40% (ProtectX100, ShellX100)
All other Elem Def: 20% (ShellX100)

Rinoa's physical: 815

Rinoa gets a big boost to her magic durability if you allow Junctioning. She also picks up the hardest-hitting GF of the PCs, so she'll be using that primarily for offense. More importantly, she gets the Recover commad, which is nearly-full free healing that she can spam every turn. So she basically becomes a staller who you must OHKO or outspeed.


Quistis:
Shiva  
HP: 2750
Summon: Diamond Dust – 1897 MT Ice magic damage
Doom – 100% ID when Timer reaches 0.

Innate boosts: (Can only equip two, stackable)
Spr+20%,40%  
Vit+20%,40%  
SumMag+10%,20%,30%  
GFHP+10%,20%  
Boost 180%

Menu commands:
Ice Magic Refine - Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga, Water

Junctions: Spr, Str, Vit, Elem Atk, Elem DefX2

Quistis' stats [w/ Junctions] (Junctioned spells/abilties)
HP - 3883
STR - 46 [76] (BlizzagaX100)
VIT - 30 [44 (62 w/ Vit+40%) (70 w/ Vit+40,20%)] (WaterX100)
MAG - 42
SPR - 34 [42 (59 w/ Spr+40%) (72 w/ Spr+40,20%)] (BlizzaraX100)
SPD - 34
LUK - 21

Ice Def: 50% (BlizzardX100)
*Ice Def: 150% (Absorbs damage as HP) (BlizzagaX100)
*Ice Atk: 100% (Physical becomes Ice-elemental) (BlizzagaX100)

Quistis' physical: 949

*Quistis can drop her STR boost to opt for an Ice-elemental attack for whatever reason, she probably prefers to just summon Shiva in this case. But she can also drop her STR boost for the ability to absorb Ice-elemental attacks.

Quistis gets a nice STR boost, but at the moment, I'm not sure what kind of effect this has on her physical damage output besides 'it increases'. She also picks up some fun Ice-elemental tricks and Doom, which might allow her to stall until ID hits against slower opponents. The defense boosts are a nice addition, too. Water is sucky spell for Junctioning compared to the other elemental magic refine sets.


Zell:
Ifrit  
HP: 3100
Summon: Hell Fire - 1980 MT Fire magic damage
Mad Rush: Grants Berserk (Damage+50%), Protect, Haste to party

Innate boosts: (Can only equip two, stackable)
Str+20%,40%  
Str Bonus (+1 Str per level up)
SumMag+10%,20%,30%  
GFHP+10%,20%30%  
Boost   180%

Menu commands:
Fire Magic Refine    - Fire, Fira, Firaga, Flare
Ammo Refine
Junctions: Str, HP, Elem-DefX2, Elem-Atk

Zell's stats [w/ Junctions] (Junctioned spells/abilities)
HP - 4018 [5418] (FiragaX100)
STR - 47 [153 (214 w/ Str+40%) (245 w/ Str+40%,20%)] (FlareX100) (Str Bonus)
VIT - 33
MAG - 42
SPR - 27
SPD - 35
LUK - 20

Fire Def: 130% (Absorbs Fire as HP) (FiraX100, FireX100 to both Elem-Defs)
*Fire Atk: 50% (Physical gets Fire-element attributes) (FireX100)

Zell's physical (full boosts): 7022
Zell's physical (Flares only) : 1684
Zell's physical (Flares+Str+40%) : 3177
**Zell's physical (Flares+Str+60%) : 4058

**Str Bonus of 50 is ridiculous, so some people might prefer this number.

*Zell can lose some Fire resistance (down to 80%) and Junction his Fire spells to Elem-Atk to get a Fire elemental physical for whatever reason. He probably wants to use Ifrit in this case, but then again, his STR stat is awesome.

Yikes. Ifrit's skills are well-tailored for dueling. STR Bonus grants a point of STR at every level up. This would mean that if Zell had Ifrit from level 1, he'd get a +98 STR increase because FF8 characters' stats are taken at L99 in the DL for some reason. I'm capping this at STR+50 for a more conservative estimate, but just be aware that it could be higher. Additionally, Ifrit also allows STR junctioning AND STR percent boosts, so Zell can almost hit the STR cap. Not sure how much damage this translates to in his physical, but needless to say, it's a lot. To top it off, he can use Mad Rush, which Berserks him (no Limit hype then), but it also boosts his damage further AND he gets Haste and Protect out of the deal to become a speedy physical powers who absorbs Fire for good measure. If he needs magic damage for whatever reason, he'll drop the Str boosts and go for Summon Magic boosting to get some mileage out of Ifrit's not-too-shabby summon, too.


Selphie:
Siren  
HP: 2700
Summon: Silent Voice - 1356 and high chance of Silence
Treatment: Cures all status effects

Innate boosts: (Can only equip two, stackable)
Mag+20%,40%  
Mag Bonus  
SumMag+10%,20%,30%  
GFHP+10%,20%  
Boost   200

Menu commands:
Life Magic Refine    - Cure, Cura, Curaga, Regen, Life, Full-Life, Holy, Zombie, Death
Status Medicine Refine  
Tool Refine  
Junctions: Mag, St-DefX2, St-Atk

Selphie's stats [w/ Junctions] (Junctioned spells/abilities)
HP - 3680
STR - 45
VIT - 28
MAG - 49 [119 (167 w/ Mag+40%) (190 w/ Mag+40,20%)] (CuragaX100) (Mag Bonus)
SPR - 38
SPD - 37
LUK - 26

Status Attack: 100% ID attached to physical (DeathX100)
*Status Attack: 100% Zombie status attached to physical (ZombieX100) I believe Zombie ends a match if all remaining opponents are Zombies.
Status Def(x2 slots): 80% ID resist, 40% resist against Poison, Berserk, Zombie, Sleep, Curse, Confuse, Drain (HolyX100, Full-LifeX100)
*Stat Def(x2 slots): 100% ID resist (DeathX100), 100% Zombie resist (ZombieX100)

Selphie's physical: 465

Well, Siren works really well with Selphie's weapon. She's able to get two flavors of 100% ID attached to her ITE physical. Yikes. She can also opt to junction these to her status defense for 100% ID protection if necessary. Her Magic stat got a nice boost too, which is useful if you allow her to cast Holy from the menu, or if not, STILL useful thanks to how it effects the power of her Limits. She also has Silence by summoning Siren should she be facing an ID-immune mage. Regen and Curaga are nice too if you allow them to cast their menu-refined spells (I don't).


Irvine:
Quezacotl  
HP: 2850
Summon: Thunder Storm – 1892 MT Thunder magic damage
Card - ID. Sucess percentage increases as enemy's HP decreases, turns enemy into a card. Godly.

Innate boosts: (Can only equip two, stackable)
Mag+20%, 40%  
SumMag+10%,20%,30%  
Boost 180%
GFHP+10%,20%  

Menu commands:
Thunder Magic Refine - Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga, Aero, Tornado
Mid Magic Refine  
Card Mod  

Junctions: HP, Vit, Elem DefX2, Elem Atk

Irvine's stats [w/ Junctions] (Junctioned spells/abilities)
HP - 3880 [6880] (TornadoX100)
STR - 45
VIT - 31 [47] (ThundagaX100)
MAG - 42 [42 (59 w/ Mag+40%) (67 w/ Mag+40,20%)]
SPR - 28
SPD - 39
LUK - 21

Thunder Def (x2 slots): 130% (Absorbs Thunder as HP) (ThundaraX100, ThunderX100)
*Wind Def (+Thun Def in slot2): 80% (AeroX100, ThundaraX100)
*Thunder/Wind Atk (1 slot only): 80% Thunder or Wind-elemental physical (ThundaraX100 OR AeroX100)

Irvine's physical: 490

Irvine picked up some increased durability and Thunder/Wind elemental tricks. Nothing particularly exciting, but the increased HP means that his Limit range is little broader and he's more likely to survive being knocked into range so he can unleash the big damage or status whoring. Also spoils Thunder/Wind reliant characters and picks up a summoning meatshield with magic damage. He probably doesn't care about the Magic stat boost and will opt for the SumMag boost instead to increased Quezacotl's summoning effectiveness.


AND THE MATCHES!

Squall vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Squall vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Squall vs Geno (SMRPG)
Squall vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Squall vs Alicia (VP2)
Squall vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Squall vs Feena (G1)
Squall vs Asellus (Saga)
Squall vs Fenril (OB)
Squall vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Squall vs Tiamat (FF1)
Squall vs Eileen (S1)
Squall vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Squall vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Squall vs Lyon (FE8)

Rinoa vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Rinoa vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Rinoa vs Geno (SMRPG)
Rinoa vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Rinoa vs Alicia (VP2)
Rinoa vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Rinoa vs Feena (G1)
Rinoa vs Asellus (Saga)
Rinoa vs Fenril (OB)
Rinoa vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Rinoa vs Tiamat (FF1)
Rinoa vs Eileen (S1)
Rinoa vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Rinoa vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Rinoa vs Lyon (FE8)

Rinoa vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Rinoa vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Rinoa vs Geno (SMRPG)
Rinoa vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Rinoa vs Alicia (VP2)
Rinoa vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Rinoa vs Feena (G1)
Rinoa vs Asellus (Saga)
Rinoa vs Fenril (OB)
Rinoa vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Rinoa vs Tiamat (FF1)
Rinoa vs Eileen (S1)
Rinoa vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Rinoa vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Rinoa vs Lyon (FE8)

Quistis vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Quistis vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Quistis vs Geno (SMRPG)
Quistis vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Quistis vs Alicia (VP2)
Quistis vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Quistis vs Feena (G1)
Quistis vs Asellus (Saga)
Quistis vs Fenril (OB)
Quistis vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Quistis vs Tiamat (FF1)
Quistis vs Eileen (S1)
Quistis vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Quistis vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Quistis vs Lyon (FE8)

Zell vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Zell vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Zell vs Geno (SMRPG)
Zell vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Zell vs Alicia (VP2)
Zell vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Zell vs Feena (G1)
Zell vs Asellus (Saga)
Zell vs Fenril (OB)
Zell vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Zell vs Tiamat (FF1)
Zell vs Eileen (S1)
Zell vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Zell vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Zell vs Lyon (FE8)

Selphie vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Selphie vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Selphie vs Geno (SMRPG)
Selphie vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Selphie vs Alicia (VP2)
Selphie vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Selphie  vs Feena (G1)
Selphie vs Asellus (Saga)
Selphie vs Fenril (OB)
Selphie vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Selphie vs Tiamat (FF1)
Selphie vs Eileen (S1)
Selphie vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Selphie vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Selphie vs Lyon (FE8)

Irvine vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Irvine vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Irvine vs Geno (SMRPG)
Irvine vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Irvine vs Alicia (VP2)
Irvine vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Irvine vs Feena (G1)
Irvine vs Asellus (Saga)
Irvine vs Fenril (OB)
Irvine vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Irvine vs Tiamat (FF1)
Irvine vs Eileen (S1)
Irvine vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Irvine vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Irvine vs Lyon (FE8)

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'd be interested in voting on this topic, but we totally need damage numbers for the physicals or there's just too much speculation.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Well, if anyone knows FF8's damage formula, I can number-crunch it.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Noticing that the only two PCs whose physical changed was Quistis and Zell, I just did the the tests. Junctioned averages and physical damage up.

Also, while perusing BMG-land, I found the activation rates for Rinoa's passive Limits, I'm sure you all care! (Also posted in the FF8 stat topic)



There is also a chance of Angelo performing mid-battle skills to aid the party. The chance of this is low, but for completion, here they are. Activation rates from this BMG (http://www.forte.spacequadrat.de/home/ff8/final_fantasy_viii_battle_mechanics.txt) .

Angelo Rush: 1068 randomly counters when Rinoa is attacked. (6.2% counter rate)
Angelo Recover: 62.5% Healing (6.6% counter rate)
Angelo Reverse: Angelo uses a Phoenix down on a fallen party member (Revive + 12.5% mHP). This works if Rinoa is the last one standing. (3/256 activation rate)
Angelo Search: Steals an item! (8/256 activation rate)



LET THE VOTING BEGIN!

[Clear Tranquil]

Rinoa vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) IAI STRIKE hype!?
Rinoa vs Alicia (VP2) - Average speed, average speed, infinite healing, infinite healing ... ... ...
Rinoa vs Celes Chere (FF6)- Status
Rinoa vs Feena (G1) - Feena offence off Time Gate~
Rinoa vs Flay Gunnar (MK) - Ehhh ... wonder if Flay OHKOs Rinoa w/th ATK up + DEF down skillz, if not she's faster w/th infinite healing/resources, affords a stall victory.

Rinoa's ... Alicia but w/o the VPII equip nonsense/etc that boosts Alicia to Heavy.

Quistis vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Quistis vs Alicia (VP2)
Quistis vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Quistis vs Feena (G1)
Quistis vs Flay Gunnar (MK)

See Selphie but worse off basically, nails non ID immunes but doesn't have an extra status to play with if ID fails/can't force an opponent to choose between accessories, etc. She's slower than Selphie too.

Selphie vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - God the FF9 cast hates ID~
Selphie vs Alicia (VP2) - Uhh ... on one hand VP2 ID blocker ... On the other hand ... Alicia. However because Alicia *is* Alicia (vaguely sucks at offence irrc) she can probably chip Selphie down and Nibelung Valesti past limit range? I dunno. This fails.
Selphie vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Not sure if I allow two status blocker accessories for FFVI characters but uhh ... Celes can maybe block one of them with an armour or something. Hell if I've played FFVI for ages.
Selphie  vs Feena (G1) I'm inclined to allow ID blockers to catch Zombie in games that don't have zombie as a seperate status/with seperate blockers. Again haven't played Grandia in ages though. From what I know Feena blocks ID w/th her boots and can use an accessory to block Silence.
Selphie vs Flay Gunnar (MK) - Geez I usually don't allow MK characters Aroma Materials but in this unique situation of FF8 characters w/th GFs >_> Edit: Oh hell Aroma Materials don't catch ID anyway? <_<

Selphie did better than I expected - 100% ID/Zombie w/th Silence as a nifty niche is just nasty. Being above average speed helps too. She could be even better depending on whether or not I decide to allow her allow Holy/Curaga/Regen spam abuse and or limit stalling/self inflicted status for crisis % increase.

[Ultradude]

Squall vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9): Faster, Dark Messenger.
Squall vs Geno (SMRPG): Whirl.
Squall vs Celes Chere (FF6): Imp.
Squall vs Agrias Oaks (FFT): See Steiner.
Squall vs Lyon (FE8): Lyon should barely miss the 2HKO! Wow.

So. Um. If I'm reading Dark Messenger right he 2HKOs every PC ever unless they can block Gravity. Not only that but he has obscene HP to survive or help him get a limit, and Darkside to play around with his HP to encourage getting knocked into limit range. Beats average speed too! Still loses to whatever status can get around and hit him before his second turn, and most bosses immune Gravity, but pretty nasty in Heavy.

If I have something off about Dark Messenger he probably blows?

Rinoa vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9): Iai Strike hype CT!
Rinoa vs Geno (SMRPG): Whiiiirl.
Rinoa vs Celes Chere (FF6): Status
Rinoa vs Agrias Oaks (FFT): Uhhhhh.
Rinoa vs Lyon (FE8): MT ignores counters.

Healing! Forever! Average speed too! Junction to Spr makes her a magic tank unless defensive stats really blow in FF8. On the other hand, any half competent physical can 2HKO her, and the damage is only average. Doesn't beat too many heavies, but an okay Middle I guess like this.

Quistis vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Quistis vs Geno (SMRPG)[/b]
Quistis vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Quistis vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Quistis vs Lyon (FE8)

Right. Well I don't know how fast FF8 Doom is.

Pretty unsure about how to take Zell's Str Bonus so ignoring it for now. Bad form? Maybe >_>
Zell vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9): Mad Rush should kick Steiner's ass.
Zell vs Geno (SMRPG): Whirl~
Zell vs Celes Chere (FF6): Status
Zell vs Agrias Oaks (FFT): Don't think evade saves her?
Zell vs Lyon (FE8): Gets off a very low HP limit break. Ouch.

While below average speed and durability make a high 2HKO not so scary, he's still got some fun things going for him. Namely, Mad Rush, which makes him physically tanky, fast, and pushes him to OHKOing with a little room to spare. Geno and Celes continue to flip this pool off something fierce, but the blitz and standard FF8 Limit Break should let him at least compete in Heavy a bit.

[Talaysen]

IIRC, Dark Messenger works on bosses too.  It just slams into the 9999 damage cap.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Some bosses block gravity in FF8, others do not, so Dark Messenger works on those.

The damage DM does is based on Diablos' level which I dunno how high I see that, but somewhere in the 50-99 range (i.e. 2HKO) does seem reasonable?

[Dhyerwolf]

Well...maybe if you took the PC stats at level 99. In just a normal playthrough (aka, not running around doing extra leveling), PCs ended up around level 40 (and I think Diablos was similar. I know he was 3HKOing Fujin/Raijin, and they don't have 30K HP!). Of course, I guess the charge time for Summoning might let some extra healers slip in and avoid the 2HKOing.

[Yoshiken]

I'll probably vote on this tomorrow, just noting that Diablos has pretty poor HP and the charge time for the GFs is probably about a turn, maybe slightly more. If we use the PC-only HP averages, Diablos is getting killed before it gets summoned the second time by almost anyone, so unless Squall's fighting a total slug or a -very- weak opponent, it's likely he's not killing anyone with that alone.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Due to the charge times, should I -not- include the GF summons in the damage average?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

The charge times at max compat are pretty negligible, honestly (and maxing compat isn't hard). I wouldn't bother with removing them.

[Dhyerwolf]

Even a 20% charge time adds up. Granted, no idea where I'd see the compat myself. But probably most people will have different views that they can tweak the damage averages how they see fit (Since uh...not really coming up outside of this).

[OblivionKnight]

Randomly:  Max level in FF8 is 100.  That's the level they were taken at in the current stat topic notes

[Yoshiken]

Squall vs Adelbert Steiner (FF9) - Hmm. Looking more carefully now, I think I'd allow Squall 2 castings of Diablos under this setup, thanks to the 3rd ability slot and GFHP+30%. So, yeah. Diablos. (I'd not see Diablos 2HKOing, but close enough that Squall can probably just finish Steiner off with a physical, let alone Darkside.)
Squall vs Alicia (VP2) - ...ugh. This match is hell. I'm just gonna assume that Squall eventually kills via Limit, since this match isn't worth thinking about more than that.
Squall vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp.
Squall vs Tiamat (FF1) - 3HKOs, outspeeds (barely).
Squall vs Lyon (FE8) - Lyon respect? What Lyon respect?

Rinoa vs Adelbert Steiner (FF9) - IIRC, Steiner only halves Water damage, but has enough damage to 2HKO Leviathan, and can 2HKO Rinoa, meaning she's forced to Recov-- wait, he relies on MP, doesn't he? So she stalls to a win. Heh.
Rinoa vs Alicia (VP2) - I... ugh. this is just painful. Both can stall forever. I'm gonna just say that Rinoa heals more, can heal more often and deals more damage when she does attack. Works for a tiebreak.
Rinoa vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp.
Rinoa vs Tiamat (FF1) - Obscene MDef would probably win this for Tiamat past Recover, but I think that lets Rinoa take it. Ugh.
Rinoa vs Lyon (FE8) - Lyon respect? What Lyon respect? (Also, full recovery against an FEer. Ha. Ha. Ha.)

Quistis vs Adelbert Steiner (FF9) - Shiva's down in one hit from Steiner, so that's that. Doubt Quistis can even come close to winning from there.
Quistis vs Alicia (VP2) - Ahh, what a clusterfuck. So, Quistis' only hope here is Doom, since her damage is never going to be enough, although I see Doom taking 255 turns. She can then use Shiva to heal-lock Alicia, although Alicia will get attacks in while it's being summoned. If Quistis is boosting her Vitality, then that's probably lasting a fair while, thanks to Alicia healing more than once every two turns. Then, Quistis herself. Probably takes a long time, but not up to 200+ turns. Yikes. (Yeah, for the record, FF8 Doom is probably nowhere near 255 turns, but most games, and most FFs at that, use 255 as the countdown for those that are supposed to be 'almost immune'. Since that tends to include a) human enemies, and b) major characters, I'm going to take that as standard within the DL.) - Edit: Blah, fine. I'll let Doom hit, I guess.
Quistis vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp.
Quistis vs Tiamat (FF1) - Think the Spirit boosts can bring her MDur up high enough to KO first.
Quistis vs Lyon (FE8) - As above.

Zell vs Adelbert Steiner (FF9) - Tough one. Both have good attack, Steiner has good defences, but Zell can hit MDef as well if need be, and has the Ifrit shield either way. But Steiner can immune Ifrit. Probably clinches it. - Edit: Forgot about Mad Rush. Heh.
Zell vs Alicia (VP2) - Probably OHKOs.
Zell vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp.
Zell vs Tiamat (FF1) - Tiamat has great defence. Shame about the HP.
Zell vs Lyon (FE8) - Lyon respect? What Lyon respect?

Selphie vs Adelbert Steiner (FF9) - I think FFIX equips fail to cover Zombie (is Zombie even a status in IX?), but I think I also allow ID protection to cover Zombie -> Life. So yeah. - Edit: No ID blocker? Hunh.
Selphie vs Alicia (VP2) - Status.
Selphie vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Im-- wait, faster status. Hunh.
Selphie vs Tiamat (FF1) - 100% ID. Yay for bosses without ID immunity!
Selphie vs Lyon (FE8) - 100% ID. Yay for bosses without ID immunity!

Irvine vs Adelbert Steiner (FF9) - So, Steiner immunes Quez, has good defences, and can easily burst past limit. Obviously Irvine's winning this. Clearly.
Irvine vs Alicia (VP2) - Healing. That's all I'm thinking on this one.
Irvine vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp. Wow, she makes things really easy.
Irvine vs Tiamat (FF1) - Strong against Lightning? Has good POIZN damage? Welp.
Irvine vs Lyon (FE8) - Kneejerk. Think Lyon would knock Irvine into limit. And I think that would decide it.

Selphie: 5-0
Rinoa: 4-1 (Would probably be 1-4 without Recover!)
Squall: 4-1
Zell: 4-1
Quistis: 3-2
Irvine: 1-4

Also, for fun...
Selphie beats everyone, hands down. 100% Death attached to an ITE physical spells pain for PCs.
From there, Rinoa probably beats everyone else. Recover. Ugh.
Next, I'm thinking Zell probably beats the other three (yay for insane attack!), then Squall (Quistis' defence boosts are pretty useless against him), then Quistis. Irvine is probably some shade of Middle, despite the GFs, while the others hit Heavy at the worst, with Selphie having the capacity to reach Godlike (just look at Naoto or Tir!) and Rinoa... could probably get Godlike. Recover is -evil-.
So, pretty clean-cut: Selphie > Rinoa > Zell > Squall > Quistis > Irvine (against each other).

And, finally... While I'd not take these for the DL - as much as I hate how much FF8 gets completely raped, these are nowhere near DL-legal to me - they're definitely useful to have for, say, the Dungeon, and I'd definitely like to see some more FF8 use there now. ♥

[Dark Holy Elf]

I only hit like Level 25 in FF8 with my PCs (think the GFs were notably higher, but I forget...) and I maxed compat on everyone's main summon easily, at which point the charge time is indeed negligible (though as Dhyer said, 20% adds up, and that might be around what it is).

[Dhyerwolf]

Squall vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Squall vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)- Diablos' 3rd turn outpaces Steiner's 4th.
Squall vs Geno (SMRPG)
Squall vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- 1.5 PC HP helps Squall here, but not enough
Squall vs Alicia (VP2)
Squall vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Squall vs Feena (G1)
Squall vs Asellus (Saga)- Let's say ID.
Squall vs Fenril (OB)- Fenril is mystery
Squall vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)- Why not.
Squall vs Tiamat (FF1)
Squall vs Eileen (S1)
Squall vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Squall vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Squall vs Lyon (FE8)- Dunno

Rinoa vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Rinoa vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)- Rinoa has average damage with a bit of charge time that Steiner halves. Steiner has shitty ID that only works well against stallers.
Rinoa vs Geno (SMRPG)
Rinoa vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Rinoa vs Alicia (VP2)- Why am I voting Alicia when neither will ever kill? Well, Alicia can at least come close to heal locking. Rinoa...has a killable summon that Alicia resists, and then has her normal physical. And then she has what is likely to be Angelo Cannon...
Rinoa vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Rinoa vs Feena (G1)
Rinoa vs Asellus (Saga)
Rinoa vs Fenril (OB)
Rinoa vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)- Oh man, at least Steiner's shitty ID isn't attached to physical damage (Which...Rinoa really does not like)
Rinoa vs Tiamat (FF1)
Rinoa vs Eileen (S1)- This really depends on how effective that Spirit is, because she needs to not be 2HKOed by Eileen (and now having 75% PC HP means that spirit has to be really good. Voting Eileen anyways because damage immunity+crits still exist)
Rinoa vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Rinoa vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Rinoa vs Lyon (FE8)- And Lyon is again perplexing here. But hell, he runs out of charges, so...okay.

Double the Rinoa? Monster.

Quistis vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Quistis vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)- Depends on Doom now.
Quistis vs Geno (SMRPG)
Quistis vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Hmm, even if Pdef means she avoids an OHKO...what's she going to do?
Quistis vs Alicia (VP2)
Quistis vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Quistis vs Feena (G1)
Quistis vs Asellus (Saga)- Depends on both their status.
Quistis vs Fenril (OB)- I don't know Fenril well enough off the top of my head.
Quistis vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)- Hmm. Quistis eats Ice, Agrias halves Ice, Quistis has some Pdur and questionable status, Agrias has questionable status etc...
Quistis vs Tiamat (FF1)
Quistis vs Eileen (S1)
Quistis vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Quistis vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Quistis vs Lyon (FE8)

Zell vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Zell vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)- Faster, albeit barely
Zell vs Geno (SMRPG)
Zell vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Faster, albeit barely
Zell vs Alicia (VP2)
Zell vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Zell vs Feena (G1)
Zell vs Asellus (Saga)- This depends on debated Saga status.
Zell vs Fenril (OB)
Zell vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Zell vs Tiamat (FF1)
Zell vs Eileen (S1)
Zell vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Zell vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Zell vs Lyon (FE8)

Selphie vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Selphie vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Selphie vs Geno (SMRPG)
Selphie vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Selphie vs Alicia (VP2)
Selphie vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Selphie  vs Feena (G1)
Selphie vs Asellus (Saga)
Selphie vs Fenril (OB)
Selphie vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Selphie vs Tiamat (FF1)- Oh fuck no.
Selphie vs Eileen (S1)
Selphie vs Flay Gunnar (MK)
Selphie vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Selphie vs Lyon (FE8)

Irvine vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Irvine vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Irvine vs Geno (SMRPG)
Irvine vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Irvine vs Alicia (VP2)
Irvine vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Irvine vs Feena (G1)- HP+Thunder walling. Not good for Feena
Irvine vs Asellus (Saga)
Irvine vs Fenril (OB)- Unsure, but whatever
Irvine vs Agrias Oaks (FFT)
Irvine vs Tiamat (FF1)
Irvine vs Eileen (S1)- At least Irvine can still status her!!!
Irvine vs Flay Gunnar (MK)- Why not. Thunder res
Irvine vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)
Irvine vs Lyon (FE8)- Eeeeh. Lyon may not have the ability to avoid a limit.

Squall 6-5
Zell 5-7
Irvine 4-7
Selphie 4-8 (Uh, yeah, that's a lot of ID resistance for PCs. Gets better if Zombie kills enemies and gives you experience and AP. But them seems hmm...unlikely).
Rinoa 2-10 (73% HP is a bad thing. Bad defense doesn't help.)
Quistis 0-8

Lesson: Durability is awesome. Girls suffer, while Irvine, who is meh but now has like 1.15 PC HP, gets better! Or something.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Quistis vs Alicia (VP2) - Ahh, what a clusterfuck. So, Quistis' only hope here is Doom, since her damage is never going to be enough, although I see Doom taking 255 turns. She can then use Shiva to heal-lock Alicia, although Alicia will get attacks in while it's being summoned. If Quistis is boosting her Vitality, then that's probably lasting a fair while, thanks to Alicia healing more than once every two turns. Then, Quistis herself. Probably takes a long time, but not up to 200+ turns. Yikes. (Yeah, for the record, FF8 Doom is probably nowhere near 255 turns, but most games, and most FFs at that, use 255 as the countdown for those that are supposed to be 'almost immune'. Since that tends to include a) human enemies, and b) major characters, I'm going to take that as standard within the DL.)

Zell vs Adelbert Steiner (FF9) - Tough one. Both have good attack, Steiner has good defences, but Zell can hit MDef as well if need be, and has the Ifrit shield either way. But Steiner can immune Ifrit. Probably clinches it.

Just checked the BMG and mathed out Doom's timer rate.
According to the BMG, it takes about ~3 seconds to fill the ATB bar for endgame enemy speed (~35).
Doom takes about 16 seconds to resolve.
~5.2 turns for Doom.

On Zell vs. Steiner... just thinking that Mad Rush's Haste/Protect/Damage boost is probably enough to own Steiner.

Rinoa vs Alicia (VP2)- Why am I voting Alicia when neither will ever kill? Well, Alicia can at least come close to heal locking. Rinoa...has a killable summon that Alicia resists, and then has her normal physical. And then she has what is likely to be Angelo Cannon...

Won't Alicia eventually hit a Soul Crush anyway? Rinoa's Limits are directly determined by Crisis Level. CL3=Invincible (Earliest availability at 20% mHP), CL4=Wishing Star (Earliest availability at 15% mHP), according the BMG.

Quistis vs Alicia (VP2)

Thinking if Quistis twinks for VIT, then stalls, she might be able to get Alicia with the 5-turn ID. Assuming that Alicia doesn't get the ID blocker.

Selphie vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)

At Crisis Level 2 (~27% mHP at earliest), Selphie has a whopping ~17% chance to draw The End on Slots. If Steiner knocks her into this range, then I'd say he's slow enough to give her the time to use it! *is shot for The End hype*

Irvine vs Feena (G1)- HP+Thunder walling. Not good for Feena
Irvine vs Flay Gunnar (MK)- Why not. Thunder res
Irvine vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)

Irvine gets thunder walling hype against Feena and Flay, but Nash gets him?
...what does Nash do again? I must be remembering wrong.

[ThePiggyman]

Irvine vs Feena (G1)- HP+Thunder walling. Not good for Feena
Irvine vs Flay Gunnar (MK)- Why not. Thunder res
Irvine vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC)

Irvine gets thunder walling hype against Feena and Flay, but Nash gets him?
...what does Nash do again? I must be remembering wrong.

Status of some sorts. Likely Stone.

[Dhyerwolf]

Rinoa vs Alicia (VP2)- Why am I voting Alicia when neither will ever kill? Well, Alicia can at least come close to heal locking. Rinoa...has a killable summon that Alicia resists, and then has her normal physical. And then she has what is likely to be Angelo Cannon...

Won't Alicia eventually hit a Soul Crush anyway? Rinoa's Limits are directly determined by Crisis Level. CL3=Invincible (Earliest availability at 20% mHP), CL4=Wishing Star (Earliest availability at 15% mHP), according the BMG.

Alicia can Soul Crush every turn she doesn't heal, should she so wish it. She also has extreme chipping skills and does 31% to average if she doesn't Heal. Rinoa is about 70% Pdur, so I was wrong in even bringing up a limit as something she'll be getting! Which just reinforces that Alicia is at least throwing out a lot more damage/getting notably closer to killing.

[Cmdr_King]

Dhyer:
Unless I've totally lost my mind, Lyon's weapon has infinite durability.  Although, at 75% PCHP, seems like he either OHKOs Rinoa or knocks her into a Limit anyway, though obviously whether said limit is useful under these averages is debatable... and depends on how you feel about what characters can do when they double an FE character.

Shouldn't Selphie's record be 5-9?  You have 9 losses marked up discounting the bit where you bolded both Selphie and Chaz in their match, but I'm guessing this is a typo of a win over Steiner (ie "FFIX hates ID")

[Dhyerwolf]

Right, I guess looking at Lyon 1 (didn't realize there were 2 forms). Which then in turn goes back to how does Rinoa's Mdef work.

Selphie should be 4-7, because who wants to think about Selphie's durability here versus DoS Tiamat.I guess Selphie doesn't run into elemental resistance with summoning...or something.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Squall vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - ID.
Squall vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - Diablos x2 is enough for me.
Squall vs Geno (SMRPG) - ID.
Squall vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Claude's attack + Darkside gives Squall a Limit, I believe. Probably good enough. EDIT: Gravija and summon meatshield hijinks.
Squall vs Alicia (VP2) - Heal-locks until she chips him into Limit range?
Squall vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp, I guess. I wonder if Imp would lock down the GF command? Probably.
Squall vs Feena (G1) - Sure, magical blitz. Though if she fails to get all his HP, she's screwed.
Squall vs Asellus (Saga) - 2HKOs with Gravija. Mystical Transformation means she -might 2HKO him, but his HP is really good.
Squall vs Fenril (OB) - No chipping, so I think Fenril knocks 9999HP Squall into Limit range first-turn. (If by some miracle, Squall goes first here, he opts for Darkside to get his CL higher and deal some decent damage to Fenril). Limit should finish the job.
Squall vs Agrias Oaks (FFT) - Gravija~
Squall vs Tiamat (FF1) - Way to not be fully status-immune, Tiamat.
Squall vs Eileen (S1) - Gravijas through Copper Flesh. Not OHKOed. Haha, just kidding.
Squall vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) - Status'd, it seems.
Squall vs Lyon (FE8) - Not OHKO'd. Double-Darkside w/ Trigger critical.

Rinoa vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - ID.
Rinoa vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - If he doesn't OHKO, he'll eventually get the ID.
Rinoa vs Geno (SMRPG) - ID.
Rinoa vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Thinking he just barely misses the OHKO. Without healing, Rinoa just opts to Recover spam until she doubles (yay randomized ATB) and wear him down with her physical to avoid being overtaken by summoning Leviathan. EDIT: Or she WOULD, if she wasn't clearly OHKOd.
Rinoa vs Alicia (VP2) - Eventual Soul Crush takes it.
Rinoa vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp.
Rinoa vs Feena (G1) - Defensive stats are somewhat subtractive in FF8. A generous kneejerk is that she survives Feena's initial spam (kind of doubting it, but that's really high comparative Spr and that increases her relative magical durability a lot compared to the others) and then Recover-spams her way to victory once Feena's magic is gone. Although... Feena status might be a problem. Will take a look at this one again.
DamageA = AttackerMag + Power
DamageB = DamageA * (265 - TargetSpr) / 4
FinalDamage = DamageB * Power / 256

Rinoa vs Asellus (Saga) - Eventual ID.
Rinoa vs Fenril (OB) - OHKO.
Rinoa vs Agrias Oaks (FFT) - Eventual ID.
Rinoa vs Tiamat (FF1) - Recover spam!
Rinoa vs Eileen (S1) - dear god this eventually comes down to Eileen critical, doesn't it?
Rinoa vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) - Stone, I guess.
Rinoa vs Lyon (FE8) - If I gave her enough Spr credit to survive Feena, she can survive Lyon.

Quistis vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - ID.
Quistis vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - Twink for VIT, Doom + turtling, I guess.
Quistis vs Geno (SMRPG)
Quistis vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Twink for VIT, Doom+turtle, I guess?
Quistis vs Alicia (VP2) - That strategy -definitely- works here with no ID blocker.
Quistis vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Faster + Imp.
Quistis vs Feena (G1) - Yeah, even Spr twinking and turtling isn't going to stop the Time Gate lolz.
Quistis vs Asellus (Saga) - Better ID should have no trouble getting around the VIT-twink+turtle strategy.
Quistis vs Fenril (OB) - OHKOs
Quistis vs Agrias Oaks (FFT) - I -think- her ID is better, plus she at least gets to deal damage out of the strategy.
Quistis vs Tiamat (FF1) - Probably wrong here, I just like seeing Tiamat lose to ID.
Quistis vs Eileen (S1) - Eileen is probably the better turtle, too.
Quistis vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) - Stone, I guess.
Quistis vs Lyon (FE8) - Spr-twinking+turtle and hope that Lyon's speed sinks him against Doom's timer.

Zell vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - ID.
Zell vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - Think Mad Rush tilts the durability and speed enough in his favor for this.
Zell vs Geno (SMRPG) - ID.
Zell vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Mad Rush, but only barely.
Zell vs Alicia (VP2) - Mad Rush and lols.
Zell vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp.
Zell vs Feena (G1) - Crappy magical resistance. Status works, too.
Zell vs Asellus (Saga) - Glass Shield spam. If he starts to summon Ifrit, she Transforms and wins the normal way.
Zell vs Fenril (OB) - Doesn't OHKO, but then I'm not sure Zell 2HKOs Fenril.
Zell vs Agrias Oaks (FFT) - Mad Rush probably OHKOs.
Zell vs Tiamat (FF1) - Closer match, but again Mad Rush.
Zell vs Eileen (S1) - Doesn't deal with the magic well. Mad Rush probably doesn't do well against Copper Flesh.
Zell vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) - Faster+status!
Zell vs Lyon (FE8) - Mad Rush is horrible slaughter.

Selphie vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - 100% ID! Chaz doesn't block ID, does he?
Selphie vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - ID
Selphie vs Geno (SMRPG) - Faster. Geno Boost probably wins this match even if she blocks ID.
Selphie vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - ID, I think.
Selphie vs Alicia (VP2) - ID, unless blocker. Silence probably also works.
Selphie vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Fast enough to ID!
Selphie  vs Feena (G1) - Kneejerk that Feena's faster. May not be able to status her, but Time Gate smash is probably enough.
Selphie vs Asellus (Saga) - Blocks ID, doesn't care about Silence. That's enough.
Selphie vs Fenril (OB) - Speed off. ID or OHKO. I'm just guessing Selphie's faster, I don't remember.
Selphie vs Agrias Oaks (FFT) - ID, Zombie, Silence. Something gets her.
Selphie vs Tiamat (FF1) - Oh Tiamat, that ID susceptibility is too funny.
Selphie vs Eileen (S1) - 100% ID still.
Selphie vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) - Selphie loses this speed off.
Selphie vs Lyon (FE8) - ID ID ID.

Irvine vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - ID.
Irvine vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - Has to work to avoid a Limit, but Irvine's options aren't very scary here.
Irvine vs Geno (SMRPG) - ID.
Irvine vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Too much damage control for Irvine to get that Limit.
Irvine vs Alicia (VP2) - This is close... she -might- be able to Soul Crush past his Limit range, but if he statuses her, it's over.
Irvine vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Imp.
Irvine vs Feena (G1) - Thunder walling~
Irvine vs Asellus (Saga) - Mystical Transform is probably enough? Eh, ID works either way.
Irvine vs Fenril (OB) - Knocks him right into Limit range.
Irvine vs Agrias Oaks (FFT) - Durability and speed are probably enough.
Irvine vs Tiamat (FF1) - Same.
Irvine vs Eileen (S1) - He can't hurt her. She chips slightly around the Limit.
Irvine vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) - Status-y death.
Irvine vs Lyon (FE8) - Right into Limit range!

Selphie - 10/14
Squall - 8/14
Zell - 6/14
Irvine - 6/14
Quistis - 5/14
Rinoa - 3/14

[Dhyerwolf]

Djinn, how is Claude barely missing on OHKO on Rinoa? I'm also really now sure how well Darkside can be used to bring down HP for a limit, since it's also eating a turn too. Gravija arguably shouldn't work through Copper Flesh, since that doesn't let HP manipulation occur.

[ThePiggyman]

There's one fight I wanna touch on.

Rinoa vs. Eileen

Eileen only has 4 charges of EQ, and it only 2HKOs. Rinoa can use Recover pretty constantly, and with Leviathan, she's got access to Spr+20 AND 40%, so she can definitely take those on. And Recover, as I understand it, is free near-full healing. Rinoa can definitely outstall her out of her Earthquakes, which leaves Eileen's damage pretty poor. At that point, she can -sloooooowly- kill Eileen. Just seems like Rinoa's fight here. Or am I missing something?