Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 21

[Bardiche]

My Eiko respect is high.

Though, Protect halving Zio's damage should let her survive it, though? If Eileen's a lost cause, Shiho can also just cast Guard Reinforce for that 50% Def increase, which should stack with Protect since Protect halves damage?

Reaching, I know.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Well, I honestly don't see -what- stops your party from getting turns and living long enough to buff. The problem I actually see is that, as usual, Melfice and Zog line up nicely to MT kill the majority of your party, and the people who have tools to circumvent that can't deal with the group - and, really, Zio+Zog MT fweem most of your party (the kind which you sorta can't effectively buff against), which is baaaaaaaaaaaaad, because the remnants won't be able to patch everything back up.

[Bardiche]

So... Reflect is pretty much worthless, I take it then?

If Eiko doesn't need Carbuncle on the early fights, what'd happen if she equips the gem that makes it Shell instead?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Reflect leaves Eiko liable to get lol 2HKO'd by Melfice and Zio, is the problem. I don't think even Guard Reinforce works very well to mitigate getting 2HKOed there, and she can't Shell -and- Protect at the same time, and she also has issues against Silence long-term... it sorta looks like the pressure's adding up really goddamned fast.

[Bardiche]

As far as Silence goes, Eiko can probably equip Motormouth skill.

Carbuncle's Boost scene makes it Reflect+Protect normally. If you don't let Eiko have Boost, then I guess she's only casting MT Reflect, MT Shell or MT Haste.

Moonstone: "Jewel Light" casts Shell (short animation) or Shell and Protect (long animation)

If you let her have Boost, she can arguably cast Shell and Protect on the entire party?

Eh, it was a good run, but yeah, I don't think the argument to pass is particularly strong here, and I'm pretty satisfied with making it to Floor 6 regardless.

[Magic Fanatic]

As far as Silence goes, Eiko can probably equip Loudmouth skill.

Fixed.

Is she equipping some armor to get this skill, or are you seeing this as learnable to Eiko so that she doesn't HAVE to equip the required armor to learn it?

And has to equip the armor to get everything, for both Loudmouth and Fire halving...  She's either losing 32 Defense and 19 MDEF for going for the Golden Hairpin/Adaman Vest, (and losing Earth/Wind immunity in the process), Mage's Hat/Adaman Vest for -32 Defense and -37 MDEF ( same downside), Silk Robe/Black Hood for -30 Defense and -24 MDEF (Which she does NOT want, since the Silk Robe makes her Fire WEAK instead), OR...  For a meager -4 Defense and -24 MDEF, she can go for White Robe/Black Hood, which STILL makes her Fire Weak.

Yeah, she's either vulnerable to Silence, weak to fire, or has a defense rating of one-third average.  Not good...

Carbuncle's Boost scene makes it Reflect+Protect normally. If you don't let Eiko have Boost, then I guess she's only casting MT Reflect, MT Shell or MT Haste.

Moonstone: "Jewel Light" casts Shell (short animation) or Shell and Protect (long animation)

If you let her have Boost, she can arguably cast Shell and Protect on the entire party?

This FAQ confirms Bard's statement:

  NOTE: To make Fenrir change to 'Millennial Decay,' learn the summon and
         equip a Maiden's Prayer item. Fenrir'll do wind-elem damage, now.
         Anytime Carbuncle is shown at full animation, it gains the ability
         to add Protect to whatever status it's normally supposed to.

Still, I hope you're still fully aware that a full-party Shell is also halving your magical healing again...  Also, it still leaves other characters vulnerable to being Silenced anyway (and a full party Cura, in this case, is...  Since you only have 4 PCs...  What, 25% 50% average FFIX HP in healing anyway, so only sort of useful?).

Granted this is me nitpicking, so...  Feel free to ignore me.

[Bardiche]

FF9 Shell halves curative magicks, too? :psyduck:

And nah, it's good pointing out things. Handy for future reference.

[Magic Fanatic]

FF9 Shell halves curative magicks, too? :psyduck:

And nah, it's good pointing out things. Handy for future reference.

Well, only somewhere around halves, but...

------------
SPELL POWER
============
  Cure  : 16   (St/Mt)
  Cura  : 38   (St/Mt)
  Curaga: 107  (St/Mt)
  Holy  : 113  (St)

---------------
DAMAGE FORMULA
===============
Holy follows the same damage formula as Vivi's normal Black Magic.

  Base   = Spell Power - Targets Magic Defence
  Bonus  = Mag ... [(Lv + Mag) / 8] + Mag
  Damage = Base * Bonus

Notes:
  Bonus is halved by Shell.
  Bonus is halved whilst under Mini.

Cure, Cura, and Curaga are slightly different as they ignore Magic Defence.

  Base        = Spell Power
  Bonus       = Mag ... [(Lv + Mag) / 8] + Mag
  HP Restored = Base * Bonus

Notes:
  HP Restored = Base * [Bonus + 50%] if Concentrate is equipped.
  Bonus is halved by Shell.
  Bonus is halved whilst under Mini.
  Bonus is halved if you multi target the Spell.

Granted, with this formula...  Hell, I don't know.  Me having Garnet spam Curaga in my own tests only really resulted in a difference of like 800 HP ST'd, so...  I don't know what the hell.  Saying the formula SHOULD grant it halved healing makes sense, though...  But there was the biggest difference when I Mini'd Garnet for a random test (THAT was halved), but for Shell...  I don't understand.

It gets really confusing when there's several FAQs that recommend using Shell to stop bosses from healing so much.  It's quite baffling, I tell you.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Still, I hope you're still fully aware that a full-party Shell is also halving your magical healing again...  Also, it still leaves other characters vulnerable to being Silenced anyway (and a full party Cura, in this case, is...  Since you only have 4 PCs...  What, 25% average FFIX HP in healing anyway, so only sort of useful?).

Granted this is me nitpicking, so...  Feel free to ignore me.

According to the mechanics guide you just posted, MT-ing a spell on 2 people is the same as MT-ing a spell on 4 people. It also doesn't state whether MT-ing a spell and having a Shell up stack (though I assume they do).

[Magic Fanatic]

Yeah, I just noticed I forgot to fix that.

By the by, I have no idea what Shell does to Cure/ra/ga anymore.  Mini halved it, and that stacked with MTing it, but Shell didn't seem to do anything, even ST'd.

I'm left confused.  This is especially worrisome when two FAQs directly state that Shell halves healing, and a whole bunch of other FAQs start saying that casting Shell on a boss that heals itself is a good strategy...  What's to believe?

[Clear Tranquil]

Abstain: Monkey
Pass: Consonant, Djinn, Bard

[Magic Fanatic]

Abstain: Monkey
Pass: Consonant, Djinn

Fail: Bard.  That's the only real change I have to CT's votes.  It's just way too confusing for me to want to think on it further.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I'll be succinct: team Monkey, Random and Djinn pass. Team Bardiche crashes. Might relook the whole thing later, but this gut feeling after some reading of the topic and actually considering the fights feels right.

[Clear Tranquil]

*CTs are innocent*

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

* Jo'ou Ranbu thwacks CT with a stylus. >_>

[Clear Tranquil]

I'm an agent of chaos!

(chaotic good though ... I think)