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Author Topic: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009  (Read 21594 times)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #175 on: December 07, 2009, 01:28:11 AM »
Suikoden Tiekreis as the most likely ranked DS RPG? Tactics already has struggled enough, and doesn't have all the other issues that Tiekreis has had. I'd be absolutely shocked to see Tiekreis before Poke: DP, DQ 5, and VP:CoTP to name a few.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #176 on: December 07, 2009, 01:43:23 AM »
Actually I sorta said the opposite for Gen 4; the issue is that most people find the proposed ranking list boring.  You hit in the issue though- the most interesting duellist, Arceus/Darkrai/Shaymin/Manaphy, aren't really rankable due to promo status.  The remainders tend strongly towards one-dimensional.  Infernape is standard sweeping style, Torterra is your stereotypical tank, Palkia is a tanky slugger, Dialga is the same thing but can try for OHKOs, and Giratina has great affinities and mind-numbing durability but no offense to speak of.  Empoleon having the buffing game option is the best that crew has to offer, hence why people are more interested in ranking other packages from other generations even ignoring draw.

Now that said, at the end of the day only a tiny fraction of the DL will actually refuse to rank a cast for being a bit one-dimensional, but they will tend to latch on to most other viable ideas ahead of it, as seen with Wild ARMs 5 finishing third in, what, 3 different ranking topics before making the cut?  I think Pokémon, even Gen 4, has a bit higher potential than that, but the general trend is still there.

Aside: before someone asks, the Gen 4 promos are interesting for, in order; Arceus of can pick his damned typing and is the best pokemon ever, Darkrai is a top notch sleep whore, Shaymin has the Skymin option and has some fun tools to use Serene Grace with, and Manaphy, while not awesome, has a cool as heck utility tool in Heart Swap.
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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #177 on: December 07, 2009, 01:59:13 AM »
I'd like to point out that Infernape has plenty of other tricks - Nasty Plot for buffing special damage, healing with Slack Off, Calm Mind to buff spdef, Punishment to mess with buffers, and Taunt and Torment to hit certain kinds of duelists hard. It also has nice typing, resisting Ice and Fire.
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dude789

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #178 on: December 07, 2009, 02:15:47 AM »
For the other notable pokemon, I think Staraptor would be the first pokemon to be ranked with Intimidate which gives him an interesting anti-physical game when combined with double team and growl. Roserade is a unique combinination of typical pokemon sweeping with the status whoring of a grass type, and Lucario just has a really interesting skillset with Me First, Extreme Speed, Close Combat and a bunch of other moves. The only pokemon who is even close to boring in the list of 4th gen ranks is Torterra.

superaielman

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #179 on: December 07, 2009, 02:42:55 AM »
Where does all the pokemon D/P hate come from? The system translates almost perfectly and they are generally interesting duellers. Also, these three starters are generally considered to be one of the most interesting sets of starters. Granted, the legendaries aren't as interesting as some of the other legendaries, but even with legendaries, starters, and interesting pokemon it's a rather managable rank (about 9-12 or so). I'm just wondering why there's such a general apathy for a game that has interesting duellers and isn't that far from having very solid playership numbers.

It's internal numbers aren't good and it doesn't have a lot of potential growth thanks to the system/apathy about the game. People suggesting ranking it just -because- it's pokemon and ignoring the problems need to be torched.  Sorry, but pokemon with all it's problems needs far more than just scraping the bottom of the barrel for support, and DP can't even meet said scraping standards. I've seen next to no internal movement on the game since it came out, and the interest expressed in the topic for it here isn't exactly a shining indication that it will be a breakout hit.
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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #180 on: December 07, 2009, 03:25:19 AM »
Playstation Portable

Crisis Core FFVII- um.  So pretend that Parasite Eve had Materia, and that you could give that Materia massive stat bonuses through item fusion.  That's about how rankable this game is.

Jeanne D'Arc-  I... can't see this ever getting significant player counts.

SMT: Persona- Hey, Persona 1!  Um, I have no idea how many new players you coudl realistically expect from the game, but in theory it could take off and lead to a full ranking of Persona 1?  I'm certainly a lot more likely to play this version.  At this point, someone in the audience shoots me dead.

Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology- my impression is that the game has the main character of many classes that you get to pick once at the start of the game, then cameos.  Not a winning recipe.

Wild ARMs XF- Rank!

More chiming in.

CCFF7: Just being FF7 probably gives it a better chance than DPP, KH Days, and TWEWY. Still think the bosses are pretty rankable. Variable Zack respect isn't -that- different from variable respect from other games as far as I can tell.

JDA: Well, at least the duelists are easy enough to interpret. I'd like a FW Jeanne in Light just because she's cool. Not counting on it ever happening though.

SMT Persona 1: Well, at least I've played the PS1 version. I wonder how many people -have- played P1? The PSP release shouldn't hurt it any, at least.

Tales RM: Well... this cast is already ranked, except for Senel and Eugene, and Senel's the only thing I would like to see from ToL. However, it's not really a big deal. The bosses are kind of lame and non-existent. And the main is totally generic. If you tried ranking the generic classes individually, you'd just a have a basic (and faceless) Tales cast without anything to really make them different from TotA's cast. Not recommended. However, Genis, Rutee, and a few others might prefer this form.

WAXF: Rank.

Hunter Sopko

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #181 on: December 07, 2009, 03:35:42 AM »
Tales RM:  The bosses are kind of lame and non-existent.

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TranceHime

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #182 on: December 07, 2009, 06:21:53 AM »
Ranking list is boring.

Re: Dialga
I'm pretty sure Dialga has more resistances than Palkia does. Only thing that offsets that is that Palkia has the better defense that actually matters. I can definitely see where you're getting the "let's go OHKO!!!" thing from, it has a pretty nasty offensive state (i dunno roar of time off 150 sp.atk base? yeah that's gonna hurt).

Re: Giratina
* TranceHime inserts GIRA-O OFFENSE hype here
If you're telling me that Shaymin has the Skymin option if you're allowing Gen 4 promos, why can't Giratina get Gira-O for the offensive factor? It doesn't make sense to me, both are Pt and Gira-O is actually obtainable, and you can switch between forms without having to go through promo bullshit.

SMT Persona 1: Well, at least I've played the PS1 version. I wonder how many people -have- played P1? The PSP release shouldn't hurt it any, at least.

The PSP release also being miles better than the PS1 release helps it a bit too, I guess? Anyway, doesn't really matter much for me, I've played both releases >_>



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Cmdr_King

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #183 on: December 07, 2009, 06:42:28 AM »
Counterintuitively, steel typing is disadvantageous in the DL.  True, Normal resist translates readily into base physical, but you're acquiring a weakness to both Fire (the most common of all elements) and Earth (while less common, earth elemental attacks are very strong when they are used).  That said, Dragon typing negates the fire weakness and adds lightning resists as well, so on the whole Dialga has pretty decent typing that give it a good chance to get in a shot or two.  It's just that tanky, borderline OHKO types have been done before, if not by Pokemon.

Giratina O offense, while notably better than before, isn't a huge deal to him in the DL oddly.  Solidifies his claim on Godlike, to be sure, but isn't a huge change in his duelling style- he's still very much about the tanking and excellent DL typing.  Skymin meanwhile learns a new move in Air Slash and Serene Grace ramps both it and Seed Flare into considerably more dangerous weapons, giving it some fairly clear DL niches not usually seen in pokemon.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #184 on: December 08, 2009, 01:22:04 AM »
Fuck Skymin in the DL. Giratina as well. "only legal in Platinum" is epically bad even by the standards of bad pokemon ranks, and those are some pretty special standards.

Basically I agree with Super on this one. As much as I am an Piplup/mechapenguin fan (which made Snowfire's comments amusing!) and Starpator fan, the game has some serious ranking issues and at the very least needs considerably more playership before we consider it.

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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #185 on: December 08, 2009, 01:25:11 AM »
Suikoden Tiekreis as the most likely ranked DS RPG? Tactics already has struggled enough, and doesn't have all the other issues that Tiekreis has had. I'd be absolutely shocked to see Tiekreis before Poke: DP, DQ 5, and VP:CoTP to name a few.

*shrugs* I just think that SuiTier is in an interesting place. By the time the DL actually ranks a DS RPG, SuiTier will probably be at the height of its growth, and having the Suikoden name and the lack of offensive problems will probably push it over the edge.

Just my hypothesis.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #186 on: December 08, 2009, 01:29:05 AM »
To chime in on Tierkries' potential, if I had both Suiko Tactics and Tier available to me I would play the latter because, well, honestly? Lack of S4 association. (I don't have Tier available, which overcomes the gap there, but... yeah, I could see Tier surpassing Tactics in the future easily enough.)

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Cmdr_King

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #187 on: December 08, 2009, 03:19:39 AM »
Tierkreis, along with DQV and to a lesser extent SO1, feel like games where all we can really do is wait and see.  They've come out recently enough that their having poor numbers right now doesn't feel like an indication that people don't want to play them, just that they've been playing other things and haven't got around to them.  So at this point they could easily fade to obscurity, or slowly pick up players during the dry seasons in releases and in a year or so we might be giving them serious consideration.

Quote
Fuck Skymin in the DL. Giratina as well. "only legal in Platinum" is epically bad even by the standards of bad pokemon ranks, and those are some pretty special standards.

*raises eyebrow* Who suggested ranking Shaymin?  I just said that Skymin is a more interesting dueller than the standard ranking set from Gen 4, which is hard to argue against at the dueller performance level.  That it's unique to one version even before the crazy issues of "find obscure item" and "PROMO?!!?!" just means it likely fails at draw, presupposing the majority of pokemon voters go by in-game experience rather than stat topics/Smogon/etc.

Mind, if you wanted to argue that Platinum is the minority version in Gen 4 and thusly we should exclude Giratina (neatly sidestepping Origin Formme hype), that seems like a pretty fair argument.  What other issues does Gen 4 have beyond lack of interest though?  I'm not going to say that it could stand as a rank now, but it isn't so terribly far off that biting the heads off people for suggesting it is warranted, and we certainly shouldn't just say "fuck Gen 4" and ignore it at this point.
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superaielman

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #188 on: December 08, 2009, 03:21:53 AM »
Gen 4 is so far off that it isn't worth talking about.  See my post for why, the game's barely shown any improvement in all the months I've tracked the game. Pokemon needs far more than the bare minimum to be acceptable for ranking, and DS hasn't reached that.

SO1 and DQ5 have remakes/older versions to fall back on, Tierkreis doesn't. It's also weaker than both on writers, but that I'd have to doublecheck to be sure.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 03:27:10 AM by superaielman »
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Cmdr_King

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #189 on: December 08, 2009, 03:33:50 AM »
*shrug* I see 19/29 confirmed players here in this topic.  If we suppose that none of the regulars who didn't respond didn't play the game, that's still half.  We've frankly ranked on less.  While I fully agree that, being Pokémon, it needs to go above and beyond, that's not an inconsiderable number of players.

Put another way, there are enough players that the game definitely isn't going away, and you do them a disservice to say it should.  But maybe I'm just too much of a hippy.
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #190 on: December 08, 2009, 03:55:32 AM »
*shrugs* I'm still on the "want to play DPP, but can't yet" list, so I know there's at least a little room for growth.

superaielman

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #191 on: December 08, 2009, 03:56:50 AM »
This

Quote
Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum (Nintendo DS, 6/17 writers)

Means it isn't worth any consideration. Writers are the hardcore voters/core of the site, and if you fail there you need to be excellent everywhere else. DS isn't excellent in any one area, and well pokemon. I will be stunned if any of it sniffs the site in the next year, and it does not deserve to until it gets up to snuff.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 12:31:49 PM by superaielman »
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

alanna82

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #192 on: December 16, 2009, 11:19:07 PM »
Played: (will support all these ideas if viable)
Kingdom Hearts
Pokemon Diamond
Radiata Stories
Suikoden Tactics
Mana Khemia 2
Dragon quest 5
FE: raidant dawn
Star Ocean First departure
La Pucelle Tactics

Will never play:
Xenosaga 3

Will possibly play
1. Wild Arms XF
2. Phantom Brave

What is this game, Ive never heard of it?
Soul nomad and the world eaters

Also have played:
Nostaligia
Valkyrie profile covenant of the plume
Rhapsody DS
Started playing the Persona 1 remake, but the dungeons gave me headaches.
Suikoden Tierkries (I didnt finish it, but I keep thinking I should and I will if it is ranked)
Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon (on my third playthrough right now)

« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 11:44:29 PM by alanna82 »

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #193 on: December 16, 2009, 11:45:54 PM »
What is this game?
Soul nomad and the world eaters

Best writing in a video game since Shadow Hearts, at least.

Less fanboy answer: It's a Squad-based Tactical RPG in the same vein as Ogre Battle, but with a Nippon-Ichi flair. Not as grindy as other N1 titles, though the option to do so is of course there. It's got a more serious tone than anything else N1 has done, and overall feels a like a different experience than something like Disgaea. It has a branching side story aftergame of sorts, affectionately called the Demon Path that has some really visceral moments in it to top off an already-strong main game.

The game has a 'silent main', but not really. S/he's got a pretty solidly formed personality, just no voice actor. The game just did a lot of things well and has a fairly solid experimental gameplay system that helps it to stand out. I highly recommend it, though of course, not everyone is sure to like it.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #194 on: December 16, 2009, 11:47:59 PM »
What is this game?
Soul nomad and the world eaters

Best writing in a video game since Shadow Hearts, at least.

If you're talking about SH1, forgive me if I uncontrollably ram a very tiny broken bottle into your eyes. Soul Nomad does not deserve to be lumped as anything nearing SH1-quality writing.

EDIT: Ahem. This is just to say that SN writing is actually surprisingly strong, and comparing it to the hopelessly inconsistent, immature, indecisive mess that is SH1's writing is a disservice.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 11:53:35 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

alanna82

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #195 on: December 16, 2009, 11:58:37 PM »
I do not like games that are similar to Ogre battle, so add that one as a will not play. (I've tried playing Ogre battle twice, I failed miserably both times. ) Thanks for the quick response!

As a side note, with my vote Pokemon DPP now has 20/30 votes! I'd say thats easily good enough to rank. No Platinum only or aftergame and stuff like that though.

Also, I'm planning on getting either an Xbox 360 or a Playstation 3 with my christmas money for Final Fantasy 13. Any ideas of RPG's that have even a chance of getting ranked on those? I want some insight as to which one to buy. Leaning Xbox right now, but still a bit alarmed with the red ring of death.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #196 on: December 17, 2009, 12:11:18 AM »
Aww. That's really a shame. It's different enough from Ogre Battle that you might really enjoy it. What about OB turned you off? It's quite possible that Soul Nomad doesn't feature it.


Quote
If you're talking about SH1, forgive me if I uncontrollably ram a very tiny broken bottle into your eyes.

Are you going to ram a single bottle in both eyes, or are you leaning more towards a multiple-bottle approach?

While I found SH1's humor enjoyable (and I liked that SH1 still had some of the 'creepy' factor from Koudelka), I was more specifically referring to SH2, though I enjoy how both stories (and Koudelka) fit together enough to just refer to it as 'Shadow Hearts'. Sorry for the confusion.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 12:15:08 AM by DjinnAndTonic »

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #197 on: December 17, 2009, 12:28:08 AM »
Quote
Also, I'm planning on getting either an Xbox 360 or a Playstation 3 with my christmas money for Final Fantasy 13. Any ideas of RPG's that have even a chance of getting ranked on those? I want some insight as to which one to buy. Leaning Xbox right now, but still a bit alarmed with the red ring of death.

Tales of Vesperia. Blue Dragon. Bioshock. Fallout 3? (Blue Dragon and Bioshock aren't getting ranked, and ToV isn't likely, but those are good games). FO3 has gotten a lot of hype but I haven't played it myself.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #198 on: December 17, 2009, 12:30:12 AM »
Aww. That's really a shame. It's different enough from Ogre Battle that you might really enjoy it. What about OB turned you off? It's quite possible that Soul Nomad doesn't feature it.


Quote
If you're talking about SH1, forgive me if I uncontrollably ram a very tiny broken bottle into your eyes.

Are you going to ram a single bottle in both eyes, or are you leaning more towards a multiple-bottle approach?

While I found SH1's humor enjoyable (and I liked that SH1 still had some of the 'creepy' factor from Koudelka), I was more specifically referring to SH2, though I enjoy how both stories (and Koudelka) fit together enough to just refer to it as 'Shadow Hearts'. Sorry for the confusion.


I can't really say anything about a game I didn't play (SH2), but Koudelka -did- have writing as its biggest strength (one of the only, even >_>).
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

alanna82

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Re: DL Playership/Ranking Drive 2009
« Reply #199 on: December 17, 2009, 12:30:28 AM »
I just dont have the focus to play Real time strategy games. It is difficult for me to keep track of everything at once. I like to take my time making decisons and stuff. Nothing is "wrong" with Ogre Battle, I just cannot focus on multiple battles at once.

Its like how my friend cannot play even simple action RPG's because of her difficulty with the battles.

Yes, Shadow hearts 2 did have amazing writing.