Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 21

[Nephrite]

"So the new blood thinks it can beat this? Very well. Let us see what else you can do."

Everyone vs. Floors


Team Bardiche's Matches

Floor 6a: Those that fight underlings (Before Endgame)

Battle #26: Reno, Rude, Elena, Fujin, Raijin and Seifer

Reno: The Turks will show you no mercy.
Fujin: DESTROY.
Seifer: What, chicken butt.

Battle #27: Rofel, Adramelk, Kletian and Zalera

Rofel: The power of the Zodiacs shall stop you.
Adramelk: Hahaha... Fools.
Kletian: I shall show you true magic!
Zalera: ZODIAC BEAST

Battle #28: Xenobia and Royce

Xenobia: Master Ghaleon may not be here... but I will destroy you anyway.
Royce: Yes, sister. We shall show them what it means to face the Vile Tribe.

Battle #29: Zog, Melfice and Zio

Zog: I, the ruler of the Dark Dragons, shall end your lives here.
Melfice: Heh heh heh. You think this horn is just for show?
Zio: My master will destroy you if I do not.

Boss Battle #6: Rubicant (FF4o), Valvalis (FF4o), Scarmiglione (FF4 DS) and Cagnazzo (FF4 DS)

Scarmiglione: Zombie, Zombie, teshita no minna wo doro doro!
Cagnazzo: Tsunami, Tsunami... I forgot the rest.
Valvalis: Let's go~! <3
Rubicant: LEG


Team Monkey's Matches

Floor 6c: Super Smash

"I've been playing some of your human games lately... I thought this one might be interesting.

Battle #26: Ursula, Peter, Frog and Bob

*These enemies take 40% damage from all attacks.

Ursula: Let's go!
Frog: Doeth a barrel roll!
Peter: ...A what?

Battle #27: Valeria, Robo, Pikachu, Wigglytuff and Lucario

*These enemies get to double-act.

Robo: So, you are a Captain. You also have a Falcon Rune. Would that make you Captain Fa-
Valeria: Enough.

Battle #28: Mario, Toadstool and Bowser

*These enemies resurrect with full HP and FP when killed once. They must be killed a total of two times.

Mario: It's-a-me! Mario!
Bowser: Grumble grumble...

Battle #29: Ike, Roy, Marth and Lyn

*These enemies counter all attacks against them, including non-damaging ones. They must counter with a damage attack.

Ike: Aether!!
Roy: Sealed Sword!
Lyn: Here's an item!
Marth: Falchion!

Boss Battle #6: Ness, Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur

*These PCs cannot be hit with any kind of status or stat downs, including things like MP Damage, equip breaks or otherwise unblockable status.

Ness: Um... well, this is a bit odd. Oh well. Pokemon Fight! Ready... GO!



Team Consonant and Djinn's Matches

Floor 2b: Assaulting the Castle

"Well, let's see if you can manage to overtake this castle on your journey to me...

Battle #6: FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard and FF1 White Wizard

Knight: They're assaulting the castle! Repel them!
Wizard: Haha... you'll never get past us!

Battle #7: Frog and Crono

Frog: I am sorry, Sir Crono, for dragging thou into such a fight.
Crono: ...!

Battle #8: FF9 Freya, Kain and FFT Lancer

Freya: Let us go!
Kain: Dragoons! Let's stop them here!

Battle #9: Gilliam, Oswin, Galleon and FF1 Knight

Gilliam: You will not pass the royal guard!
Oswin: That's right! You'll have to kill all of us!
Galleon: Let's go, lads!

Boss Battle #2: FF4 DS Cecil and Nina4

Cecil: I'm sorry this had to happen while you were visiting, Princess.
Nina: It is quite all right... let us show them why they should not have attacked us.


---------------------------------------------

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen, Lucian (MT) & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[Floor 6a: Those who fight Underlings]
Team Bardiche  vs. Reno, Rude, Elena, Fujin, Raijin and Seifer
Team Bardiche  vs. Rofel, Adramelk, Zalera and Kletian
Team Bardiche  vs. Xenobia and Royce
*Full Heal
Team Bardiche  vs. Zog, Melfice and Zio
Team Bardiche  vs. Rubicant (FF4o) Valvalis (FF4o), Scarmiglione (FF4 DS) and Cagnazzo (FF4 DS)

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[Floor 6c: Super Smash]
*These enemies take 40% damage from all attacks. (i.e An attack that does 200 normal damage does 80 to them)
Team Monkey vs. Ursula, Peter, Frog and Bob (S2)
*The enemies get to doubleact.
Team Monkey vs. Valeria, Robo, Pikachu, Wigglytuff and Lucario
*The enemies must be killed twice. They resurrect fully restored when they are killed.
**Full Heal
Team Monkey vs. Mario, Toadstool and Bowser
*All actions against these enemies can be countered, including debuffs. They must counter with a weapon attack.
Team Monkey vs. Ike, Roy, Marth and Lyn
*These PCs cannot be hit with any kind of status or stat downs, including things like MP Damage, equip breaks or otherwise unblockable status.
Team Monkey vs. Ness, Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur

Team Consonant | Celes, Alys, Lucian & Shiho, Ayla (Life)
[Floor 2b: Assaulting the Castle]
Team Consonant vs. FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard, FF1 White Wizard
Team Consonant vs. Frog and Crono
Team Consonant vs. FF9 Freya, Kain and FFT Lancer
Team Consonant vs. Gilliam, Oswin, Galleon and FF1 Knight
Team Consonant vs. FF4 DS Cecil and Nina4

Team Djinn | Cloud, Raquel, Aika. Tear, Aeris  (Violent Burst Law)
[Floor 2b: Assaulting the Castle]
[Materia: Cover (Mastered), Revive]
Team Djinn vs. FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard, FF1 White Wizard
Team Djinn vs. Frog and Crono
Team Djinn vs. FF9 Freya, Kain and FFT Lancer
Team Djinn vs. Gilliam, Oswin, Galleon and FF1 Knight
Team Djinn vs. FF4 DS Cecil and Nina4



Multitarget - One person on the team's actions all become Multitargetted. However, the damage of regular attacks, the healing of all spells that restore HP or MP, the status rates of status spells or attacks and the effect of buffs or debuffs (rounded down to the nearest half point in the case of Pokemon) is reduced to 50% of the original base chance. (For example, Deadly Fingertips has a max 50% chance of hitting all targets.) This applies even if there is only one opponent left.

Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing by 50%. (This means full healing is always
50%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP.

Violent Burst Law - Characters with game-specific gauges begin each floor with them at 100%. They charge at 50% of their normal rates.

[Random Consonant]

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen, Lucian (MT) & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[Floor 6a: Those who fight Underlings]
Team Bardiche  vs. Reno, Rude, Elena, Fujin, Raijin and Seifer - Scrubfiesta.
Team Bardiche  vs. Rofel, Adramelk, Zalera and Kletian - Shouldn't be a problem.
Team Bardiche  vs. Xenobia and Royce - Again, should be manageable.
*Full Heal
Team Bardiche  vs. Zog, Melfice and Zio - Okay, let's look at the enemy's options here.  If Melfice opens with Shhh! on Deis, then... Shiho throws up MR, Eiko/Eileen/Lucian do their things.  This assault should be enough to take out Melfice and maybe Zio (then again, my Zio respect is low), at which point it becomes infinite healing vs. Zog.  Yeah no.  Shhh! on Shiho... leads to more or less the same scenario, except you have either Deis MT or Atk-Up on Lucian, and Zio should definitely die in that case.  Shhh! on Eileen is probably the worst case for Bard, but again, my Zio respect is such that he probably falls before he and Zog can get nasty.  If Melfice opts for damage... then it pretty much goes to scenario 2.  So yeah, I can see Bard faltering here, but my Zio interp is such that I think he avoids it, and that's what this hinges on, really.
Team Bardiche  vs. Rubicant (FF4o) Valvalis (FF4o), Scarmiglione (FF4 DS) and Cagnazzo (FF4 DS) - Ooookay.  Valvalis spins, Rubicant overkills someone, probably Lucian to make sure he doesn't get a turn to kill Cagnazzo.  Then Cagnazzo gets his turn and smacks everyone with Slow.  Yay.  I really doubt the team can bounce back from that.

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[Floor 6c: Super Smash]
*These enemies take 40% damage from all attacks. (i.e An attack that does 200 normal damage does 80 to them)
Team Monkey vs. Ursula, Peter, Frog and Bob (S2)
*The enemies get to doubleact.
Team Monkey vs. Valeria, Robo, Pikachu, Wigglytuff and Lucario
*The enemies must be killed twice. They resurrect fully restored when they are killed.
**Full Heal
Team Monkey vs. Mario, Toadstool and Bowser
*All actions against these enemies can be countered, including debuffs. They must counter with a weapon attack.
Team Monkey vs. Ike, Roy, Marth and Lyn
*These PCs cannot be hit with any kind of status or stat downs, including things like MP Damage, equip breaks or otherwise unblockable status.
Team Monkey vs. Ness, Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur - Yeah the last two fights make things look kinda bleak.  On the other hand, the argument for Monkey's team seems sound enough, so why not.

Team Consonant | Celes, Alys, Lucian & Shiho, Ayla (Life)
[Floor 2b: Assaulting the Castle]
Team Consonant vs. FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard, FF1 White Wizard - This isn't a problem.
Team Consonant vs. Frog and Crono - Crono gets taken out easily enough.  Frog is Frog.
Team Consonant vs. FF9 Freya, Kain and FFT Lancer - Enemies kinda fail it up here.  If Freya uses LUNA that just leads to crazed Saner'd Lucian smashing faces in a fit of emo rage.
Team Consonant vs. Gilliam, Oswin, Galleon and FF1 Knight - Right, so Shiho has Guard Reinforce, Alys has Saner, and Celes may have Imp depending on your interpretation.  This should be enough to handle the fight.
Team Consonant vs. FF4 DS Cecil and Nina4 - And this here is a case of infinite healing against finite healing with unthreatening damage.

Abstain on Team Djinn.

[dude789]

Monkey and Bard fall. Random passes. Abstain on Djinn.

Melfice is faster than everyone on Bard's team and Zog and Zio are both slower. Melfice Shhs Eileen and the team struggles to kill him as Lucian has issues hitting him. Zog and Zio unleash MT doom on the team and Melfice finishes them off. If Eiko uses reflect than Zio kills her and Zog and Melfice team up to kill Shiho. The team can't beat the rest of the floor without healers.

Monkey has troubles on almost all the fights and the Ness fight finally gets him.

[Monkeyfinger]

Ugly. I think both me and Bard get worn down by our last 2 fights and lose.

Well, we all have it easy enough on our first 3.

Bard's first 2 get MT blitzed. Royce and Xenobia are dangerous because of status, but MT copper flesh makes their damage manageable. Status cures off of a big speed advantage control things pretty nicely, with only an occasional need for an actual heal, and Eileen and Lucian put out good nonstop offense.

My first fight gets owned by Mew tanking and accelerated Rosa throwing around holds, second fight is quick kills (fire blast OHKOs Lucario, TDL does Pikachu, MR smash gets Wigglytuff, Hold takes out Valeria, Robo gets a turn but can't do anything with it), Third fight is hold on bowser + safeguard + grind out with Shiho's heal.

For bard's last 2 fights: Melfice silences Eileen, and no one can cure her in time to stop Zio and Zog from unleashing their MT barrage. Eileen and Shiho die, Lucian almost dies, Eiko and Deis barely feel it. For the benefit of doubt I'll say constant attacking from Deis and buffed Lucian and one summon from Eiko kills Zio and Melfice before they get second turns, and Eiko gets to use her second turn on support. Only, reviving someone is pretty pointless, because Zog's Char will put her right back down and wear down Deis and kill Lucian to boot. So she focuses on keeping everyone who's already alive on life support, and writes Eileen and Shiho off as losses.

Nall brings that pair back for the next fight, but with 1 HP. Crazy fast Valvalis kills Eileen, kinda fast Rubicant MTs Scorch and kills Shiho. Bard can't really MT rush because of Scar's counters, so they have to focus on 1 boss, and they can't one round any of them with 3 people, so Valvalis throws around slow petrifies and Rubicant one shots Deis and Scar puts constant pressure on Eiko, maybe even kills her, and yeah this just goes to shit fast.

For mine: Mew throws up light screen. Jessica accelerates. Lucian tires to smash someone, Rosa tries to hold someone, but one of these attempts will miss. We'll say Lyn dies. Survivors take out Mew and Shiho. Shiho can be brought back by Jessica who now has Kazing, but she keeps dying, and while Lucian and Rosa are still attacking they're getting worn down by counters and spare attacks. Things are kind of fuzzy due to crits and evade but I can never really afford to rest and bring both Shiho and Mew back for good.

If I get Mew back for the boss, he fire blasts Penusaur for an OHKO, Jessica oomphs Lucian, Lucian + Rosa's Holy kill Ness. What the fuck can Charizard and Blastoise do? But... I figure I come in with at least one death, and I need everyone. Penusaur's sleep whoring is too dangerous. Hell, just do it on Rosa before she goes and that's GG.

Don't see a reason why the newer teams wouldn't pass.

[Bardiche]

Going to ignore the first three fights.

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen, Lucian (MT) & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[Floor 6a: Those who fight Underlings]
Team Bardiche  vs. Reno, Rude, Elena, Fujin, Raijin and Seifer
Team Bardiche  vs. Rofel, Adramelk, Zalera and Kletian
Team Bardiche  vs. Xenobia and Royce
*Full Heal
Team Bardiche vs. Zog, Melfice and Zio - As pointed out earlier, Melfice can't really do much, and the rest of the team cleans up. Eileen EQ + MR'd Lucian + Eiko summons should really kill Melfice. Zio depending on your respect, but in the event that Zio doesn't die... Hmm... Eiko could summon Carbuncle instead, or cast Protect/Shell to mitigate damages.

Suppose Eileen gets Sssh'd instead. Deis either busts out the MT damage or gives Lucian a helping of Atk Up. Lucian erupts in mad laughter and does more damage than Eileen would likely add, while Shiho cures Eileen and Eiko does her thing. Ultimately, whoever gets silenced doesn't completely matter a lot.

Worst case scenario, Eileen expends a Copper Flesh charge to make one of the healers immortal so they can definitely revive whoever dies.

Really Worst Case Scenario: Zio and Melfice have enough HP to withstand the entire assault and don't die on the first turn. Melfice already acted, so Zio and Zog take the frail people home and kill them: let's say that's Eileen and Shiho. Deis busts out more damage against Melfice, which should then end up killing him. Zio follows that fate: only Zog remains now. Eileen and Shiho are dead. Eiko just healed everyone, though, and then uses Full-Life to pick up Shiho. If she doesn't HAVE that by that time, she simply waits out her action until Zog acts. Then she revives Shiho, who throws out infinite healing until Eiko picks up Eileen right after Zog attacks. Then the fight goes to town.
Team Bardiche vs. Rubicant (FF4o) Valvalis (FF4o), Scarmiglione (FF4 DS) and Cagnazzo (FF4 DS) - Doesn't Scarmi counter physicals with Slow on the one that unleashed said physical...? Rubicant's Fire 2 counter is more dangerous. As well, Rubicant is said to have 22-23 speed, whereas Cecil has 21.

Now do forgive me but I don't think Cecil is rather speedy. Does Rubicant really outspeed Eileen? If Deis casts Atk.Up on Lucian, and Eileen follows that up with Copper Flesh, can the bosses do anything to prevent Lucian from just downright murdering them solo?

Let's see... Rubicante FF4o. 22-23 speed, Cecil has 21. Casts MT Raise on the party when hit with Fire. Deis2 has Fire elemental magic. How abusable. I grant you that he's dangerous, but if Cecil would be average speed at this point, is that one-two points really going to outspeed Eileen's notable advantage over the average?

Valvalis uses his first turn spinning. After that, pretty much 19-20 speed against Cecil 18. So crazyfast does not apply.

Scarmiglione and Cagnazzo are said to be "slow" in their stat topics. Very, abhorrently slow. Cagnazzo is so slow that he couldn't even lap slowed PCs. Scarmiglione got doubled by Cecil.

What's going to stop Eiko, who halves, nulls or absorbs any elemental attack the fiends throw out, from summoning Carbuncle and/or Phoenix to just pick the team right back up and laugh at feeble attempts to further push out damage? She can later Haste members to undo the entire Slow ailment IF YOU SEE CAGNAZZO AS GETTING THAT TURN, which I certainly don't.

[Clear Tranquil]

Analysis for teh scenario where Melfice Ssshs two or more of your team please Bard =D

I'll buy that your team might be spread out somewhat ... though not in their first turn if everyone's forced to turn based (standard for dungeon and teams?) so if Melfice catches them in a row ... ~

[Random Consonant]

What's going to stop Eiko, who halves, nulls or absorbs any elemental attack the fiends throw out, from summoning Carbuncle and/or Phoenix to just pick the team right back up and laugh at feeble attempts to further push out damage? She can later Haste members to undo the entire Slow ailment IF YOU SEE CAGNAZZO AS GETTING THAT TURN, which I certainly don't.

In order to undo the slowing, she would first have to get a turn, which is a tall order since Scarmy/Cagnazzo have 2HKO physicals and Rubicant has Glare, which, even while halved (which is the best Eiko can do to it, I will point out) still murders her horribly.

As for FF4o speed, let's just say that it's fucked up and leave it at that.

[Bardiche]

Analysis for teh scenario where Melfice Ssshs two or more of your team please Bard =D

I go emo, genuflect, then punch a wall. My punch will deal zero damage to the wall. The wall will reflect my attack and cause damage to my hand equal to the power behind the punch.

I weep a little at how pathetic I am and try to make myself taller.

What's going to stop Eiko, who halves, nulls or absorbs any elemental attack the fiends throw out, from summoning Carbuncle and/or Phoenix to just pick the team right back up and laugh at feeble attempts to further push out damage? She can later Haste members to undo the entire Slow ailment IF YOU SEE CAGNAZZO AS GETTING THAT TURN, which I certainly don't.

In order to undo the slowing, she would first have to get a turn, which is a tall order since Scarmy/Cagnazzo have 2HKO physicals and Rubicant has Glare, which, even while halved (which is the best Eiko can do to it, I will point out) still murders her horribly.

As for FF4o speed, let's just say that it's fucked up and leave it at that.

Well, yes, but Cagnazzo was said to be lapped by people who were slowed. I dunno, sounds pretty horrible man.

Even so. My silence up till now kind of illustrates my difficulty in finding a really solid, undeniable and agreeable solution to the problems.

I was also under the impression loading up two halve Fire equips would make a null? Also, if it's magical, doesn't Mdef save?

Mind you, this is all assuming that Eileen is outsped by Rubicante. Should Rubicante drop Eiko in the first round or whatever, Deis can just cast a fire spell on him to trigger the delicious team revival counter while Shiho focuses on healing the team and Eileen throws Copper Fleshes around like pastry.

[superaielman]

I think both me and Bard get worn down by our last 2 fights and lose.

Don't see a reason why the newer teams wouldn't pass.

[SnowFire]

Confused as to why Monkey thinks his team will go into the final fight missing people.  Depending on interpretation, it's possible that Monkey loses the FE fight outright, of course, but assuming he makes it...  it's not like Monkey's dependent on MT attacks that could inconveniently kill everyone at the wrong time.  Assuming even just one of Rosa / Shiho / Jessica is alive, a single Held enemy stands there useless while they resurrect the entire team and walk into the next fight in the perfect bloom of health, right?

Which is not to say that team Monkey has my vote necessarily.  Notably, FF4 speed is kinda trainwrecky but isn't Ness faster than Rosa?  Since Ness has "lol I win" MT status that's potentially bad...  except the stat topic hypes Lucian as doing something like .9 PCHP damage, so ~1.8 PCHP damage should be enough to kill Ness anyway.  I'm also not entirely sure about DQ8 Accelerate hype for massive owning of FE characters, and maybe Monkey is as well since losing Mew & Shiho implies incoming doubles despite Accelerate.  (Also, don't you mean Reflect not Light Screen?  The physical defense buffer, whatever it is.)  Anyway, even if they're still doubling a lot, Jessica is mostly safe and Accelerated and everyone's buffed, so it's not so bad except on criticals.  The biggest problem is that Rosa wants to both MT Heal, Hold, and Revive, so her turns are going to be pressed...  but my kneejerk is that team Monkey probably pulls through.  Tentative pass unless someone can point out what I'm missing.

New teams pass, may look at Bardiche later.

[Monkeyfinger]

I don't see real speed affecting FE doubles, so Ike and Lyn always double everyone in the DL (except other FE characters with high AS). Marth too? Don't actually know his speed.

I'll think more about my match though.

I did overrate Rosa's speed. Though another option for killing Ness  if I have everyone would be Jessica accelerating her in front of Ness, and Lucian getting a buff from Shiho instead.

[Cmdr_King]

Marth is... +2 on average?  Average?  It was one of the two (hinode's stat topic link has kinda died so I can't check now)  Acceptable in-game speed but not walking death in the DL.

[hinode]

Marth was +3.5 average speed with the levels (28) I gave him in the need-to-be-completed-and-reuploaded topic. At level 30 he'd be +4.5.

His level cap is 30 instead of 20 for promotable PCs, but he gains moderately less exp than a promoted PC would (and needs one more level, to go from 20 to 21) so it's debatable.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen, Lucian (MT) & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[Floor 6a: Those who fight Underlings]
Team Bardiche  vs. Reno, Rude, Elena, Fujin, Raijin and Seifer
Team Bardiche  vs. Rofel, Adramelk, Zalera and Kletian
Team Bardiche  vs. Xenobia and Royce - Has the tools to handle it this far, though the Vile Tribe girls have scary status... just... not fast enough to get everyone before Lucian-y death.
*Full Heal
Team Bardiche  vs. Zog, Melfice and Zio - Isn't Melfice's Sssh! only available after a certain amount of damage? I didn't think he could pull it out turn 1... and it's not 100% accurate? There is too much Sssh! hype going on, I think.
Team Bardiche  vs. Rubicant (FF4o) Valvalis (FF4o), Scarmiglione (FF4 DS) and Cagnazzo (FF4 DS) - I think Bard's scenario plays out well here, but I'm also seeing Eiko as getting Trance by this fight. Some Dbl Wht can go pretty far in turning the tide of a close battle like this.

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[Floor 6c: Super Smash]
*These PCs cannot be hit with any kind of status or stat downs, including things like MP Damage, equip breaks or otherwise unblockable status.
Team Monkey vs. Ness, Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur

The team isn't reliant on status, so Monkey has a shot at this, but honestly, I'm not sure how this will go. Abstain.


Team Consonant | Celes, Alys, Lucian & Shiho, Ayla (Life)
[Floor 2b: Assaulting the Castle]
Team Consonant vs. FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard, FF1 White Wizard
Team Consonant vs. Frog and Crono
Team Consonant vs. FF9 Freya, Kain and FFT Lancer - More Lucian damage hax.
Team Consonant vs. Gilliam, Oswin, Galleon and FF1 Knight - While I probably wouldn't see Imp being available for the first fight, I think by this point, Celes can start her nasty status game.
Team Consonant vs. FF4 DS Cecil and Nina4 - Shiho infinite healing works as a decisive strategy here.

Team Djinn | Cloud, Raquel, Aika, Tear, Aeris  (Violent Burst Law)
[Floor 2b: Assaulting the Castle]
[Materia: Cover (Mastered), Revive]
Team Djinn vs. FFT Knight, FFT Archer, FF1 Black Wizard, FF1 White Wizard - Aika Delta Shields to shrug off Status worries from the Wizards, Cloud and Raquel pick them off. Tear sleeps Knight before any reckless equipment breaking can occur.
Team Djinn vs. Frog and Crono - Just too much pressure from Cloud and Raquel's physicals. And team Crono isn't outpacing my 3 healers. If necessary, Tear and Aika still have physical damage that registers at this point to keep pressure on.
Team Djinn vs. FF9 Freya, Kain and FFT Lancer - Aika Swirlmarangs Freya or tosses out another Delta Shield to keep Luna from wrecking havoc. From there, it's easy clean-up.
Team Djinn vs. Gilliam, Oswin, Galleon and FF1 Knight - Aeris drops Seal Evil on the status-bait, next.
Team Djinn vs. FF4 DS Cecil and Nina4 - This would take a while, but Raquel still has Intrude x4 waiting in the wings. Cloud hasn't used his Limit yet, either.

[Clear Tranquil]

... dunno what version of FF7 you played Djinn but as far my experience goes you cannot use basic physicals if your limit meter is full >.> Cloud with base physicals has no choice *but* to blow his limit first turn if he wants to continue using them <.<

*EYES*

*patpats Bard*

[Nephrite]

... dunno what version of FF7 you played Djinn but as far my experience goes you cannot use basic physicals if your limit meter is full >.> Cloud with base physicals has no choice *but* to blow his limit first turn if he wants to continue using them <.<

This is correct.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Hold up. I was under the impression Limits weren't forced to be used under VBL, even if they normally were? I figured it fell under that same clause as WA3/4 FP conservation?

[superaielman]

Team Bardiche  vs. Zog, Melfice and Zio - Isn't Melfice's Sssh! only available after a certain amount of damage? I didn't think he could pull it out turn 1... and it's not 100% accurate? There is too much Sssh! hype going on, I think.

Nope, Melfice can use everything at full health.

[Nephrite]

Hold up. I was under the impression Limits weren't forced to be used under VBL, even if they normally were? I figured it fell under that same clause as WA3/4 FP conservation?

How are those things the same? You can still use a normal physical in Wild Arms 4 since they do not take FP.

[Clear Tranquil]

Djinn   Why do you think people kept trying to warn you off VBL? >.>  We all kept telling you it wasn't a good idea due to FF7 characters, etc -  because of reasons like this. FF7 and FF9 have restrictions tied to their limit systems to use them.

There are ways around the physicals tied to limits thingy in FF7 but ... you currently don't have access to any.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Djinn   Why do you think people kept trying to warn you off VBL? >.>  We all kept telling you it wasn't a good idea due to FF7 characters, etc -  because of reasons like this. FF7 and FF9 have restrictions tied to their limit systems to use them.

There are ways around the physicals tied to limits thingy in FF7 but ... you currently don't have access to any. Except defending.

There were a large number of reasons people warned me not to use VBL. Never once was this one brought up. And I remember asking specifically about this topic to Neph before, though I guess I must've either misremembered the answer or never received one.

Well, on this particular floor it doesn't matter, Cloud can waste his Limit in match one to get through the FFT-ers faster and use his physical just fine after that, though that's a really stupid stipulation to attach to the VBL - the reason the WA4 FP conservation was allowed was due to being forced to use all of it in match 1 or else it would disappear. It's basically the same effect on FF7 characters and I brought it up a long time ago during the same discussion.

>.>;;

[Clear Tranquil]

I missed the part where a special allowance was made for WA4 >.> Nobody's ever used VBL before so uhh ... I never knew about any FP conservation part! Really can't recall it. Other than that FP is conserved if you *don't* use it and that FP is only used if you're using something you need FP for, if you don't use your bar you still have it. Could be mistaken but yeah. Regardless -

There were a large number of reasons people warned me not to use VBL. Never once was this one brought up. And I remember asking specifically about this topic to Neph before, though I guess I must've either misremembered the answer or never received one.

People tend to decide on a case by case basis yeah. People tend to default to what they know/in game experiences if unsure and they have to use other methods to store Cloud's limits across battles in FF7 while forfieting the Attack command (magic, defending, items, etc) so people would assume Cloud would be doing this in the dungeon too. While say Raquel can still Attack because her Attack command doesn't directly morph into Limit in game. Intrude, etc are in a different section. It's just common sense I think~

[Nephrite]

Here, this should help clear things up.

Violent Burst Law - Characters with game-specific gauges begin each floor with them at 100% and these gauges persist from fight-to-fight at whatever they ended the previous fight at. They charge at 50% of their normal rates.

[Dhyerwolf]

I missed the part where a special allowance was made for WA4 >.> Nobody's ever used VBL before so uhh ... I never knew about any FP conservation part! Really can't recall it. Other than that FP is conserved if you *don't* use it and that FP is only used if you're using something you need FP for, if you don't use your bar you still have it. Could be mistaken but yeah. Regardless -

The special allowance would be that the unused FP carries over at all, since it always resets after each battle in game.

[Clear Tranquil]

Well it's not quite the same thing where Cloud's physicals are concerned but yeah I see where Djinn's coming from now. I just didn't imagine Cloud had a hidden limit gauge seperate from his physical to access >.> While Raquel if she used Attack in battle her FP would persist until she entered and used the FP skills section.

Thanks Neph. That was my understanding of the stone as it stood too.

So yeah Djinn pick your materia wisely from here on out