Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 19

[Nephrite]

"Hmph. Let's see what you can manage."

Team Taishyr vs. Floor 8
Team Sage vs. Floor 4
Team Monkey and Bardiche vs. Floor 3


Team Taishyr's Matches

Floor 9: Super Smash Melee

[color]red[/color] "Well, well, well... you've finally made it here... let us see what happens when we revisit one of the floors you passed before, hm? I am merciful... I will give you another bonus, however. Let us see what you can manage..."[/color]


Team Sage's Matches

Floor 5a: Repeat? (After Midgame)

"Hahah! I have a special treat for you today..."

Battle #21: Guy, Guy, Guy and Guile

Guy: You guys are dead! I didn't lay down to the Sinistrals and I won't lay down to you!
Guy: Um... I guess if we have to do this, let's go.
Guy: Damnit, Luke! You're so stupid!

Battle #22: Kary, Karin, Killey and P3 Ken

Kyra: The power of Espers flow through me...
Kary: HUHUHU FIRE FIEND
Karin: A female soldier? In MY German army?

Battle #23: Alen, Alena and Alex

Alex: With the power of the Dragonmasters at my side, you're all toast!
Alena: For my kingdom!
Alen: Let us do battle.

Battle #24: Sara, Serra, Sarah, Sarah and Saradin

Sara: Light Dragons... protect me!
Serra: BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH I'M A BITCH
Sarah: If master Luc wishes it...
Sarah: SONIIIIC... BOOM!

Boss Battle #5: Nina1, Nina2, Nina3, Nina4 and Nina5

Nina: Let's go, for Windia!
Nina: No, it's Wyndia!
Nina: No no, I'm sure it's Windia...
Nina: ...Either way, we'll get you!



Team Bardiche's Matches

Floor 4b: Past and Future

"Let's see how you fare when you have to trample through the annals of time!"


Battle #16: Lufia, Pichu, Child Rydia, Lucia (S2) and Valvalis (FF4o/a)

Lufia: I will... fight!
Lucia: The Karaya will never lose!

Battle #17: Rikku, Aeonless Yuna and Suikoden 5 Georg

Rikku: Yeah! Let's go!
Yuna: I will fight if I must.
Georg: Well, this is interesting...

Battle #18: Fort Zeakden Algus, Balk, Undead Dark Knight Argath and Undead Balk

Algus: Uh...
Argath: Don't mess up this time...
Balk: Heh! This is truly amazing.
Balk: I truly am above 'death'...

Battle #19: Gun Mage Yuna, Thief Rikku and S2 Georg

Rikku: Let's go, Yunie!
Yuna: All right, Rikku!
Georg: Haha! I see you still have spunk.

Boss Battle: Lufia 2 Erim, Lucia (S3) Raichu, Barbariccia and Rydia

Erim: I... am sorry.
Rydia: Mother, give me strength...!


Team Monkeyfinger's Matches

4c: Status Critical

"Hmm... I think things have been too boring lately. Let's see what happens when you have a critical

failure."

*For this floor, all moves that have any capacity to critical hit will do so.

Battle #16: Jude and Raquel

Jude: I fight, along with my ARM!
Raquel: I AM DYING OF CANCER I GUESS   

Battle #17: Kyogre and Lugia

Kyogre: It's pronounced 'Kai ogre,' not 'Kyoh gray.' I know, I know.
Lugia: I think I can talk... can't I?

Battle #18: Ness and Poo

Ness: Rockin'!
Poo: Starstorm!

Battle #19: Caellech, Lloyd and Linus

Caellech: You fools... I will wipe the floor with you.
Lloyd: Heh heh, brother, let's go!
Linus: Yes!

Boss Battle #4: Alena, Brey (Borya), Maya and Meena

Alena: Let's wipe the floor with them!
Brey: As you say, my lady.


---------------------------------------------


Team Sage | Demi, Purim, Princess Toadstool, Brey, Rand (Firefly)
[Floor 5a: Repeat?]
Team Sage vs. Guy(L2), Guy(FE7), Guy (ToTA) and Guile
Team Sage vs. Kary, Killey (S5), Karin and Ken (P3)
Team Sage vs. Alen, Alena and Alex
Team Sage vs. Sara (BoF1), Serra, PC Sarah (S3), Sarah (ShF1) and Saradin
*Full Heal
Team Sage vs. Nina1, Nina2, Nina3, Nina4 and Nina5

Team Taishyr | Kyogre, Maya (MT), Garnet, Kyra, FFT Priest
[Floor 9: Super Smash Melee]
*Garnet has been granted Auto-Haste
*Maya has been given Sama Recarm on Maia Custom, Maha Aquadyne on Maihime Amano, and Makarakarn on Artemis.
*Kyogre has been granted Aqua Tail
*Priest has been granted Robe of Lords, Setiemson and Equip-Change.
------------
*These enemies reduce damage to .10x
Team Taishyr vs. Ursula, Peter, Frog and Shiro
*One enemy gets to take any action each time a PC takes an action.
Team Taishyr vs. Valeria, Robo, Pikachu and Wigglytuff
*Each of these enemies must be killed three times. They resurrect fully restored when they are killed.
Team Taishyr vs. Mario, Toadstool and Bowser
*All actions against these enemies can be countered, including debuffs. These enemies get one final counter upon

death. These counters do 3x damage.
Team Taishyr vs. Ike, Roy, Lyn and Marth
*These PCs cannot be hit with kind of status and have their HP increased by 2x
Team Taishyr vs. Ness, Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur and Lucario

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen, Lucian (MT) & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[4b: Past and Future]
Team Bardiche vs. Lufia, Lucia (S2) Child Rydia, Pichu and Valvalis (FF2/4 or FF4a)
Team Bardiche vs. Rikku (DL Legal), Aeonless Yuna and S5 Georg
Team Bardiche vs. Fort Zeakden Algus, Balk, Undead Dark Knight Argath and Undead Balk
Team Bardiche vs. Gun Mage Yuna, Thief Rikku and S2 Georg
Team Bardiche vs. Lufia 2 Erim, Lucia (S3), Raichu, Barbariccia (FF4 DS) and Rydia

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[4c: Status Critical]
*For this floor, all moves that have any capacity to critical hit will do so.
Team Monkey vs. Jude and Raquel
Team Monkey vs. Kyogre and Lugia (FRLG forms)
Team Monkey vs. Ness and Poo
Team Monkey vs. Caellech, Lloyd (FE7) and Linus (FE7) (Cog of Destiny forms for Lloyd and Linus)
*Full Heal
Team Monkey vs. Alena, Borya (Brey), Maya (Mara) and Meena (Nara)


Multitarget - One person on the team's actions all become Multitargetted. However, the damage of regular attacks, the healing of all spells that restore HP or MP, the status rates of status spells or attacks and the effect of buffs or debuffs (rounded down to the nearest half point in the case of (Pokemon) is reduced to 50% of the original base chance. (For example, Deadly Fingertips has a max 50% chance of hitting all targets.) This applies even if there is only one opponent left.

Firefly: One member of your team becomes the target of all Single target attacks. This effect will override any elemental, status protection or resistance (Reflect, etc. also do not work). The target of this effect may not have damage to them reduced in any way; in addition, revival effects take effect on the character with this sealstone after the current fight is completed. This effect may not be used on Worker 8 or Jane.

[Clear Tranquil]

Bard's horribly screwed over by fast Thief Rikku's 100% Stop (barring leniency with status blockers) or Berserk I think (fighters are stopped/healers are berserked) unless I'm seriously missing something.

Edit: nevermindrikkugun*mage*yunanotgunner!?

Stone Breath(32MP): 100% Petrify, MT. 1.25CT.
-Mighty Guard(32MP): Protect+Shell, MT. 1.2CT.
-Bad Breath(64MP): 100% Poison+Silence+Blind+Slow+Sleep+Berserk/Confuse, MT. 1.2CT.

Good god Neph ;o

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I have to note that Gunner Mage status has a -1.2 turns charge time- (could just be a 20% of a turn charge time instead and I'm misreading it, but 20% charge time is more than enough to make that slower than -the whole fucking team-). -That- is also running off average speed -before- the charge time. Thief Rikku's Stop isn't helping much of anything unless it's MT (and hey look Shiho has Cure Condition to heal it and hey look Lucian also OHKOs Gunner Yuna and is faster than Gun Mage's spells!), and Eileen+Deis are both faster than Thief Rikku (let alone gun mage Yuna) from glancing at the stat topic assuming FFX-2 speed is linear and works exactly as numerically stated, and Eileen+Deis2 = lol MT 2HKO to average, and this is not a magically durable fight. S2 Georg is also pretty trashy to boot. So yeah, I'd say you're missing something.

[Clear Tranquil]

Well Lucian, Shiho and Eiko are average but if Deis and Eileen are faster that's ok then! I knew they were fater than Gunmage but wasn't sure about Thief Rikku~

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Well, as I said, it wouldn't be relevant anyway unless the Stop is full MT: that's a frail little bunch and you have Shiho and possibly Eiko healing -that- status. Disabling one person isn't going to do much when there are about -three- characters who give the enemy group headaches and they need to disable at least two of them to not die. And, as I mentioned, Gun Mage is slow in practice. For her to get a turn there, Rikku Stop needs to kill the -entire party- at once.

[Bardiche]

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen, Lucian (MT) & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[4b: Past and Future]
Team Bardiche vs. Lufia, Lucia (S2) Child Rydia, Pichu and Valvalis (FF2/4 or FF4a) - Deis opens with MT pain. Voice of Earth Eileen drops Pichu. Shiho Might Reinforces, Eiko heals, Lucian drops Lufia, Rydia, Lucia. Valvalis can't do shit and will be kill by Deis.
Team Bardiche vs. Rikku (DL Legal), Aeonless Yuna and S5 Georg - Aeonless Yuna was honestly more threatening on the MT floor. Rikku's not doing anything, Deis2 and Eileen both outspeed Georg. I have two revivers if anything does go awry, and only Georg is able to kill: Yuna'll be too busy reviving, I wager, unless she wants to go for a SNEAKATTACK to get me into the next fight harmed. Honestly not an awful idea, but...
Team Bardiche vs. Fort Zeakden Algus, Balk, Undead Dark Knight Argath and Undead Balk - This team just isn't dropping me. If someone remained dead last fight, Eileen has a ridiculous amount of Copper Flesh charges I think at this point. Also, MT pain, it is brought.
Team Bardiche vs. Gun Mage Yuna, Thief Rikku and S2 Georg - Okay, let's see. Gun Mage Yuna is definitely slower than everyone. Thief Rikku's got First Strike, so she can Stop, Berserk or do about 90% MP draining damage. Fffffffuuuuuuuu-- Luckily Deis can siphon MP back and Shiho is limitless. I'm not quite sure yet how to interpret this.

Suppose Rikku Stops someone, who would she stop? Deis? If she stops Deis, it just means Eileen is casting Earthquake, Shiho is Might Reinforcing Lucian and Lucian busts out the kill on both Rikku and Yuna. Eiko casts Protect so no one dies from S2 Georg and then Lucian finishes the job.

Suppose Rikku Stops Lucian, Snow's scenario plays out. Rikku can't afford stopping anyone else, because Lucian + anyone = game over dungeon!

So suppose Rikku MP busts someone. Still no dice because she can only stop one, not all three of the legibile candidates for "add damage to Lucian's attack".

Now if she Berserks someone... still no dice. If she hits Lucian with it, both Shiho and Eiko are equal speed, and Shiho has Normalise. Since she hit Lucian with it, it doesn't matter anyway because EQ+Deis2.

Okay, I guess this was easier to interpret than I thought! ... yeah, I'm not really taking Georg into account. His crit rate is 40%, so definitely not turn 1 to me. So his half-kill point damage isn't scaring me much at all since no one falls into that durability liability. If Rikku and Georg try to collaborate to get the drop on someone, I don't think it'd succeed thanks to copper flesh existing and Eileen probably outspeeding Georg.
Team Bardiche vs. Lufia 2 Erim, Lucia (S3), Raichu, Barbariccia (FF4 DS) and Rydia - Rydia is still slow as all get out. Barbariccia is the problem here mostly. Erim and LuciaS3 don't really scare, nor does Raichu. Deis and Eileen start off and do their thing, dropping Raichu at least, and arguably Lucia. My respect for Rydia MDef and Lufia 2 Erim durability keeps them afloat... but Erim's not killing anyone pretty much. Lucian still outspeeds Rydia, Barbariccia doesn't OHKO anyone (well, maybe Shiho), Eiko and Lucian finish the job Eileen and Deis2 started.

Unless I'm overlooking problems, I think this floor isn't much of a problem. Thief Rikku fight made me go for a moment, but it's ultimately manageable.

[Taishyr]

I'll get around to arguing my team later, though it's possible the last fight (or any of the others! This floor is -awesome-) still reams me; haven't actually looked at it enough to think it through (though Blind/Berserk on Lucario would probably make at least his threat a fair bit easier to handle).

As reference, however? I saw my first option, then heard the second option was "roll Hatbot and see where you go".

I just couldn't resist temptation.

Maya ID spam/Garnet drops a MT nuke, clean up carefully/Buff up and outslug/Kyra Teleles and Garnet and-or Maya defense buff, kill them slowly and carefully/ugly fight is ugly, is my baseline kneejerk.

[Monkeyfinger]

Tai dies to the SMRPG crew. Toadstool MT silences everyone but Maya who dies to Bowser and Mario physicalling her, and that's that. Priest might be able to block silence but there's nothing meaningful she can do.

I think Sage loses to his boss fight. With 3 attempts at ID per turn and a miss, Nina5 kills both Rand and Toadstool as the first action in the fight. That means no MT status whoring to stop, say, Nina1 from holding Purim and 2 and 3 from ganging up on Demi with their lightning spells. Any offense Sage musters gets wiped clean by Nina4, and even though Demi will get a barrier off she and Brey can't hold this team together when Demi's badly hurt. Demi had revival, right? But she can't bring back Rand and Nina5 just keeps killing anyone who gets revived.

Bard's boss fight is a mess but tentative pass for him. Resourcelss healing gets him there in full shape, and the lack of speed and durability on the enemy side gets a lot of them killed before they can act. Barbariccia wastes a turn activating spin and by the time she's doing stuff, it's all down to her and Erim. Esuna, normalize, and heal probably let bard grind it out.

I pass. Mew just murders people with crit spells and tanks attacks from survivors. Both EB guys are dangerous but Mew takes out Poo and the rest of my team has the offense to take out slow ass Ness before he goes (Rosa can probably status him out too.) The crit immune FE bosses can take a hit from Mew, but a followup from Jessica puts one down, and the survivors don't have enough offense to be dangerous. Alena cleans Mew's clock in the boss fight, but not before he splatters Brey and Lucian does the same to Nara and Rosa statuses Mara. Badass as she is in this format, Alena can't solo the survivors.

[Taishyr]

Toadstool can't just be Berserked?

EDIT: Yeah, she can't block the status, so unless I'm missing something... Toadstool's Magic Defense is not bad (above average) but Berserk should still land turn 1, which means it's Mario/Bowser with 3x Reraise for a while against a team of buff/debuff whores and I can't see that going well for them.

[dude789]

Tai fails. Looking at the last fight, Garnet goes first but can't really do anything to the status immune enemy team. Charizard goes next and OHKOs Maya with slash. Due to the weird way pokemon criticals work there is nothing Garnet can do to stop this. This means that Maya can't put up Makarakarn and Ness gets off Flash which messes up the team. If Garnet tries to reflect someone than the other three pokemon just gang up on them and kill them.

Sage falls as well. The nina fight is still brutal even with the full heal before especially since the most important members of his team hover around average speed. They just get too many turns to cripple his team before he can respond. It shows how much harder the dungeon has gotten since Sage's team which got to floor 9 before and is arguably stronger now is struggling so much on floor 5.

Monkey makes it I think. Although it's very close since I not entirely sure that Mew OHKOs Poo who would then ruin the team with Brainshock.

Bardiche passes as well. His team is pretty good at blitzing and that should get him through most of the fights without too much trouble.

[ThePiggyman]

Oh, wow. Neph took the floor I died on and made it... even more... insanely difficult. Sorry Tai, your team was beast, but it fails here. The whole status immunity thing for an entire team is awfully brutal, and throw in the fact that their HP's all been doubled? INCLUDING NESS'? A quick blitz seems out of the question, and what most teams usually do then is throw up some status, which... won't be happening. Trying for a buff game is option three, but the Pokemons have their own buffs to counter any of those shenanigans with, and let's not forget Ness' Flash. -Monstrous- fight.

Initially going to say Sage fails here. That Nina fight isn't any less scary than it was when I first saw it. Pretty much what dude said; the Nina's speed means they can get too many turns to debilitate his team.

EDIT: Monkey and Bard pass.

[Random Consonant]

Team Sage | Demi, Purim, Princess Toadstool, Brey, Rand (Firefly)
[Floor 5a: Repeat?]
Team Sage vs. Guy(L2), Guy(FE7), Guy (ToTA) and Guile
Team Sage vs. Kary, Killey (S5), Karin and Ken (P3)
Team Sage vs. Alen, Alena and Alex
Team Sage vs. Sara (BoF1), Serra, PC Sarah (S3), Sarah (ShF1) and Saradin
*Full Heal
Team Sage vs. Nina1, Nina2, Nina3, Nina4 and Nina5 - later

Team Taishyr | Kyogre, Maya (MT), Garnet, Kyra, FFT Priest
[Floor 9: Super Smash Melee]
*Garnet has been granted Auto-Haste
*Maya has been given Sama Recarm on Maia Custom, Maha Aquadyne on Maihime Amano, and Makarakarn on Artemis.
*Kyogre has been granted Aqua Tail
*Priest has been granted Robe of Lords, Setiemson and Equip-Change.
------------
*These enemies reduce damage to .10x
Team Taishyr vs. Ursula, Peter, Frog and Shiro
*One enemy gets to take any action each time a PC takes an action.
Team Taishyr vs. Valeria, Robo, Pikachu and Wigglytuff
*Each of these enemies must be killed three times. They resurrect fully restored when they are killed.
Team Taishyr vs. Mario, Toadstool and Bowser
*All actions against these enemies can be countered, including debuffs. These enemies get one final counter upon death. These counters do 3x damage.
Team Taishyr vs. Ike, Roy, Lyn and Marth
*These PCs cannot be hit with kind of status and have their HP increased by 2x
Team Taishyr vs. Ness, Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur and Lucario - The team is bound to falter on one of these fights.  Awesome run, though.

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen, Lucian (MT) & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[4b: Past and Future]
Team Bardiche vs. Lufia, Lucia (S2) Child Rydia, Pichu and Valvalis (FF2/4 or FF4a) - Yeah, this turns into the non-TH spinning wonder alone against a team quickly.
Team Bardiche vs. Rikku (DL Legal), Aeonless Yuna and S5 Georg - Yep.  Yuna evade makes Lucian emo but the team's got enough of the right kind of offense to kill that bitch.
Team Bardiche vs. Fort Zeakden Algus, Balk, Undead Dark Knight Argath and Undead Balk - Zmobie Algus has reflect and extremely low faith so it's not quite as simple as Bard's making it out to be.  However, FFT Reflect is lol (doesn't reflect stuff back at the caster).  The others are perfectly bait, though.
Team Bardiche vs. Gun Mage Yuna, Thief Rikku and S2 Georg - OH NOES THIEF RIKKU WE ARE DOOMED.  Except see Bard and Snow.  She can't do anything meaningful with her turn and the enemies are put down in short order.
Team Bardiche vs. Lufia 2 Erim, Lucia (S3), Raichu, Barbariccia (FF4 DS) and Rydia - Again, this degenerates into the non-TH spinning wonder alone against a team quickly.

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[4c: Status Critical]
*For this floor, all moves that have any capacity to critical hit will do so.
Team Monkey vs. Jude and Raquel
Team Monkey vs. Kyogre and Lugia (FRLG forms) - later
Team Monkey vs. Ness and Poo
Team Monkey vs. Caellech, Lloyd (FE7) and Linus (FE7) (Cog of Destiny forms for Lloyd and Linus)
*Full Heal
Team Monkey vs. Alena, Borya (Brey), Maya (Mara) and Meena (Nara) - Floor isn't a problem.

[Taishyr]

Yeah, I'm hardly complaining - pretty damn sure I can't get past that final fight, which is a beast. Pretty sure I can get -to- it, but beating it's a no go.

[SageAcrin]

I think Sage loses to his boss fight. With 3 attempts at ID per turn and a miss, Nina5 kills both Rand and Toadstool as the first action in the fight. That means no MT status whoring to stop, say, Nina1 from holding Purim and 2 and 3 from ganging up on Demi with their lightning spells. Any offense Sage musters gets wiped clean by Nina4, and even though Demi will get a barrier off she and Brey can't hold this team together when Demi's badly hurt. Demi had revival, right? But she can't bring back Rand and Nina5 just keeps killing anyone who gets revived.

Demi's Medica Power heals status as well as revive and is MT. *cough* But assuming Hold is seen as resetting turn accumulated clockticks of time here instead of just stalling you at the point, which...I'm don't think it works that way in-game if you heal it on the same turn, actually?...

The problem with Nina IDing people constantly is that it assumes she always hits with it-Purim and Princess both getting so much as one turn turns the fight completely around. It's three shots of 50%. Erm, I don't know about that. Hold lasts one to five turns and is completely unstable, so it only works for the basic blitz idea.

Nina 5 requires seeing Death spam as working against multiple targets with full AP, which due to movement is not actually all that possible in-game(Not to get three shots of.). Results may vary on how much that matters.

Nina 5's 93 to a 76 average and is not actually that much faster than usual in any way; Princess has a solid argument to go first. That's more what I hinge on here, and why I didn't even think of this angle when I chose the floor; I really don't buy BoF5's narrow-ass curve as having Nina 5 be fast enough to go first, honestly.

Most of the rest I'm not sure I buy, but considering IIRC Death wasn't that high range, I might buy that. I don't really know. Princess goes first to me, though, before Nina 5.

*Headshakes.* Does it say something that my alternatives were probably worse? Yeah, the dungeon's gotten a lot nastier. It's also nasty in a much different way, so.

(Also the old team got to floor 10.)

I haven't even analyzed the rest yet, so this isn't a vote or anything. >_>

Ehhh, may as well vote for that matter.

Team Sage...I analyzed this when I looked at it. I think I messed up and forgot I have inordinately higher SMRPG speed respect than most, though. Fuck. Oh well. I still say that Nina getting three shots of Death off against two people isn't really actually happening that reliably in-game due to any movement eating AP unless I'm going crazy here(It's exactly 90 AP cost. Any movement at all would prevent it.). As a duelling thing, it's one thing, but...eh. I still say I pass, but eh.

...

...Oh and if you see 66% as necessary, the odds of two 50% Deaths out of three is just exactly that...

Rand having an occasional Guts chance actually does knock the odds down below 66%. Bwahahahaha. It's true! Although how that conflicts with the revival elements of the Sealstone is up to you! Man it's good that Neph changed that thing.

Team Tai falls. Gave my opinion to Neph at the time that I don't think 90% of teams could get past the floor, and the remaining 10% were horribly unlikely to get that far. Tai's team is actually one of the best builds for it that could actually see it and I still don't think it manages it. I dunno, maybe I just put it badly at the time.

Team Bard...ehhh, abstain for the same reason that I didn't take that floor to start with. I don't know enough of it and am lazy. <_<

Team Monkey...

Doing the math, Mew OHKOs Poo, barely. Also manages a Thunder KO against Kyogre before he goes, probably. (Thunder is Swift-accurate against Kyogre, mind.) Both of those are within like 5% margins, it's hilarious and if either failed he'd be competely dead. If you like say didn't respect Ness' ridiculous HP impact on the average or something, I dunno. Team Monkey passes though.

[Dhyerwolf]

Tai falls. Double HP Ness is too ridiculous with that support.

[dude789]

In regards to team sage, the SMRPG average is even tighter than the BoF5 one so Toadtstool being faster is a huge stretch for me. Also due to the Evil Robe, if Toadstool or  Puriim try to throw out status, they're getting it thrown back at them.

[Monkeyfinger]

If medic power is MT and cures status, I change my vote to a pass for Sage. Between the possibility of Nina's IDchain only killing Rand and that, I think he has a big enough chance, though it's still really hard to analyze.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Medic Power is definitely MT. Dunno if it cures -status-, though.

[Dhyerwolf]

Nina 5's 93 to a 76 average and is not actually that much faster than usual in any way; Princess has a solid argument to go first. That's more what I hinge on here, and why I didn't even think of this angle when I chose the floor; I really don't buy BoF5's narrow-ass curve as having Nina 5 be fast enough to go first, honestly.

I can't imagine that Nina clear 1st of 3 speed would be slower than Toadstool marginally above average speed, which is only 2nd of 5.

[ThePiggyman]

Just chiming in, after checking up speeds, Ninas 1,3 and 4 all get a turn before the rest of Sage's team. The only person I suspect is faster than Nina5 is Brey. Although Sage's entire team is faster than Nina2.

Turn order looks like this, based on the numbers;

Nina4 (1.44x) > Nina3 (1.29x > Nina1 (1.28x) > Brey (1.24x) > Nina5 (1.22x) > Demi (1.14x) > Toadstool (1.09x) > Nina2 (0.95x)

Lucian, Shiho and Purim speed respect varies, so place them where ever you find appropriate based on your views (I just take them as average). Although you would need to respect their speed pretty highly just to get them near Nina5. ;o

[Clear Tranquil]

Yeah ... thanks Bard and Snow. Obviously the fight's a lot easier than I thought. I think I was confused because I vaguely recall someone commenting on the scariness of Thief Rikku in chat before >_>

Bard you covered a lot that I discovered while rechecking FFX-2 while offline at the weekend such as First Strike, thanks (I was only checking menus though and didn't realise the MP draining actually registered on the offence scale!) I still have a few queries though -

*In addition to First Strike Thief Rikku also has Inititiave (raises team's chance of a pre-emptive attack) which isn't mentioned in the stat topic for obvious reasons - does this change anything?

* For Neph what legalities are there concerning garment grids/accessories/etc for the FFX-2 cast in the dungeon?

As far as I know unless specified enemies in the dungeon are not restricted to DL legal and basically can use and do whatever they want within reason.

For FFX-2 outwith reason for me personally would be for example -

*Break damage limit/etc
*Full status immunity
*Full elemental absorb/immunity etc
*No MP cost
*Multi auto abilities (is this even feasible <_<)

Within reason -

*SoS abilities
*Auto abilities
*Limited status protection
*Limited elemental abilities
*Generic stat boosters

Specifically, barring stuff I haven't had time to think about yet I'm thinking of Haste Bangle (SoS Haste), Speed Bracer (Auto Haste, cast Hastega), Sprint Shoes (First Strike, cast Haste), Highwind Roads (SoS Haste), someothergarmentgrid (boosts AGL) ...

Ultimately I don't think it matters, the FFX2 cast probably isn't winning regardless but if Rikku can get an extra turn to bust MP ...

[SnowFire]

Weirdly enough, I think the fight most troubling for Bardiche is the FFT one - as noted, Reflect Mail makes an MT magic blitz somewhat more problematic (I would consider the possibility of full MT magic like Suikoden Earthquakes as getting all Reflected disastrously), and both Balks are speedy.  Arm Aiming Lucian (arguably, Leg Aim too) basically nukes Bardiche's MT offense, since Eiko & Lucian are both average speed and the way FF9 works I'd say the Esuna comes too late.  The real problem is that I don't think the Alguses get too far with their damage / break game to actually make a difference, so at worst Argath nukes one person's MP for the coming battles.  Infinite resource Shiho probably saves the day anyway, though; only 2 out of 3 of Deis2 / Eiko / Eileen probably need their MP for nukage in the last fight when combined with Lucian beats.

Team Monkey...  boss battle's the only one worth considering.  Is Floor 4 Mew really faster than Alena?  Alena is psychotically above the curve in both DQ4o and the remake such that she basically always goes first.  Monkey's writeup also seems to imply that Rosa is faster than Maya...  Maya/Mara is average to above-average speed, and Rosa is slow, so not sure where that's coming from.  If Mew is in fact faster than sure Monkey probably wins. 

Assuming for a moment that Mew's slower...  Turn order: Alena->(Mew?)->Jessica->Borya/Brey -> Maya/Mara-> Lucian & Shiho -> [Meena (remake)] -> Rosa -> [Nara (orig)]
Note that according to the stat topic, Nara got a bit of a speed boost when becoming Meena, so she probably wants her Meena form.

Alena splatters Mew.  Jess...  can Accelerate (would help with Lucian & Shiho beating out the speedbreak against Mara, to me at least), OHKO Nara, unleash MT damage..  hmm.  Since Brey damage + Mara crit physical of DOOM probably kills someone, let's go with Accelerate...  which actually doesn't help as much as expected as Brey also has Accelerate in the remake.  Even DQ4o Brey has Chaos/Fuddle, which has a reasonably decent hit rate...  though apparently Resist Charm is Chapter 3, so Chaosing Lucian - the logical choice - doesn't work if you allow that.  Let's say Borya goes for his own Accelerate.  Maya burns someone (Lucian?)...  Lucian kills Nara (which is a total waste of his offense but kinda necessary), Shiho...  Heals whoever Maya hit.  Rosa then Minis Alena which saves the day, if it hits, as I have no idea what the hit rate is there.  Think Monkeyfinger pulls it out from there; though if Mini doesn't hit he loses as Alena blows up Jess, Borya +Maya beat up Rosa, and Shiho is out of CT juice.  That leaves Lucian vs. three people which doesn't end well as he can't OHKO Alena.  (But that was all prefaced assuming Mini didn't hit, and if it does, then Alena is useless and Jess starts blowing stuff up.)

I miss anything with that?  And by the way, what path is Jessica going down?  Staves / Fisticuffs / enough Whips for TDL I assume?

As for Team Sage...  I normally abstain on his team due to unfamiliarity but if the turning point in the boss battle is whether Nina5 is allowed to have 3 shots of ID...  in a team setting where presumably characters are all not clustered nicely next to Nina5...  yeah, hell no to that.  I try and work movement into the DL anyway (it usually equalizes out), though I can understand ignoring it for sanity's sake...  this is a case where it's actually relevant, though, so tempted to vote pass for Sage if that's the only thing that can derail him.

So Monkey and Bardiche pass.

[Bardiche]

Arm Aiming Lucian (arguably, Leg Aim too) basically nukes Bardiche's MT offense, since Eiko & Lucian are both average speed and the way FF9 works I'd say the Esuna comes too late

Except Valk Profile lets you Menu Cast before attacking, and Shiho's Normalise removes all possible status ailments as well. :p

[dude789]

Nina 5's spells are ranged so I see her as being able to use them without having to move.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Tai... finally falls. Dear god that floor is nuts.

Reading everyone else' arguments looks good to me. Things seem mostly favorable. Still curious about Thief Rikku, but I'm gonna say 'Pass' for the non-Tai teams.