Author Topic: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.  (Read 5323 times)

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2009, 11:14:08 PM »
Sounds like you are a trustworthy source of information on S3 to me.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2009, 11:22:37 PM »
Sasarai does about ~0.909 PCHP to average, if I am doing this right... (Sasarai's damage expressed as a percentage against the killpoint in the stat topic)

At the very least, not sure where you got the 0.9 PC HP damage numbers, since Sasarai does slightly less than 2K, and the kill point listed in the topic is less than 1900. More like 1.05 via the topic.
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Bardiche

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2009, 11:28:09 PM »
Quote
Damage Average
Sasarai 1708
Emily 1698
Juan 1637
Geddoe 1597
Augustine 1587
[...]
(Kogoro 262)
(Koichi 253)
Kokoru 251
(Connie 173)
Average: 751……..(744 w/ C6 PCs and Non-Stars)
Kill Point: 1878…..(1860 w/ C6 PCs and Non-Stars)

That damage average.

Ah yeah I see now his listed damage is higher in his actual little spot... huh, weird. So he already OHKOs average.

Let's see. 1.157 to Lyon then, if I apply the same maths as I did to the average that has him do less damage. It just makes the overkill worse. :p
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 11:36:15 PM by Bardiche »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2009, 12:08:27 AM »
Quote
I have personally almost never seen Resist kick in in-game

Seriously? It almost never fails to kick in when a mage is hit by a spell. Even the Prince/Miakis/etc. tier of Magic activates it fairly often... I can attest to this just from watching the game last weekend. Lyon... it's probably rarer.

It seems highly unlikely to me that Lyon will fail to 2HKO Sasarai (unless he drops his Reflection Ring in which case she's just going to try to ID him instead). S3 Def is a pretty potent stat.

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Bardiche

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2009, 12:20:52 AM »
Oh right, forgot he needs that Reflect Ring for the 50% mevade as opposed to 30%!

That does make it a lot closer, and I can definitely see an argument for Lyon then. I've personally not seen Resist kick in a lot at all, but I don't like Suikoden mages that much. Hmmm... may be worth looking around for how high that Resist rate is.

(also, Sasarai's Repel is at best +7% PhysEvade, so as suspected completely ignorable~)

alanna82

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2009, 07:04:27 PM »
Fou-Lu (BoF4) vs. Gades (Lufias)
Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA) vs. Tir McDohl (Suikos)

Heavy:

Pamela Ibis (MK) vs. Elly van Houten (XG)
Vayne Aurelius (MK) vs. Maya Amano (Persona 2)- LOL Maya vs physicals
Sasarai (S3) vs. Lyon (S5)- yeah, OHKO works
Boomerang (WA) vs. Billy Lee Black (XG)- dont remember anything about boomerang, for all that I have played WA and ACF

Middle:

Noah (PS) vs. Seifer Almasy (FF8)- I lack words
Max (SF1) vs. Ursula (FE7)
Oswin (FE7) vs. Vincent Valentine (FF7)
Grand Master (FF1) vs. Wiegraf Folles (FFT)

Light:


Gobi (BoF1) vs. Orcha (CC)
Garcia (FE8) vs. Irenes (CC)- Doubles and has evasion. Also her techs are magical, of which Garcia has poor magic def.
Thomas (S3) vs. Randi (SoM)- Parry goodness.

Bardiche

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2009, 08:18:57 PM »
Godlike:

Fou-Lu (BoF4) vs. Gades (Lufias)
Marino (MMXCM) vs. Millenia (G2) - Millenia doesn't like this match. At all.
Cecilia Lyne Adelhyde (WA) vs. Tir McDohl (Suikos) - I guess. He just had to draw the one who can resist him completely.

Heavy:

Pamela Ibis (MK) vs. Elly van Houten (XG)
Vayne Aurelius (MK) vs. Maya Amano (Persona 2) - How potent is the Persona 2 defense stat? Vayne can do ~1.785 damage if that 3+ shots average x 2.5 can be reliably used as killpoint, and Maya has 0.84 HP? (assuming Maihime doesn't change that number) How much would Ether skills affect Vayne's chances?
Sasarai (S3) vs. Lyon (S5) - Unless someone knows where the Magic Resist rates can be calc'd, I'm pretty confident to vote for Sasarai here.
Boomerang (WA) vs. Billy Lee Black (XG) - Should probably check, because I think I was underleveled for Boomerang ACF.

Middle:

Oswin (FE7) vs. Vincent Valentine (FF7)

Light:

Gobi (BoF1) vs. Orcha (CC)
Garcia (FE8) vs. Irenes (CC)
Thomas (S3) vs. Randi (SoM)

Fudozukushi

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2009, 08:42:18 PM »

Sasarai (S3) vs. Lyon (S5) - Unless someone knows where the Magic Resist rates can be calc'd, I'm pretty confident to vote for Sasarai here.

The area boss for the Ashtwal moutains area has a lightning magic attack, and the Raging Nether Gate guys have afire spell.  Those are really the only two things.  The only bosses that use Earth are way earlier in the game.

James_xeno

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2009, 10:19:19 PM »
Garcia scrapes a 2HKO to average durability and has counters. Irenes sorta has to trigger those counters, has crappy damage (and she can't properly double her entire offense) and is below average on both HP and defense. She kinda has to one-turn to win, and with CC accuracy woes+her own shoddy damage hitting a few poor waves here, she won't pull it off so easily.

Yeah but the combination of Irenes's high evasion, (t4th best, out of 40+) Garcia's below average accuracy and Chrono Cross's evasion, means she should be able to evade enough to get the job done.

On the other side. Irenes shouldn't have many problems hitting, with above average accuracy and Garcia's horrible (nearly game worst) evasion.

Irenes magic (Siren Song - Flu) should make quick work of Garcia's well below average magic durability.


« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 10:22:00 PM by James_xeno »
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2009, 11:02:15 PM »
I think Irenes is even arguably long range (She...attacked with floating musical notes, I think?), meaning that under the free counter view, Garcia would need a Hand Axe (Which granted, he might 2HKO with to a non-Killer average anyways! But also increases the chance of her evading a hit, and he's not getting the second counter.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2009, 11:39:40 PM »
Bows. If Irenes is long-range, she doesn't have a melee option either, so Garcia can swap to a bow, which is better than a Hand Axe for both damage and accuracy.
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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2009, 01:32:13 AM »
IIRC, Irenes attacks up-close for her 1- and 2- power physicals, but she uses the long-range musical notes (that I believe are also MT) for the 3-power physical. I could have the numbers backwards, but the point is that I think she can choose.

Taishyr

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2009, 02:21:57 AM »
Bardiche: You heard the discussion, but just to summarize for everyone else: Ether skills, if allowed, would be a net boost to his damage, though not a colossal one (notable, mind). Maya's HP is only that low if you don't allow stat customization and just run with OK's numbers (P2:IS Maya build, which is low Vit). She can easily score gamebest HP/near best defense, have gamebest Tec, and -nearly catch up to Ulala in Agi- at level 65 (this puts no points in Str which she never really wants in game and she's fucked if she's relying on it for the DL, and Luc which doesn't affect enough from my tests to make it something she wants to invest into DL-wise.)

Defense stat is potent, definitely notable, though I can't give you a x defense/y damage conversion yet, sadly. She flat halves damage of all sorts with Dance of Protection up.

My calc of Vayne's damage is 1.7x PCHP with a full rush by your method (very good, I'd not have noticed that possibility). Going by flat numbers as they stand in both topics, one more thing Maya has - she can equip for evasion. About 10-20%, but that should shave enough off each attack that she can survive the rush, barely.

Talaysen

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2009, 06:56:15 PM »
For Ether effects, Vayne has a few options offensively.  There's ID and Seal, if Maya doesn't resist those.  Overrealm -> ID -> Overrealm -> ID -> ... -> Overrealm -> IDx3 gives him a lot of shots of the ID before running out of SP (but if he misses all of them he's screwed).  Seal isn't going to do much unless it's turn 1, since he still needs to outslug afterwards.  Other than that, there's also the obvious offensive stat boosters (ATK/SP for more Chaos Devotions), and more notably +crit (about a 30% increase or so to crit rate), which makes more of his damage ITD to get around Dance of Protection (arguably, at least).

Not sure if any of that it is enough for him to win, but that's what he's got to work with here.  Just remember that the averages go up if you allow ether effects since everyone gets them (Vayne still ends up ahead on damage as was previously said, but yeah).

Taishyr

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Re: Season 56, Week 1 - More liquor. More Penguin. More reason to facepalm.
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2009, 10:49:14 PM »
She can block ID and two of the three personas block status (only relevant if you don't allow immediate switches, as Maia Custom and Artemis both block both statuses.