imageRegister

Author Topic: Henchmen Anonymafia - GAME OVER - SCUM WIN  (Read 37796 times)

Tohsaka Rin

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 3 LYLO
« Reply #275 on: December 19, 2009, 06:08:50 PM »
Also, Gumshoe should really be the one defending himself on this, but #236's arguments are...  I don't want to say wrong, it's a good point, but there are legitimately towny reasons to post your roleclaim "first" in such a case, too, so it's not a conclusive point.  Or Gumshoe might have just gotten impatient.  If you're around, detective, you probably should respond to this.

While possible, the fact that Post 244 had no response or explanation whatsoever - just a reaffirmation that he's a Watcher - is arguably more telling than the arguments themselves.

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 3 LYLO
« Reply #276 on: December 19, 2009, 06:15:46 PM »
Gilgamesh is guaranteed scum.

The godfather case should be completely ignored on balance concerns, especially given the confirmation that we have either a cop or a watcher, not both. Do not use it for 'what if's.

Maya Kumashiro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 3 LYLO
« Reply #277 on: December 19, 2009, 06:27:48 PM »
(Smithers: I agree that such a setup would be scum-slanted but not sure we can rule it out?  I hope you're right, at least, it'd make things infinitely easier...)

Act III.  Scene III.

Rosencrantz
Man, I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere.  Where am I?  Feels like I've been wandering in darkness this entire Act, absent.  Huh...  that sign says "entering Lea Monde."  Gulidenstern?  Guildenstern?

Guildenstern
We have been waiting for you, Sydney.

Rosencrantz
Sydney?  Who?

Guildenstern
What we need is a Revolution. A fresh wind to blow away the disease of the land. For our realm is SICK. It suffurates with profiteers! Fawning merchants licking the boots of the nobility! They do nothing and blame others for their failure; they steal men's dreams and twist them to nightmares... We must cleanse this corruption. There must be strong, unwavering justice. And there must be fear to enforce that justice.

Rosencrantz
Are you feeling okay, Guild?

(Romeo) Guildenstern
The world does not want a saviour. These wretches leading lives of misery do not need salvation. The rotting branch must be pruned.  I will hew my retribution from your flesh.  Perhaps I cannot kill you, actor. But I shall have your Blood-Sin as my trophy!  With it, I shall have power beyond imagining!

Rosencrantz
You're in an odd mood.  Can the Blood-Sin be shaped into, say, a mystical hammer?  I think there's a heretic we need to cleanse.  Plus we can steal his swords.

---
Meanwhile, in England...

Guildenstern
Now where did Rosencrantz get to?  Well, best to deliver my alternate letter first, the one that says "please kill the twelve-sworded man."

##VOTE Gilgamesh

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 3 LYLO
« Reply #278 on: December 19, 2009, 07:29:31 PM »
"Hey, that Guy Gilgamesh, I know I saw him doing something, but I'm sure it was nothing suspicious, Pal."

"You fool, I am no one's Pal!  And that is how I know you are no detective, but a scum!" Gilgamesh cried in return.

"W-what?!  No way I'm Scum, Pal!  That means...  you must be the scum!"

Smither's dithered, with a cry of "Well... they both kind made sense..."

Fortunately, their decision was made for them when a cackling mysterious figure...  flew?  through the room, taking out Gilgamesh and leaving behind a few of his possessions and a very confused Rosencrantz.  When they saw what had been scattered from Gilgamesh, they paled.  He had on him Smither's Malibu Stacy Club President Card!  Clearly no vanilla hench like he claimed, but...

Gilgamesh SCUM ROLEBLOCKER had been Vagranted

Gumshoe (1): Gilgamesh, Smithers, Axem Rangers
Gilgamesh (4): Gumshoe, Whim, Axem Rangers, Guildenstern
24 hours for night actions, please get them in.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 04:14:49 AM by Excal »

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 3 LYLO
« Reply #279 on: December 20, 2009, 04:11:28 AM »
And so the henches went to bed, happy and joyful in their having found scum for the first time.  In the knowledge that they had somewhere to start their search.  And indeed, the next morning the right number of people came, but not the right people, as the last to arrive was a badly wounded Axem Black.

"Scumteam is..." he managed to get out before he keeled over, dead.  A further examination of the Axem's room showed the five man band was entirely gone, and their knowledge died with them.

Axem Rangers TOWN COP have been killed.

Day 4 now begins, and is still LYLO.

Maya Kumashiro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 3 LYLO
« Reply #280 on: December 20, 2009, 04:58:56 AM »
Interesting.  Scum did decide to solve part of our dilemma for us.  Do we just quick-lynch Gumshoe now?  Guess we should at least let him tell us what his "investigation" was...  though I suppose it is vaguely possible that Smithers-Gilgamesh-OJ was the scumteam, and Oddjob wasn't around to hammer Gumshoe.  Hrmm.

Speaking of said possibility.  Smithers, can you expand on why you think the existence of a Godfather is beyond the pale?  That doesn't seem out of the question at all.  Your vehemence on that is strange.  (I'd add that in the unusual event of Gumshoe being town, that amount of town power makes a Godfather pretty plausible.)  I'm also not sure what to make of your conviction on Day 2 and Day 3 that you would surely be the night kill.  (Don't get me wrong, I'm still leaning toward your towniness, but...)

I'm still favoring the Gumshoe lynch, likely, but we'll have to see.  Assuming Gumshoe is in fact scum, then that leaves either Whim or a Godfather as the remaining scum.

Chiaki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 3 LYLO
« Reply #281 on: December 20, 2009, 07:10:52 AM »
To Smithers (And Gumshoe, I guess), what do you think the chances are of a Whim/Guildenstern team right now? Why/why not?

Maya Kumashiro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #282 on: December 20, 2009, 08:58:19 AM »
Also doing a sleepy re-read.  On second thought feel safer about Smithers' logic in post #264.  If Gumshoe was town but Smithers were scum, Smithers could have saved his extended thoughts and unvote for later, or at least wait for (now known town Axem) to unvote while hoping for Whim to come online and finish the scumhammer.  Basically scum-Smithers would have taken a terrible risk when he likely had the game right there.  So...  while I can't COMPLETELY rule it out, feeling better about Gilgamesh-Smithers-Whim not being a viable scumteam.  (And if Gilgamesh-Oddjob-Whim was the scumteam, then that was MASSIVE FAIL from the scum to not get online when two (!) townie on townie votes were sitting there for the taking - we should have lost already, and if that freakish case is true we just lose later anyway due to rightly ruling it out.  Also I think Smithers claimed Whim was online and didn't scumhammer, and I just assumed a truthful town-Smithers for that case, so yeah, no, that case is stupid.)

I'm still not entirely sure who scum #3 is, but Gumshoe is looking really really guilty.

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #283 on: December 20, 2009, 09:56:55 AM »
Gumshoe is guaranteed scum. I don't even want to hear him speak today, his lynch should be just agreed on and we can get on discussing the necessities of day 5 now.

Myself and Oddjob are guaranteed town unless you can believe in a godfather in an 8:3 set up with fairly weak town powers (spoilers: you really, really shouldn't even consider it).

The only question left in the game is Guildenstern vs Whim, which is the irritation, because I knew fine well it would be better for us if the cop was still alive and was trying all I could to polish my townie badge to get the kill on me.

What I want us to do before hammering Gumshoe is to read through Guildenstern's and Whim's posts, and to read through Gilgamesh's and Gumshoe's posts to see if they make more sense as a {Gilgamesh, Gumshoe, Guildenstern} team or a {Gilgamesh, Gumshoe, Whim} team. Today is trivial, but I want to make sure we get it right tomorrow as well.


Also, thanks for all your work, Axem, and I'm glad I was able to swallow my pride and trust you in the end. See you on the other side.

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #284 on: December 20, 2009, 10:12:14 AM »
Just in case people haven't been following all of my blather, I'll re-explain why Gumshoe is guaranteed scum.

As of #243 there was the trio of Gilgamesh, Axem and myself on Gumshoe. The game did not end. Whim and Guildenstern were on in the window of three votes being up (#240 and #249). Guildenstern posts but Whim doesn't, but I'm sure Whim can confirm her own silent presence if you want. The game still does not end, leaving only Oddjob with the potential of scumhammering.

This means that if Gumshoe is town, then the scum team has to be three out of {Gilgamesh, Axem, Smithers, Oddjob}. However, we now have the truthful cop flip from Axem, and even if you can't rule out the godfather possibility, it rules out at least one more of Smithers/Oddjob. Thus townGumshoe would require at least one of Guildenstern and Whim to be scum, but not taking the opportunity to scumhammer and win. Once I can slap the godfather idea out of your head it implies that both Guildenstern and Whim to be scum and pointedly not taking the win.

So no, townGumshoe is absolutely out of the question. He is guaranteed scum and we should definitely be finishing this day with his lynch.


(Oddjob: to knock your personal theory down directly, #246 is sufficient - that would be a scumGuildenstern posting and not lynching Gumshoe to win for the team. It just isn't possible)

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #285 on: December 20, 2009, 10:28:48 AM »
To clarify: though I want to slap the godfather idea out of people's heads, and in doing so this makes the townGumshoe logic fail even harder, townGumshoe fails even supposing that the third scum is a godfather.

Also, if we were to suppose one of myself or Oddjob to be a godfather, scum really should have killed the other one last night as they would have had nothing to worry about from the cop investigating Guildenstern or Whim. But I mean that as a very side point compared to the logic that should damn well already have crossed out the possibility.

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #286 on: December 20, 2009, 10:44:34 AM »
In any case (to continue yet another bloody [I gave up pretending to even vaguely hide my identity a few days back] combo - I can't seem to settle all of my thoughts in the same place at the same time at the moment), without additional support from a re-read of the two potential teams, I'm pretty confident that it's scumGuildenstern and townWhim.

What strikes me most is remembering Axem's post at #236, where part of the theorizing around the weirdness of Gumshoe and Gilgamesh's play was to be prepared for any possible input from a theoretical power role Whim. Had she been their third team member then they could have claimed something far neater than that.

The second thing to being itself to my attention is my previous re-read on Gilgamesh, which showed him attacking Guildenstern and Gumshoe practically non-stop. I was concerned at the time that maybe he was just pushing two town trains, but with a now confirmed scumGumshoe what this very much looks like is bussing overload with the intention of looking absolutely spotless should the plan otherwise fall apart.

When I then take into account that behind the tiff I was having with Axem on day two that Guildenstern and Gumshoe were already my top votes otherwise and hence take into account Guildenstern's already incredibly dubious play then I think I'm already rather heavily in the G Team camp. I was pondering voting for him now instead of Gumshoe so I could be a more direct part of the victory, but that's just kind of daft. We should still get rid of scumshoe first.


Oh, and the only reason I don't have a vote on Gumshoe right now is that I'd at least like to hear from everyone (except Gumshoe) and work out day five before we do this.

Margaret Houlihan

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #287 on: December 20, 2009, 10:49:45 AM »
And since scum Gumshoe means that the town just had a Cop, Doc, and Ghostwriter, it's very unlikely that scum would be given a Godfather against that in an 8:3 game.  Objectively speaking, that confirms Oddjob and Smithers as town, narrowing the choice to Whim vs. Guildenstern as the only lynch that's up for grabs.

I'm not sure that I see the point in lynching Gumshoe today.  The last scum would just want to kill whichever of Oddjob and Smithers he figures as more likely to vote him.  I'd rather not give scum the initiative there.  Leaving the choice 'till tomorrow, to be made by the survivor, opens the possibility of a last-moment change of heart.  I think that Smithers and Oddjob should come to an agreement and then place their votes together against one of the remaining candidates, leaving the other to hammer.

Cut by another Smithers post.  Well, I'll hammer Gumshoe instead if you decide to go that route, but I still think it'd be better to settle it today with both you and Oddjob still here.

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #288 on: December 20, 2009, 10:59:23 AM »
Well, it's another matter of pride, Whim, which as we've seen has caused me nothing but trouble this game. In this case it's basically a silly padding of 'I'd rather lose with one scum left alive than two', which I think is effectively meaningless at the best of times but certainly when one is confirmed and it's the same choice of two for remaining one regardless.

So yes, I think you're right. Let's do it today with more townie heads together and leave Gumshoe as the guaranteed lynch tomorrow should we be right. Typical paranoia running in that you're saying that while you have my attention set so strongly against Guildenstern, but objectively I think it's true regardless of your alignment.

In which case I'll make a re-read through the thread to be as sure as possible of my choice, before inevitably returning to vote for Guildenstern. No doubt you want to put your vote down now since it's not really a choice for you, but I'll wait on for Oddjob so that he at least gets a say here (if I rush and am wrong, then we lose without him getting a look in, which has got to be annoying for him).

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #289 on: December 20, 2009, 12:06:03 PM »
On re-reading Gumshoe (I should point out that major credit should be going to Ard for getting on his case quite so early, which is presumably a major part of what drew NK1):

Early day one play groups Guildenstern and Whim together. This connects with Gilgamesh's final post at #227, which is clearly their final toss of the dice in hoping that we won't be able to differentiate between the two of them. I'm a little flummoxed by his vote on Guildenstern at #54, but by the time it's removed at #87 there was never any real threat of it taking hold (Oddjob at #81 is the only one in the frame who says anything even remotely implying that a vote might be heading towards Guildenstern).

Come day two and suddenly (#129) Guildenstern is forgotten and Whim's his second spot after his continued push for Oddjob, and at #160 he downplays the relevance of my case on Guildenstern (in #157), and okay, I think that's pretty damning in itself, actually. This Guildenstern love continues in #167, and #173 again pushes Whim over Guildenstern.

#175 actually weirded me out at the time, but I didn't comment on it at the time and since forgotten it. He phrases the current vote structure as two conflicts of Gumshoe versus Oddjob and Axem versus Smithers, and kind of pushes for one scum from each pair. Sure, whatever. What's important here is that there was a third direct conflict - Gilgamesh versus Guildenstern - that he didn't draw attention to. Unfortunately I can't press this as strongly as I'd like as it could simply be that he was keeping the attention off of Gilgamesh, but I can't help but think the importance was to keep it off a scum pair.

This leaves #196 - The Final Wurgle - in which he professes an intent to vote for Whim, but then moves to the weasels on the Axems' behest, in which I have to decide just how genuine all of those internal ninja edits are.

And man, even in day three he professes the likely scum team as 'Whim/Guild/Gilga' (#216), the emphasis being on Whim. Incredibly minor point, but it's the minor things that really make the glue for me after the big things have made the structure relatively sound.

So yeah, I'm not sure I even need to bother reading up on Guildenstern and oldWhim. I remember well enough how badly/scummily Guildenstern had been playing, and Gumshoe/Guildenstern buddy buddy with Gilgamesh there as the back up bussing plan just looks so damn clear with that.

I am now going to re-read Guildenstern and oldWhim while waiting for Oddjob to pop his head in again, but I'm announcing at this point my clear intent to vote for Guildenstern.

Chiaki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #290 on: December 20, 2009, 12:12:57 PM »
I'm happy with Guild/Gumshoe, but I want to be the one to hammer Gumshoe  8-)

There's not really much I can say, you've covered all the bases Smithers. The only thing left out is that Gumshoe has been trying to get me lynched ever since I started voting for him, which is way past scumbus. Axem confirming me as town (save for GF) also heavily weighs down on him.

I'd still tentatively say hammer Gumshoe today, but I'm a cautious type.

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #291 on: December 20, 2009, 12:22:50 PM »
I should point out that if you take the internal ninja edits at #196 to be genuine, then he was planning on putting the crucial vote into Whim, which all but totally confirms townWhim in this set up. If it was all measured then it could just be set up to look that way, hence the wurgle. My conclusion is that it is completely genuine, as time was seriously pressed and it's not like scum have any more ability than town to post fast.

So if you're happy with the plan, then I say we should go ahead and lynch Guildenstern right now.

Hilariously, the biggest thorn in the plan is your desire to hammer Gumshoe, which I'm more than happy to grant you, but see you getting NKed in the meantime for, given that if we're not wrong on Guildenstern then Gumshoe is guaranteed, so it's not like sole remaining scum Gumshoe has anything better to do.

That said, I'd still rather go with Guildenstern now to make it crystal clear, as per Whim's concerns at #287 as even though Whim herself is the one we're being cautious of otherwise the logic holds true.

Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #292 on: December 20, 2009, 12:32:02 PM »
I've just had a quick re-read of Guildenstern and oldWhim. I have a few problems with oldWhim, principally the ordering muck up at #68, but it's just nothing compared to the constantly bad behaviour from Guildenstern, that I dealt with at the time and can't be bothered to repeat here.

At a personal level Guildenstern looks much worse than Whim. On a scumteam level Guildenstern is even further ahead.

I'm as confident as I'm ever going to be at this point in:

##VOTE: Guildenstern

Chiaki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #293 on: December 20, 2009, 12:36:10 PM »
Right then, let's get this show on the road.

##VOTE: Guildenstern

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - Day 4 LYLO
« Reply #294 on: December 20, 2009, 01:33:18 PM »
Well...  I could wait, but it doesn't seem like there's any point.  So...

Smithers let out a fierce cry "It was you!  You're the one who killed Mr. Burns!" pointing a furious finger at the local dane.  Before he could do so much as issue a cry, a hat struck home, killing both him and his faithful companion Rosencrantz.  With that, Smithers and Oddjob congratulated themselves on a job well done, as Whim rushed forward.

"Oh, Smithers-san!  You were so reliable!  I wish to reward you!" she cried as she gave him a hug.

"Erk...  Whim...  this hug is a little tight...  and a little high..." Smithers gasped.

"Of course, it's Miss Lily's special," Whim said, twisted glee pulling on her lips.  "No one knows it like me!"

Oddjob, hat in hand was ready to get the crazed mana off of Smithers, but didn't get a chance.  As with a "Can't let you do that, pal." he shot the hench dead.

And soon, that's all that was left.

"Y'know.  Feels kinda wierd, pal.  Figger I oughta done something on the last day to help us win," Gumshoe said, looking at the aftermath.

"No, Detective-san!  We don't do things anymore.  Others do things for us!"

"Hey, that's right!  M... maybe I'll even get someone to make my noodles for me!"

"That's the spirit!" Whim cheerfully replied, as the two of them left the scene.


Guildenstern Vanilla Town was lynched.
Smithers Vanilla Town was given Lily's special handshake.
Oddjob Vanilla Town was shot in the back.

SCUM WINS


Bill Hellsnake

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - GAME OVER - SCUM WIN
« Reply #295 on: December 20, 2009, 01:38:06 PM »
Lame.

Tohsaka Rin

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - GAME OVER - SCUM WIN
« Reply #296 on: December 20, 2009, 04:24:34 PM »
Okay, guys, I got a guilty return on Whim and - wait, whaddaya mean the Breaker Beam is still recharging?!?

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - GAME OVER - SCUM WIN
« Reply #297 on: December 20, 2009, 04:33:32 PM »
God dammit, why didn't anyone listen to me about Gumshoe on day one. -.-

Bardiche

  • Guest
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - GAME OVER - SCUM WIN
« Reply #298 on: December 20, 2009, 04:41:33 PM »
Sorry about that. I had no clue I was going to get as busy as I was, so I had to resign. oldWhim here.

Tanaka

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 203
    • View Profile
Re: Henchmen Anonymafia - GAME OVER - SCUM WIN
« Reply #299 on: December 20, 2009, 04:46:51 PM »


Thanks a lot, pal! You kept me alive to see my next bowl of instant noodles! It was helpful to both Town and Scum to sort out Whim/Guild today instead of tomorrow, but that does mean I can live. Thanks again!